North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

wakeJD15
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:31 am

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby wakeJD15 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:43 pm

I'm really only trying to memorize word-for-word the absolutely key rules for each subject...definition of a security interest, attachment, PMSI, etc for Secured.

I know must of the minor rules when I see them and can usually come to the right conclusion, so I've just been formulating the little rules on the spot as best I can when they come up

old_soul
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby old_soul » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:45 pm

wakeJD15 wrote:I'm really only trying to memorize word-for-word the absolutely key rules for each subject...definition of a security interest, attachment, PMSI, etc for Secured.

I know must of the minor rules when I see them and can usually come to the right conclusion, so I've just been formulating the little rules on the spot as best I can when they come up


What do you use to memorize? I find that I memorize stuff word for word, and then forget four days later. :(

wakeJD15
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:31 am

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby wakeJD15 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:01 pm

^I read the rule (on the outline or my notes or wherever) and then open up a blank word document. I just type the rule over and over until I can do it no problem.

Some rules I'll only do once or twice if they're really common and I've dealt with them a lot, like the standard for summary judgment. But other rules, I'll spend 2-3 minutes just typing the rule over and over and over...

old_soul
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby old_soul » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:30 am

Any predictions?

- I'm guessing Equal Protection or Due Process for Con Law.
- UCC essay for Contracts.
- Some kind of homicide or theft for Crim.
- Equitable Distrib or Child Support for Family law.

ahduke99
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby ahduke99 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:05 pm

quick question...

Does my MBE score from South Carolina transfer over to NC for their bar? I should've asked them at my interview, but I wanted to see if anyone knew here. I scored a 133 last July when I passed the SC bar and would be thrilled if I didn't need to pass the MBE this time given I have hardly studied for it..

wakeJD15
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:31 am

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby wakeJD15 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:17 pm

Whats the plan if you genuinely don't know a rule?

On some of these essays they are asking for really specific rules that I don't even think I've seen. Is the game plan just make up a rule and hope you get lucky? Will they still give you points for your analysis if you use the wrong rule?

old_soul
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby old_soul » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:34 pm

wakeJD15 wrote:Whats the plan if you genuinely don't know a rule?

On some of these essays they are asking for really specific rules that I don't even think I've seen. Is the game plan just make up a rule and hope you get lucky? Will they still give you points for your analysis if you use the wrong rule?


Yup, plan is to make up a "credible" rule. It is *impossible* to have every rule reviewed, let alone memorized.

I just read some samples of "model" answers -- holy sh*t, they are really well-written; the rule statements are really well developed and so is the analysis! I am hoping they were 9s/10s, because there is no way I could've written like that under 30 mins. T_T

Also, I guess I'm gambling, but I am not reviewing Suretyship.

reinbowbrite
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby reinbowbrite » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:39 pm

I've got a question about non-compete clauses in NC.

On page 3 of the NC Distinctions section of the CMR for Contracts, it talks about new consideration being required when an employer asks an employee to sign a non-compete clauses after he has been employed for many years. It says nothing about consideration being required when an employee is just hired on.

On page 19 of the lecture notes for Contracts, it says that new consideration is required if employee is already working.

Mixed Subjects Question 18 is about non-compete clauses. According to the facts, the employee is on his first day of the job when he's asked to sign a non-compete agreement. In writing my practice essay, I said that no new consideration was required because it was his first day. He's not a long-time employee. However, the model answer says that a non-compete must be supported by valid consideration. The model answer also talks about how a noncompete clause has to be at least mentioned during the negotiation process --- none of this negotiation stuff is in my Barbri materials.

I'm just wondering if anyone else was surprised or caught off guard about this. Also, is it a correct statement of law that consideration is required for ANY non-compete, regardless of length of employment? TYIA.

reinbowbrite
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby reinbowbrite » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:15 pm

ncatticus wrote:That's unfortunate. And silly.

I have seen that Appalachian School of Law has old exams on its website, but I have been unable to gain access. Apparently it's only available for students or alumni?


Has anybody been able to get access to these old exams? I got an "access denied" message. Clicked button to request access several days ago, and still not able to get in.

I'd feel a whole lot better about the essay portion if I could see some actual essays and actual responses instead of the insanely perfect model answers in the Barbri book.

old_soul
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby old_soul » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:02 pm

reinbowbrite wrote:
ncatticus wrote:That's unfortunate. And silly.

I have seen that Appalachian School of Law has old exams on its website, but I have been unable to gain access. Apparently it's only available for students or alumni?


Has anybody been able to get access to these old exams? I got an "access denied" message. Clicked button to request access several days ago, and still not able to get in.

I'd feel a whole lot better about the essay portion if I could see some actual essays and actual responses instead of the insanely perfect model answers in the Barbri book.


I believe NC took them down a few years ago. I've seen some actual answers through my school -- it was intimidating, because I thought the answers were almost perfect and impressive for being cranked out in 30 mins. Those answers read like 9s to me. Beautiful rule statements, beautiful analysis.

How are you doing with the memorization? I have this horrible feeling I'll blank out and not be able to spot the issue, or remember all the elements. I'm giving myself till tomorrow to finish memorization, then the next two days to just do essays and a practice MBE half day session.

reinbowbrite
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby reinbowbrite » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:03 am

old_soul wrote:
reinbowbrite wrote:
ncatticus wrote:That's unfortunate. And silly.

I have seen that Appalachian School of Law has old exams on its website, but I have been unable to gain access. Apparently it's only available for students or alumni?


Has anybody been able to get access to these old exams? I got an "access denied" message. Clicked button to request access several days ago, and still not able to get in.

I'd feel a whole lot better about the essay portion if I could see some actual essays and actual responses instead of the insanely perfect model answers in the Barbri book.


I believe NC took them down a few years ago. I've seen some actual answers through my school -- it was intimidating, because I thought the answers were almost perfect and impressive for being cranked out in 30 mins. Those answers read like 9s to me. Beautiful rule statements, beautiful analysis.

How are you doing with the memorization? I have this horrible feeling I'll blank out and not be able to spot the issue, or remember all the elements. I'm giving myself till tomorrow to finish memorization, then the next two days to just do essays and a practice MBE half day session.


I went to school in Virginia, so I have no concept of what NC is looking for on the essays (unless you count the half-day Barbri essay exam as representative of what the grading rubric will be...but I hope that's not true, because I only "passed" 2 out of the 6 essays that day).

My memorization stinks tbh. I feel like I know a lot of the concepts and can generally talk around them, and my factual analysis is usually pretty good, but I cannot rattle off a specific, detailed rule with elements and such. I have a feeling that's what's going to sink me on the essays. :( I don't know if I can get enough rules stored in my head over these last few days to make that much of a difference. I'd have more confidence if NC released prior bar exam essay responses and I could see for myself what level of "perfection" or "minimal competence" is needed to hit the magic 7!

old_soul
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby old_soul » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:14 am

reinbowbrite wrote:
old_soul wrote:
reinbowbrite wrote:
ncatticus wrote:That's unfortunate. And silly.

I have seen that Appalachian School of Law has old exams on its website, but I have been unable to gain access. Apparently it's only available for students or alumni?


Has anybody been able to get access to these old exams? I got an "access denied" message. Clicked button to request access several days ago, and still not able to get in.

I'd feel a whole lot better about the essay portion if I could see some actual essays and actual responses instead of the insanely perfect model answers in the Barbri book.


I believe NC took them down a few years ago. I've seen some actual answers through my school -- it was intimidating, because I thought the answers were almost perfect and impressive for being cranked out in 30 mins. Those answers read like 9s to me. Beautiful rule statements, beautiful analysis.

How are you doing with the memorization? I have this horrible feeling I'll blank out and not be able to spot the issue, or remember all the elements. I'm giving myself till tomorrow to finish memorization, then the next two days to just do essays and a practice MBE half day session.


I went to school in Virginia, so I have no concept of what NC is looking for on the essays (unless you count the half-day Barbri essay exam as representative of what the grading rubric will be...but I hope that's not true, because I only "passed" 2 out of the 6 essays that day).

My memorization stinks tbh. I feel like I know a lot of the concepts and can generally talk around them, and my factual analysis is usually pretty good, but I cannot rattle off a specific, detailed rule with elements and such. I have a feeling that's what's going to sink me on the essays. :( I don't know if I can get enough rules stored in my head over these last few days to make that much of a difference. I'd have more confidence if NC released prior bar exam essay responses and I could see for myself what level of "perfection" or "minimal competence" is needed to hit the magic 7!


Sigh, well, if your MBE is median, you only need about 6.2-6.5 max per essay to be safe. (Yeah, I flunked most of the essays on the barbri exam too.) Here's how it's all calculated:

Total essay points for 12 essays x 3 + MBE = final score

Say you get a 6.2 avg on all essays and a 135 MBE, that's

74.4 (3) + 135 = 358.2 --That's way above passing.

Good luck, we are all on the same boat. Although the 7s typically get 75% of the rule statements perfect, you'll most likely rmr than you usually do in the heat of the moment.

reinbowbrite
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby reinbowbrite » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:32 pm

old_soul wrote:Sigh, well, if your MBE is median, you only need about 6.2-6.5 max per essay to be safe. (Yeah, I flunked most of the essays on the barbri exam too.) Here's how it's all calculated:

Total essay points for 12 essays x 3 + MBE = final score

Say you get a 6.2 avg on all essays and a 135 MBE, that's

74.4 (3) + 135 = 358.2 --That's way above passing.

Good luck, we are all on the same boat. Although the 7s typically get 75% of the rule statements perfect, you'll most likely rmr than you usually do in the heat of the moment.



This formula is helpful.

My Simulated MBE score was only 118, but I've been doing a lot better on the Mixed Question Sets and did well on the 21 NCBE released questions (but not so hot on the 10 Civ Pro questions). I'm hoping that with the 10-point Barbri bump people talk about plus another 10-15 point bump in scaling, that I'll be close to 140 on the MBE.

And our essays are scaled too right? So, maybe raw score on essay is a 5 but it's scaled to a 6?

old_soul
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby old_soul » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:48 pm

reinbowbrite wrote:
old_soul wrote:Sigh, well, if your MBE is median, you only need about 6.2-6.5 max per essay to be safe. (Yeah, I flunked most of the essays on the barbri exam too.) Here's how it's all calculated:

Total essay points for 12 essays x 3 + MBE = final score

Say you get a 6.2 avg on all essays and a 135 MBE, that's

74.4 (3) + 135 = 358.2 --That's way above passing.

Good luck, we are all on the same boat. Although the 7s typically get 75% of the rule statements perfect, you'll most likely rmr than you usually do in the heat of the moment.



This formula is helpful.

My Simulated MBE score was only 118, but I've been doing a lot better on the Mixed Question Sets and did well on the 21 NCBE released questions (but not so hot on the 10 Civ Pro questions). I'm hoping that with the 10-point Barbri bump people talk about plus another 10-15 point bump in scaling, that I'll be close to 140 on the MBE.

And our essays are scaled too right? So, maybe raw score on essay is a 5 but it's scaled to a 6?


Don't worry, if you do median or better on the Barbri MBE refresher, I've heard you're supposed to be safe for the MBE, enough to usually get somewhere above 130.

The truth is, most people who fail the NC bar fail because of the Essays, which is why I've been tapering away from the MBEs and focusing on essays. The most heartbreaking ones are folks who fail by a couple of points. I have no idea how the essays are individually scaled. I can't make so many assumptions, but I do think in order to be in the vicinity of a 6, you definitely have to get more than 50% of the elements right, plus a really solid analysis. NC is super competitive b/c of schools like Campbell, Wake, and UNC. The rubrics are developed based on the essays of your competitors.

reinbowbrite
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby reinbowbrite » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:10 pm

well my self-graded scores on essays have moved up from 3-4 range to mostly 5s with an occasional 6 (of course, I haven't attempted in an essay today in some of my hardest subjects), but that blasted 7 is still eluding me. :?

old_soul
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby old_soul » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:46 pm

reinbowbrite wrote:well my self-graded scores on essays have moved up from 3-4 range to mostly 5s with an occasional 6 (of course, I haven't attempted in an essay today in some of my hardest subjects), but that blasted 7 is still eluding me. :?



Are you writing them out or outlining? Yeah, it takes a lot to get to 6. Plus, NC really cares about conclusions. :/

reinbowbrite
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby reinbowbrite » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:53 pm

I'm writing out the ones in the back of the book for the Mixed Subjects because there's a model answer and a grading rubric.

My Barbri PSP has me outlining some other ones from the topic-specific sections. I pick and choose among those which ones I want to outline (usually, it's after I read the essay prompt and realize I don't know anything about that particular topic that I "choose" not to outline that one and just read the model response instead).

old_soul
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby old_soul » Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:01 pm

reinbowbrite wrote:I'm writing out the ones in the back of the book for the Mixed Subjects because there's a model answer and a grading rubric.

My Barbri PSP has me outlining some other ones from the topic-specific sections. I pick and choose among those which ones I want to outline (usually, it's after I read the essay prompt and realize I don't know anything about that particular topic that I "choose" not to outline that one and just read the model response instead).


Yeah, I do heavy outlining, not writing out any at this point. I've gotten varying scores, anywhere from 2s (gulp), to 9s and 10s. Most seem to be around 5 and 6. A lot of the times it's just tricky figuring out what counts as a point while you're outlining, so I run into stuff I wish I had included that I knew.

>_> I hate Prof Resp open ended essays.

reinbowbrite
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby reinbowbrite » Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:43 pm

I've done 14 of the 30 Mixed Subject Questions in the back of the Barbri Essay book. My average score is 5.93 (lowest - 3; highest - 9). I just don't see how I'm going to get to a 7 average on Tuesday.

old_soul
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby old_soul » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:26 pm

reinbowbrite wrote:I've done 14 of the 30 Mixed Subject Questions in the back of the Barbri Essay book. My average score is 5.93 (lowest - 3; highest - 9). I just don't see how I'm going to get to a 7 average on Tuesday.


Don't worry about it, just keep going, I have a feeling this rubric is tougher than it's going to be on the actual bar; I wish Barbri posted a percentile for every self-graded essay, it would give me a lot of relief knowing I'm in the median or I'm low.

Also, I hate how NC has decided to sneak in Civ Pro into almost everything. Yuck.

Did a MBE session, I find that I'm taking more time to the qs now since I know more law, so I actually reason through a lot of wrong answers more. Just barely finished with like 3 mins left over.

wakeJD15
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:31 am

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby wakeJD15 » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:26 pm

reinbowbrite wrote:I've done 14 of the 30 Mixed Subject Questions in the back of the Barbri Essay book. My average score is 5.93 (lowest - 3; highest - 9). I just don't see how I'm going to get to a 7 average on Tuesday.


Isn't it curved or scaled?

65% pass in NC, and I just don't see 65% of takers being able to average a straight up 7 (considering how tough the grading rubrics seems to be).

old_soul
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby old_soul » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:16 pm

wakeJD15 wrote:
reinbowbrite wrote:I've done 14 of the 30 Mixed Subject Questions in the back of the Barbri Essay book. My average score is 5.93 (lowest - 3; highest - 9). I just don't see how I'm going to get to a 7 average on Tuesday.


Isn't it curved or scaled?

65% pass in NC, and I just don't see 65% of takers being able to average a straight up 7 (considering how tough the grading rubrics seems to be).



No idea how that's done, I feel like we are at the mercy of the grader, but this is how everything is apportioned, as stated earlier:

Total essay points for 12 essays x 3 + MBE = final score

Say you get a 6.1 avg on all essays and a 135 MBE (136.2 was the natl median from Feb bar) , that's

73.2 (3) + 135 = 354.6 -----PASS.

reinbowbrite
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby reinbowbrite » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:41 pm

old_soul wrote:
wakeJD15 wrote:
Isn't it curved or scaled?

65% pass in NC, and I just don't see 65% of takers being able to average a straight up 7 (considering how tough the grading rubrics seems to be).



No idea how that's done, I feel like we are at the mercy of the grader [snip]


I hate that NC is so secretive about this stuff. Like we don't have enough stress and anxiety going on as it is...And I'm glad that I'm not the only one that thinks these grading rubrics are super strict. Let me just say, if we get a straight up, stand-alone suretyship, liens, or trust question, I'm SOL. I'd much prefer a wills question over a trust question.

Is 65% the total average, including repeat-takers?

wakeJD15
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:31 am

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby wakeJD15 » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:02 pm

^last July was 62%, including everyone

reinbowbrite
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: North Carolina Bar Exam July 2015 thread

Postby reinbowbrite » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:57 pm

I know I shouldn't be thinking this way so close to the bar, and I that I should be brimming with confidence that I can slay the beast, but just in case....

if I should pass the MBE and fail the essays, do I have to take the whole thing over again in February or just the essay part?




Return to “Bar Exam Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: esrom55 and 11 guests