July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

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unlicensedpotato
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby unlicensedpotato » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:27 pm

BVest wrote:
I don't really know more than you do from the instructions, but your understanding matches mine. As far as the second bag, I also chose a 1-gallon because our bar admission tickets don't fit in the quart size without folding them, which I was unwilling to do.


Thanks, hopefully I'll have the bags figured out tonight. Also just realized that my hotel was booked in completely the wrong location but was fortunately able to find reservations in the right spot. This thing is going to give me a heart attack.

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unlicensedpotato
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby unlicensedpotato » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:33 pm

Found 2.5 gallon bags at Target.

Neff
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Neff » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:00 pm

Oh man oh man. It would be tragically hilarious if I am denied admission because I didn't put my laptop in a 2.5 gallon zip lock bag.

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BVest
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:10 pm

Neff wrote:Oh man oh man. It would be tragically hilarious if I am denied admission because I didn't put my laptop in a 2.5 gallon zip lock bag.


I assume it's not necessary, but am not willing to take that chance. I'm also putting the box of the other 9 bags in my car in case it is an issue for others.

jamescastle
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby jamescastle » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:04 am

Somewhat random question as I cram for the P&E stuff:
Is there partial credit for these answers or are they full right or full wrong only?

Stevoman
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Stevoman » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:06 am

We can't bring a bottle of water into the exam? Seriously??

jamescastle wrote:Somewhat random question as I cram for the P&E stuff:
Is there partial credit for these answers or are they full right or full wrong only?


This is like 3 levels of hearsay on my part, but I think each answer is graded on a scale of 1-5 and the total score is normalized to the 100 points that the P&E is worth.

jamescastle
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby jamescastle » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:06 am

Did a dry run this morning to see what traffic would be like and drove by Palmer. Little confused about parking there. Just looks like a big garage so I don't know about paying or if we get a ticket and they'll stamp it for us or what. Probably we'll have to pay so bring money.

Second point: Target on Ben White has 2.5 gallon bags in case anyone wants them. No Walmart near me had them from the links posted above.

Finally: T-minus 24 hours, folks. We'll be grinding away at that MPT.

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Greenandgold
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Greenandgold » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:58 am

Stevoman wrote:We can't bring a bottle of water into the exam? Seriously??

jamescastle wrote:Somewhat random question as I cram for the P&E stuff:
Is there partial credit for these answers or are they full right or full wrong only?


This is like 3 levels of hearsay on my part, but I think each answer is graded on a scale of 1-5 and the total score is normalized to the 100 points that the P&E is worth.



This is correct. Each answer is graded on a 0-5 (sorry, no free guaranteed 1 point lol), and then added together, so you'll have a possible score of 100 on the criminal section and a possible score of 100 on the civil section. They then add your two scores together for a maximum possible score of 200. Once everyone's total score is added together they rank everyone's score and distribute it so that they have the same exact curve as the MBE.

So just like every other section, the raw score doesn't tell you much of anything. Just have to do better than about 25% of other test takers to get the 135 we're all looking for on each section.

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BVest
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:04 am

jamescastle wrote:Did a dry run this morning to see what traffic would be like and drove by Palmer. Little confused about parking there. Just looks like a big garage so I don't know about paying or if we get a ticket and they'll stamp it for us or what. Probably we'll have to pay so bring money.


I haven't been to a bar exam there, but every other event I've been to there involved paying an attendant as you enter the garage.

Oh, and according to this, probably $8. http://www.palmereventscenter.com/direc ... king_2.htm

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Devlin
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Devlin » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:10 am

Greenandgold wrote:
Stevoman wrote:We can't bring a bottle of water into the exam? Seriously??

jamescastle wrote:Somewhat random question as I cram for the P&E stuff:
Is there partial credit for these answers or are they full right or full wrong only?


This is like 3 levels of hearsay on my part, but I think each answer is graded on a scale of 1-5 and the total score is normalized to the 100 points that the P&E is worth.



This is correct. Each answer is graded on a 0-5 (sorry, no free guaranteed 1 point lol), and then added together, so you'll have a possible score of 100 on the criminal section and a possible score of 100 on the civil section. They then add your two scores together for a maximum possible score of 200. Once everyone's total score is added together they rank everyone's score and distribute it so that they have the same exact curve as the MBE.

So just like every other section, the raw score doesn't tell you much of anything. Just have to do better than about 25% of other test takers to get the 135 we're all looking for on each section.


Not sure if this question has an answer, but, is there a percentile that we need to hit to guarantee passing? For instance, if I perform better than 25% is that a guaranteed pass, 30 percentile, 40 percentile?

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Greenandgold
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Greenandgold » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:21 am

Devlin wrote:
Not sure if this question has an answer, but, is there a percentile that we need to hit to guarantee passing? For instance, if I perform better than 25% is that a guaranteed pass, 30 percentile, 40 percentile?



Last July you needed to be better than about 35% of takers to get a 135 on each section. Keep in mind, last July had the worst scores the bar exam has seen in at least a decade, so it'll likely be closer to 30% or a little bit lower if things go back to normal.

The important thing to remember is that this all really hinges on how everyone does on the MBE since that's what Texas normalizes their scores against for the other sections. They make sure that each section has the exact same average score as the MBE and the same standard deviation as the MBE. So if we do well on the MBE and the average score is higher than last summer we should be much better off.

If you want to look at what the score distribution from last summer it's here: https://www.ncbex.org/publications/statistics/mbe-statistics/

The bottom of that page also shows how the average score has changed over the years and you can see that last summer was nearly 4 points below average. Fingers crossed that was just an outlier.

jamescastle
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby jamescastle » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:26 am

Dunno remember the source for this but I think the typical bump was 17 on the MBE for February 2015 as opposed to the 15 that usually happens so I think February's must have been even harder? I don't know how the whole scaling thing they do really works because I haven't looked into it.

Neff
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Neff » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:27 am

Greenandgold wrote:
Devlin wrote:
Not sure if this question has an answer, but, is there a percentile that we need to hit to guarantee passing? For instance, if I perform better than 25% is that a guaranteed pass, 30 percentile, 40 percentile?



Last July you needed to be better than about 35% of takers to get a 135 on each section. Keep in mind, last July had the worst scores the bar exam has seen in at least a decade, so it'll likely be closer to 30% or a little bit lower if things go back to normal.

The important thing to remember is that this all really hinges on how everyone does on the MBE since that's what Texas normalizes their scores against for the other sections. They make sure that each section has the exact same average score as the MBE and the same standard deviation as the MBE. So if we do well on the MBE and the average score is higher than last summer we should be much better off.

If you want to look at what the score distribution from last summer it's here: https://www.ncbex.org/publications/statistics/mbe-statistics/

The bottom of that page also shows how the average score has changed over the years and you can see that last summer was nearly 4 points below average. Fingers crossed that was just an outlier.


You can also look at your school's passage rate (assuming you go to an in-state school): http://www.ble.state.tx.us/pdfs/Statistics/2014july.pdf

At UT/Baylor/SMU/UH/South Texas, you just need to beat out (at most) the bottom 15% of your class.

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Greenandgold
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Greenandgold » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:31 am

Neff wrote:
Greenandgold wrote:
Devlin wrote:
Not sure if this question has an answer, but, is there a percentile that we need to hit to guarantee passing? For instance, if I perform better than 25% is that a guaranteed pass, 30 percentile, 40 percentile?



Last July you needed to be better than about 35% of takers to get a 135 on each section. Keep in mind, last July had the worst scores the bar exam has seen in at least a decade, so it'll likely be closer to 30% or a little bit lower if things go back to normal.

The important thing to remember is that this all really hinges on how everyone does on the MBE since that's what Texas normalizes their scores against for the other sections. They make sure that each section has the exact same average score as the MBE and the same standard deviation as the MBE. So if we do well on the MBE and the average score is higher than last summer we should be much better off.

If you want to look at what the score distribution from last summer it's here: https://www.ncbex.org/publications/statistics/mbe-statistics/

The bottom of that page also shows how the average score has changed over the years and you can see that last summer was nearly 4 points below average. Fingers crossed that was just an outlier.


You can also look at your school's passage rate (assuming you go to an in-state school): http://www.ble.state.tx.us/pdfs/Statistics/2014july.pdf

At UT/Baylor/SMU/UH/South Texas, you just need to beat out (at most) the bottom 15% of your class.



As an out-of-stater I avoid looking at that page :P

But it does bring up a good point in that, even though you needed to perform better than 35% of test takers to get a 135 on each section last summer, the passage rate was still around 72%. Even if you end up with a 130 on 1 or 2 sections, you'll likely crush others because that's where you spent the majority of your time studying.

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BVest
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:36 am

jamescastle wrote:Dunno remember the source for this but I think the typical bump was 17 on the MBE for February 2015 as opposed to the 15 that usually happens so I think February's must have been even harder? I don't know how the whole scaling thing they do really works because I haven't looked into it.


It's not linear like that. And it varies from exam to exam. Here's a calculator that gives you a good range based on different raw scores out of 190.

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BVest
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:40 am

For a little confidence booster, as we all know, the passing score is 675. However, if you score 670-674, your essays (and maybe your proc/evid exam) go to automatic re-read by the head readers for each of the subjects. On re-read, the examiner can increase your original score on the question but cannot decrease your score on any question. The result is that every score goes up on re-read without fail and virtually every re-read candidate ends up above 675 (for the years that I saw reported, every single re-read candidate passed).

Therefore, the de facto mark to pass in Texas is 670.

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Devlin
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Devlin » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:55 pm

So I'm guessing that Texas is not an "auto pass" if you do well on the MBE like some other states that people claim?

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jwe-houston
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby jwe-houston » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:58 pm

Devlin wrote:So I'm guessing that Texas is not an "auto pass" if you do well on the MBE like some other states that people claim?


hahahaha....no. MBE = 40%. Essay = 40%. MPT = 10%. P-E = 10%. On a 1000 point scale.

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unlicensedpotato
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby unlicensedpotato » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:07 pm

jwe-houston wrote:
Devlin wrote:So I'm guessing that Texas is not an "auto pass" if you do well on the MBE like some other states that people claim?


hahahaha....no. MBE = 40%. Essay = 40%. MPT = 10%. P-E = 10%. On a 1000 point scale.


I don't really understand your response. It isn't as much of an autopass as states where it's 50%. But it's a total points exam and if you hit 160 raw on the MBE there's no way you fail.

Neff
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Neff » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:48 pm

If you do above average on MBE, the effort it would take to fuck up essays enough to fail is mind-boggling. You'd have to fail the majority of essays for that to happen.

Litigatrix
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Litigatrix » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:51 pm

Hello everyone. Summer-long lurker here.

1. Has anyone prepared for the MPT by doing something other than skimming past exams? I did 1 practice, and let it go. I've been in practice in California for 10+ years (can't waive in due to a brief hiatus to care for an aging relative) and feel like I can wing it enough.

2. The rules about what we can/can't bring into the exam rooms are bullshit. I have my 2.5g bag for my MacBook Air, my power cord, my extension cord. But I can't bring a goddamn water bottle in the room? We can be trusted to possibly defend lives, but not have a closed water bottle on the floor or, gasp, a watch?

3. I'm taking the exam at Palmer. I also did a drive-by (well, a bike-by) this morning. Any intel on the procedures re: leaving bags with contraband (phone, notes, snacks) outside the exam rooms? When I took the CA bar at a convention center, we had a similar "secured zone," but could leave backpacks outside the room and under the watchful eye of hallway proctors.

I wish everyone the best of luck tomorrow. May we all remember the rules for denying bail and entering guilty pleas!

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Devlin
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Devlin » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:55 pm

I have only done one MPT and it was a memo. I plan on looking through non memo MPTs for a few hours today. Hopefully this does not bite me in the ass but I know how to read, analyze, and write.

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BVest
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:03 pm

Devlin wrote:I have only done one MPT and it was a memo. I plan on looking through non memo MPTs for a few hours today. Hopefully this does not bite me in the ass but I know how to read, analyze, and write.


I've done two - a memo and a brief. But I feel the same way (plus had to write tons of memos and briefs for jobs, clinic, and advanced writing courses). I'll probably look though answers to see what other formats have popped up and their general structure.

For now I'm doing P/E (was doing civil, but since I just got 19/20 on the last one I did, I'll now switch to criminal, where my knowledge is far less complete).

ladylawyer1221
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby ladylawyer1221 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:26 pm

Does anyone know the "safe amount" of P&E to get correct? I know it's all relative to the other portions of the test... but as long as we can get 15/20 correct, that's good -- right?

Neff
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Re: July 2015 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Neff » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:39 pm

ladylawyer1221 wrote:Does anyone know the "safe amount" of P&E to get correct? I know it's all relative to the other portions of the test... but as long as we can get 15/20 correct, that's good -- right?


You can get 0/20 and still pass if you do well on the other sections.

But seriously, if you look at the BLE comments on the previous tests, you'll see what most other people got right. For a lot of them, it ain't pretty.




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