NY July 2015 Support Group

xlawschoolhopefulx
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Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:29 pm

Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby xlawschoolhopefulx » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:06 pm

toplawnerd wrote:
sd5289 wrote:
marthac66 wrote:Do we really need to know criminal procedure distinctions or could you just apply MBE knowledge for them? There is just way too many degrees


I think the main big differences we should try to know for Crim Pro are:

- four-level analysis re. police encounters with civilians (right to inquire, reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot, reasonable suspicion that this person has committed or is about to commit a crime, PC to believe this person has committed a crime and thus arrest)
- car search exceptions, namely once a person is out of the car, the police need PC to search the passenger compartment for evidence of the crime or weapons
- in a Terry stop, police can only seize what they reasonably believe is a weapon (cannot if they believe it's contraband)
- self defense and alibi are NOT affirmative defenses, and thus prosecution must disprove them beyond a reasonable doubt; everything else is and affirmative defense (e.g. duress, insanity, etc) and D must prove by a preponderance of the evidence.
- NY recognizes "indelible right to counsel," and once attached, police cannot question and D cannot waive without the attorney present



Correct me if I'm wrong, but alibi is not an affirmative defense for MBE or for New York. Self defense/justification is an ordinary defense in NY but an affirmative defense in MBE.


You're right. According to my notes, defenses (i.e. must be disproved by prosecution BRD) are alibi and justification (self-defense in NY). Affirmative defenses (must be proved by defendant by a preponderance of the evidence) are EED for murder to manslaughter, insanity, and entrapment.

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sd5289
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby sd5289 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:10 pm

xlawschoolhopefulx wrote:
toplawnerd wrote:
sd5289 wrote:
marthac66 wrote:Do we really need to know criminal procedure distinctions or could you just apply MBE knowledge for them? There is just way too many degrees


I think the main big differences we should try to know for Crim Pro are:

- four-level analysis re. police encounters with civilians (right to inquire, reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot, reasonable suspicion that this person has committed or is about to commit a crime, PC to believe this person has committed a crime and thus arrest)
- car search exceptions, namely once a person is out of the car, the police need PC to search the passenger compartment for evidence of the crime or weapons
- in a Terry stop, police can only seize what they reasonably believe is a weapon (cannot if they believe it's contraband)
- self defense and alibi are NOT affirmative defenses, and thus prosecution must disprove them beyond a reasonable doubt; everything else is and affirmative defense (e.g. duress, insanity, etc) and D must prove by a preponderance of the evidence.
- NY recognizes "indelible right to counsel," and once attached, police cannot question and D cannot waive without the attorney present



Correct me if I'm wrong, but alibi is not an affirmative defense for MBE or for New York. Self defense/justification is an ordinary defense in NY but an affirmative defense in MBE.


You're right. According to my notes, defenses (i.e. must be disproved by prosecution BRD) are alibi and justification (self-defense in NY). Affirmative defenses (must be proved by defendant by a preponderance of the evidence) are EED for murder to manslaughter, insanity, and entrapment.


Right. That's what I wrote. I'm not sure with respect to the MBE (it honestly hasn't come up on a single one of the 1500+ MBE's I did this summer), but I distinctly remember alibi as a defense on one of my graded essays, and the grader telling me that alibi is not an affirmative defense in NY.

victortsoi
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby victortsoi » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:14 pm

we get points for intelligently analyzing wrong law, right?

trustmouse83
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby trustmouse83 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:19 pm

toplawnerd wrote:
sd5289 wrote:
marthac66 wrote:Do we really need to know criminal procedure distinctions or could you just apply MBE knowledge for them? There is just way too many degrees


I think the main big differences we should try to know for Crim Pro are:

- four-level analysis re. police encounters with civilians (right to inquire, reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot, reasonable suspicion that this person has committed or is about to commit a crime, PC to believe this person has committed a crime and thus arrest)
- car search exceptions, namely once a person is out of the car, the police need PC to search the passenger compartment for evidence of the crime or weapons
- in a Terry stop, police can only seize what they reasonably believe is a weapon (cannot if they believe it's contraband)
- self defense and alibi are NOT affirmative defenses, and thus prosecution must disprove them beyond a reasonable doubt; everything else is and affirmative defense (e.g. duress, insanity, etc) and D must prove by a preponderance of the evidence.
- NY recognizes "indelible right to counsel," and once attached, police cannot question and D cannot waive without the attorney present



Correct me if I'm wrong, but alibi is not an affirmative defense for MBE or for New York. Self defense/justification is an ordinary defense in NY but an affirmative defense in MBE.


These are my notes.

Affirmative- raised by D and proved by Pre of the Ev

Ordinary- Prosecution must prove non-existence of ORDINARY defence beyond reasonable doubt, and each element to same standard.

Alibi defense- goes to elements, and prosecution must disprove beyond reasonable doubt.

Affirmative: insanity, duress, EED, entrapment.
Ordinary- Self defense.

toplawnerd
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby toplawnerd » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:32 pm

sd5289 wrote:
xlawschoolhopefulx wrote:
toplawnerd wrote:
sd5289 wrote:
marthac66 wrote:Do we really need to know criminal procedure distinctions or could you just apply MBE knowledge for them? There is just way too many degrees


I think the main big differences we should try to know for Crim Pro are:

- four-level analysis re. police encounters with civilians (right to inquire, reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot, reasonable suspicion that this person has committed or is about to commit a crime, PC to believe this person has committed a crime and thus arrest)
- car search exceptions, namely once a person is out of the car, the police need PC to search the passenger compartment for evidence of the crime or weapons
- in a Terry stop, police can only seize what they reasonably believe is a weapon (cannot if they believe it's contraband)
- self defense and alibi are NOT affirmative defenses, and thus prosecution must disprove them beyond a reasonable doubt; everything else is and affirmative defense (e.g. duress, insanity, etc) and D must prove by a preponderance of the evidence.
- NY recognizes "indelible right to counsel," and once attached, police cannot question and D cannot waive without the attorney present



Correct me if I'm wrong, but alibi is not an affirmative defense for MBE or for New York. Self defense/justification is an ordinary defense in NY but an affirmative defense in MBE.


You're right. According to my notes, defenses (i.e. must be disproved by prosecution BRD) are alibi and justification (self-defense in NY). Affirmative defenses (must be proved by defendant by a preponderance of the evidence) are EED for murder to manslaughter, insanity, and entrapment.


Right. That's what I wrote. I'm not sure with respect to the MBE (it honestly hasn't come up on a single one of the 1500+ MBE's I did this summer), but I distinctly remember alibi as a defense on one of my graded essays, and the grader telling me that alibi is not an affirmative defense in NY.


My point was that your comment about alibi is under the heading "main big differences we should know" between MBE and NY. In the case of alibi, there is no difference between MBE and NY. Conversely, there is a difference between MBE and NY wrt to self defense. That's all I meant.

redsox550
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby redsox550 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:41 pm

Can someone explain the 2 different types of separation agreement divorce things.

One is by a judge that is freely made ? What happens if the terms are breached by like cohabitation

One is coversion- and that needs a signed agreement ? Notarized?

mrs_featherbottom
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby mrs_featherbottom » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:13 pm

redsox550 wrote:Can someone explain the 2 different types of separation agreement divorce things.

One is by a judge that is freely made ? What happens if the terms are breached by like cohabitation

One is coversion- and that needs a signed agreement ? Notarized?


My very basic understanding is that a separation agreement may be converted into a divorce ( = conversion divorce) if the parties have lived apart for more than 1 year, have not materially breached the terms of the agreement and file the separation agreement with the county clerk before petitioning for divorce. Cohabitation would come into play as a defense to the conversion divorce, I think

redsox550
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby redsox550 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:20 pm

mrs_featherbottom wrote:
redsox550 wrote:Can someone explain the 2 different types of separation agreement divorce things.

One is by a judge that is freely made ? What happens if the terms are breached by like cohabitation

One is coversion- and that needs a signed agreement ? Notarized?


My very basic understanding is that a separation agreement may be converted into a divorce ( = conversion divorce) if the parties have lived apart for more than 1 year, have not materially breached the terms of the agreement and file the separation agreement with the county clerk before petitioning for divorce. Cohabitation would come into play as a defense to the conversion divorce, I think



So if Husband and wife just decide one day to live apart and go ahead and do so without any other action then after a year go to the court will that count?

mrs_featherbottom
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby mrs_featherbottom » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:24 pm

redsox550 wrote:
mrs_featherbottom wrote:
redsox550 wrote:Can someone explain the 2 different types of separation agreement divorce things.

One is by a judge that is freely made ? What happens if the terms are breached by like cohabitation

One is coversion- and that needs a signed agreement ? Notarized?


My very basic understanding is that a separation agreement may be converted into a divorce ( = conversion divorce) if the parties have lived apart for more than 1 year, have not materially breached the terms of the agreement and file the separation agreement with the county clerk before petitioning for divorce. Cohabitation would come into play as a defense to the conversion divorce, I think



So if Husband and wife just decide one day to live apart and go ahead and do so without any other action then after a year go to the court will that count?


No they have to be living apart pursuant to a written acknowledged agreement - sorry you were right about that! But in your scenario you could do no fault divorce b/c that's just breakdown of marriage for 6 months

yurista
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby yurista » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:22 pm

Any speculation on topics for this year? I figure it's pretty likely we'll see one on domestic relations. What about the other 3? Maybe a crime murder type one?

errmsg
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby errmsg » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:25 pm

yurista wrote:Any speculation on topics for this year? I figure it's pretty likely we'll see one on domestic relations. What about the other 3? Maybe a crime murder type one?


Wills, domestic relations, corp always seem to be on there in some form or another. Guessing some murder stuff too since it looks like it hasn't been on in a while, and maybe Admin..

Just hoping for no Property.

redsox550
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby redsox550 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:46 pm

errmsg wrote:
yurista wrote:Any speculation on topics for this year? I figure it's pretty likely we'll see one on domestic relations. What about the other 3? Maybe a crime murder type one?


Wills, domestic relations, corp always seem to be on there in some form or another. Guessing some murder stuff too since it looks like it hasn't been on in a while, and maybe Admin..

Just hoping for no Property.


my guess is admin will be tested since it hasn't been tested yet and next year NY is joining the uniform bar so can't test admin then. basically, it is now or never.

summeisruined
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby summeisruined » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:52 pm

Or maybe they are not gonna test admin because it will be never again on the bar except next feb

I don'tfucking want admin.

Edit :

About incorporation in a will, my notes always talk about a pourover trust.

But a codicil will do the trick as well right?

starryski
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby starryski » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:57 pm

summeisruined wrote:Or maybe they are not gonna test admin because it will be never again on the bar except next feb

I don'tfucking want admin.

Edit :

About incorporation in a will, my notes always talk about a pourover trust.

But a codicil will do the trick as well right?



and a trust created concurrently with the will or before the will

stronitsing
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby stronitsing » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:44 pm

summeisruined wrote:Or maybe they are not gonna test admin because it will be never again on the bar except next feb

I don'tfucking want admin.

Edit :

About incorporation in a will, my notes always talk about a pourover trust.

But a codicil will do the trick as well right?


Most states recognize an extrinsic document's incorporation into a will by mere reference to the document. New York doesn't, so any provisions must be in the actual will, besides pour over trusts. And yeah a codicil will do if it's validly executed - cause that's added to the actual will.

summeisruined
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby summeisruined » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:05 pm

stronitsing wrote:
summeisruined wrote:Or maybe they are not gonna test admin because it will be never again on the bar except next feb

I don'tfucking want admin.

Edit :

About incorporation in a will, my notes always talk about a pourover trust.

But a codicil will do the trick as well right?


Most states recognize an extrinsic document's incorporation into a will by mere reference to the document. New York doesn't, so any provisions must be in the actual will, besides pour over trusts. And yeah a codicil will do if it's validly executed - cause that's added to the actual will.


Thx :D

Also, if I understood correctly, there won't be NY practice AND federal civ pro tomorrow?

source: http://www.nybarexam.org/Docs/CONTENTOUTLINE.pdf

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zor
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby zor » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:14 pm

The security guidelines don't say anything about wifi/internet... do you think I can bring an ethernet cable in addition to my power cord? My laptop's wifi is okay but not great, and I've been in Javits before and the wifi was TERRIBLE.

summeisruined
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby summeisruined » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:16 pm

zor wrote:The security guidelines don't say anything about wifi/internet... do you think I can bring an ethernet cable in addition to my power cord? My laptop's wifi is okay but not great, and I've been in Javits before and the wifi was TERRIBLE.

why would you need wifi?

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zor
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby zor » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:17 pm

summeisruined wrote:
zor wrote:The security guidelines don't say anything about wifi/internet... do you think I can bring an ethernet cable in addition to my power cord? My laptop's wifi is okay but not great, and I've been in Javits before and the wifi was TERRIBLE.

why would you need wifi?


I assumed we need it to use ExamSoft? Do we not?

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dietcoke0
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby dietcoke0 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:21 pm

summeisruined wrote:
zor wrote:The security guidelines don't say anything about wifi/internet... do you think I can bring an ethernet cable in addition to my power cord? My laptop's wifi is okay but not great, and I've been in Javits before and the wifi was TERRIBLE.

why would you need wifi?


Yeah, upload shit. There's a deadline

yurista
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby yurista » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:26 pm

dietcoke0 wrote:
summeisruined wrote:
zor wrote:The security guidelines don't say anything about wifi/internet... do you think I can bring an ethernet cable in addition to my power cord? My laptop's wifi is okay but not great, and I've been in Javits before and the wifi was TERRIBLE.

why would you need wifi?


Yeah, upload shit. There's a deadline



The deadline for uploads isn't until wednesday.

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zor
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby zor » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:28 pm

yurista wrote:
dietcoke0 wrote:
summeisruined wrote:
zor wrote:The security guidelines don't say anything about wifi/internet... do you think I can bring an ethernet cable in addition to my power cord? My laptop's wifi is okay but not great, and I've been in Javits before and the wifi was TERRIBLE.

why would you need wifi?


Yeah, upload shit. There's a deadline



The deadline for uploads isn't until wednesday.


Wait, so you don't need to be actively connected to some kind of secure defcon server to take the exam? You just... upload it later?

Weird.

yurista
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby yurista » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:39 pm

zor wrote:
yurista wrote:
dietcoke0 wrote:
summeisruined wrote:
zor wrote:The security guidelines don't say anything about wifi/internet... do you think I can bring an ethernet cable in addition to my power cord? My laptop's wifi is okay but not great, and I've been in Javits before and the wifi was TERRIBLE.

why would you need wifi?


Yeah, upload shit. There's a deadline



The deadline for uploads isn't until wednesday.


Wait, so you don't need to be actively connected to some kind of secure defcon server to take the exam? You just... upload it later?

Weird.



I know. But I was on the phone with Softest this morning about computer issues and they told me we don't even have access to the internet at the site. https://ei.examsoft.com/GKWeb/login/nybar

yurista
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby yurista » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:44 pm

Is two glasses of wine too much? I've been in such intense study for the past two weeks after semi blowing off barbri all summer that winding down today is tough... At this point, I feel like sleep > review.

orangecup
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby orangecup » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:50 pm

yurista wrote:Is two glasses of wine too much? I've been in such intense study for the past two weeks after semi blowing off barbri all summer that winding down today is tough... At this point, I feel like sleep > review.


I did nothing today. Take it easy haha




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