NY July 2015 Support Group

rustyyoda
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby rustyyoda » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:12 am

Anyone know what time the public list gets posted?

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SemperLegal
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby SemperLegal » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:18 am

I think already. The congrats are streaming in.

Cscottrun9
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby Cscottrun9 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:30 am

Posted this in the MBE thread, but I'll add it here as well:

Passed NY with a 148 MBE. I took Pieper. If you are struggling with the essay portion, I highly suggest at least looking into his class. He gives you more information than any of the other prep programs, and its not even close. I wrote far more than the people around me who told me they took Barbri. For example, Barbri did not teach that de minimis encroachments rarely count towards adverse possession (at least that is what I was told). Easy extra points for me. He gives some pretty solid predictions (he hit on several) at the end of the class as well.

As for the MBE portion, I HATED Pieper's practice question. So much so that I actually went out and purchased the practice question books from other prep programs. Also was not a fan of Pieper's outlines, but realistically, he gives you so much in class that you barely ever have to look at them. I scored 118-122s on his mock exams. The curve put me at 148 on the real test, so I suppose my hate for his questions may be undeserved. Seems like a pretty good predictor.

I will add that for me, I was not worried about writing the essays. I was worried about having the material memorized. I did not follow his schedule for essay practice. In fact, I probably only did one or two practice essays all together. His schedule is basically impossible to follow anyway, he gives way too much to do.

nyny
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby nyny » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:38 am

SemperLegal wrote:I think already. The congrats are streaming in.


Where exactly are they (Public list)?

Cscottrun9
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby Cscottrun9 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:43 am

nyny wrote:
SemperLegal wrote:I think already. The congrats are streaming in.


Where exactly are they (Public list)?


http://www.newyorklawjournal.com/id=120 ... ar-Results

starryski
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby starryski » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:15 am

Cscottrun9 wrote:Posted this in the MBE thread, but I'll add it here as well:

Passed NY with a 148 MBE. I took Pieper. If you are struggling with the essay portion, I highly suggest at least looking into his class. He gives you more information than any of the other prep programs, and its not even close. I wrote far more than the people around me who told me they took Barbri. For example, Barbri did not teach that de minimis encroachments rarely count towards adverse possession (at least that is what I was told). Easy extra points for me. He gives some pretty solid predictions (he hit on several) at the end of the class as well.

As for the MBE portion, I HATED Pieper's practice question. So much so that I actually went out and purchased the practice question books from other prep programs. Also was not a fan of Pieper's outlines, but realistically, he gives you so much in class that you barely ever have to look at them. I scored 118-122s on his mock exams. The curve put me at 148 on the real test, so I suppose my hate for his questions may be undeserved. Seems like a pretty good predictor.

I will add that for me, I was not worried about writing the essays. I was worried about having the material memorized. I did not follow his schedule for essay practice. In fact, I probably only did one or two practice essays all together. His schedule is basically impossible to follow anyway, he gives way too much to do.


also took pieper and agree with all of this. i failed but felt very good about my essays and did above average. his class is not good for MBE though i had to supplement with Adaptibar, but only did this at the end of June. His books have all real MBEs which is a plus, but i felt like i spent too much time watching his videos and typing what he said word for word and i felt like a robot and nothing stuck. his hypos and anecdotes were helpful though.

this time around im going to start with adaptibar asap. i liked the structure of his classes so im going to use that as a guide. i submitted all the essays and got really good and useful feed back. oh and i memorized about 80% of his mnemonics which all i did was plug into my essays and it worked.

teacozy
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby teacozy » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:39 am

I passed with a 147 MBE (111 Barbri midterm, 114 Kaplan/PMBR final). I third the recommendation for Pieper for essays. I took one of the "bar prep" classes (quotes because it really only covers essay-writing) that he taught at local schools in the second semester of 3L, and it made a real difference in my essays and MPT. In addition to the MPT tips, his formulaic approach and stupid mnemonics saved my ass at a couple of points during the essays.

AReasonableMan
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby AReasonableMan » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:55 am

jl1004 wrote:
starryski wrote:
jl1004 wrote:Failed...

MBE: 132.4

Essay 1: 34.71
Essay 2: 57.71
Essay 3: 52.69
Essay 4: 43.76
Essay 5: 50.66
MPT: 39.05

Final score: 650

I don't understand how I got such low MPT score. This is my third time taking NY. My first exam (July 2014), i bombed the exam but still got 54 on MPT, and I got 57 on Feb 2015 exam. I don't know how I got 39.05 this year when I spent full 90 minutes. My MBE obviously is the weak point and I should've done better (I got 145 on Barbri mock exam, I guess I suck at taking the actual test), but if I got 54 on the MPT, I would've gotten 665. I am definitely going to request my essays to see wtf I did wrong. Ugh.. this is so demoralizing.. Might just give up being a lawyer seeing how stupid I am.


what were your final scores on the other two administrations?


596 for July 2014 (i was clearly unprepared), and 645 for Feb 2015.

I never understood how the test is scored. Honestly, I procrastinated to the point (July 20thish) that if I understood the test and wasn't incredibly conceited, I wouldn't have been able to pass. However, it seems almost everyone who fails still breaks a 500, which means there's probably almost no scores in the 850+ range. It's interesting because on the LSAT the discrepancy between the bottom and top ten percent tends to be like 50/100 questions.

If it's a if you write anything you get at least a 40 and if you write Shakespearian law you get a 60 then unless you're the kind of person who wrote a law review article or cali'd multiple classes, it would never make sense to go over time on any essay. I didn't know essay 5 so only spent like 5 minutes on it. In hindsight, probably dumb, but I'll never know.

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smaug
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby smaug » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:01 am

Yeah it's an interesting thought. I wonder what the lowest passing MBE scores looked like, just because that would be how you'd find the reasonable high end for essay performance. That said, it's likely that some of the people who killed the MBE also killed the essays, as they probably just studied more or are better at law exams than others.

I think this thread shows the easiest way to pass is to cram MBE and not study essays at all

AReasonableMan
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby AReasonableMan » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:06 am

smaug wrote:Yeah it's an interesting thought. I wonder what the lowest passing MBE scores looked like, just because that would be how you'd find the reasonable high end for essay performance. That said, it's likely that some of the people who killed the MBE also killed the essays, as they probably just studied more or are better at law exams than others.

I think this thread shows the easiest way to pass is to cram MBE and not study essays at all

That's what I did. I had read an article about how to pass in a 100 hours. Ironically, my MBE performance never changed much. I spent like 2 hours the Friday before the test reading model answers from the essay book, which I think is the most valuable resource. In hindsight, Barbri practice q's (where I spent 80% of my time) are pretty useless because they're not the real q's and not written like the real q's. The essays are real essays. My best grades in law school were ones where the prof supplied a model answer for a practice q. I could generally once over something that's considered good and get why it's good so found that more useful and time efficient than writing essays.

starryski
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby starryski » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:38 am

AReasonableMan wrote:
jl1004 wrote:
starryski wrote:
jl1004 wrote:Failed...

MBE: 132.4

Essay 1: 34.71
Essay 2: 57.71
Essay 3: 52.69
Essay 4: 43.76
Essay 5: 50.66
MPT: 39.05

Final score: 650

I don't understand how I got such low MPT score. This is my third time taking NY. My first exam (July 2014), i bombed the exam but still got 54 on MPT, and I got 57 on Feb 2015 exam. I don't know how I got 39.05 this year when I spent full 90 minutes. My MBE obviously is the weak point and I should've done better (I got 145 on Barbri mock exam, I guess I suck at taking the actual test), but if I got 54 on the MPT, I would've gotten 665. I am definitely going to request my essays to see wtf I did wrong. Ugh.. this is so demoralizing.. Might just give up being a lawyer seeing how stupid I am.


what were your final scores on the other two administrations?


596 for July 2014 (i was clearly unprepared), and 645 for Feb 2015.

I never understood how the test is scored. Honestly, I procrastinated to the point (July 20thish) that if I understood the test and wasn't incredibly conceited, I wouldn't have been able to pass. However, it seems almost everyone who fails still breaks a 500, which means there's probably almost no scores in the 850+ range. It's interesting because on the LSAT the discrepancy between the bottom and top ten percent tends to be like 50/100 questions.

If it's a if you write anything you get at least a 40 and if you write Shakespearian law you get a 60 then unless you're the kind of person who wrote a law review article or cali'd multiple classes, it would never make sense to go over time on any essay. I didn't know essay 5 so only spent like 5 minutes on it. In hindsight, probably dumb, but I'll never know.


i got 49, 50, 57, 50, 57, some crap like that and then a whopping 34 on the admin essay. im really curious to see what the heck they were expecting with that one. i wrote everything i knew about admin law, hearsay and crim and didn't even break 40. with a 40 i would have been able to pass even with my 124.5 MBE.

nyny
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby nyny » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:51 am

starryski wrote:
AReasonableMan wrote:
jl1004 wrote:
starryski wrote:
jl1004 wrote:Failed...

MBE: 132.4

Essay 1: 34.71
Essay 2: 57.71
Essay 3: 52.69
Essay 4: 43.76
Essay 5: 50.66
MPT: 39.05

Final score: 650

I don't understand how I got such low MPT score. This is my third time taking NY. My first exam (July 2014), i bombed the exam but still got 54 on MPT, and I got 57 on Feb 2015 exam. I don't know how I got 39.05 this year when I spent full 90 minutes. My MBE obviously is the weak point and I should've done better (I got 145 on Barbri mock exam, I guess I suck at taking the actual test), but if I got 54 on the MPT, I would've gotten 665. I am definitely going to request my essays to see wtf I did wrong. Ugh.. this is so demoralizing.. Might just give up being a lawyer seeing how stupid I am.


what were your final scores on the other two administrations?


596 for July 2014 (i was clearly unprepared), and 645 for Feb 2015.

I never understood how the test is scored. Honestly, I procrastinated to the point (July 20thish) that if I understood the test and wasn't incredibly conceited, I wouldn't have been able to pass. However, it seems almost everyone who fails still breaks a 500, which means there's probably almost no scores in the 850+ range. It's interesting because on the LSAT the discrepancy between the bottom and top ten percent tends to be like 50/100 questions.

If it's a if you write anything you get at least a 40 and if you write Shakespearian law you get a 60 then unless you're the kind of person who wrote a law review article or cali'd multiple classes, it would never make sense to go over time on any essay. I didn't know essay 5 so only spent like 5 minutes on it. In hindsight, probably dumb, but I'll never know.


i got 49, 50, 57, 50, 57, some crap like that and then a whopping 34 on the admin essay. im really curious to see what the heck they were expecting with that one. i wrote everything i knew about admin law, hearsay and crim and didn't even break 40. with a 40 i would have been able to pass even with my 124.5 MBE.


Yea all they were expecting with the admin essay was that under NY admin law the federal rules of evidence do not apply, so the admin court could use the hearsay testimony to charge the tenant and remove her. For the SOL, under Article 78 you must file your appeal within 4 months of the final judgement by the admin court, and all appeals under that admin court must be exhausted before filing article 78 appeal. For procedural due process, you can not affect a persons life, liberty or property without due process of the law... The apartment was a property right, and process was due... The court afforded her process, notice, and a trial, she could have brought an attorney which she didn't. For the crim part, he was guilty. The admin essay was so unfair, I would admit... they never tested it before, so it was a total curve ball

starryski
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby starryski » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:56 am

nyny wrote:
starryski wrote:
AReasonableMan wrote:
jl1004 wrote:
starryski wrote:
jl1004 wrote:Failed...

MBE: 132.4

Essay 1: 34.71
Essay 2: 57.71
Essay 3: 52.69
Essay 4: 43.76
Essay 5: 50.66
MPT: 39.05

Final score: 650

I don't understand how I got such low MPT score. This is my third time taking NY. My first exam (July 2014), i bombed the exam but still got 54 on MPT, and I got 57 on Feb 2015 exam. I don't know how I got 39.05 this year when I spent full 90 minutes. My MBE obviously is the weak point and I should've done better (I got 145 on Barbri mock exam, I guess I suck at taking the actual test), but if I got 54 on the MPT, I would've gotten 665. I am definitely going to request my essays to see wtf I did wrong. Ugh.. this is so demoralizing.. Might just give up being a lawyer seeing how stupid I am.


what were your final scores on the other two administrations?


596 for July 2014 (i was clearly unprepared), and 645 for Feb 2015.

I never understood how the test is scored. Honestly, I procrastinated to the point (July 20thish) that if I understood the test and wasn't incredibly conceited, I wouldn't have been able to pass. However, it seems almost everyone who fails still breaks a 500, which means there's probably almost no scores in the 850+ range. It's interesting because on the LSAT the discrepancy between the bottom and top ten percent tends to be like 50/100 questions.


If it's a if you write anything you get at least a 40 and if you write Shakespearian law you get a 60 then unless you're the kind of person who wrote a law review article or cali'd multiple classes, it would never make sense to go over time on any essay. I didn't know essay 5 so only spent like 5 minutes on it. In hindsight, probably dumb, but I'll never know.


i got 49, 50, 57, 50, 57, some crap like that and then a whopping 34 on the admin essay. im really curious to see what the heck they were expecting with that one. i wrote everything i knew about admin law, hearsay and crim and didn't even break 40. with a 40 i would have been able to pass even with my 124.5 MBE.


Yea all they were expecting with the admin essay was that under NY admin law the federal rules of evidence do not apply, so the admin court could use the hearsay testimony to charge the tenant and remove her. For the SOL, under Article 78 you must file your appeal within 4 months of the final judgement by the admin court, and all appeals under that admin court must be exhausted before filing article 78 appeal. For procedural due process, you can not affect a persons life, liberty or property without due process of the law... The apartment was a property right, and process was due... The court afforded her process, notice, and a trial, she could have brought an attorney which she didn't. For the crim part, he was guilty. The admin essay was so unfair, I would admit... they never tested it before, so it was a total curve ball


oh ok, i missed the fed rules and i mentioned art 78 but instead of 4 months i think i said 3. i did say appeals under the admin court must be exhausted before filing art 78. i missed procedural due pro, got the crim. heh.


edit: actually i do remember talking about due pro. i just have to get my materials and review that.

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Ajren Robben
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby Ajren Robben » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:30 pm

smaug wrote:I think this thread shows the easiest way to pass is to cram MBE and not study essays at all



I've heard this several times, but how can it be true if NY is 60% state and 40% MBE weighted?

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smaug
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby smaug » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:37 pm

Ajren Robben wrote:
smaug wrote:I think this thread shows the easiest way to pass is to cram MBE and not study essays at all



I've heard this several times, but how can it be true if NY is 60% state and 40% MBE weighted?

Because the variance in MBE scores is much greater than the variance in essay scores, both in terms of individual variance as a result of studying, and in terms of aggregate variance in the range of scores that people normally receive.

More concretely: Jim isn't going to change his essay scores that much, because once he learns the basic rule of IRAC and make up rules he hits a solid baseline, AND, no matter how much he studies, he is unlikely to destroy every essay in front of him. HOWEVER, he can raise his zero prep 100 MBE score to a 160 MBE score with a moderate amount of effort.

REGARDLESS of how much they studied, Jim, Jane, and Bob's essay scores were very similar, HOWEVER, their MBE scores were quite varied.

Ya ken?

nyny
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby nyny » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:43 pm

smaug wrote:
Ajren Robben wrote:
smaug wrote:I think this thread shows the easiest way to pass is to cram MBE and not study essays at all



I've heard this several times, but how can it be true if NY is 60% state and 40% MBE weighted?

Because the variance in MBE scores is much greater than the variance in essay scores, both in terms of individual variance as a result of studying, and in terms of aggregate variance in the range of scores that people normally receive.

More concretely: Jim isn't going to change his essay scores that much, because once he learns the basic rule of IRAC and make up rules he hits a solid baseline, AND, no matter how much he studies, he is unlikely to destroy every essay in front of him. HOWEVER, he can raise his zero prep 100 MBE score to a 160 MBE score with a moderate amount of effort.

REGARDLESS of how much they studied, Jim, Jane, and Bob's essay scores were very similar, HOWEVER, their MBE scores were quite varied.

Ya ken?


Exactly!! You got it. But you want to study enough to not bomb any essay, because there is plenty variance between a 30 essay and a 50. But a person who moderately knew the law and gets a 47, in comparison to someone who knew it blind and gets a 55, is not much variance.

marthac66
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby marthac66 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:43 pm

teacozy wrote:I passed with a 147 MBE (111 Barbri midterm, 114 Kaplan/PMBR final). I third the recommendation for Pieper for essays. I took one of the "bar prep" classes (quotes because it really only covers essay-writing) that he taught at local schools in the second semester of 3L, and it made a real difference in my essays and MPT. In addition to the MPT tips, his formulaic approach and stupid mnemonics saved my ass at a couple of points during the essays.


Hi there,

Do you have to actually buy the full Pieper course to attend a few key classes or what did you do?

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smaug
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby smaug » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:46 pm

nyny wrote:
smaug wrote:
Ajren Robben wrote:
smaug wrote:I think this thread shows the easiest way to pass is to cram MBE and not study essays at all



I've heard this several times, but how can it be true if NY is 60% state and 40% MBE weighted?

Because the variance in MBE scores is much greater than the variance in essay scores, both in terms of individual variance as a result of studying, and in terms of aggregate variance in the range of scores that people normally receive.

More concretely: Jim isn't going to change his essay scores that much, because once he learns the basic rule of IRAC and make up rules he hits a solid baseline, AND, no matter how much he studies, he is unlikely to destroy every essay in front of him. HOWEVER, he can raise his zero prep 100 MBE score to a 160 MBE score with a moderate amount of effort.

REGARDLESS of how much they studied, Jim, Jane, and Bob's essay scores were very similar, HOWEVER, their MBE scores were quite varied.

Ya ken?


Exactly!! You got it. But you want to study enough to not bomb any essay, because there is plenty variance between a 30 essay and a 50. But a person who moderately knew the law and gets a 47, in comparison to someone who knew it blind and gets a 55, is not much variance.


Maybe, but you can probably do that in very little time/without ever doing an essay. You will know enough law to BS it from MBE study.

I never wrote a practice essay and obviously am on team #noragrets.

Believe
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby Believe » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:56 pm

Hi All. I found this forum last week during a time when I was really freaking out about bar results, and it was just what I needed to calm me down a bit (although I still lost a lot of sleep). Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences - it was fun reading the posts. I decided to join now to hopefully provide some guidance to those who need to retake the exam. I was very grateful when I found online comments from other people that proved beneficial to me, so this is me giving back. I apologize in advance for the long note! I am a foreign-educated attorney. English is my first language. I first took the NY bar exam in July 2014, and failed by 11 points. I had done the Barbri course but was very dissatisfied with the support given and, to be very frank, would not recommend them to anyone. If you’re a full time student with no major commitments and lots of time on your hands, it could work; but that is not my life. I work full time and am married with 2 small kids. Time is a premium. Twice I reached out to the Barbri team for help in restructuring the study timetable to work better with my schedule but, both times, their response was unhelpful. It meant that I ended up doing a lot of unnecessary work and didn’t get to focus on the areas I should have been focussing on. I went into the exam not having practiced with any MBE questions, other than the 18 or so sample questions released by NCBE, because I simply run out of time doing unnecessary work, because I thought I had to listen to Barbri. I only scored 125 on the MBE. My essay and MPT scores were not stellar but they were good. My NYMC score was very good. I didn’t retake the exam in February because I was too busy kicking myself and feeling sorry for myself, so I missed the application deadline. (In the end, that worked out great because work got really busy during the latter part of 2014 into the middle of 2015, so there’s no way I would have found time to study). I decided to take the July 2015 exam but to do some things differently. Here’s my experience:
1. I used the Barbri lecture notes as a refresher, but that was it as far as using their materials.
2. I subscribed to Seperac’s database, which was worth every single penny. When I study, I am a relatively slow reader so I get bored quickly with reading. However, I have an uncanny ability to remember conversations well. Seperac has created MP3s of all the NY released questions and model answers (as well as other MP3s for studying). I downloaded onto my ipod and listened to all released questions and model answers for the past 11 years. While these candidates didn’t always get the law right, there is a reason their answers were chosen for publication! There is a tonne of information on Seperac’s website but, if you have the time to comb through it, it is totally worth it. He also provides good exam-taking strategies - I used only the ones I thought would work for me. His MP3s saved my butt big time! He also has good outlines for MBE & NY subjects.
3. I bought Emmanuel’s Strategies & Tactics, read all the strategies and did all the questions, except the simulated exam. I also read all the answer explanations, whether I got the question right or wrong, and I made a rules outline as I worked (tip from Seperac). I also bought Strategies & Tactics 2 and had a bunch of Kaplan/ PMBR questions, but I never found the time to work with those. My MBE score this time was 143.7 - not perfect but I’m thrilled with it. In my view, Emmanuel’s Strategies & Tactics is a must-have for MBE prep! Also, in doing MBE practice questions, quality is more important than quantity!! It makes no sense doing 2500 questions if you don’t know the legal principles well, and doing 2500 questions does not guarantee you will learn the legal principles well enough to answer other variations of questions that may come up. In my view, making a rules outline from the questions you have time for, and ensuring you get the principles right, are more important than using that additional time to do more questions. I would not recommend doing as few practice questions as I did (I simply ran out of time and had no choice - then was really worried that I had messed up again). But if you’re pressed for time, like I was, focus on the quality of time you spend practicing, not the quantity. I also made sure I was familiar with the 18 or so NCBE sample MBE questions.
4. Time management has always been an issue for me, so I knew I needed to be strategic. In last year’s exam, for instance, I did the NYMC first. I scored very well on it but that only contributes 10% to your grade. This time I started with the essays and answered the ones I thought I could do better on first. I run out of time on the NYMC and basically just looked through for short questions to answer (I left a lot of blank spaces). Also, when I realized I wouldn’t be able to take a simulated practice exam (under timed conditions), I started timing myself with just a few practice questions at a time, to get a feel for how quickly I could race through a question and still understand it enough to get it right. This helped me a lot on exam day. Last year, I run out of time during both sessions of the MBE. This year, I made sure to fill in a bubble for every question, even if I had to make an educated guess.

This is certainly not a model for the ages but I hope it provides comfort to at least one person that passing the NY bar exam is completely doable even when faced with challenges. Good luck!! Congrats to those who passed.

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Ajren Robben
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby Ajren Robben » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:17 pm

smaug wrote:
Ajren Robben wrote:
smaug wrote:I think this thread shows the easiest way to pass is to cram MBE and not study essays at all



I've heard this several times, but how can it be true if NY is 60% state and 40% MBE weighted?

Because the variance in MBE scores is much greater than the variance in essay scores, both in terms of individual variance as a result of studying, and in terms of aggregate variance in the range of scores that people normally receive.

More concretely: Jim isn't going to change his essay scores that much, because once he learns the basic rule of IRAC and make up rules he hits a solid baseline, AND, no matter how much he studies, he is unlikely to destroy every essay in front of him. HOWEVER, he can raise his zero prep 100 MBE score to a 160 MBE score with a moderate amount of effort.

REGARDLESS of how much they studied, Jim, Jane, and Bob's essay scores were very similar, HOWEVER, their MBE scores were quite varied.

Ya ken?


Makes sense. I kind of took the opposite approach in my state which also weighs MBE for only 40%. I basically just focused on state materials after I did decently well on the MBE midterm. My logic was that I should probably pass MBE based on my midterm score and so if I just pass the state sections I can be sure to pass overall. I don't have the result yet, so no sure if that strategy worked out.

Also isn't there something about some states curving the state scores to the MBE? I'm not sure what that means exactly.

teacozy
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby teacozy » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:09 pm

marthac66 wrote:
teacozy wrote:I passed with a 147 MBE (111 Barbri midterm, 114 Kaplan/PMBR final). I third the recommendation for Pieper for essays. I took one of the "bar prep" classes (quotes because it really only covers essay-writing) that he taught at local schools in the second semester of 3L, and it made a real difference in my essays and MPT. In addition to the MPT tips, his formulaic approach and stupid mnemonics saved my ass at a couple of points during the essays.


Hi there,

Do you have to actually buy the full Pieper course to attend a few key classes or what did you do?


He teaches a class at NYU, Fordham, CUNY, and Touro (not entirely sure about the accuracy of that list -- all I know is it's offered at a few local schools) called NY Practice. It's part of the regular course catalog, so it's free as long as you're an enrolled student. I believe it's only taught for 3Ls, with some schools offering it in the Fall and others in the Spring. He reviews some of the major topics like contracts, crim, and property, but the focus is definitely on writing.

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sd5289
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby sd5289 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:11 pm

Ajren Robben wrote:
smaug wrote:I think this thread shows the easiest way to pass is to cram MBE and not study essays at all


I've heard this several times, but how can it be true if NY is 60% state and 40% MBE weighted?


Read back earlier in the thread. There are some people with MBE scores in the 140s who failed because of their essay scores.

One other thing to think about for Feb is that the NY essay day is first, and we all know how that Admin essay threw a lot of people into chaos, which likely created a lot of negative energy going into both the MPT (which should be easy points) and the MBE day. I ended up getting a 153.3 on the MBE even though I only got 130-something during the simulation. Thanks to the Themis thread here on TLS, I thought to quickly review the Admin outline the night before and morning of the NY day, and when it came flying at us the way it did in essay #5, I felt fine about my answer and even more relieved like I'd dodged a serious bullet. I was able to concentrate on the MPT after that, and went into the MBE feeling "okay." I don't know what my essay scores were because they don't give them to you if you pass, but I can't help but think that my feeling okay after the NY essay day helped me to remain calm and focused during the MBE.

So if anything, don't overlook the NY essays because half of this damn exam is the mind game (as evidenced by the inclusion of that Admin essay). Keeping yourself calm and collected, assuming you put in the work on practice the MBE, is half the battle.

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smaug
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby smaug » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:21 pm

I just also assume that some people can't write.

gchatbrah
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby gchatbrah » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:43 pm

sd5289 wrote:
Ajren Robben wrote:
smaug wrote:I think this thread shows the easiest way to pass is to cram MBE and not study essays at all


I've heard this several times, but how can it be true if NY is 60% state and 40% MBE weighted?


Read back earlier in the thread. There are some people with MBE scores in the 140s who failed because of their essay scores.

One other thing to think about for Feb is that the NY essay day is first, and we all know how that Admin essay threw a lot of people into chaos, which likely created a lot of negative energy going into both the MPT (which should be easy points) and the MBE day. I ended up getting a 153.3 on the MBE even though I only got 130-something during the simulation. Thanks to the Themis thread here on TLS, I thought to quickly review the Admin outline the night before and morning of the NY day, and when it came flying at us the way it did in essay #5, I felt fine about my answer and even more relieved like I'd dodged a serious bullet. I was able to concentrate on the MPT after that, and went into the MBE feeling "okay." I don't know what my essay scores were because they don't give them to you if you pass, but I can't help but think that my feeling okay after the NY essay day helped me to remain calm and focused during the MBE.

So if anything, don't overlook the NY essays because half of this damn exam is the mind game (as evidenced by the inclusion of that Admin essay). Keeping yourself calm and collected, assuming you put in the work on practice the MBE, is half the battle.



To sort of build on this, I also think test taking strategy is helpful -- the first thing I did when I received the essays in the morning and afternoon was to briefly scan all prompts, to get a sense of what was coming. This was actually crucial for me in the afternoon -- saw there was an Admin essay, had not studied Admin for more than 2 hours, so I knew I would only need about 10-15 minutes to spew whatever bullshit I was going to put down instead. That let me toss 2 full hours into the MPT; when they award points for formatting, that extra time was essential. I only got a 132.x on the MBE, so I think this strategy was helpful on the essay portion.

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Ajren Robben
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Re: NY July 2015 Support Group

Postby Ajren Robben » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:55 pm

My impression is that MBE is a black box because of how confusing the questions are. So studying more for MBE may not help very much since you will end up guessing on a lot of the questions anyway. On the other hand, on the essays (and short answers) the questions are a lot more clear-cut and simply test whether you know the rules, so memorizing more rules is likely to produce a higher score. This impression was confirmed by my feeling coming out of the exam. I felt that those many hours I spent memorizing state laws have definitely paid off for the most part. I could not imagine answering those questions as well without knowing the many detailed rules. As to the MBE, I felt about the same as I did after the midterm, having to guess on a lot of the questions. The jury is still out on whether I pass and with what score. I took TX.

My Barbri midterm raw score was like a 141. I also thought that midterm review lectures were hugely helpful. But I didn't do very much for the MBE after that. Fingers crossed.




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