BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

murray18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby murray18 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:40 pm

kyle010723 wrote:
murray18 wrote:Last minute panic attack alert! Just wrote out 3 timed essays. 4/6 on the first two after self grading, but I got 1/6 on the third. I completely fucked up a rule of law, and applied all of the facts to that rule, thus missing out on like 60% of Barbri's points. On the bar, what would happen if we get the rule wrong and then apply all of the facts to that rule?

I feel like I should be coasting at this point... I'm averaging about 70% on Barbri's MBE stuff, and I'm in a pure UBE state. Should I legitimately be worried, or is this pretty common?


I don't know how you guys are self grading all these essays. My book has questions, and model answers. There's nothing to grade with.


My MEE book has a self-scoring rubric for each essay prompt, along with a model answer. Its nice to get an idea of where you stand, but I have trouble being fair in my grading. I either give myself a point for getting sort of close, or I don't county any points because I'm trying to be too strict.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:42 pm

murray18 wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:
murray18 wrote:Last minute panic attack alert! Just wrote out 3 timed essays. 4/6 on the first two after self grading, but I got 1/6 on the third. I completely fucked up a rule of law, and applied all of the facts to that rule, thus missing out on like 60% of Barbri's points. On the bar, what would happen if we get the rule wrong and then apply all of the facts to that rule?

I feel like I should be coasting at this point... I'm averaging about 70% on Barbri's MBE stuff, and I'm in a pure UBE state. Should I legitimately be worried, or is this pretty common?


I don't know how you guys are self grading all these essays. My book has questions, and model answers. There's nothing to grade with.


My MEE book has a self-scoring rubric for each essay prompt, along with a model answer. Its nice to get an idea of where you stand, but I have trouble being fair in my grading. I either give myself a point for getting sort of close, or I don't county any points because I'm trying to be too strict.


I wish ours have that. It's useless when Barbri tell us to self-grade without giving me a rubric. So screwed on essays.

ladylawyer1221
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby ladylawyer1221 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:43 pm

kyle010723 wrote:
murray18 wrote:Last minute panic attack alert! Just wrote out 3 timed essays. 4/6 on the first two after self grading, but I got 1/6 on the third. I completely fucked up a rule of law, and applied all of the facts to that rule, thus missing out on like 60% of Barbri's points. On the bar, what would happen if we get the rule wrong and then apply all of the facts to that rule?

I feel like I should be coasting at this point... I'm averaging about 70% on Barbri's MBE stuff, and I'm in a pure UBE state. Should I legitimately be worried, or is this pretty common?


I don't know how you guys are self grading all these essays. My book has questions, and model answers. There's nothing to grade with.


^^^ right?? This is one the main reasons I'm SO nervous for the essays. I'm in Texas, and we don't have any sort of rubric.... only Barbri's insane model answers, and the BLE selected answers online. I am dying to know what a failing essay looks like, and what a ~16 essay looks like.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:45 pm

We got a rubric for the simulated essays, but that's it. I ranged anywhere from 4/5 to 1/5... Meh...

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:46 pm

murray18 wrote:Last minute panic attack alert! Just wrote out 3 timed essays. 4/6 on the first two after self grading, but I got 1/6 on the third. I completely fucked up a rule of law, and applied all of the facts to that rule, thus missing out on like 60% of Barbri's points. On the bar, what would happen if we get the rule wrong and then apply all of the facts to that rule?

I feel like I should be coasting at this point... I'm averaging about 70% on Barbri's MBE stuff, and I'm in a pure UBE state. Should I legitimately be worried, or is this pretty common?


If you apply wrong law to the facts you can still pass so long as the application is solid. If you know the general rule but mess up a few of the elements, then you're fine. You'd only fail if 1) you don't cite a rule, 2) the rule you cite isn't even "in the ballpark," so to speak.

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:50 pm

ladylawyer1221 wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:
murray18 wrote:Last minute panic attack alert! Just wrote out 3 timed essays. 4/6 on the first two after self grading, but I got 1/6 on the third. I completely fucked up a rule of law, and applied all of the facts to that rule, thus missing out on like 60% of Barbri's points. On the bar, what would happen if we get the rule wrong and then apply all of the facts to that rule?

I feel like I should be coasting at this point... I'm averaging about 70% on Barbri's MBE stuff, and I'm in a pure UBE state. Should I legitimately be worried, or is this pretty common?


I don't know how you guys are self grading all these essays. My book has questions, and model answers. There's nothing to grade with.


^^^ right?? This is one the main reasons I'm SO nervous for the essays. I'm in Texas, and we don't have any sort of rubric.... only Barbri's insane model answers, and the BLE selected answers online. I am dying to know what a failing essay looks like, and what a ~16 essay looks like.


Our prof showed us an example of a failing essay. It didn't follow CRAC, cited no rule, and basically just stated a conclusion with no support (also was really short, like 3-4 sentences). Any good faith attempt to apply rules to the facts will result in passing so long as you structure it properly. Bonus if the rule is actually correct. Prof suggested underlining every fact that you think is pertinent. If you don't know a rule, then make up a rule that makes use of that fact in some way. You get the bulk of your points from following the structure and applying the rules. Correctly memorizing and reciting the textbook rule is icing on the cake.
Last edited by Neff on Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Outis Onoma
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Outis Onoma » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:52 pm

Starting to freak out about the MPT. My nightmare is getting a wills question and freezing up because I've never seen an actual will before. But I also want to spend some time reviewing my outlines. Some subjects like evidence are already a bit rusty.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:54 pm

Outis Onoma wrote:Starting to freak out about the MPT. My nightmare is getting a wills question and freezing up because I've never seen an actual will before. But I also want to spend some time reviewing my outlines. Some subjects like evidence are already a bit rusty.


Welcome to the club. But supposedly they give you a template as to how to draft it. From what someone else said anyway.

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:56 pm

redblueyellow wrote:Contracts - Risk of Loss

In a shipment contract, "once delivery [to a common carrier] is complete, risk of loss shifts to the buyer." There is no mention of whether the seller is a merchant or non-merchant.

In the next section, "If a merchant seller, risk of loss shifts to buyer once he takes physical possession of the goods. If non-merchant seller, risk of loss shifts to the buyer upon tendering delivery."

How does you reconcile a shipment contract by a merchant seller? When does risk of loss pass to the buyer? At physical possession of goods, or at delivery to common carrier?


Your first rule is only for contracts where delivery will be by common carrier, whether the seller is a merchant or not. Your second rule applies when it's not a common carrier shipment.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:00 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
redblueyellow wrote:Contracts - Risk of Loss

In a shipment contract, "once delivery [to a common carrier] is complete, risk of loss shifts to the buyer." There is no mention of whether the seller is a merchant or non-merchant.

In the next section, "If a merchant seller, risk of loss shifts to buyer once he takes physical possession of the goods. If non-merchant seller, risk of loss shifts to the buyer upon tendering delivery."

How does you reconcile a shipment contract by a merchant seller? When does risk of loss pass to the buyer? At physical possession of goods, or at delivery to common carrier?


Your first rule is only for contracts where delivery will be by common carrier, whether the seller is a merchant or not. Your second rule applies when it's not a common carrier shipment.


So when you buy shoes at a store, you paid for the shoes and while waiting for the change, some robbery burst in, grab all the cash and the pair of shoes. Can you get another pair from the store..?

Kage3212
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:04 pm

When everyone does MPT do you just do that same Barbri CRAC under each section if it can be divided into said sections?

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:07 pm

Kage3212 wrote:When everyone does MPT do you just do that same Barbri CRAC under each section if it can be divided into said sections?


Do what the instruction sheet says. But usually yes, not Barbri format, just what you typically do in law school.

ladylawyer1221
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby ladylawyer1221 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:07 pm

Kage3212 wrote:When everyone does MPT do you just do that same Barbri CRAC under each section if it can be divided into said sections?


It depends what type of task you are given (like if it's a demand letter, legal memo, etc) -- I flipped through the MPT workbook and just looked at a couple of the instruction sheets and read through the sample answers. It should give you a feel for what you'll be expected to do (although usually Barbri's model answers were still too long).

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:09 pm

kyle010723 wrote:
musicfor18 wrote:
redblueyellow wrote:Contracts - Risk of Loss

In a shipment contract, "once delivery [to a common carrier] is complete, risk of loss shifts to the buyer." There is no mention of whether the seller is a merchant or non-merchant.

In the next section, "If a merchant seller, risk of loss shifts to buyer once he takes physical possession of the goods. If non-merchant seller, risk of loss shifts to the buyer upon tendering delivery."

How does you reconcile a shipment contract by a merchant seller? When does risk of loss pass to the buyer? At physical possession of goods, or at delivery to common carrier?


Your first rule is only for contracts where delivery will be by common carrier, whether the seller is a merchant or not. Your second rule applies when it's not a common carrier shipment.


So when you buy shoes at a store, you paid for the shoes and while waiting for the change, some robbery burst in, grab all the cash and the pair of shoes. Can you get another pair from the store..?


I guess? Depends on whether you'd already taken physical possession of the shoes.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:11 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:So when you buy shoes at a store, you paid for the shoes and while waiting for the change, some robbery burst in, grab all the cash and the pair of shoes. Can you get another pair from the store..?

I guess? Depends on whether you'd already taken physical possession of the shoes.

It was one of those Barbri questions which I just stared and took a 50/50 guess.

murray18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby murray18 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:11 pm

Neff wrote:
ladylawyer1221 wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:
murray18 wrote:Last minute panic attack alert! Just wrote out 3 timed essays. 4/6 on the first two after self grading, but I got 1/6 on the third. I completely fucked up a rule of law, and applied all of the facts to that rule, thus missing out on like 60% of Barbri's points. On the bar, what would happen if we get the rule wrong and then apply all of the facts to that rule?

I feel like I should be coasting at this point... I'm averaging about 70% on Barbri's MBE stuff, and I'm in a pure UBE state. Should I legitimately be worried, or is this pretty common?


I don't know how you guys are self grading all these essays. My book has questions, and model answers. There's nothing to grade with.


^^^ right?? This is one the main reasons I'm SO nervous for the essays. I'm in Texas, and we don't have any sort of rubric.... only Barbri's insane model answers, and the BLE selected answers online. I am dying to know what a failing essay looks like, and what a ~16 essay looks like.


Our prof showed us an example of a failing essay. It didn't follow CRAC, cited no rule, and basically just stated a conclusion with no support (also was really short, like 3-4 sentences). Any good faith attempt to apply rules to the facts will result in passing so long as you structure it properly. Bonus if the rule is actually correct. Prof suggested underlining every fact that you think is pertinent. If you don't know a rule, then make up a rule that makes use of that fact in some way. You get the bulk of your points from following the structure and applying the rules. Correctly memorizing and reciting the textbook rule is icing on the cake.


I really appreciate the reassurance. Also just realized that the essay was written by Barbri (i.e. no date at the bottom), which explains the fact that half of the points relied on getting the right result and rule for the first issue. I'm definitely not going to learn much more law between now and Tuesday, so I'm going to move on and forget that essay (even if I'm lying to myself)!

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brotherdarkness
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby brotherdarkness » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:29 pm

Neff wrote:
ladylawyer1221 wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:
murray18 wrote:Last minute panic attack alert! Just wrote out 3 timed essays. 4/6 on the first two after self grading, but I got 1/6 on the third. I completely fucked up a rule of law, and applied all of the facts to that rule, thus missing out on like 60% of Barbri's points. On the bar, what would happen if we get the rule wrong and then apply all of the facts to that rule?

I feel like I should be coasting at this point... I'm averaging about 70% on Barbri's MBE stuff, and I'm in a pure UBE state. Should I legitimately be worried, or is this pretty common?


I don't know how you guys are self grading all these essays. My book has questions, and model answers. There's nothing to grade with.


^^^ right?? This is one the main reasons I'm SO nervous for the essays. I'm in Texas, and we don't have any sort of rubric.... only Barbri's insane model answers, and the BLE selected answers online. I am dying to know what a failing essay looks like, and what a ~16 essay looks like.


Our prof showed us an example of a failing essay. It didn't follow CRAC, cited no rule, and basically just stated a conclusion with no support (also was really short, like 3-4 sentences). Any good faith attempt to apply rules to the facts will result in passing so long as you structure it properly. Bonus if the rule is actually correct. Prof suggested underlining every fact that you think is pertinent. If you don't know a rule, then make up a rule that makes use of that fact in some way. You get the bulk of your points from following the structure and applying the rules. Correctly memorizing and reciting the textbook rule is icing on the cake.


Sometimes I hear people say things like "oh I've seen a failing essay and it was hardly even legible," but I also hear people talk about going on BarEssays.com and seeing good essays receive failing scores and shitty essays receive passing scores and huge discrepancies between re-grades (10-point swings). Maybe this is unique to CA, but I have no idea what a failing essay truly looks like. The obvious concern is that it looks just like mine...

cdelgado
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby cdelgado » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:39 pm

Yeah I have yet to be sold on the idea that it doesn't take much to recieve a passing grade on the essays.

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brotherdarkness
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby brotherdarkness » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:40 pm

cdelgado wrote:Yeah I have yet to be sold on the idea that it doesn't take much to recieve a passing grade on the essays.


If the former dean of SLS couldn't cobble together passing answers, I assume you might actually have to know some law.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:43 pm

I know everyone said just bs some stuff. But in school, we always go into an exam knowing pretty much everything there is to know. This barely know enough to write something somewhat reasonable is just not what we're used to.

catch12
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby catch12 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:46 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:
cdelgado wrote:Yeah I have yet to be sold on the idea that it doesn't take much to recieve a passing grade on the essays.


If the former dean of SLS couldn't cobble together passing answers, I assume you might actually have to know some law.


This is exactly what I'm worried about. I've seen some pretty good 60s on baressays.com. There's no way I'm gonna recite these rules word for word, and I'm unsure of how close we really have to come or how much analysis can really make up for messing up rules.

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gmail
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby gmail » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:50 pm

I have to say, I hate StudySmart questions with a passion (currently at 0% for advanced-level torts) but it's damn good identifying the specific topics where I'm fucking up.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:58 pm

Found this online for what a real "top" answer looked like from Feb 2015. Much more realistic than Barbri's perfect answer I guess.

https://courts.arkansas.gov/sites/defau ... 202015.pdf

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:02 am

kyle010723 wrote:Found this online for what a real "top" answer looked like from Feb 2015. Much more realistic than Barbri's perfect answer I guess.

https://courts.arkansas.gov/sites/defau ... 202015.pdf



Seems doable (assuming i have any clue as to what the question is asking lol)

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:06 am

Good Guy Gaud wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:Found this online for what a real "top" answer looked like from Feb 2015. Much more realistic than Barbri's perfect answer I guess.

https://courts.arkansas.gov/sites/defau ... 202015.pdf



Seems doable (assuming i have any clue as to what the question is asking lol)


Yea, the MEE questions for the most part seemed ok. One secured transaction and one wills. Those two I guess I'll have to make stuff up. But the answer didn't perfectly recite rules either and missed several elements.

Though I'm sure every state is different, those answers seemed way beyond word limits and way longer than what I can put down in 30 min. (Or 9 pages for MPT!?)




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