BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

User avatar
brotherdarkness
Posts: 3254
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:11 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby brotherdarkness » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:39 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:Any problems using issue preclusion between criminal and civil cases. Example: State charges Dave with murder of Victoria. Dave is found guilty of murdering Victoria. Now Victoria's estate wants to bring a wrongful death action (or something) against Dave. Victoria's estate can use offensive collateral estoppel to conclusively establish that Dave did in fact kill Victoria?

Yep. Fine to use offensively as long as not unfair to the other side. Would be ok there.


Hm okay. I remember reading something about how this might be a problem because of different burdens of proof in various types of cases, but I don't remember the context (criminal/civil, or something totally different).

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15515
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:47 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:Any problems using issue preclusion between criminal and civil cases. Example: State charges Dave with murder of Victoria. Dave is found guilty of murdering Victoria. Now Victoria's estate wants to bring a wrongful death action (or something) against Dave. Victoria's estate can use offensive collateral estoppel to conclusively establish that Dave did in fact kill Victoria?

Yep. Fine to use offensively as long as not unfair to the other side. Would be ok there.


Hm okay. I remember reading something about how this might be a problem because of different burdens of proof in various types of cases, but I don't remember the context (criminal/civil, or something totally different).

Yeah the state wouldn't be able to do it in its case against Dave because the standard of proof is higher, but issue preclusion in a wrongful death case after a murder conviction happens all the time.

User avatar
brotherdarkness
Posts: 3254
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:11 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby brotherdarkness » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:53 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:Any problems using issue preclusion between criminal and civil cases. Example: State charges Dave with murder of Victoria. Dave is found guilty of murdering Victoria. Now Victoria's estate wants to bring a wrongful death action (or something) against Dave. Victoria's estate can use offensive collateral estoppel to conclusively establish that Dave did in fact kill Victoria?

Yep. Fine to use offensively as long as not unfair to the other side. Would be ok there.


Hm okay. I remember reading something about how this might be a problem because of different burdens of proof in various types of cases, but I don't remember the context (criminal/civil, or something totally different).

Yeah the state wouldn't be able to do it in its case against Dave because the standard of proof is higher, but issue preclusion in a wrongful death case after a murder conviction happens all the time.


I think I'm a bit dense, so bear with me. If the civil case for wrongful death was before the criminal case, the state couldn't subsequently use issue preclusion in its criminal case?

User avatar
rickgrimes69
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 am

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:57 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:Any problems using issue preclusion between criminal and civil cases. Example: State charges Dave with murder of Victoria. Dave is found guilty of murdering Victoria. Now Victoria's estate wants to bring a wrongful death action (or something) against Dave. Victoria's estate can use offensive collateral estoppel to conclusively establish that Dave did in fact kill Victoria?

Yep. Fine to use offensively as long as not unfair to the other side. Would be ok there.


Hm okay. I remember reading something about how this might be a problem because of different burdens of proof in various types of cases, but I don't remember the context (criminal/civil, or something totally different).

Yeah the state wouldn't be able to do it in its case against Dave because the standard of proof is higher, but issue preclusion in a wrongful death case after a murder conviction happens all the time.


I think I'm a bit dense, so bear with me. If the civil case for wrongful death was before the criminal case, the state couldn't subsequently use issue preclusion in its criminal case?


Correct, because the burden of proof is higher in criminal cases. You could do it the other way around, though.

User avatar
brotherdarkness
Posts: 3254
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:11 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby brotherdarkness » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:59 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:Correct, because the burden of proof is higher in criminal cases. You could do it the other way around, though.


Great, got it. Thanks!

Kage3212
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:34 am

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:08 pm

Have we determined whether Barbri scores our essays based on raw or scaled scores?

Isn't true in every state that essay scores are scaled as well? If so, what kind of bump is usually given to essays?

User avatar
Good Guy Gaud
Posts: 5433
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:41 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:13 pm

Kage3212 wrote:Have we determined whether Barbri scores our essays based on raw or scaled scores?

Isn't true in every state that essay scores are scaled as well? If so, what kind of bump is usually given to essays?


also interested (in AZ, they are scaled to 100 and I have no idea how it gets there)

jamescastle
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:58 am

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby jamescastle » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:28 pm

Doing an old question set I had never gotten around to and was greeted with this in the BARBRI answer:

This question is difficult because each of the choices appears to present a good argument.

:x

Poopface
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:03 am

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Poopface » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:10 am

kykiske wrote:Random thought when jamming to Taylor Swift in the shower:

Let's say you score a 130/200 on Barbri's simulated MBE. And because of the "Barbri" effect, on exam day, you score a 140/200. Then, you get 15 points added to your scaled score. 155/200 scaled.


does everyone get the same amount added to their raw score? like does someone who scores 120 raw get 15 added to get to 135 scaled, and someone who gets a 135 raw also gets 15 added to get to 150 scaled? or is it like a % bump instead of a hard # bump?

kyle010723
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:15 am

Poopface wrote:does everyone get the same amount added to their raw score? like does someone who scores 120 raw get 15 added to get to 135 scaled, and someone who gets a 135 raw also gets 15 added to get to 150 scaled? or is it like a % bump instead of a hard # bump?


No, it is a scaled score, by some magical formula that NCBE applies. +15 is just a conventional wisdom

User avatar
Good Guy Gaud
Posts: 5433
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:41 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:18 am

kyle010723 wrote:
Poopface wrote:does everyone get the same amount added to their raw score? like does someone who scores 120 raw get 15 added to get to 135 scaled, and someone who gets a 135 raw also gets 15 added to get to 150 scaled? or is it like a % bump instead of a hard # bump?


No, it is a scaled score, by some magical formula that NCBE applies. +15 is just a conventional wisdom


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... GU&cad=rja

link to a pdf with raw score conversions (not sure how accurate it is but because i have nothing else to go off of i'll accept it)

User avatar
brotherdarkness
Posts: 3254
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:11 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby brotherdarkness » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:21 am

Good Guy Gaud wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:
Poopface wrote:does everyone get the same amount added to their raw score? like does someone who scores 120 raw get 15 added to get to 135 scaled, and someone who gets a 135 raw also gets 15 added to get to 150 scaled? or is it like a % bump instead of a hard # bump?


No, it is a scaled score, by some magical formula that NCBE applies. +15 is just a conventional wisdom


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... GU&cad=rja

link to a pdf with raw score conversions (not sure how accurate it is but because i have nothing else to go off of i'll accept it)


No one scored higher than a 173 raw? That's an impressive score, but I assumed that there'd be a couple of people out there acing the MBE.

User avatar
RaleighStClair
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 12:10 am

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:23 am

Poopface wrote:
kykiske wrote:Random thought when jamming to Taylor Swift in the shower:

Let's say you score a 130/200 on Barbri's simulated MBE. And because of the "Barbri" effect, on exam day, you score a 140/200. Then, you get 15 points added to your scaled score. 155/200 scaled.


does everyone get the same amount added to their raw score? like does someone who scores 120 raw get 15 added to get to 135 scaled, and someone who gets a 135 raw also gets 15 added to get to 150 scaled? or is it like a % bump instead of a hard # bump?


I don't think anyone knows exactly how it's scaled. I know it varies test to test. But - hate to be a downer here - remember the raw is out of 190 on the real thing. 10 are experimental/ungraded.

Kage3212
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:34 am

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:38 am

Is anyone actually completing the "Review CMR Outline" assignments from the actual CMR? Or rather or you just using the time to go back over lecture notes?

jamescastle
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:58 am

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby jamescastle » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:40 am

Kage3212 wrote:Is anyone actually completing the "Review CMR Outline" assignments from the actual CMR? Or rather or you just using the time to go back over lecture notes?

I use the time to go over my outlines/lecture notes/whatever I'm using to review for that subject. But once I make that material I don't look at the CMR again unless it's to verify something I missed in an essay.

victortsoi
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:51 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby victortsoi » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:42 am

Kage3212 wrote:Is anyone actually completing the "Review CMR Outline" assignments from the actual CMR? Or rather or you just using the time to go back over lecture notes?



I just read the outlines that I have/ smart bar essay outlines and check it off

User avatar
N.P.H.
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:51 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby N.P.H. » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:46 am

how worthwhile are the test review videos?? i already reviewed my answers. does it give tips and tricks or is it just basically a video of the explanations?

kyle010723
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:48 am

N.P.H. wrote:how worthwhile are the test review videos?? i already reviewed my answers. does it give tips and tricks or is it just basically a video of the explanations?


Nothing ground shattering. Except you get to learn about how to pass the real estate licensing exam.

kyle010723
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:50 am

Kage3212 wrote:Is anyone actually completing the "Review CMR Outline" assignments from the actual CMR? Or rather or you just using the time to go back over lecture notes?


I am going over lecture notes, except the state distinctions, I flipped through those in CMR (not really all that important in my state).

User avatar
3|ink
Posts: 7331
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:23 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:01 am

N.P.H. wrote:how worthwhile are the test review videos?? i already reviewed my answers. does it give tips and tricks or is it just basically a video of the explanations?

Yep. I've completely abandoned barbri.

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to print out all 27 outlines and read them all one-by-one the next few days.

User avatar
smokeylarue
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby smokeylarue » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:02 am

Just HOW different is Emmanuel questions compared to Barbri. I've done pretty much all the Barbri MBE practice questions possible, I've seen a lot of comments in this thread that they "feel different." Are the BARBRI questions that different than the real thing?

kyle010723
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:03 am

smokeylarue wrote:Just HOW different is Emmanuel questions compared to Barbri. I've done pretty much all the Barbri MBE practice questions possible, I've seen a lot of comments in this thread that they "feel different." Are the BARBRI questions that different than the real thing?


No clue about the "real thing" since none of us took it yet. Emanuel "feels" very different as in its questions make you feel uncomfortable. But usually ended up doing ok percentage wise.

User avatar
Good Guy Gaud
Posts: 5433
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:41 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:08 am

smokeylarue wrote:Just HOW different is Emmanuel questions compared to Barbri. I've done pretty much all the Barbri MBE practice questions possible, I've seen a lot of comments in this thread that they "feel different." Are the BARBRI questions that different than the real thing?


They're pretty different but what you've learned in BarBri will still typically get you to the correct answer choice. I think most of us see improved scores with Emanual's (which are all actual questions [save for the civ pro] as far as I understand it) as compared to BarBri's.

kyle010723
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:15 am

Good Guy Gaud wrote:They're pretty different but what you've learned in BarBri will still typically get you to the correct answer choice. I think most of us see improved scores with Emanual's (which are all actual questions [save for the civ pro] as far as I understand it) as compared to BarBri's.


Emanuel S&T is a compilation of released questions, S&T2 are questions written by Emanuel himself (I think)?

On that note, did anyone read the subject notes on Emanuel (the few pages before question sets)? I dove right into questions so I skipped them. Are they worth reading?

anozira
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby anozira » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:17 am

thewaterlanding wrote:My dad was diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer like 3-4 weeks ago.

Sorry to hear that. I lost my Dad to cancer during law school. My biggest regret is not spending more time with him. Instead, I was too focused on grades and studying instead of maximizing my time with my Dad. Don't make that mistake. There will always be another opportunity to take the bar exam. But you won't have another opportunity to spend this precious time with your father. Just one perspective from someone who, unfortunately, has been through what you're going through. PM me if you ever need to talk or vent.




Return to “Bar Exam Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests