BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

toplawnerd
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby toplawnerd » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:19 pm

mushybrain wrote:Do you guys find these essay writing approach lectures useful? Because I really don't. It basically feels like "study stuff, know the important stuff, answer the question being asked." The accompanying outlines feel way too brief to be useful, and it's not like they seem to highlight things I couldn't have guessed I needed to know. When it's "if X, make sure you address Y and Z" it's just the elements of the rule, so obviously I need to address them.


maybe it's just me, but for me, i think the main take away from the essay workshops is how closely you're supposed to follow cirac format and how broadly you should start. i feel like in law school on my exams i didn't really bother (and i wasn't penalized for not doing so) to follow cirac/irac very closely. but on the bar, it seems like it's important to begin every essay with "the issue here is __." similarly, in law school i didn't explicitly say, "a contract is promise or set of promises that is legally enforceable..." whereas on the bar stating this big-picture rule on a contracts exam is probably worth a point.

those two items aside, i think you're right. know what i mean?

myrtlewinston
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby myrtlewinston » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:42 pm

Watch the Agency and Partnership lecture. The Prof is very helpful about essay writing.

mr.hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mr.hands » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:11 pm

I still haven't gotten a clear answer: what do you do if barbri only assigns 4 hours of work in a day? I feel like I waste time looking over flash cards

(FWIW, the MBE is worth way less than 50% in my state so doing practice questions isn't that useful

mushybrain
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mushybrain » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:06 am

toplawnerd wrote:
mushybrain wrote:Do you guys find these essay writing approach lectures useful? Because I really don't. It basically feels like "study stuff, know the important stuff, answer the question being asked." The accompanying outlines feel way too brief to be useful, and it's not like they seem to highlight things I couldn't have guessed I needed to know. When it's "if X, make sure you address Y and Z" it's just the elements of the rule, so obviously I need to address them.


maybe it's just me, but for me, i think the main take away from the essay workshops is how closely you're supposed to follow cirac format and how broadly you should start. i feel like in law school on my exams i didn't really bother (and i wasn't penalized for not doing so) to follow cirac/irac very closely. but on the bar, it seems like it's important to begin every essay with "the issue here is __." similarly, in law school i didn't explicitly say, "a contract is promise or set of promises that is legally enforceable..." whereas on the bar stating this big-picture rule on a contracts exam is probably worth a point.

those two items aside, i think you're right. know what i mean?


Yeah, I know what you mean here. I did realize the first time I self-graded that I needed to go from the huge picture down to the narrow one in a way I never really had to in law school.

myrtlewinston wrote:Watch the Agency and Partnership lecture. The Prof is very helpful about essay writing.


Thanks, good to know!

mushybrain
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mushybrain » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:26 am

Freer wins best voice so far. I am very appreciative that he seems animated.

ash0117
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby ash0117 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:54 pm

mushybrain wrote:Freer wins best voice so far. I am very appreciative that he seems animated.


I was listening to the Civ Pro lecture and my sister came into my room to get something. She said he sounds like a game show host. Totally spot on, in my opinion. Hey, at least he's excited!

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No13baby
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby No13baby » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:11 pm

ash0117 wrote:
mushybrain wrote:Freer wins best voice so far. I am very appreciative that he seems animated.


I was listening to the Civ Pro lecture and my sister came into my room to get something. She said he sounds like a game show host. Totally spot on, in my opinion. Hey, at least he's excited!


Haha, I kind of think he sounds like Reverend Lovejoy. I like him a lot though; I feel like I learned civil procedure better from him than I did from my actual professor.

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kapital98
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kapital98 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:13 pm

Does anyone have an outline for NY Civ Pro? PM me. Thanks!

mushybrain
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mushybrain » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:23 pm

Game show host is spot on! And yeah, I definitely feel like I'm absorbing much more of the material with the way he's going through it. I like that he doesn't really dwell on the hypos too much.

myrtlewinston
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby myrtlewinston » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:38 pm

Reminds me of "Wheel of Fortune." We have him again for Corporations. Yay!

diowad
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby diowad » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:17 pm

Sooooo Contracts is apparently a brutal subject for me. Not sure how to streamline all 3 days of lecture into something usable. I sucked at it during law school too since I never really "got it" concerning two sets of laws to learn and then I wasn't very good at Remedies in law school either so it's looking like I may be in big trouble for Contracts.

And of course, Property is on the horizon :(

toplawnerd
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby toplawnerd » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:25 pm

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but what is the purpose of your percentile rank by subject compared to other barbri students? Obviously, higher is better, but has barbri stated that being in the top X% is generally indicative of passing? Or, is it basically meaningless wrt to passing but potentially helpful to show where you could improve?

victortsoi
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby victortsoi » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:59 pm

From what I understand, 20%ile is about a good indicator of passage, depending on state. I should hope that the people that actually paid for barbri are a self selected higher perfoming group, but that opinion has no basis of knowledge lol.

Also, I'm trying out a new method, doing all the amps before the diagnostics. Is this credited?

Backpacker
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Backpacker » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:14 pm

jas31 wrote:
mushybrain wrote:Do you guys find these essay writing approach lectures useful? Because I really don't. It basically feels like "study stuff, know the important stuff, answer the question being asked." The accompanying outlines feel way too brief to be useful, and it's not like they seem to highlight things I couldn't have guessed I needed to know.


On the essays for Barbri, I'm completely frustrated. First, the graded essay was completely unhelpful, even wrong. Some of the advice was contradictory to our state specific instruction on the essays. Second, if you're in a state like VA where the MBE is only 40 % of the overall assessment, then self-grading essays isn't very helpful. I simply do not know what is even in the ballpark of a decent essay, considering the sample answers are often ridiculously on point. I do not know if my off-the-mark essay, that is well-organized and applies a different rule gets me anywhere close to a passing score.

It seems like again and again, Barbri gives us a set of rules to study (in the short outlines for class, for example) and then when you get to the essay for that topic, those rules are not very helpful or not heavily tested. I'd like to hear from someone who used Barbri to approach a bar exam with lots of Essay (like Virginia).


bump

toplawnerd
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby toplawnerd » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:20 pm

toplawnerd wrote:Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but what is the purpose of your percentile rank by subject compared to other barbri students? Obviously, higher is better, but has barbri stated that being in the top X% is generally indicative of passing? Or, is it basically meaningless wrt to passing but potentially helpful to show where you could improve?


victortsoi wrote:From what I understand, 20%ile is about a good indicator of passage, depending on state. I should hope that the people that actually paid for barbri are a self selected higher perfoming group, but that opinion has no basis of knowledge lol.

Also, I'm trying out a new method, doing all the amps before the diagnostics. Is this credited?


Just to be clear, you're saying that being in the 20% of barbri students in a given subject is a good indicator of passage (for that subject)?

victortsoi
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby victortsoi » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:34 pm

Yes, i believe so. However, obviously, thats not "great" and id think at least 30 would be much safer.

Kage3212
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:47 pm

toplawnerd wrote:
toplawnerd wrote:Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but what is the purpose of your percentile rank by subject compared to other barbri students? Obviously, higher is better, but has barbri stated that being in the top X% is generally indicative of passing? Or, is it basically meaningless wrt to passing but potentially helpful to show where you could improve?


victortsoi wrote:From what I understand, 20%ile is about a good indicator of passage, depending on state. I should hope that the people that actually paid for barbri are a self selected higher perfoming group, but that opinion has no basis of knowledge lol.

Also, I'm trying out a new method, doing all the amps before the diagnostics. Is this credited?


Just to be clear, you're saying that being in the 20% of barbri students in a given subject is a good indicator of passage (for that subject)?


I would be hesitant about this. If you are consistently falling in the 20th percentile in multiple subjects, you may be venturing into the "fail territory." If you are in a state where 75% pass, and you rank consistently in 20th percentile, you are not in that 75% passing group. If you are in the 20th percentile, I would advise you to keep studying that subject and taking practice problems from whatever source until you see yourself improving drastically. At this point it is probably no worry (i.e. it is early in the course), but 20th percentile is far from a "good" indicator that you are going to pass.

toplawnerd
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby toplawnerd » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:55 pm

Kage3212 wrote:
toplawnerd wrote:
toplawnerd wrote:Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but what is the purpose of your percentile rank by subject compared to other barbri students? Obviously, higher is better, but has barbri stated that being in the top X% is generally indicative of passing? Or, is it basically meaningless wrt to passing but potentially helpful to show where you could improve?


victortsoi wrote:From what I understand, 20%ile is about a good indicator of passage, depending on state. I should hope that the people that actually paid for barbri are a self selected higher perfoming group, but that opinion has no basis of knowledge lol.

Also, I'm trying out a new method, doing all the amps before the diagnostics. Is this credited?


Just to be clear, you're saying that being in the 20% of barbri students in a given subject is a good indicator of passage (for that subject)?


I would be hesitant about this. If you are consistently falling in the 20th percentile in multiple subjects, you may be venturing into the "fail territory." If you are in a state where 75% pass, and you rank consistently in 20th percentile, you are not in that 75% passing group. If you are in the 20th percentile, I would advise you to keep studying that subject and taking practice problems from whatever source until you see yourself improving drastically. At this point it is probably no worry (i.e. it is early in the course), but 20th percentile is far from a "good" indicator that you are going to pass.


Thanks for the explanation. I'm taking it in NY. To be honest, I haven't put much effort into understanding how the test is scored. I'm just focusing on practice problems/studying. (i'm not at or anywhere close to the 20%, just curious how it's graded--that said, considering how much time there is until the end of July, i'd say no one is either safe or out of luck).

rhs100
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby rhs100 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:46 pm

victortsoi wrote:From what I understand, 20%ile is about a good indicator of passage, depending on state. I should hope that the people that actually paid for barbri are a self selected higher perfoming group, but that opinion has no basis of knowledge lol.

Also, I'm trying out a new method, doing all the amps before the diagnostics. Is this credited?


Interesting. On the other hand, I'm avoiding all things AMP - so much so that I gave up doing the diagnostics since it has AMP like stuff - and going straight to the workshops, then the MPQ sets. My thought is I will go back to the diagnostics if I need to, but I want to learn from the actual hypo type stuff for context. Bad idea?

victortsoi
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby victortsoi » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:47 pm

i find that the amps really drive in the bll, so that you can more easily recognize when it comes up in hypos. like "oh, that guy relied on his father's promise to make a gift" or "those inherently dangerous materials didn't cause harm because of their dangerous nature, they just fell of a truck"- for example. its a way to learn the bll other than reading the notes, which can be tedious. I'll try it, for now.

Outis Onoma
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Outis Onoma » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:06 am

The criminal procedure stuff was the least comprehensible subject so far. Everything blends into a massive reasonable suspicion and probable cause turd.

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Learned Throw Hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Learned Throw Hands » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:37 am

This is literal hell.

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History_Buff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby History_Buff » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:28 am

After completely fucking up the K's diagnostic (I'm talking like less than 40% of black letter right and 25% of the questions right), I went through all the AMPs and spent a few hours on outlines.

Took the Multiple Choice workshop and got 20/25. Feels good to see improvement like that.

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Danger Zone
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:35 am

The guy that teaches all the Crim stuff, Kip Cornwell, is by far the worst lecturer yet. Everyone else for New York has been on point.

rhs100
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby rhs100 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:33 pm

Arghh ... anyone else confused with all the different automobile related Crim Pro stuff? Any good way to get over that confusion?




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