BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:55 am

Andrews989 wrote:On the criminal procedure questions, can anyone explain the difference between when to choose these two answer choices?
1) The confession was obtained involuntarily
2) The confession was obtained in violation of Miranda

Barbri usually says both are correct, but one is better in the circumstances for some random reason


My impression is
1) Put Defendant in a room to talk with his mom after giving him Miranda, unbeknown to Defendant, the room was rigged
2) Had custody and interrogated Defendant without giving him the Miranda. i.e. Police handcuffed you and asked you if that bag of cocaine is yours

cdelgado
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby cdelgado » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:00 am

Andrews989 wrote:On the criminal procedure questions, can anyone explain the difference between when to choose these two answer choices?
1) The confession was obtained involuntarily
2) The confession was obtained in violation of Miranda

Barbri usually says both are correct, but one is better in the circumstances for some random reason

Involuntariness concerns the due process standard (the totality of the circumstances).

Miranda concerns custodial interrogation.

Both have different requirements and different timing. A confession might be voluntary and thus satisfy due process, but it could still violate Miranda.

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:26 am

Andrews989 wrote:On the criminal procedure questions, can anyone explain the difference between when to choose these two answer choices?
1) The confession was obtained involuntarily
2) The confession was obtained in violation of Miranda

Barbri usually says both are correct, but one is better in the circumstances for some random reason



Miranda is a prophylactic rule. It's designed to deal with the fact that it's often difficult to determine whether a confession was actually given voluntarily or not, so we impose the Miranda warnings safeguard. But, even if the police follow all of the Miranda rules, a confession can still be thrown out if the D can prove that it was actually obtained involuntarily (in violation of due process), which means there has to have been highly coercive police conduct that overwhelmed the D's free will.

It also works the other way around: Even if the confession was actually voluntary, we'll still exclude it if Miranda was violated. The reason for this is what I stated above (it's too hard to determine whether the confession was actually voluntary or not, and the coercive atmosphere of a custodial interrogation is enough for us to essentially presume it's involuntary unless Miranda warnings are given).

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:18 pm

kyle010723 wrote:
Andrews989 wrote:On the criminal procedure questions, can anyone explain the difference between when to choose these two answer choices?
1) The confession was obtained involuntarily
2) The confession was obtained in violation of Miranda

Barbri usually says both are correct, but one is better in the circumstances for some random reason


My impression is
1) Put Defendant in a room to talk with his mom after giving him Miranda, unbeknown to Defendant, the room was rigged
2) Had custody and interrogated Defendant without giving him the Miranda. i.e. Police handcuffed you and asked you if that bag of cocaine is yours


I'm not completely sure that your number (1) example would violate due process. My sense is it would be more of a 4th Amendment issue. Anyone have thoughts on this?

xlawschoolhopefulx
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby xlawschoolhopefulx » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:29 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:
Andrews989 wrote:On the criminal procedure questions, can anyone explain the difference between when to choose these two answer choices?
1) The confession was obtained involuntarily
2) The confession was obtained in violation of Miranda

Barbri usually says both are correct, but one is better in the circumstances for some random reason


My impression is
1) Put Defendant in a room to talk with his mom after giving him Miranda, unbeknown to Defendant, the room was rigged
2) Had custody and interrogated Defendant without giving him the Miranda. i.e. Police handcuffed you and asked you if that bag of cocaine is yours


I'm not completely sure that your number (1) example would violate due process. My sense is it would be more of a 4th Amendment issue. Anyone have thoughts on this?



(1) kind of resembles a question from MBE Set 5. Rigging the room without a warrant and p.c. would raise a voluntariness issue if putting the defendant in the room amounted to an interrogation. In the example from set 5, I believe the defendant was told that his girlfriend (a co-conspirator) had confessed to the crime and then allowed him to speak with her in a rigged room knowing that they would likely discuss the crime she supposedly confessed to.

diowad
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby diowad » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:36 pm

Just forcing myself to finish the BarBri Set 6's. They effing suck, or at least I think so. Just want to get them outta the way and then finish with Emanuel late next week so I'm not so depressed going into the exam.

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:50 pm

xlawschoolhopefulx wrote:
musicfor18 wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:
Andrews989 wrote:On the criminal procedure questions, can anyone explain the difference between when to choose these two answer choices?
1) The confession was obtained involuntarily
2) The confession was obtained in violation of Miranda

Barbri usually says both are correct, but one is better in the circumstances for some random reason


My impression is
1) Put Defendant in a room to talk with his mom after giving him Miranda, unbeknown to Defendant, the room was rigged
2) Had custody and interrogated Defendant without giving him the Miranda. i.e. Police handcuffed you and asked you if that bag of cocaine is yours


I'm not completely sure that your number (1) example would violate due process. My sense is it would be more of a 4th Amendment issue. Anyone have thoughts on this?



(1) kind of resembles a question from MBE Set 5. Rigging the room without a warrant and p.c. would raise a voluntariness issue if putting the defendant in the room amounted to an interrogation. In the example from set 5, I believe the defendant was told that his girlfriend (a co-conspirator) had confessed to the crime and then allowed him to speak with her in a rigged room knowing that they would likely discuss the crime she supposedly confessed to.


Was this a due process or Miranda issue? In other words, had the defendant been given Miranda warnings?

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Bcmurphy42
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Bcmurphy42 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:16 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:
diowad wrote:Damn Idk how you guys with the wacky sleep schedule function. I mean I'll start studying around 8-9 am and then shut it down by 6 pm. In bed by 11. Anything more and I don't hang on to stuff at all.


I'm doing around 9-7/8pm with about two hours off in between eating lunch, walking dogs, watching sportscenter, etc.
At least for me I can't retain much beyond this period and I think the biggest risk of failing the bar at this point is being incredibly sleep deprived for the test and/or just thoroughly run down.


Better than having a two week old! I'm so ready for this bar shit to be over with. Barbri has absolutely been awful, and I still do not feel like I'm prepared.

Glad I'm not the only one that sucked ass on the refresher--I got a 66/100, and ran out of time on the last 5. I did terrible on the second 50, and absolutely despicable on the Con Law (missed 10!!).

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Bcmurphy42
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Bcmurphy42 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:27 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
xlawschoolhopefulx wrote:
musicfor18 wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:
Andrews989 wrote:On the criminal procedure questions, can anyone explain the difference between when to choose these two answer choices?
1) The confession was obtained involuntarily
2) The confession was obtained in violation of Miranda

Barbri usually says both are correct, but one is better in the circumstances for some random reason


My impression is
1) Put Defendant in a room to talk with his mom after giving him Miranda, unbeknown to Defendant, the room was rigged
2) Had custody and interrogated Defendant without giving him the Miranda. i.e. Police handcuffed you and asked you if that bag of cocaine is yours


I'm not completely sure that your number (1) example would violate due process. My sense is it would be more of a 4th Amendment issue. Anyone have thoughts on this?



(1) kind of resembles a question from MBE Set 5. Rigging the room without a warrant and p.c. would raise a voluntariness issue if putting the defendant in the room amounted to an interrogation. In the example from set 5, I believe the defendant was told that his girlfriend (a co-conspirator) had confessed to the crime and then allowed him to speak with her in a rigged room knowing that they would likely discuss the crime she supposedly confessed to.


Was this a due process or Miranda issue? In other words, had the defendant been given Miranda warnings?


(1) would be a due process issue with or without the defendant getting Mirandized. That is, if the officers took the defendant out back and beat him until he confessed, that is obviously an extreme example of an involuntary confession. An involuntary confession might be when the defendant does not know of the recorder in the room--which would be against due process. However, if the defendant had not invoked his Miranda warnings, it would likely not been against his Miranda rights, because the officers did not have to scrupulously honor his invocation of rights. Also, if the defendant knew or should have known that the conversation was being recorded, I think I remember a case from crim pro of the cop laying a recorder on the table before he left or something, then the confession would not violate his due process rights and would be voluntary.

My crim pro prof always said the #1 thing to remember is we are trying to deter the police behavior, not reward the defendant.

(2) For the confession to be in violation of Miranda, like I said above, the confession would have to have been given without the Miranda warnings (improperly, like without saying they have the right to remain silent) or if the defendant affirmatively invokes his rights, then by not scrupulously honoring that invocation.

This could be like totally wrong, but this is what comes to mind from what I remember learning back in crim pro.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:48 pm

Are you guys practicing MPTs at all?

I've done a handful up to this point and it seems that this will be more of a gameday activity than anything else (ie., based purely on speed) because we don't need any knowledge coming into it.

Does anyone else feel the same way? Thoughts?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:50 pm

Good Guy Gaud wrote:Are you guys practicing MPTs at all?

I've done a handful up to this point and it seems that this will be more of a gameday activity than anything else (ie., based purely on speed) because we don't need any knowledge coming into it.

Does anyone else feel the same way? Thoughts?

Yeah I'm holding off on those until later for the most part. That's mainly just procrastinating because I don't want to spend three hours on that damn thing but it's also because there isn't any substantive knowledge required. Still plan to knock out a few next week though just to make sure I'm familiar with the format.

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3|ink
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:51 pm

What is the point of the super priority for purchase-money creditors? I get that they get first priority, but it is my understanding that they also have to comply with the recording statutes. Does that just mean that they have to record eventually, but the sequence of recording will not affect their priority?

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:55 pm

3|ink wrote:What is the point of the super priority for purchase-money creditors? I get that they get first priority, but it is my understanding that they also have to comply with the recording statutes. Does that just mean that they have to record eventually, but the sequence of recording will not affect their priority?


The clearest example is that they get priority over prior creditors with after-acquired mortgage or collateral rights. Beyond that, I'm as confused as you are.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:56 pm

Good Guy Gaud wrote:Are you guys practicing MPTs at all?

I've done a handful up to this point and it seems that this will be more of a gameday activity than anything else (ie., based purely on speed) because we don't need any knowledge coming into it.

Does anyone else feel the same way? Thoughts?


I want to try one of those odd ball MPT before the real thing just in case. Like one of those fact gathering questions that I've heard about.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:56 pm

3|ink wrote:What is the point of the super priority for purchase-money creditors? I get that they get first priority, but it is my understanding that they also have to comply with the recording statutes. Does that just mean that they have to record eventually, but the sequence of recording will not affect their priority?


Only non-consumer good PM-creditors still have to comply with recording statutes, but yea, what you've said (sequence of recording doesn't affect priority) is basically my understanding of why their super-priority is beneficial.

At least, this is how I understand it. I'm sure Tiago will come in and explain it to us :lol:

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:58 pm

Good Guy Gaud wrote:
3|ink wrote:What is the point of the super priority for purchase-money creditors? I get that they get first priority, but it is my understanding that they also have to comply with the recording statutes. Does that just mean that they have to record eventually, but the sequence of recording will not affect their priority?


Only non-consumer good PM-creditors still have to comply with recording statutes, but yea, what you've said (sequence of recording doesn't affect priority) is basically my understanding of why their super-priority is beneficial.

At least, this is how I understand it. I'm sure Tiago will come in and explain it to us :lol:


And this is because consumer good PMSIs perfect automatically upon attachment, right? But do they really never have to record even to get super priority?

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:58 pm

kyle010723 wrote:
Good Guy Gaud wrote:Are you guys practicing MPTs at all?

I've done a handful up to this point and it seems that this will be more of a gameday activity than anything else (ie., based purely on speed) because we don't need any knowledge coming into it.

Does anyone else feel the same way? Thoughts?


I want to try one of those odd ball MPT before the real thing just in case. Like one of those fact gathering questions that I've heard about.


This or one of the draft-a-will MPTs is what I've been hoping for but I still haven't come across one. Admittedly I haven't looked through the material for one but I assumed BarBri would have included more of them than the regular draft a memo/argument section ones.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:59 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
Good Guy Gaud wrote:
3|ink wrote:What is the point of the super priority for purchase-money creditors? I get that they get first priority, but it is my understanding that they also have to comply with the recording statutes. Does that just mean that they have to record eventually, but the sequence of recording will not affect their priority?


Only non-consumer good PM-creditors still have to comply with recording statutes, but yea, what you've said (sequence of recording doesn't affect priority) is basically my understanding of why their super-priority is beneficial.

At least, this is how I understand it. I'm sure Tiago will come in and explain it to us :lol:


And this is because consumer good PMSIs perfect automatically upon attachment, right? But do they really never have to record even to get super priority?


Hmm.. I'm not really sure now that I think about it. I just always assumed their auto-perfection would imply that much.

mr.hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mr.hands » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:59 pm

3|ink wrote:What is the point of the super priority for purchase-money creditors? I get that they get first priority, but it is my understanding that they also have to comply with the recording statutes. Does that just mean that they have to record eventually, but the sequence of recording will not affect their priority?


Assuming that you're referring to priority for PMSIs in secured transactions, the requirements differ depending on the collateral. (PMSIs in consumer goods are auto perfected so no need to file a financing statement). So it's almost game over once they attach, the big exception being buyers in the ordinary course

With respect to PMSIs in other collateral - namely inventory and equipment - once they later file, they then get super priority over earlier perfected non-possessory security interests.

Edit: it looks like 30 people have already answered this question

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:03 pm

Sure, it's been answered a million times but the BIOC exception is a big deal that I neglected to mention. Good lookin' out.

kykiske
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kykiske » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:06 pm

I just completed Emmanuel's MBE "Full Practice Exam." I did not do it all in one sitting. Did 50 questions per day, over four days.

I got 134/200 (67%).

I'm actually pretty happy. On Barbri's simulated MBE, I got 108/200.

I'm really hoping I can score around 134-140/200 on the real MBE. With comparable performances on the MEE and MPT, I should be able to pass in my jurisdiction :)

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:13 pm

Well done!

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:14 pm

Good Guy Gaud wrote:This or one of the draft-a-will MPTs is what I've been hoping for but I still haven't come across one. Admittedly I haven't looked through the material for one but I assumed BarBri would have included more of them than the regular draft a memo/argument section ones.


Holy cow, now I am terrified. What if they do give us a draft a will question. They can be testing family law, property, and wills and trust at the same time, in the state of Franklin...

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:16 pm

kyle010723 wrote:
Good Guy Gaud wrote:This or one of the draft-a-will MPTs is what I've been hoping for but I still haven't come across one. Admittedly I haven't looked through the material for one but I assumed BarBri would have included more of them than the regular draft a memo/argument section ones.


Holy cow, now I am terrified. What if they do give us a draft a will question. They can be testing family law, property, and wills and trust at the same time, in the state of Franklin...


Have some comfort in that nearly everyone else will be in a comparable position. I think that's why I am the least stressed out about this portion of the test.

Kage3212
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:19 pm

3|ink wrote:What is the point of the super priority for purchase-money creditors? I get that they get first priority, but it is my understanding that they also have to comply with the recording statutes. Does that just mean that they have to record eventually, but the sequence of recording will not affect their priority?


I will answer this under the assumption that you are asking with regard to land sale stuff and mortgages (no idea about the secured transaction stuff above).

The MBE analysis lecture after practice exam did a good job describing this (question 26).

PMM are generally superior when judged against PRIOR mortgages on the property. So if you have prior mortgagees of the mortgatgor, a PMM who comes in AFTER those people, they get this super priority.

However, a PMM still has to play by the recording statute rules with regard to subsequent mortgages. Thus, if a PMM doesnt record, and the mortgagor takes out another mortgage on the property and that Bank 2 mortgagee records, Bank 2 beats the PMM. Thus, a PMM is capable of being defeated by SUBSEQUENT mortgages or liens by operation of the recording acts.




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