BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:54 pm

cdelgado wrote:
charlesxavier wrote:
941law wrote:
charlesxavier wrote:
Anybody else certain they would fail if they followed barbri's schedule? At this point if I know the rules my essays are similar to the models. However, a troubling amount of the time I'm blanking out. I need to stop writing and start memorizing.


What makes you say that? Just these July assignments? I'm sure if someone did 100% of Barbri via their schedule that they would pass. I'm not the biggest fan of the schedule, But I'd imagine it would get the job done.


I guess I meant if you only did what Barbri assigned. In my mind it's way too little. I'm on schedule at 76% and had to abandon today. In my state the MBE is only 1/3 and I feel like the schedule is geared towards MBE prep. For example today they wanted me to spend 2 hours reviewing civ pro and do a single essay and MPQ set 5. Up until now it's all been fed civ pro for the MBE, but Ohio Civ pro is significantly different.

I'm in complete agreement. It is too little for states that focus more on essays.


But maybe the material is so thin for state topics precisely because passing state essays takes so much less effort than passing the MBE. Others may disagree, but everything points to the fact that a passing essay is one that answers the prompt in good faith while following the CRAC structure. Barbri doesn't focus on state essays as much because those who fail are those who just couldn't write and thus were beyond hope in the first place. When you can make up the rules and still pass, it becomes more a test of general reasoning/writing skills than anything else.

-- The eternal optimist

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941law
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 941law » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:56 pm

I think some of you getting caught up in essay grading and exact scheduling are missing the "head fake" lesson here from Barbri, which is that you're seeing enough content to be able to swim on test day. It might be different water and you'll need a different swim stroke, but you'll have the tools to swim and not drown.

For those with complaints about it favoring materials that aren't as tested in your specific state, well, that's a valid complaint.

In reality, they should just send us all the content for half the price and say good luck.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:58 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
DportIA wrote:I would not take BARBRI again and I did not even have to pay for it. It is legitimately awful. Buy filled-in lecture hand outs (probably on ebay), used state essay book (they are definitely $40 on ebay), and buy the Emanuel's MBE book. Success, for around $200--and you drilled on real questions.


Agreed, and I also didn't pay for Barbri. It's clear that they put most of their efforts into the MBE (which is cost-effective, since 49 states administer the MBE), and then make a token effort at the state subjects (which is much less cost-effective for them, since every state is different). I am not a lazy, complacent person, and I don't need to be inordinately scared into preparing for the exam. What I need is to feel confident that I'm prepared, and Barbri has not at all helped me to feel confident on the state subjects.


I would never pay what Barbri charges to take the course
I'm not sure how the essay grading works, but even with Barbri's grading rubric you can completely miss multiple issues and still get a passing grade
and obviously on the bar exam you can get a failing grade on some essays and make up for it in other ones or on the MPT or MBE

Barbro
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Barbro » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:58 pm

941law wrote:
Barbro wrote:
I'm at 92% and still feel like I don't know jack sh*t. Barbri is terrifying.

Maybe so, but it remains to be seen how well you will do on the bar - thus my point. When did you start Barbri?


A couple days before the actual start date, I didn't want to fall behind during graduation. I got ahead on days that didn't have much assigned. My point is that I feel like I should be crushing it after 75% and indeed I am not.

kykiske
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kykiske » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:06 pm

My current problem is lack of motivation. Pretty burnt out.

I'm lucky if I can get in like, 4 hours of solid studying per day.

I have no clue how my peers are spending 12+ hours in the library each and every day.

I haven't touched most of the Barbri books. So far, I've only opened the lecture book, the MBE practice book, the MEE practice book, the CMR, and the MPT book (very recently).

Barbro
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Barbro » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:15 pm

kykiske wrote:My current problem is lack of motivation. Pretty burnt out.

I'm lucky if I can get in like, 4 hours of solid studying per day.

I have no clue how my peers are spending 12+ hours in the library each and every day.

I haven't touched most of the Barbri books. So far, I've only opened the lecture book, the MBE practice book, the MEE practice book, the CMR, and the MPT book (very recently).


Oh I haven't opened the big outlines at all. If that's the level of detail we need, we're all in a lot of trouble.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:25 pm

kykiske wrote:My current problem is lack of motivation. Pretty burnt out.

I'm lucky if I can get in like, 4 hours of solid studying per day.

I have no clue how my peers are spending 12+ hours in the library each and every day.


Fear my friend. Fear is honestly the strongest motivation for anyone that is still pushing. In all likelihood, most if not all of us will pass at this point. But Barbri purposely instill fear upon us that we are right on the edge, and we must study harder, hence the average of 50% to 60%. I think this method is valid to a certain degree, but when it turns into irrationally second guessing every decision, then it is counter-productive. I also think pounding us with impossible problem is unnecessary, but maybe it will make the real thing seem like a breeze, and although we may think our confidence is being shattered right now, it might actually boost our confidence if we see a problem and think to ourselves "wow, this is so easy, I know this!"

I too complain about Barbri all the time, but to some extend, it's working. (Except the whole essay thing, it is soooo arbitrary!!!)

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BearState
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby BearState » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:34 pm

Finished the Refresher--I totally blew Con law (my strongest area by far, consistent high scores) but dominated contracts--my weakest area. What gives

corgibutts18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby corgibutts18 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:37 pm

jamescastle wrote:I talked to two people this week that took BARBRI for July 2014 and they both said that BARBRI's questions were about the same or easier than the real MBE.
I'm finding that really hard to believe since it seems to go against what everyone is saying in here, especially those that have compared BARBRI % to Emmanuel's %.
Gave me unneeded worry, regardless.


Same. I also talked to a handful of people who said that Barbri questions were right on target for the MBE in July '14. A few said the real questions were harder than Barbri's questions. But all of those people also said they crushed the MBE.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:46 pm

The sky is falling

kykiske
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kykiske » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:46 pm

kyle010723 wrote:
kykiske wrote:My current problem is lack of motivation. Pretty burnt out.

I'm lucky if I can get in like, 4 hours of solid studying per day.

I have no clue how my peers are spending 12+ hours in the library each and every day.


Fear my friend. Fear is honestly the strongest motivation for anyone that is still pushing. In all likelihood, most if not all of us will pass at this point. But Barbri purposely instill fear upon us that we are right on the edge, and we must study harder, hence the average of 50% to 60%. I think this method is valid to a certain degree, but when it turns into irrationally second guessing every decision, then it is counter-productive. I also think pounding us with impossible problem is unnecessary, but maybe it will make the real thing seem like a breeze, and although we may think our confidence is being shattered right now, it might actually boost our confidence if we see a problem and think to ourselves "wow, this is so easy, I know this!"

I too complain about Barbri all the time, but to some extend, it's working. (Except the whole essay thing, it is soooo arbitrary!!!)


It's actually a strange paradox for me. When I first started prep, I was basically second-guessing everything. To be blunt, I was somehow afraid of doing poorly on the practice exams. I was afraid to check my scores after each MBE set or MEE practice essay. To compensate for that fear, I would study like, 6-8 hours a day. Sometimes 10 hours (yikes).

Now, either because of apathy or confidence, I don't even think twice when grading my answers. I just compare/contrast. Read what I did right. Read what I did wrong. Then commit as much as possible to memory. So now, I usually put in 4, MAYBE 5 hours a day.

And my scores are improving. Going from 50% to around 64-68% on the MBEs, and from barely passing to comfortably passing on the MEEs.

I'd almost liken it to studying as a 1L. Thinking back, I wasted so much time studying as a 1L. I would make a large outline. Then read it over and over again. Then make a short outline. Then read it over and over again. Then, I'd do practice exams. All in all, I probably studied 10+ hours a day from Thanksgiving through the end of finals.

As a 2L/3L, I didn't even make a large outline, nor did I ever even read one. I just made short outlines and did practice exams. I barely did the readings, and didn't even start outlining until the week before each exam. Maybe studied 5 hours a day. Sometimes not at all.

Oddly enough, both methods led to very similar results (As, A-s, B+s), but the 2L/3L approach consumed considerably fewer hours, and I was generally a more pleasant person to be around.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby rickgrimes69 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:48 pm

corgibutts18 wrote:
jamescastle wrote:I talked to two people this week that took BARBRI for July 2014 and they both said that BARBRI's questions were about the same or easier than the real MBE.
I'm finding that really hard to believe since it seems to go against what everyone is saying in here, especially those that have compared BARBRI % to Emmanuel's %.
Gave me unneeded worry, regardless.


Same. I also talked to a handful of people who said that Barbri questions were right on target for the MBE in July '14. A few said the real questions were harder than Barbri's questions. But all of those people also said they crushed the MBE.


That can't be right. Everyone says Barbri's questions are harder than the real thing - even Barbri.

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:54 pm

Anyone who's done the Refresher, did you find the first 50 or second 50 to be particularly harder than the other? Just finished the first 50 and taking a break...just curious.

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charlesxavier
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby charlesxavier » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:06 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
corgibutts18 wrote:
jamescastle wrote:I talked to two people this week that took BARBRI for July 2014 and they both said that BARBRI's questions were about the same or easier than the real MBE.
I'm finding that really hard to believe since it seems to go against what everyone is saying in here, especially those that have compared BARBRI % to Emmanuel's %.
Gave me unneeded worry, regardless.


Same. I also talked to a handful of people who said that Barbri questions were right on target for the MBE in July '14. A few said the real questions were harder than Barbri's questions. But all of those people also said they crushed the MBE.


That can't be right. Everyone says Barbri's questions are harder than the real thing - even Barbri.


Honestly, it could be an exact copy of the simulated MBE we just took and many people would feel that it was harder simply because it was the real thing.

ArmyOfficer
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby ArmyOfficer » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:10 pm

charlesxavier wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
corgibutts18 wrote:
jamescastle wrote:I talked to two people this week that took BARBRI for July 2014 and they both said that BARBRI's questions were about the same or easier than the real MBE.
I'm finding that really hard to believe since it seems to go against what everyone is saying in here, especially those that have compared BARBRI % to Emmanuel's %.
Gave me unneeded worry, regardless.


Same. I also talked to a handful of people who said that Barbri questions were right on target for the MBE in July '14. A few said the real questions were harder than Barbri's questions. But all of those people also said they crushed the MBE.


That can't be right. Everyone says Barbri's questions are harder than the real thing - even Barbri.


Honestly, it could be an exact copy of the simulated MBE we just took and many people would feel that it was harder simply because it was the real thing.


Barbri says in the analysis of the simulated MBE that it is harder than the real thing.

mr.hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mr.hands » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:17 pm

The fact that your friends crushed it probably indicates that it wasn't as tough as barbri.

I assume that on test day, people agonize over the 50/50 questions and take longer second guessing themselves, which makes them feel less confident about the test (and makes them think it's harder). I hope that's the case anyway

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charlesxavier
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby charlesxavier » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:19 pm

ArmyOfficer wrote:
charlesxavier wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
corgibutts18 wrote:
jamescastle wrote:I talked to two people this week that took BARBRI for July 2014 and they both said that BARBRI's questions were about the same or easier than the real MBE.
I'm finding that really hard to believe since it seems to go against what everyone is saying in here, especially those that have compared BARBRI % to Emmanuel's %.
Gave me unneeded worry, regardless.


Same. I also talked to a handful of people who said that Barbri questions were right on target for the MBE in July '14. A few said the real questions were harder than Barbri's questions. But all of those people also said they crushed the MBE.


That can't be right. Everyone says Barbri's questions are harder than the real thing - even Barbri.


Honestly, it could be an exact copy of the simulated MBE we just took and many people would feel that it was harder simply because it was the real thing.


Barbri says in the analysis of the simulated MBE that it is harder than the real thing.


No, I'm saying they could give us the same exact questions but they would feel harder because it's the real thing.

Hedgehog25
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Hedgehog25 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:34 pm

RaleighStClair wrote:Anyone who's done the Refresher, did you find the first 50 or second 50 to be particularly harder than the other? Just finished the first 50 and taking a break...just curious.


-14 on the first 50, -13 on the second. No difference for me.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby DesperadoOfColumbia » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:39 pm

kykiske wrote:My current problem is lack of motivation. Pretty burnt out.

I'm lucky if I can get in like, 4 hours of solid studying per day.

I have no clue how my peers are spending 12+ hours in the library each and every day.

I haven't touched most of the Barbri books. So far, I've only opened the lecture book, the MBE practice book, the MEE practice book, the CMR, and the MPT book (very recently).




I did the sim MBE for Barbri (122/200) and Emmanuel (140/200) and I'm worn out. I'm taking a 2 days break. My partner has hidden my material from me to prevent me from doing more questions.

I haven't opened the big book or the MPT book. It doesn't matter. I just do a lot of questions and use the flash cards, and I do it in 3 hour segments. Some people can do 12, if I can do 9 it's basically as long as I can go.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby corgibutts18 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:46 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
corgibutts18 wrote:
jamescastle wrote:I talked to two people this week that took BARBRI for July 2014 and they both said that BARBRI's questions were about the same or easier than the real MBE.
I'm finding that really hard to believe since it seems to go against what everyone is saying in here, especially those that have compared BARBRI % to Emmanuel's %.
Gave me unneeded worry, regardless.


Same. I also talked to a handful of people who said that Barbri questions were right on target for the MBE in July '14. A few said the real questions were harder than Barbri's questions. But all of those people also said they crushed the MBE.


That can't be right. Everyone says Barbri's questions are harder than the real thing - even Barbri.


The Barbri attorney rep for my state also said that Barbri was surprised by the level of difficulty for the July '14 exam. They said it was one of the more difficult exams they had seen. I'm hoping things will be different this time around.... :?

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:49 pm

corgibutts18 wrote:The Barbri attorney rep for my state also said that Barbri was surprised by the level of difficulty for the July '14 exam. They said it was one of the more difficult exams they had seen. I'm hoping things will be different this time around.... :?


From what've heard, July 14' (and Feb 15') MBE had been surprisingly hard across the board, which contributed to a noticeable drop in bar passage rate. I know, not something we as bar takers want to hear..
Last edited by kyle010723 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:51 pm

kyle010723 wrote:
corgibutts18 wrote:That can't be right. Everyone says Barbri's questions are harder than the real thing - even Barbri.


The Barbri attorney rep for my state also said that Barbri was surprised by the level of difficulty for the July '14 exam. They said it was one of the more difficult exams they had seen. I'm hoping things will be different this time around.... :?


From what've heard, July 14' (and Feb 15') MBE had been surprisingly hard across the board, which contributed to a noticeable drop in bar passage rate. I know, not something we as bar takers want to hear..[/quote]

Maybe they'll be like "Ah, those were a little rough. Let's take it easy on those July '15 test takers!"

:wink:

Kage3212
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:52 pm

corgibutts18 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
corgibutts18 wrote:
jamescastle wrote:I talked to two people this week that took BARBRI for July 2014 and they both said that BARBRI's questions were about the same or easier than the real MBE.
I'm finding that really hard to believe since it seems to go against what everyone is saying in here, especially those that have compared BARBRI % to Emmanuel's %.
Gave me unneeded worry, regardless.


Same. I also talked to a handful of people who said that Barbri questions were right on target for the MBE in July '14. A few said the real questions were harder than Barbri's questions. But all of those people also said they crushed the MBE.


That can't be right. Everyone says Barbri's questions are harder than the real thing - even Barbri.


The Barbri attorney rep for my state also said that Barbri was surprised by the level of difficulty for the July '14 exam. They said it was one of the more difficult exams they had seen. I'm hoping things will be different this time around.... :?


Does difficulty really matter though? For example, in PA just about every year (July) approx. 82.5-83% pass on the first try. If its harder for one, its harder for all. But regardless of difficulty, that percentage of first time passers remains relatively constant. I don't really see how difficulty really affects the probable outcome unless you are really skirting that 18th percentile line.

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:54 pm

Hedgehog25 wrote:
RaleighStClair wrote:Anyone who's done the Refresher, did you find the first 50 or second 50 to be particularly harder than the other? Just finished the first 50 and taking a break...just curious.


-14 on the first 50, -13 on the second. No difference for me.


Word. I did slightly better on the first half, but not by much. How did that compare to your Midterm?

Mine was 5% higher than the midterm simulated one. Just wondering if the 57% average thing for this one is for real.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:10 pm

Does anyone know if there's a difference between BarBri's "Goal" scores and an average score?

I did the practice full day exam today and scored a little better than the goal score but I'm not sure if that means I'm barely above average or if the goal has some other, entirely different meaning (eg., passing in nearly every jurisdiction, etc.)




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