BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:03 pm

Even when I do well on something like BarBri's full day MBE I just don't know if that's a good thing or not because BarBri just makes shit up lol

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MTBike
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby MTBike » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:27 pm

Cant make any fucking progress. Been studying my ass off all summer and still got 50% on the MBE refresher today. Same as my simulated MBE a month ago. I seem to get questions wrong because I think of previous Barbri explanations for questions I did in the past. Are these questions unreal hard or am I just fucked?

Barbro
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Barbro » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:38 pm

MTBike wrote:Cant make any fucking progress. Been studying my ass off all summer and still got 50% on the MBE refresher today. Same as my simulated MBE a month ago. I seem to get questions wrong because I think of previous Barbri explanations for questions I did in the past. Are these questions unreal hard or am I just fucked?


That's not that far below target, which I think was 57%? Counting in the bump people seem to get from Barbri to real MBE questions, you should be fine. Still 2 weeks to go!

kykiske
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kykiske » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:56 pm

MTBike wrote:Cant make any fucking progress. Been studying my ass off all summer and still got 50% on the MBE refresher today. Same as my simulated MBE a month ago. I seem to get questions wrong because I think of previous Barbri explanations for questions I did in the past. Are these questions unreal hard or am I just fucked?


I feel ya man. But we need to simply push forward these next two weeks.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've gotten to the point where after reading the MBE's questions, I either: (1) immediately know the right answer; or (2) immediately cut out two wrong answers.

For the latter questions, it really comes down to a guess. Sometimes I guess right, other times I guess wrong.

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MTBike
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby MTBike » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:07 pm

kykiske wrote:
For the latter questions, it really comes down to a guess. Sometimes I guess right, other times 90% of the time I guess wrong.


This is my problem lol I WISH it were 50/50 on my guesses

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N.P.H.
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby N.P.H. » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:07 pm

MTBike wrote:Cant make any fucking progress. Been studying my ass off all summer and still got 50% on the MBE refresher today. Same as my simulated MBE a month ago. I seem to get questions wrong because I think of previous Barbri explanations for questions I did in the past. Are these questions unreal hard or am I just fucked?


What helped me was long, painful re-readings of the outlines. Was having the same issue before I did that. Worth a shot.

jamescastle
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby jamescastle » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:08 pm

I talked to two people this week that took BARBRI for July 2014 and they both said that BARBRI's questions were about the same or easier than the real MBE.
I'm finding that really hard to believe since it seems to go against what everyone is saying in here, especially those that have compared BARBRI % to Emmanuel's %.
Gave me unneeded worry, regardless.

diowad
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby diowad » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:09 pm

MTBike wrote:
kykiske wrote:
For the latter questions, it really comes down to a guess. Sometimes I guess right, other times 90% of the time I guess wrong.


This is my problem lol I WISH it were 50/50 on my guesses


Word. My score would easily be 10 points better if my 50/50 guessing didn't suck so bad

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N.P.H.
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby N.P.H. » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:10 pm

jamescastle wrote:I talked to two people this week that took BARBRI for July 2014 and they both said that BARBRI's questions were about the same or easier than the real MBE.
I'm finding that really hard to believe since it seems to go against what everyone is saying in here, especially those that have compared BARBRI % to Emmanuel's %.
Gave me unneeded worry, regardless.


Barbri has different difficulty categories.

It's possible that the people saying it's easier are comparing with Barbri's hard or that people saying Barbri is the same are comparing with Barbri's easy.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:11 pm

Does anyone know if it is possible to lose points on an essay? In other words, if in the middle of a contracts essay I say that a contract is only valid if both parties are U.S. citizens do I lose points?

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:13 pm

Barbri's problem sets are not designed for you to show improvement. It's not like if you study your ass off for a month you'll go from 50% to 90%, just like how you can't become Jeopardy champion after studying "trivia" for a month. The system is designed to induce panic so you'll overstudy, and in my opinion is a waste of time at this point . Anyone who got around median on the midterm is going to pass so comfortably they'll wonder why they wasted so much time worrying about those ridiculous problem sets. Study state essays instead.

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:17 pm

jamescastle wrote:I talked to two people this week that took BARBRI for July 2014 and they both said that BARBRI's questions were about the same or easier than the real MBE.
I'm finding that really hard to believe since it seems to go against what everyone is saying in here, especially those that have compared BARBRI % to Emmanuel's %.
Gave me unneeded worry, regardless.


Not everyone thinks the real thing is easier, but most do. I just finished all the questions in Emanuel and while I do think it's easier than Barbri, they are also written from a different perspective. I'd say the real questions test less comprehensiveness of your knowledge and more general reasoning ability. The law being tested is simpler, but arriving at the right answer requires a different kind of thinking than Barbri. I can't recommend enough how helpful the crim law, torts, and property material in Emanuel has been.

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941law
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 941law » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:17 pm

charlesxavier wrote:
Anybody else certain they would fail if they followed barbri's schedule? At this point if I know the rules my essays are similar to the models. However, a troubling amount of the time I'm blanking out. I need to stop writing and start memorizing.


What makes you say that? Just these July assignments? I'm sure if someone did 100% of Barbri via their schedule that they would pass. I'm not the biggest fan of the schedule, But I'd imagine it would get the job done.

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:26 pm

With essays, I've pretty much given up looking over notes and trying to memorize all the elements. I actually think that's a bad idea. Instead, I just spend all my time reading the prompts, thinking about the answer, then reading the sample answer. I think the idea is not so much to get all the elements right but to reproduce the general tone, flavor, and organization of the model answers. The Barbri video makes a great point about how to deal with blackouts. If you don't know a rule the normal instinct is to panic because on a LS exam that's not good, but on the bar you can easily BS your way to passing by making up a rule and asserting it with confidence. Judging by the released model answers on my state's website, this is definitely true. The passing essays often had wrong rules but sounded reasonable and correct. It's more about reproducing the same structure, tone, and rhetoric than knowing the rules.

victortsoi
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby victortsoi » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:33 pm

Neff wrote:With essays, I've pretty much given up looking over notes and trying to memorize all the elements. I actually think that's a bad idea. Instead, I just spend all my time reading the prompts, thinking about the answer, then reading the sample answer. I think the idea is not so much to get all the elements right but to reproduce the general tone, flavor, and organization of the model answers. The Barbri video makes a great point about how to deal with blackouts. If you don't know a rule the normal instinct is to panic because on a LS exam that's not good, but on the bar you can easily BS your way to passing by making up a rule and asserting it with confidence. Judging by the released model answers on my state's website, this is definitely true. The passing essays often had wrong rules but sounded reasonable and correct. It's more about reproducing the same structure, tone, and rhetoric than knowing the rules.



can you? my main issue with barbri essays is that there is ONLY ONE GRADING RUBRIC. There is no way to gauge whether or not you'd get points for writing something wrong. For example, in torts essay 4, which i just skimmed, there was a situation where a repo man was towing some guys car away and then fought him. So I was thinking liability of boss for agents torts, etc etc, battery, etc etc, and because it was the dudes car i was thinking trespass to chattels. I was wrong, there was a tresspass to land in the model answer since the repo man walked onto the property. If I had just had a brainfart, and wrote a perfect statement of tresspass to chattels instead, would I get points? Not according to barbri's rubric...

Barbro
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Barbro » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:34 pm

941law wrote:
charlesxavier wrote:
Anybody else certain they would fail if they followed barbri's schedule? At this point if I know the rules my essays are similar to the models. However, a troubling amount of the time I'm blanking out. I need to stop writing and start memorizing.


What makes you say that? Just these July assignments? I'm sure if someone did 100% of Barbri via their schedule that they would pass. I'm not the biggest fan of the schedule, But I'd imagine it would get the job done.


I'm at 92% and still feel like I don't know jack sh*t. Barbri is terrifying.

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:36 pm

Neff wrote:With essays, I've pretty much given up looking over notes and trying to memorize all the elements. I actually think that's a bad idea. Instead, I just spend all my time reading the prompts, thinking about the answer, then reading the sample answer. I think the idea is not so much to get all the elements right but to reproduce the general tone, flavor, and organization of the model answers. The Barbri video makes a great point about how to deal with blackouts. If you don't know a rule the normal instinct is to panic because on a LS exam that's not good, but on the bar you can easily BS your way to passing by making up a rule and asserting it with confidence. Judging by the released model answers on my state's website, this is definitely true. The passing essays often had wrong rules but sounded reasonable and correct. It's more about reproducing the same structure, tone, and rhetoric than knowing the rules.


I would like to believe this, but how is this possibly true when we know the graders grade according to some pre-determined matrix. Just as an example, Barbri's grading charts (which I know aren't the real thing) leave no room to get ANY points if you don't hit what's on the chart.

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charlesxavier
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby charlesxavier » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:39 pm

941law wrote:
charlesxavier wrote:
Anybody else certain they would fail if they followed barbri's schedule? At this point if I know the rules my essays are similar to the models. However, a troubling amount of the time I'm blanking out. I need to stop writing and start memorizing.


What makes you say that? Just these July assignments? I'm sure if someone did 100% of Barbri via their schedule that they would pass. I'm not the biggest fan of the schedule, But I'd imagine it would get the job done.


I guess I meant if you only did what Barbri assigned. In my mind it's way too little. I'm on schedule at 76% and had to abandon today. In my state the MBE is only 1/3 and I feel like the schedule is geared towards MBE prep. For example today they wanted me to spend 2 hours reviewing civ pro and do a single essay and MPQ set 5. Up until now it's all been fed civ pro for the MBE, but Ohio Civ pro is significantly different.

mr.hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mr.hands » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:40 pm

victortsoi wrote:
Neff wrote:With essays, I've pretty much given up looking over notes and trying to memorize all the elements. I actually think that's a bad idea. Instead, I just spend all my time reading the prompts, thinking about the answer, then reading the sample answer. I think the idea is not so much to get all the elements right but to reproduce the general tone, flavor, and organization of the model answers. The Barbri video makes a great point about how to deal with blackouts. If you don't know a rule the normal instinct is to panic because on a LS exam that's not good, but on the bar you can easily BS your way to passing by making up a rule and asserting it with confidence. Judging by the released model answers on my state's website, this is definitely true. The passing essays often had wrong rules but sounded reasonable and correct. It's more about reproducing the same structure, tone, and rhetoric than knowing the rules.



can you? my main issue with barbri essays is that there is ONLY ONE GRADING RUBRIC. There is no way to gauge whether or not you'd get points for writing something wrong. For example, in torts essay 4, which i just skimmed, there was a situation where a repo man was towing some guys car away and then fought him. So I was thinking liability of boss for agents torts, etc etc, battery, etc etc, and because it was the dudes car i was thinking trespass to chattels. I was wrong, there was a tresspass to land in the model answer since the repo man walked onto the property. If I had just had a brainfart, and wrote a perfect statement of tresspass to chattels instead, would I get points? Not according to barbri's rubric...


Given that pass rates for most states are in the 70s, Im sure that people do this all the time. People write about different things and still get points. I have a hard time thinking that you wouldn't have gotten credit on the actual bar exam (at least I hope that's the case)

DportIA
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby DportIA » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:42 pm

I would not take BARBRI again and I did not even have to pay for it. It is legitimately awful. Buy filled-in lecture hand outs (probably on ebay), used state essay book (they are definitely $40 on ebay), and buy the Emanuel's MBE book. Success, for around $200--and you drilled on real questions.

cdelgado
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby cdelgado » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:46 pm

charlesxavier wrote:
941law wrote:
charlesxavier wrote:
Anybody else certain they would fail if they followed barbri's schedule? At this point if I know the rules my essays are similar to the models. However, a troubling amount of the time I'm blanking out. I need to stop writing and start memorizing.


What makes you say that? Just these July assignments? I'm sure if someone did 100% of Barbri via their schedule that they would pass. I'm not the biggest fan of the schedule, But I'd imagine it would get the job done.


I guess I meant if you only did what Barbri assigned. In my mind it's way too little. I'm on schedule at 76% and had to abandon today. In my state the MBE is only 1/3 and I feel like the schedule is geared towards MBE prep. For example today they wanted me to spend 2 hours reviewing civ pro and do a single essay and MPQ set 5. Up until now it's all been fed civ pro for the MBE, but Ohio Civ pro is significantly different.

I'm in complete agreement. It is too little for states that focus more on essays.

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:48 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
Neff wrote:With essays, I've pretty much given up looking over notes and trying to memorize all the elements. I actually think that's a bad idea. Instead, I just spend all my time reading the prompts, thinking about the answer, then reading the sample answer. I think the idea is not so much to get all the elements right but to reproduce the general tone, flavor, and organization of the model answers. The Barbri video makes a great point about how to deal with blackouts. If you don't know a rule the normal instinct is to panic because on a LS exam that's not good, but on the bar you can easily BS your way to passing by making up a rule and asserting it with confidence. Judging by the released model answers on my state's website, this is definitely true. The passing essays often had wrong rules but sounded reasonable and correct. It's more about reproducing the same structure, tone, and rhetoric than knowing the rules.


I would like to believe this, but how is this possibly true when we know the graders grade according to some pre-determined matrix. Just as an example, Barbri's grading charts (which I know aren't the real thing) leave no room to get ANY points if you don't hit what's on the chart.


The problem is that Barbri's rubric bears no relation to the real thing. The real rubric in my state (TX) does not care about getting the rules exactly right because their posted MODEL ANSWERS (i.e. the very best of bunch) often flat out state the wrong rule. I think this is also the case in other states because the Barbri video (which I assume is made for all states -- but could be wrong) explicitly says getting the right rule is good but not crucial in passing. Barbri grades essays so harshly because, again, it's just part of its overall strategy to induce panic/overstudying.

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941law
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 941law » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:48 pm

Barbro wrote:
I'm at 92% and still feel like I don't know jack sh*t. Barbri is terrifying.

Maybe so, but it remains to be seen how well you will do on the bar - thus my point. When did you start Barbri?

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charlesxavier
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby charlesxavier » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:49 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
Neff wrote:With essays, I've pretty much given up looking over notes and trying to memorize all the elements. I actually think that's a bad idea. Instead, I just spend all my time reading the prompts, thinking about the answer, then reading the sample answer. I think the idea is not so much to get all the elements right but to reproduce the general tone, flavor, and organization of the model answers. The Barbri video makes a great point about how to deal with blackouts. If you don't know a rule the normal instinct is to panic because on a LS exam that's not good, but on the bar you can easily BS your way to passing by making up a rule and asserting it with confidence. Judging by the released model answers on my state's website, this is definitely true. The passing essays often had wrong rules but sounded reasonable and correct. It's more about reproducing the same structure, tone, and rhetoric than knowing the rules.


I would like to believe this, but how is this possibly true when we know the graders grade according to some pre-determined matrix. Just as an example, Barbri's grading charts (which I know aren't the real thing) leave no room to get ANY points if you don't hit what's on the chart.


This is where I'm confused. I'm sure it depends on the state, but my Barbri state essay workshop made the essays grading seem more subjective. They even gave a breakdown of what the state suggests the score distribution look like. A 7 (top score) is a perfect paper based on barbri's rubric but on the bar a 7 is the best paper. They actually went over a few essays and said this might be a 4 but after reading this one it will be bumped to a 3. They also mentioned the bar graders doing mock sessions where they circulate several papers, grade them, compare scores, and get in sync. However, Barbri provided a very rigid scoring rubric.

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:51 pm

DportIA wrote:I would not take BARBRI again and I did not even have to pay for it. It is legitimately awful. Buy filled-in lecture hand outs (probably on ebay), used state essay book (they are definitely $40 on ebay), and buy the Emanuel's MBE book. Success, for around $200--and you drilled on real questions.


Agreed, and I also didn't pay for Barbri. It's clear that they put most of their efforts into the MBE (which is cost-effective, since 49 states administer the MBE), and then make a token effort at the state subjects (which is much less cost-effective for them, since every state is different). I am not a lazy, complacent person, and I don't need to be inordinately scared into preparing for the exam. What I need is to feel confident that I'm prepared, and Barbri has not at all helped me to feel confident on the state subjects.




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