BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:27 pm

I don't know if you would get points for an accord explanation. It's not very clear. I'm going to try to figure this out...

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3|ink
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:30 pm

I haven't seen that essay (my state does its own thing), but doesn't there have to be a dispute over the debt before there can be an accord and satisfaction? The consideration is the resolution of the dispute, or so I thought.

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Killingly
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Killingly » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:31 pm

RaleighStClair wrote:I don't know if you would get points for an accord explanation. It's not very clear. I'm going to try to figure this out...


Thanks, because it's driving me bananas. I read the question and was LIKE OH YEAH I KNOW THIS and then I read the model answer. It seems clearly accord/satisfaction situation to me, but idk.

How do you tell the difference between a modification and accord/satisfaction maybe that's my main issue.

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Killingly
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Killingly » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:35 pm

3|ink wrote:I haven't seen that essay (my state does its own thing), but doesn't there have to be a dispute over the debt before there can be an accord and satisfaction? The consideration is the resolution of the dispute, or so I thought.


I didn't think that always had to be the case but maybe I'm totally wrong. Critical Pass just says agreement to accept difference performance in satisfaction of the existing obligation.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:37 pm

Killingly wrote:Essays.

Kill me.

Here's to hoping that everyone in my state is more retarded than I am.

Also - does anyone know if you can do an accord and satisfaction for part of a preexisting contract? Like K to pay $20k for five years then on day someone is like just pay me $15k for this year and you're all good. Is that not an accord and satisfaction?


That was modification of contract. If I remember that question correctly, the parties intended to modify the contract. And because it was a service contract under common law, pre-existing duty applies. However, because one agreed to pay early and the other agreed to take $15,000, there was consideration for the modification.

Edited to include:

For an accord and satisfaction to take place, there must be (1) a dispute as to the amount owned and (2) one must send the other a payment that says "Payment in Full". Neither of these was the case in that question.
Last edited by kyle010723 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:39 pm

A modification changes the legal duty. An accord substitutes a different duty that can replace the first one, but doesn't actually do so until the satisfaction occurs.

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Killingly
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Killingly » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:39 pm

kyle010723 wrote:
Killingly wrote:Essays.

Kill me.

Here's to hoping that everyone in my state is more retarded than I am.

Also - does anyone know if you can do an accord and satisfaction for part of a preexisting contract? Like K to pay $20k for five years then on day someone is like just pay me $15k for this year and you're all good. Is that not an accord and satisfaction?


That was modification of contract. If I remember that question correctly, the parties intended to modify the contract. And because it was a service contract under common law, pre-existing duty applies. However, because one agreed to pay early and the other agreed to take $15,000, there was consideration for the modification.


RIght, but why is it not an accord without satisfaction? See above convo.

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3|ink
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:40 pm

Killingly wrote:
3|ink wrote:I haven't seen that essay (my state does its own thing), but doesn't there have to be a dispute over the debt before there can be an accord and satisfaction? The consideration is the resolution of the dispute, or so I thought.


I didn't think that always had to be the case but maybe I'm totally wrong. Critical Pass just says agreement to accept difference performance in satisfaction of the existing obligation.

Yeah critical pass glosses over a lot of things. I think this is one of the lessons I learned the hard way from one of the MPQs.

The CMR has it on page 56-57. Partial Payment of an original debt - "The majority view is that this will suffice for an accord and satisfaction if there is a bona fide dispute" as to the claim or there is otherwise some alteration, even if slight in the debtor's consideration."

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Killingly
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Killingly » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:40 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:A modification changes the legal duty. An accord substitutes a different duty that can replace the first one, but doesn't actually do so until the satisfaction occurs.


So it has to be totally different? Can't be different amount of cash?

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:41 pm

Killingly wrote:RIght, but why is it not an accord without satisfaction? See above convo.


The problem there was there was no pre-existing debt, the payment was not due for another 8 month.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:44 pm

Killingly wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:A modification changes the legal duty. An accord substitutes a different duty that can replace the first one, but doesn't actually do so until the satisfaction occurs.


So it has to be totally different? Can't be different amount of cash?

I think it can be a different amount of cash because some of the MPQ's have said when someone disputes a charge and sends a check for a lesser amount marked "payment in full" it's an accord and satisfaction if the other guy cashes the check. Which makes it seem like if it's a different amount of cash it'll need to be a disputed amount.

With an accord and satisfaction the guy owed the money can sue on either the accord or the original agreement if the accord is not satisfied. So it would be kind of weird to have a 20k payment, then agree to just take 15k but then be able to sue for the full 20k if the 15k never shows up. With a modification once it's modified you can only sue for the new number.

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BVest
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby BVest » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:11 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:Can anyone explain the practical difference between an Assignment, a Delegation, and a Novation? I understand the legal effects of each, but I can't seem to distinguish them on fact patterns. NY if it matters.


An assignment gives away your legal right to a third party. A delegation gives away your legal obligation to a third party. A novation relieves someone of their legal obligation to you.

e.g.

You are a tenant. Your landlord owes you duties such as possession, duty to repair, maintain habitability, etc. (thus you have a right to those). You can assign your lease (and thus the rights that come with it) to a new party.

You are a landlord. Your tenant owes you rent; even if he assigns his lease, he still owes you rent if the assignee doesn't pay, due to privity of K. You can give him a novation though, and that relieves the tenant of his obligation to you. If you give him the novation and the assignee fails to pay, you have no recourse against the tenant.

Delegation comes up more in straight K law. For example Homeowner hires Painter A to repaint house. Painter A gets a better paying job the next day, and therefore hires Painter B to paint Homeowners house, delegating the obligation to Painter B. (Note that Painter A is still liable unless Homeowner provides a novation).

Blue Ivy
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Blue Ivy » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:15 pm

I need help with hearsay. I keep missing the Barbri MBE Qs on hearsay. Any advice?

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:18 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Killingly wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:A modification changes the legal duty. An accord substitutes a different duty that can replace the first one, but doesn't actually do so until the satisfaction occurs.


So it has to be totally different? Can't be different amount of cash?

I think it can be a different amount of cash because some of the MPQ's have said when someone disputes a charge and sends a check for a lesser amount marked "payment in full" it's an accord and satisfaction if the other guy cashes the check. Which makes it seem like if it's a different amount of cash it'll need to be a disputed amount.

With an accord and satisfaction the guy owed the money can sue on either the accord or the original agreement if the accord is not satisfied. So it would be kind of weird to have a 20k payment, then agree to just take 15k but then be able to sue for the full 20k if the 15k never shows up. With a modification once it's modified you can only sue for the new number.


For an accord and satisfaction, there has to be consideration. There has to be something other than just paying less than you're obligated to perform. The consideration for the accord could be agreeing to furnish a different type of consideration ("Instead of paying me the $300 in stocks, you can pay me $200 cash), an agreement to pay a third-party instead of the original promisee, or in the context of a satisfying a debt, to pay early or to pay a lesser amount if the debt is bona fide disputed.

DesperadoOfColumbia
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby DesperadoOfColumbia » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:19 pm

Blue Ivy wrote:I need help with hearsay. I keep missing the Barbri MBE Qs on hearsay. Any advice?


Do you have like a more specific question that you have trouble with? The analysis begins with "whether the statement is offered for the truth of the matter asserted or not" and "who is the declarant". But we need a bit more in order to really help you. Examples are I think the best way to learn these things.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:20 pm

Blue Ivy wrote:I need help with hearsay. I keep missing the Barbri MBE Qs on hearsay. Any advice?

Did you watch the simulated exam review for evidence? The guy gives a great breakdown of everything you need to know.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby DesperadoOfColumbia » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:21 pm

dwyf wrote:I have 145 overdue items in 'my assignments' and 52 outstanding homework assignments


31 homework, 70 overdue, 58% so far, fuck it, all the numbers do is psych me out.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:40 pm

If the Barbri Half-Day Essay grading rubric is accurate, without giving any partial credit and by following the rubric to a t, I just failed the bar miserable regardless of MBE. haha... Oh well, back to the books.

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Danger Zone
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:44 pm

Blue Ivy wrote:I need help with hearsay. I keep missing the Barbri MBE Qs on hearsay. Any advice?

Read this thread

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:04 pm

Danger Zone wrote:
Blue Ivy wrote:I need help with hearsay. I keep missing the Barbri MBE Qs on hearsay. Any advice?

Read this thread


Haha, this is amazing.

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BearState
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby BearState » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:16 pm

And, per MPQ set 5, (apparently) engravings about family history on old family Bibles are not hearsay. Of course! So obvious!

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Learned Throw Hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Learned Throw Hands » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:18 pm

kyle010723 wrote:If the Barbri Half-Day Essay grading rubric is accurate, without giving any partial credit and by following the rubric to a t, I just failed the bar miserable regardless of MBE. haha... Oh well, back to the books.

Whenever I grade out of the MEET the rubric puts me at slightly below passing or below passing. I've written probably 20 essays at this point and I've passed maybe 6 or 7.

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Learned Throw Hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Learned Throw Hands » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:19 pm

BearState wrote:And, per MPQ set 5, (apparently) engravings about family history on old family Bibles are not hearsay. Of course! So obvious!

I pretty much buried my MPQ book after that question. I'll do the mixed sets and the refresher but I'm not fucking with sets 5 and 6 anymore they're a waste of time.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:23 pm

BearState wrote:And, per MPQ set 5, (apparently) engravings about family history on old family Bibles are not hearsay. Of course! So obvious!


Yea, I debated long and hard about whether that was "ancient document," decided against it and that was a bad idea.

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:43 pm

BearState wrote:And, per MPQ set 5, (apparently) engravings about family history on old family Bibles are not hearsay. Of course! So obvious!


There's a specific hearsay exception for this (the "family records" exception)




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