BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

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Killingly
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Killingly » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:49 pm

Is anyone else really bad at practicing the essays?

I end up semi-outlining, then just reading their outline/model answer.

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rinkrat19
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:55 pm

Killingly wrote:Is anyone else really bad at practicing the essays?

I end up semi-outlining, then just reading their outline/model answer.

I got a 2 on a graded essay I wrote with the Leansheet outline open in front of me. That bodes well.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:59 pm

Killingly wrote:Is anyone else really bad at practicing the essays?

I end up semi-outlining, then just reading their outline/model answer.


For topics that I know something about, I can write a reasonable answer that is more or less in line with the model answer. For other topics, I essentially blank out, need to peek at model answers, and hopefully regurgitate.

Although I did find that on topics I knew about, I automatically followed Barbri's format:

Yes, [X] is liable for [this]. The issue here is [issue].

[Rule]

Here, [Analysis]. Therefore, [Conclusion].

Like I used those precise wordings, which is not what I usually do in my law school exams or legal writing.

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:11 pm

Another unsolicited PSA: If you did average or above average on the midterm, you're in great shape. I just don't think it's worth it to butt heads with the later Barbri problem sets. Study state subjects instead. If you're still paranoid about MBE, just do some Emanuel questions. The real property and crim law questions in E are significantly different from Barbri's fake shit and really are worth doing IMO.

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BVest
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby BVest » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:21 pm

kyle010723 wrote:For topics that I know something about, I can write a reasonable answer that is more or less in line with the model answer. For other topics, I essentially blank out, need to peek at model answers, and hopefully regurgitate.

Although I did find that on topics I knew about, I automatically followed Barbri's format:

Yes, [X] is liable for [this]. The issue here is [issue].

[Rule]

Here, [Analysis]. Therefore, [Conclusion].

Like I used those precise wordings, which is not what I usually do in my law school exams or legal writing.


I generally follow that pattern, though sometimes I'll throw in "Under Texas law" or "Under Texas [whatever] code" which is just a little freebie since some of the subjects fall entirely under a single code (such as Texas Estates Code).

RaleighStClair wrote:
BVest wrote:
http://www.ble.state.tx.us/MainPage/examinfo.htm (selected answers tab)


I'm not in Texas, but these questions scare me. How many state-specific subjects do you guys have?


12 essay questions (40%):
2 Real Property, including Oil & Gas
2 UCC articles 2, 3, 9 (Contracts, Commercial Paper, and/or Secured Credit)
2 Business Associations
2 Wills & Estates
2 Family Law including Community Property
1 Trusts or Guardianship
1 Consumer Law
Additional crossover subjects that may be included in the above are Bankruptcy, Income Tax, Estate/Gift Tax


40 short answer (10%):
20 Tex Civ Pro/Evidence
20 Tex Crim Pro/Evidence


(Plus MBE 40% and 1 single MPT question 10%)

diowad
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby diowad » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:26 pm

That sounds really shitty and I'm glad I'm not doing Texas lol

mr.hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mr.hands » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:29 pm

diowad wrote:That sounds really shitty and I'm glad I'm not doing Texas lol


Texas sounds awful. It's just too many subjects. Ugh

In SC, essays make up 6/7ths of the exam. Insurance counts as much as the entire MBE

It's also a 3 day exam. I'd rather take just about any other state

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acronyx
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby acronyx » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:30 pm

Killingly wrote:Is anyone else really bad at practicing the essays?

I end up semi-outlining, then just reading their outline/model answer.

This is actually what I intentionally do. I know a lot of the stuff pretty well -- how much will it help me to write out the SoF again and again? Instead, I'll just bullet: "SoF - 5y" and move on. I'd rather read their essay and see what important points I missed.

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BVest
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby BVest » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:33 pm

Killingly wrote:Is anyone else really bad at practicing the essays?

I end up semi-outlining, then just reading their outline/model answer.


I start out intending to just outline and end up handwriting the entire essays.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:33 pm

Whenever I semi-outline I miss a bunch of stuff so I'm just writing them all out for the most part. Still only taking like 20-30 minutes per so I'm not writing everything I should be but I feel that I come up with most of my ideas as I write.

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charlesxavier
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby charlesxavier » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:39 pm

BVest wrote:
Killingly wrote:Is anyone else really bad at practicing the essays?

I end up semi-outlining, then just reading their outline/model answer.


I start out intending to just outline and end up handwriting the entire essays.


Exact same thing happens to me. I've started outlining on my computer because I'm afraid of wasting time.

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:44 pm

So according to Barbri's latest frequency chart for Illinois, which they just posted. Admin has never been tested in the last 10 years and surety was tested once in the 10 years. Pretty safe to just disregard those two topics right...

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3|ink
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:45 pm

kyle010723 wrote:So according to Barbri's latest frequency chart for Illinois, which they just posted. Admin has never been tested in the last 10 years and surety was tested once in the 10 years. Pretty safe to just disregard those two topics right...

Can I ask where this was posted?

atticus89
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby atticus89 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:47 pm

xlawschoolhopefulx wrote:
charlesxavier wrote:So, I asked my professor what a failing essay looked like. She sent me one from a few years ago.

It was basically:

Question 1: Rule (wrong rule) then analysis (bare minimum applied wrong rule incorrectly)

Question 2: Rule (Q asked for elements of self-defense and they only stated when retreat is required) Analysis (applied facts to when deadly force is allowed).

And then for the second part of question 2: All they said- I'm not aware of this defense so it's not valid and court shouldn't instruct the jury on it.


I hear what everyone is saying here about how it is really hard to fail the essays. Yet according to Barbri, I have been below passing (think 35-50 point range, with 52+ as passing) on every single essay, including the ones I did open book. So, just to confirm - is this another one of Barbri's scare tactics? Or do we think that even doing these essays open book I am somehow managing to fail to write something sensical that a bar examiner would say is passing? (Really hoping it's the former).


I feel like I haven't had a really solid answer on this yet either. I submitted an Evidence essay for grading that was ~2300 words. Evidence questions tend to be race-horse types and this one qualified -- it was 5 subquestions, so multiple relevance discussions, multiple hearsay issues, etc etc. There must have been 15+ issues to discuss over the whole answer. I got all of them except I believe 2 hearsay exceptions for one of the sub-parts. The grader told me that my 1-hour 2300 word essay was a 60 (which is below passing in my jx, passing is ~62) and it was "leaning too close to being a 55," which is a clear fail response.

Note that there was no substantive feedback other than I missed 2 small issues. The grader also told me to 'break relevance down into separate subheadings for logical and legal relevance as demonstrated in the sample answer' -- the sample answer did not break down relevance in this way. I discussed both in separate paragraphs with clear topic sentences, but apparently not breaking it down into more subheadings was enough to make my essay nearly a clear fail (even though the sample answer didn't do this).

kyle010723
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:48 pm

3|ink wrote:Can I ask where this was posted?


Under Information/Help, the circle exclamation mark icon on PSP.

Correction, admin was tested once in 10 years.

kmp127
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kmp127 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:48 pm

BVest wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:For topics that I know something about, I can write a reasonable answer that is more or less in line with the model answer. For other topics, I essentially blank out, need to peek at model answers, and hopefully regurgitate.

Although I did find that on topics I knew about, I automatically followed Barbri's format:

Yes, [X] is liable for [this]. The issue here is [issue].

[Rule]

Here, [Analysis]. Therefore, [Conclusion].

Like I used those precise wordings, which is not what I usually do in my law school exams or legal writing.


I generally follow that pattern, though sometimes I'll throw in "Under Texas law" or "Under Texas [whatever] code" which is just a little freebie since some of the subjects fall entirely under a single code (such as Texas Estates Code).

RaleighStClair wrote:
BVest wrote:
http://www.ble.state.tx.us/MainPage/examinfo.htm (selected answers tab)


I'm not in Texas, but these questions scare me. How many state-specific subjects do you guys have?


12 essay questions (40%):
2 Real Property, including Oil & Gas
2 UCC articles 2, 3, 9 (Contracts, Commercial Paper, and/or Secured Credit)
2 Business Associations
2 Wills & Estates
2 Family Law including Community Property
1 Trusts or Guardianship
1 Consumer Law
Additional crossover subjects that may be included in the above are Bankruptcy, Income Tax, Estate/Gift Tax


40 short answer (10%):
20 Tex Civ Pro/Evidence
20 Tex Crim Pro/Evidence


(Plus MBE 40% and 1 single MPT question 10%)


TX makes it so it's impossible to ever really learn any subject. I'm at capacity... and haven't touched 8 state subjects in over a month.

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:51 pm

BVest wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:For topics that I know something about, I can write a reasonable answer that is more or less in line with the model answer. For other topics, I essentially blank out, need to peek at model answers, and hopefully regurgitate.

Although I did find that on topics I knew about, I automatically followed Barbri's format:

Yes, [X] is liable for [this]. The issue here is [issue].

[Rule]

Here, [Analysis]. Therefore, [Conclusion].

Like I used those precise wordings, which is not what I usually do in my law school exams or legal writing.


I generally follow that pattern, though sometimes I'll throw in "Under Texas law" or "Under Texas [whatever] code" which is just a little freebie since some of the subjects fall entirely under a single code (such as Texas Estates Code).

RaleighStClair wrote:
BVest wrote:
http://www.ble.state.tx.us/MainPage/examinfo.htm (selected answers tab)


I'm not in Texas, but these questions scare me. How many state-specific subjects do you guys have?


12 essay questions (40%):
2 Real Property, including Oil & Gas
2 UCC articles 2, 3, 9 (Contracts, Commercial Paper, and/or Secured Credit)
2 Business Associations
2 Wills & Estates
2 Family Law including Community Property
1 Trusts or Guardianship
1 Consumer Law
Additional crossover subjects that may be included in the above are Bankruptcy, Income Tax, Estate/Gift Tax


40 short answer (10%):
20 Tex Civ Pro/Evidence
20 Tex Crim Pro/Evidence


(Plus MBE 40% and 1 single MPT question 10%)


I've spent the last few days studying TX essays, and I feel like the hard subjects are going to be property/o&g, UCC, and wills. There's a lot of material covered in those and the prompts are hard to BS. BA questions are quite predictable (basically only a small handful of fact patterns), and if you took BA or corporations in LS, should be a cakewalk. Consumer law and family law are also quite easy to BS since the rules are mostly intuitive. Haven't started looking over trust/guardianship yet. I don't even know if it's worth it to study the crossover topics. (Didn't they say income tax hasn't been tested for like 10-15 years?)

Crim/Civ P&E has a ton of material as well, haven't really looked into those yet.

Right now I've just been reading prompts and sample answers. I haven't written out that many essays because they are so time-consuming. I find it's much more efficient to just read prompts, think about what I'm going to write, and read the answers, because I feel like I'm learning a lot that way in a short amount of time. Also, if I try to write I usually end up procrastinating big time. Reading at least gets me working.

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3|ink
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:10 pm

Killingly wrote:Is anyone else really bad at practicing the essays?

I end up semi-outlining, then just reading their outline/model answer.

I attempt to write out the whole thing because I need to practice writing out things I find obvious. I have a bad habit of omitting obvious points.

jamescastle
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby jamescastle » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:13 pm

Concerning Texas and the "Trusts or Guardianship" essay:

What are the odds on favorite? Has it been guardianship the last three years? I think Johanson said so but I'm unsure if that included whatever was tested in February 2015 or not.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:18 pm

3|ink wrote: I have a bad habit of omitting obvious points.


I lose so many points because of this. I almost want to just begin with: "This essay incorporates all of the above facts"

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BVest
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby BVest » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:23 pm

jamescastle wrote:Concerning Texas and the "Trusts or Guardianship" essay:

What are the odds on favorite? Has it been guardianship the last three years? I think Johanson said so but I'm unsure if that included whatever was tested in February 2015 or not.


Feb was guardianship. See Question 11.

http://www.ble.state.tx.us/pdfs/Past%20 ... Feb_PM.pdf

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3|ink
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:23 pm

Dumb question:

Say a third party is properly impleaded in a diversity case. Can the third party sue the underlying plaintiff (for something arising out of the same T/O) even if the third party and plaintiff are citizens of the same state? That is, the limitation for supplemental jurisdiction only applies to claims brought by the underlying plaintiff, right?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:24 pm

3|ink wrote:Dumb question:

Say a third party is properly impleaded in a diversity case. Can the third party sue the underlying plaintiff (for something arising out of the same T/O) even if the third party and plaintiff are citizens of the same state? That is, the limitation for supplemental jurisdiction only applies to claims brought by the underlying plaintiff, right?

Yep. Only plaintiff can't use supplemental jurisdiction to get around diversity.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:25 pm

3|ink wrote:Dumb question:

Say a third party is properly impleaded in a diversity case. Can the third party sue the underlying plaintiff (for something arising out of the same T/O) even if the third party and plaintiff are citizens of the same state? That is, the limitation for supplemental jurisdiction only applies to claims brought by the underlying plaintiff, right?


Yea

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3|ink
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:31 pm

gracious




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