BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

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Birdnals
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Birdnals » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:22 pm

myrtlewinston wrote:1. Are the MBE workshops worth watching?

Yeah, I think so, there are good mini-reviews on tested topics. I found it helpful.

Barbro
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Barbro » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:22 pm

Kage3212 wrote:
acronyx wrote:
Birdnals wrote:Guzman is my mother fucking boy. His review lectures pretty much say everything you need to know, and his 9 stages of drunk analysis if 180 as fuck.

"What did he think I said?"

So...why can't we get his little mini-reviews without the questions in between? That would be fantastic.


This is essentially what the MBE review thing that Barbri offered is (the thing you had to pay 100 bucks for). Guzman does each subject.


Is it worth the $?

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brotherdarkness
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby brotherdarkness » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:36 pm

cdelgado wrote:What the hell is real property set 5? That was ridiculous.


Barbri's MBE questions are absurd. I'm consistently scoring around 60% on those, yet when I pick up the Emanuel's book I rarely miss any. At this point, Barbri's questions might be hurting me more than helping me because they leave me frustrated and on the verge of a breakdown.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:40 pm

I love how one of the explanations on Crim Law set 5 conceded that all four choices were reasonable.

Kage3212
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:43 pm

Barbro wrote:
Kage3212 wrote:
acronyx wrote:
Birdnals wrote:Guzman is my mother fucking boy. His review lectures pretty much say everything you need to know, and his 9 stages of drunk analysis if 180 as fuck.

"What did he think I said?"

So...why can't we get his little mini-reviews without the questions in between? That would be fantastic.


This is essentially what the MBE review thing that Barbri offered is (the thing you had to pay 100 bucks for). Guzman does each subject.


Is it worth the $?


Only got through 2. Conlaw was helpful, crim law not so much. But really, they are summaries of the lecture guzman already did after the MBE simulation. I will be curious to see if the other sections he didnt do are helpful (property being the bane of my existence).

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charlesxavier
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby charlesxavier » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:53 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:
cdelgado wrote:What the hell is real property set 5? That was ridiculous.


Barbri's MBE questions are absurd. I'm consistently scoring around 60% on those, yet when I pick up the Emanuel's book I rarely miss any. At this point, Barbri's questions might be hurting me more than helping me because they leave me frustrated and on the verge of a breakdown.


I'm thinking about just skipping the other barbri MPQ sets and focus on Emanuel. It may cost me one obscure question on test day, but I don't feel like consenting to another beat down.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:18 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:
cdelgado wrote:What the hell is real property set 5? That was ridiculous.


Barbri's MBE questions are absurd. I'm consistently scoring around 60% on those, yet when I pick up the Emanuel's book I rarely miss any. At this point, Barbri's questions might be hurting me more than helping me because they leave me frustrated and on the verge of a breakdown.


Is this difference really that great? (my Emanuel's book isn't arriving until Saturday so I haven't had an opportunity to compare). But some of these BarBri questions are absolutely ridiculous and they make me feel like I'm not learning much of anything.

Tiago Splitter wrote:I love how one of the explanations on Crim Law set 5 conceded that all four choices were reasonable.


:lol:

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:26 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I love how one of the explanations on Crim Law set 5 conceded that all four choices were reasonable.


charlesxavier wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:
cdelgado wrote:What the hell is real property set 5? That was ridiculous.


Barbri's MBE questions are absurd. I'm consistently scoring around 60% on those, yet when I pick up the Emanuel's book I rarely miss any. At this point, Barbri's questions might be hurting me more than helping me because they leave me frustrated and on the verge of a breakdown.


I'm thinking about just skipping the other barbri MPQ sets and focus on Emanuel. It may cost me one obscure question on test day, but I don't feel like consenting to another beat down.


Awesome. 10/10 on both.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby dwyf » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:39 pm

I'm trying to plan my next 18 days and 10 hours (thanks seperac clock, I hate you).

Anyone know how many NY lectures there are in total?

I believe these have been assigned:
ny practice (3)
partnership/agency
admin
corporations (2)
PR
secured transactions
trusts
wills (2)
conflict of laws

How many more to come?
domestic relations is tomorrow.

Are any of them less than 3 hours?

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Unagi
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Unagi » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:44 pm

murray18 wrote:Are the leansheets worth buying? If I just memorize the rules in those leansheets, will I be mostly good on the essay subjects? I didn't take a handful of those subjects, and I'm beginning to feel overwhelmed...


I bought them, and they seem pretty on point. I did not create my own outlines, so having the lean sheets with everything written down in a concise manner with general MBE law and NY distinctions has made my life a lot easier.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:44 pm

If you got about 115 on the Barbri midterm, you are 50th percentile. Some simple algebra reveals the following facts:

In a 50% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile or more on the MBE, you are guaranteed to pass even if you left all the essays blank*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 8.3% in state subjects*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you are 60th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 1.6% in state subjects*.

Hopefully this helps put things in perspective.

(*Assuming a 75% overall pass rate.)

EDIT: Actually not entirely true for reasons described below. But you will still pass, I promise.
Last edited by Neff on Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:50 pm

Neff wrote:If you got about 115 on the Barbri midterm, you are 50th percentile. Some simple algebra reveals the following facts:

In a 50% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile or more on the MBE, you are guaranteed to pass even if you left all the essays blank*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 8.3% in state subjects*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you are 60th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 1.6% in state subjects*.

Hopefully this helps put things in perspective.

(*Assuming a 75% overall pass rate.)


This is great. Thank you!

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brotherdarkness
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby brotherdarkness » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:53 pm

Good Guy Gaud wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:
cdelgado wrote:What the hell is real property set 5? That was ridiculous.


Barbri's MBE questions are absurd. I'm consistently scoring around 60% on those, yet when I pick up the Emanuel's book I rarely miss any. At this point, Barbri's questions might be hurting me more than helping me because they leave me frustrated and on the verge of a breakdown.


Is this difference really that great? (my Emanuel's book isn't arriving until Saturday so I haven't had an opportunity to compare). But some of these BarBri questions are absolutely ridiculous and they make me feel like I'm not learning much of anything.


Could be placebo effect (by now, I'm so used to getting my shit pushed in by Barbri that it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy), but I find that the Emanuel's (a) has more manageable fact patterns, and, more importantly, (b) the "distractors" in the Emanuel's questions aren't nearly as tempting as those in Barbri's questions.

The obvious concern is that the real MBE turns out to be like Barbri, but everything I've read says that's not the case. Fingers crossed...
Last edited by brotherdarkness on Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

victortsoi
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby victortsoi » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:53 pm

LawGuy321 wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:Whipped out a Torts essay to be graded. I did it with open LeanSheets. Not exactly closed book, but less than full open book, I figure. :oops: And better than not doing one at all.
I'll try and do the CivPro one tonight before 10pm. Whee.


So, I'm JUST getting around to doing essays...going to crank out a few before tonight just in case the deadline is tonight (and not tomorrow, considering the dates that are conflicting).

When it says "Criminal Law Essay 1" Does that mean "Question 1" in our NYT book?

How long are people generally spending per essay when they write them? Wondering if it's possible to write a bunch of these REALLY quick and even if they're not great, better than not getting any feedback at all...


these are not like law school issue spotters, they are much more narrow IMO, or at least each question is one or one and a half issues, in that sense. I definetely don't take more than 20 minutes, because i cant get myself to do the whole write out ritual, i do something in between writing and outlining and then check to see if i got the main points.

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soj
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby soj » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:54 pm

why would fake questions with a reputation for unrealism be closer to the real thing than actual past questions?

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:56 pm

soj wrote:why would fake questions with a reputation for unrealism be closer to the real thing than actual past questions?


CUZ PARANOIA SOJ, THAT'S WHY

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brotherdarkness
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby brotherdarkness » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:58 pm

soj wrote:why would fake questions with a reputation for unrealism be closer to the real thing than actual past questions?


This year's MBE could be different than those of years past. Also, I could have sworn I read that one of the reasons/excuses/whatever for last year's abysmal pass rate that the MBE was harder.

That said, you're right. It seems ridiculous to believe that Barbri is an accurate predictor based on the released past questions and everything that's been said. But the whole "instill fear" thing has worked to some extent...

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby acronyx » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:03 pm

Kage3212 wrote:
acronyx wrote:
Birdnals wrote:Guzman is my mother fucking boy. His review lectures pretty much say everything you need to know, and his 9 stages of drunk analysis if 180 as fuck.

"What did he think I said?"

So...why can't we get his little mini-reviews without the questions in between? That would be fantastic.


This is essentially what the MBE review thing that Barbri offered is (the thing you had to pay 100 bucks for). Guzman does each subject.

Good to know. Not that I would have paid for it out of principle, but it's really frustrating that also noticed that they should really have a quick summary review of the MBE topics and then decided it shouldn't be included in their really expensive and nominally comprehensive bar prep course.

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:04 pm

Neff wrote:If you got about 115 on the Barbri midterm, you are 50th percentile. Some simple algebra reveals the following facts:

In a 50% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile or more on the MBE, you are guaranteed to pass even if you left all the essays blank*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 8.3% in state subjects*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you are 60th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 1.6% in state subjects*.

Hopefully this helps put things in perspective.

(*Assuming a 75% overall pass rate.)


This is incorrect.

Just using the 50% MBE state as an example because it's simpler:

The 50th percentile for July 2014 was a 141.5. The lowest you can receive (which is what would happen if you left "all the essays blank") is I BELIEVE an 85. 141 + 85 = 226. A typical UBE state's passing score is 270. They range from like 260 to 280, but this is about the middle of the road. There's not a single jurisdiction in the country where your rule would be true.

Please prove me wrong, because that all sounds great.

ETA: If we're using July 2014 as an example, if you were 50th percentile (141.5), you would need a 129 to pass in a state that requires 270. That's approximately the 26th percentile on the essays. So, pretty easy to do. But definitely not impossible to fuck up.

https://www.ncbex.org/publications/stat ... tatistics/
Last edited by RaleighStClair on Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

diowad
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby diowad » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:04 pm

Good Guy Gaud wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:
cdelgado wrote:What the hell is real property set 5? That was ridiculous.


Barbri's MBE questions are absurd. I'm consistently scoring around 60% on those, yet when I pick up the Emanuel's book I rarely miss any. At this point, Barbri's questions might be hurting me more than helping me because they leave me frustrated and on the verge of a breakdown.


Is this difference really that great? (my Emanuel's book isn't arriving until Saturday so I haven't had an opportunity to compare). But some of these BarBri questions are absolutely ridiculous and they make me feel like I'm not learning much of anything.

Tiago Splitter wrote:I love how one of the explanations on Crim Law set 5 conceded that all four choices were reasonable.


:lol:


The difference has definitely been apparent to me. If anything, it at least gives you a shit ton of confidence. I've done about 20 questions in K's, Crim, and Con Law for Emanuel so far and have gotten 80% in all of them. Which is pretty amazing considering I was right around 50% for all of those on the BarBri MBE's.

The Emanuel questions are almost all shorter, save for Property. Almost always, there is at least 1, sometimes 2, of the 4 answer choices that is absurdly wrong so you're basically picking 1 out of 3. There is generally just one issue with one possible exception instead of weaving through a forest of red herrings.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:17 pm

RaleighStClair wrote:
Neff wrote:If you got about 115 on the Barbri midterm, you are 50th percentile. Some simple algebra reveals the following facts:

In a 50% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile or more on the MBE, you are guaranteed to pass even if you left all the essays blank*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 8.3% in state subjects*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you are 60th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 1.6% in state subjects*.

Hopefully this helps put things in perspective.

(*Assuming a 75% overall pass rate.)


This is incorrect.

Just using the 50% MBE state as an example because it's simpler:

The 50th percentile for July 2014 was a 141.5. The lowest you can receive (which is what would happen if you left "all the essays blank") is I BELIEVE an 85. 141 + 85 = 226. A typical UBE state's passing score is 270. They range from like 260 to 280, but this is about the middle of the road. There's not a single jurisdiction in the country where your rule would be true.

Please prove me wrong, because that all sounds great.

ETA: If we're using July 2014 as an example, if you were 50th percentile (141.5), you would need a 129 to pass in a state that requires 270. That's approximately the 15th percentile on the essays. So, pretty easy to do. But definitely not impossible to fuck up.

https://www.ncbex.org/publications/stat ... tatistics/


.
Last edited by Neff on Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:19 pm

RaleighStClair wrote:
Neff wrote:If you got about 115 on the Barbri midterm, you are 50th percentile. Some simple algebra reveals the following facts:

In a 50% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile or more on the MBE, you are guaranteed to pass even if you left all the essays blank*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 8.3% in state subjects*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you are 60th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 1.6% in state subjects*.

Hopefully this helps put things in perspective.

(*Assuming a 75% overall pass rate.)


This is incorrect.

Just using the 50% MBE state as an example because it's simpler:

The 50th percentile for July 2014 was a 141.5. The lowest you can receive (which is what would happen if you left "all the essays blank") is I BELIEVE an 85. 141 + 85 = 226. A typical UBE state's passing score is 270. They range from like 260 to 280, but this is about the middle of the road. There's not a single jurisdiction in the country where your rule would be true.

Please prove me wrong, because that all sounds great.

ETA: If we're using July 2014 as an example, if you were 50th percentile (141.5), you would need a 129 to pass in a state that requires 270. That's approximately the 26th percentile on the essays. So, pretty easy to do. But definitely not impossible to fuck up.

https://www.ncbex.org/publications/stat ... tatistics/

I think Raleigh is (unfortunately) correct. Oregon's passing score is apparently 284. (God knows they don't actually TELL you that anywhere, but I found it on a couple of tutoring sites that had up-to-date info.) A median MBE score only gets me halfway there and I'd need to hit median on the other test day as well.

It doesn't make any damn sense to me that I need to be median to pass in a state where 70+% percent pass, but...I'm not the one scoring this shit.

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:23 pm

Neff wrote:
RaleighStClair wrote:
Neff wrote:If you got about 115 on the Barbri midterm, you are 50th percentile. Some simple algebra reveals the following facts:

In a 50% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile or more on the MBE, you are guaranteed to pass even if you left all the essays blank*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 8.3% in state subjects*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you are 60th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 1.6% in state subjects*.

Hopefully this helps put things in perspective.

(*Assuming a 75% overall pass rate.)


This is incorrect.

Just using the 50% MBE state as an example because it's simpler:

The 50th percentile for July 2014 was a 141.5. The lowest you can receive (which is what would happen if you left "all the essays blank") is I BELIEVE an 85. 141 + 85 = 226. A typical UBE state's passing score is 270. They range from like 260 to 280, but this is about the middle of the road. There's not a single jurisdiction in the country where your rule would be true.

Please prove me wrong, because that all sounds great.

ETA: If we're using July 2014 as an example, if you were 50th percentile (141.5), you would need a 129 to pass in a state that requires 270. That's approximately the 15th percentile on the essays. So, pretty easy to do. But definitely not impossible to fuck up.

https://www.ncbex.org/publications/stat ... tatistics/


You're right. I take back the first of my three claims about being able to leave them blank (due to the way scores are distributed in the lowest percentiles), but the remaining claims are mostly true. But yes, the 8.3% number is not exact given the way scores are distributed and the "guaranteed" language creates a bad express warranty.


I actually edited my post to say the 26th percentile because I added it up wrong. So If you're mean on the MBE (in a UBE state), you need about 26th percentile on the essays to pass.

But yeah. Generally speaking, if you're over mean on the MBE, you've got a good chance of passing the whole thing - and obviously the better you do on one the worse you can do on the other. But It definitely would not be statistically rare to be over mean on the MBE and still fail the bar exam.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kyle010723 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:23 pm

Neff wrote:If you got about 115 on the Barbri midterm, you are 50th percentile. Some simple algebra reveals the following facts:

In a 50% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile or more on the MBE, you are guaranteed to pass even if you left all the essays blank*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you score 50th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 8.3% in state subjects*.
In a 40% MBE state, if you are 60th percentile, you are guaranteed to pass if you score higher than the bottom 1.6% in state subjects*.

Hopefully this helps put things in perspective.

(*Assuming a 75% overall pass rate.)


Just curious, where did this 115 = 50th percentile come from?

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:25 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
It doesn't make any damn sense to me that I need to be median to pass in a state where 70+% percent pass, but...I'm not the one scoring this shit.



My only explanation for that would be that Oregon test-takers perform better than the national average, so even with a tougher passing percentage, >50% of people pass it. Because I believe it's "scaled" nationally, not state-by-state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCCrhvT3Af4




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