BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

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charlesxavier
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby charlesxavier » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:03 am

scaliaantics wrote:Is anyone in a boat where they have a good idea of why a question is wrong but they can't exactly articulate it?

I can get around 70-75% of MBE questions right, but if you asked me why something was wrong, I couldn't tell you. If you asked me what the elements of murder were, I'd have no idea. I just have a decent understanding of what facts would lead to murder. Is anyone in the same boat? How are you going about studying? Barbri is still assigning so much that I don't have time to just start reviewing the MBE subjects for memorization.


Honestly, I'm in the same boat and I'm not sure it really matters for the MBE. Sure, memorization would be nice but there's no way to remember every rule/exception for all MBE subjects. Being able to eliminate wrong answers and figure out what specific issue is being tested is really important. If you've been doing consistently well on practice MBE questions (especially if both Barbri and Emanuel) there's no reason to think your MBE performance will drop on game day because you didn't memorize the definition of murder.

For my state, I feel like the essays are the exact opposite. A majority of the questions are asking a broad question that involves analyzing a rule that you need to know.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:09 am

Hate the essays

Seems like anything is fair game

dwyf
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby dwyf » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:11 am

scaliaantics wrote:Is anyone in a boat where they have a good idea of why a question is wrong but they can't exactly articulate it?

I can get around 70-75% of MBE questions right, but if you asked me why something was wrong, I couldn't tell you. If you asked me what the elements of murder were, I'd have no idea. I just have a decent understanding of what facts would lead to murder. Is anyone in the same boat? How are you going about studying? Barbri is still assigning so much that I don't have time to just start reviewing the MBE subjects for memorization.


I'm definitely in this boat and it has me worried for essays. It's like I do it by feel, rather than actual knowledge.

I'm switching to essay writing as of today.

dwyf
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby dwyf » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:15 am

plurilingue wrote:
Neff wrote:Okay, so even though I've ranting about how crappy and fake Barbri Qs are, the OCD in me still forced myself to finish the simulated MBE today. Got a 126/200 (albeit done over two days), which is way better than I expected since I started out 26/50. I hated how the questions were either pretty easy or really hard (basically you had to know either a really obscure rule or read the writer's mind). It's like they were written by two totally different people. Never felt that way with the real Qs in Emanuel. Also I found AM (54/100) to be waaay harder than PM (72/100).

Now I feel like I'm way behind in state subjects and probably will do only an hour of MBE prep a day from now on, since I'm in a 40% MBE state and we have *16* non-MBE subjects to learn. I feel like a lot of us in those 40% or less states may be overdoing MBE at the expense of state subjects. But that's also mostly due to how Barbri is basically no help for state subjects besides video lectures, a shitty quiz, and essay assignments.


I also saw a sharp increase in my PM versus AM scores — something like 15 more correct — leaving me to think that the PM section was much easier. In fact, I got well over half of the questions wrong in the first column of 25 on the AM test. (At first, I had the distinct impression that I was grading with the wrong answer key!) Did anyone else find that the first two dozen questions on the AM exam were unusually difficult?

I also found the questions to be fairly easy or extremely difficult, but I sense the actual bar exam might be put together similarly (though with fewer very difficult questions). I remember hearing that getting 140 correct on the simulated MBE is 90th percentile or higher, with 150 correct being 98th percentile or higher. Can anyone who achieved such scores confirm this? Because these percentiles would confirm that a healthy portion of the Barbri questions are much, much harder than the actual MBE, where I think that high scaled scores (170+) are not so uncommon.

I'm spending a day or two going over the topics I got wrong on the simulated MBE and then moving on definitively to the state subjects. I agree that I have no idea how to prepare for the essay portion, though apparently memorizing rules and definitions verbatim is what is encouraged.


I had a similar AM/PM breakdown - 50/100; 70/100. I don't think I got as killed on the first column (15/25). I got 20 right on the middle 50 (10 and 10). Yikes. I'm letting them grade my scantron rather than reenter it online (I stupidly threw it in excel, not knowing I could enter them online). I'll be curious to see the subject breakdowns when they come back.

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SemperLegal
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby SemperLegal » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:26 am

I am consistently hitting 75% right on the MBE question sets, If I am taking the bar in NY and NJ, this is autoadmit, correct?

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Danger Zone
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Danger Zone » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:27 am

SemperLegal wrote:I am consistently hitting 75% right on the MBE question sets, If I am taking the bar in NY and NJ, this is autoadmit, correct?

Yep

Way to go man, killing it

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:28 am

SemperLegal wrote:I am consistently hitting 75% right on the MBE question sets, If I am taking the bar in NY and NJ, this is autoadmit, correct?


How could this be an auto pass when the MBE is only 40% in NY?

scaliaantics
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby scaliaantics » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:36 am

musicfor18 wrote:
SemperLegal wrote:I am consistently hitting 75% right on the MBE question sets, If I am taking the bar in NY and NJ, this is autoadmit, correct?


How could this be an auto pass when the MBE is only 40% in NY?


Because you only need to be in the 30th percentile come exam date. 75% right on the MBE is going to be (at least) the 80th percentile on the day of the exam.

Assume for a section that the MBE is 50% of the grade and for that you're in the 80th percentile. To fall in the 30th percentile at the end of the exam, you'd need to be in the -10th percentile on everything else. This is obviously impossible. So scaling the MBE down to 40% of your grade (i'm too lazy to do the math), means you have to literally leave essays blank and be the worst person on the exam to fail.

This isn't a perfect science because the exam isn't curved but its a decent idea of why being that high up on the MBE = autopass.

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SemperLegal
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby SemperLegal » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:42 am

Danger Zone wrote:
SemperLegal wrote:I am consistently hitting 75% right on the MBE question sets, If I am taking the bar in NY and NJ, this is autoadmit, correct?

Yep

Way to go man, killing it


Thanks!

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:06 am

kmp127 wrote:
Neff wrote:Okay, so even though I've ranting about how crappy and fake Barbri Qs are, the OCD in me still forced myself to finish the simulated MBE today. Got a 126/200 (albeit done over two days), which is way better than I expected since I started out 26/50. I hated how the questions were either pretty easy or really hard (basically you had to know either a really obscure rule or read the writer's mind). It's like they were written by two totally different people. Never felt that way with the real Qs in Emanuel. Also I found AM (54/100) to be waaay harder than PM (72/100).

Now I feel like I'm way behind in state subjects and probably will do only an hour of MBE prep a day from now on, since I'm in a 40% MBE state and we have *16* non-MBE subjects to learn. I feel like a lot of us in those 40% or less states may be overdoing MBE at the expense of state subjects. But that's also mostly due to how Barbri is basically no help for state subjects besides video lectures, a shitty quiz, and essay assignments.


Are you TX?? I haven't even touched half of of the essay subjects yet, there are so many! :( Why they do that, stupid stupid stupid examiners :(


Yep, I'm in TX. Actually I counted wrong, including bankruptcy and federal income tax there are 18 essay topics. There are 19 days until the exam. There's barely enough time to spend a full day on each topic. Of the 18 topics, I've only taken oil & gas and corporations in LS. For most of them I've done nothing to prep besides watching the videos. Barbri is of no help because they don't have anything for state topics like StudySmart or AMP for MBE. So I'm just gonna go over notes, read some sample essays, maybe even write some. And hope for the best!

TX Crim P&E
TX Civil P&E
Corporations
Trusts
Fed Estate/Gift Tax
Wills
Estate Admin
Guardianship
Commercial paper
Secured transactions
MPT
Agency & Partnership
Family law
Community property
Consumer law
Oil & gas
Bankruptcy
Federal income tax

EvelynS
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby EvelynS » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:19 pm

I tried to google it on my own, but at this point my brain is so dysfunctional that I cannot even do that. Does anyone know any good websites pr any information on the frequency of MBE questions by topic for property? I really suck at property. And my MBE scores on that subject constantly remind me about that. At this point, I just want to concentrate on the most frequently tested areas/topic in property. Any advice will be very appreciated.

diowad
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby diowad » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:27 pm

EvelynS wrote:I tried to google it on my own, but at this point my brain is so dysfunctional that I cannot even do that. Does anyone know any good websites pr any information on the frequency of MBE questions by topic for property? I really suck at property. And my MBE scores on that subject constantly remind me about that. At this point, I just want to concentrate on the most frequently tested areas/topic in property. Any advice will be very appreciated.


The Barbri video tutorial said there are 5-6 for each of the 5 big subjects
-Ownership (Future Interests + Joint Tenancies)
-LL/T
-Nonpossessory Interests (Easements + Covenants)
-Conveyances (Real Estate K's, Delivery, Recording Statutes)
-Mortgages

So really, there's no specific way to divide up your time

stronitsing
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby stronitsing » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:35 pm

For corporations, is there any difference between "majority of all shares entitled to vote" and "majority of all voting shares"? No, right?

scaliaantics
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby scaliaantics » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:38 pm

stronitsing wrote:For corporations, is there any difference between "majority of all shares entitled to vote" and "majority of all voting shares"? No, right?

Huge difference.

Say there are 100 voting shares of the company. Quorum is 50 shares to hold a shareholder meeting and all resolutions require 50% to pass. Lets say 50 people show up to the shareholder meeting. Those 50 people are the only people who are voting shares since they are the only ones that showed up to vote. A majority of them is 26 shares. Meanwhile, a majority of all shares entitled to vote is 51 shares since all 100 shares are entitled to vote.

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Devlin
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Devlin » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:05 pm

Neff wrote:
kmp127 wrote:
Neff wrote:Okay, so even though I've ranting about how crappy and fake Barbri Qs are, the OCD in me still forced myself to finish the simulated MBE today. Got a 126/200 (albeit done over two days), which is way better than I expected since I started out 26/50. I hated how the questions were either pretty easy or really hard (basically you had to know either a really obscure rule or read the writer's mind). It's like they were written by two totally different people. Never felt that way with the real Qs in Emanuel. Also I found AM (54/100) to be waaay harder than PM (72/100).

Now I feel like I'm way behind in state subjects and probably will do only an hour of MBE prep a day from now on, since I'm in a 40% MBE state and we have *16* non-MBE subjects to learn. I feel like a lot of us in those 40% or less states may be overdoing MBE at the expense of state subjects. But that's also mostly due to how Barbri is basically no help for state subjects besides video lectures, a shitty quiz, and essay assignments.


Are you TX?? I haven't even touched half of of the essay subjects yet, there are so many! :( Why they do that, stupid stupid stupid examiners :(


Yep, I'm in TX. Actually I counted wrong, including bankruptcy and federal income tax there are 18 essay topics. There are 19 days until the exam. There's barely enough time to spend a full day on each topic. Of the 18 topics, I've only taken oil & gas and corporations in LS. For most of them I've done nothing to prep besides watching the videos. Barbri is of no help because they don't have anything for state topics like StudySmart or AMP for MBE. So I'm just gonna go over notes, read some sample essays, maybe even write some. And hope for the best!

TX Crim P&E
TX Civil P&E
Corporations
Trusts
Fed Estate/Gift Tax
Wills
Estate Admin
Guardianship
Commercial paper
Secured transactions
MPT
Agency & Partnership
Family law
Community property
Consumer law
Oil & gas
Bankruptcy
Federal income tax

Literally the most scary thing I have read all day.

kmp127
Posts: 75
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kmp127 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:14 pm

Devlin wrote:
Neff wrote:
kmp127 wrote:
Neff wrote:Okay, so even though I've ranting about how crappy and fake Barbri Qs are, the OCD in me still forced myself to finish the simulated MBE today. Got a 126/200 (albeit done over two days), which is way better than I expected since I started out 26/50. I hated how the questions were either pretty easy or really hard (basically you had to know either a really obscure rule or read the writer's mind). It's like they were written by two totally different people. Never felt that way with the real Qs in Emanuel. Also I found AM (54/100) to be waaay harder than PM (72/100).

Now I feel like I'm way behind in state subjects and probably will do only an hour of MBE prep a day from now on, since I'm in a 40% MBE state and we have *16* non-MBE subjects to learn. I feel like a lot of us in those 40% or less states may be overdoing MBE at the expense of state subjects. But that's also mostly due to how Barbri is basically no help for state subjects besides video lectures, a shitty quiz, and essay assignments.


Are you TX?? I haven't even touched half of of the essay subjects yet, there are so many! :( Why they do that, stupid stupid stupid examiners :(


Yep, I'm in TX. Actually I counted wrong, including bankruptcy and federal income tax there are 18 essay topics. There are 19 days until the exam. There's barely enough time to spend a full day on each topic. Of the 18 topics, I've only taken oil & gas and corporations in LS. For most of them I've done nothing to prep besides watching the videos. Barbri is of no help because they don't have anything for state topics like StudySmart or AMP for MBE. So I'm just gonna go over notes, read some sample essays, maybe even write some. And hope for the best!

TX Crim P&E
TX Civil P&E
Corporations
Trusts
Fed Estate/Gift Tax
Wills
Estate Admin
Guardianship
Commercial paper
Secured transactions
MPT
Agency & Partnership
Family law
Community property
Consumer law
Oil & gas
Bankruptcy
Federal income tax

Literally the most scary thing I have read all day.
\

TX IS THE WORST!! I'm in the exact same boat -- most of these are so foreign to me -- only took Wills and Corp in law school, and that was 8 years ago... I've simply watched the lectures for most of these, and done NOTHING else. It breaks my heart that I'm just gonna have to take the loss at the exam and write nonsense bc I just couldn't get through all the dense subjects they decide to test on :( Oil and Gas SUCKS btw

stronitsing
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby stronitsing » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:28 pm

scaliaantics wrote:
stronitsing wrote:For corporations, is there any difference between "majority of all shares entitled to vote" and "majority of all voting shares"? No, right?

Huge difference.

Say there are 100 voting shares of the company. Quorum is 50 shares to hold a shareholder meeting and all resolutions require 50% to pass. Lets say 50 people show up to the shareholder meeting. Those 50 people are the only people who are voting shares since they are the only ones that showed up to vote. A majority of them is 26 shares. Meanwhile, a majority of all shares entitled to vote is 51 shares since all 100 shares are entitled to vote.


That make sense - thanks a lot

Kage3212
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:51 pm

If everyone is in the same boat, and everyone believes they dont have time to truly learn state material sufficiently, then what is the big deal? Learn what you can and realize that most of your peers are probably in a similar spot. Craft some reasonable rules and do some reasonable analysis. I do not think it warranted to think that other bar takers are going to know 18-19 state subjects cold come exam day. Maybe the top 5%, but not most.

musicfor18
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:18 pm

scaliaantics wrote:
musicfor18 wrote:
SemperLegal wrote:I am consistently hitting 75% right on the MBE question sets, If I am taking the bar in NY and NJ, this is autoadmit, correct?


How could this be an auto pass when the MBE is only 40% in NY?


Because you only need to be in the 30th percentile come exam date. 75% right on the MBE is going to be (at least) the 80th percentile on the day of the exam.

Assume for a section that the MBE is 50% of the grade and for that you're in the 80th percentile. To fall in the 30th percentile at the end of the exam, you'd need to be in the -10th percentile on everything else. This is obviously impossible. So scaling the MBE down to 40% of your grade (i'm too lazy to do the math), means you have to literally leave essays blank and be the worst person on the exam to fail.

This isn't a perfect science because the exam isn't curved but its a decent idea of why being that high up on the MBE = autopass.


I never quite understand this logic (although I want it to be true, because I think I'm going to stink at the essays!). The percentage who pass is based on the number of test-takers who score at least 665 points on the exam. The exam isn't curved in the sense that a certain percentage of test-takers will pass or fail. So, the fact that 83% of first-time takers pass in NY reflects the fact that 83% of first-time takers score enough points. But it doesn't mean that 83% will pass this time around. I just don't understand the "you just need to stay out of the bottom 20%" logic here.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:20 pm

I feel like I'm studying less and less each day but finding better ways to justify it lol

atticus89
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby atticus89 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:23 pm

Seems like a lot of people here are using Emanuel's with good results -- this is a scary question for me to ask, but does anyone feel like they're not doing better with Emanuel's?

I can't really seem to get a feel here, but it seems like most people are doing significantly better with Emanuel's than with Barbri MBE questions, the theory being that the actual bar exam questions (which is what Emanuel's uses) are easier than Barbri's questions. While I find that I do better on the subject specific questions in Emanuel's than on the Barbri subject question sets, I broke up the full day exam in Emanuel's into smaller mixed question sets and have found that my performance is consistently worse.

I don't know if I'm getting lucky on Barbri, or if I just got used to Barbri's question style, or what. I took the Simulated MBE 2 weeks ago and scored 140/200, which was 70% but the average was much lower. Since then I'm getting about 75-80% on the Barbri Mixed Question Sets (my high was 82% on Set 3) and random Mixed Study sets in Studysmart. By contrast in Emanuel's I'm getting 66-72% at best. I'm in CA, for reference.

I'm getting a little concerned because I thought that Emanuel's is supposed to be 'easier' than Barbri, and in theory should be more representative of the actual exam. I sometimes feel, however, that the questions get at weird intricacies that Barbri didn't really cover. Because CA weighs the MBE only 35% it's hard to gauge whether or not it's possible to truly 'auto-pass' with a high MBE, but I was hoping if I was consistently hitting 75-80% on the Barbri mixed sets, that I'd be able to get there on the actual exam (if not better, since it's supposed to be easier?) and could somewhat off-set any bad essays I churn out. I'm now worried because I feel like I've spent the last 7 weeks trusting Barbri here and when exposed to actual bar questions, I'm performing worse. I thought it would go the other way!

Looking for some words of wisdom here...

mushybrain
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mushybrain » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:25 pm

Obnoxious question: How does the federal preemption with gifts of US savings bonds work in CA community property exactly? For a gift in a will, a spouse can just give away savings bonds and the other spouse both can't set aside the gift and can't recover from the estate, right? If it was a gift before divorce, can the other spouse get equal offsetting CP assets in the divorce? Or does the federal preemption make them essentially SP for this purpose?

myrtlewinston
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby myrtlewinston » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:43 pm

Rinkrat and Neff,
Thanks for answering my question about Emanuel's. I don't think I'll add a study aid at this point. Will stick to Adaptibar.

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Devlin
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Devlin » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:52 pm

mushybrain wrote:Obnoxious question: How does the federal preemption with gifts of US savings bonds work in CA community property exactly? For a gift in a will, a spouse can just give away savings bonds and the other spouse both can't set aside the gift and can't recover from the estate, right? If it was a gift before divorce, can the other spouse get equal offsetting CP assets in the divorce? Or does the federal preemption make them essentially SP for this purpose?

JFC

You can pass the bar w/ out knowing this question.

mushybrain
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mushybrain » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:55 pm

But I wanna know!




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