BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

JG7773
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby JG7773 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:21 pm

BVest wrote:
Devlin wrote:.

Also, I have started to rely on the short outlines posted on Stanford's website. Someone posted them in another thread a week ago. Each MBE subject is around 6K words and right on point with only the rules.


SLS Outlines[/quote]

They seem to be password protected. Anyone downloaded them all and have them available via e-mail?

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BVest
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby BVest » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:55 pm


JG7773
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby JG7773 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:03 pm

BVest wrote:Updated Link


Thanks!

californiabarprep
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby californiabarprep » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:27 pm

Can someone please help me understand this MBE question? It's just... omg.

[+] Spoiler
Arriving home from work, a husband found his wife engaged in sex with his best friend. The husband flew into a rage and verbally threatened to shoot both of them, although he did not own a gun. The best friend quickly left and the husband eventually calmed down and regained his self-control after his wife promised not to see the best friend again. Nevertheless, the husband left the house to purchase a handgun. After making his purchase, he stopped by a local bar and became inebriated.

In the meantime, the best friend returned to drop off the husband's favorite hat, which the husband had left at the best friend's house the day before. Only the wife was home, but as the wife was giving the best friend a goodbye hug, the husband returned home, still inebriated. As both the wife and the best friend attempted to explain the innocent nature of their being together, the husband, his shock over their relationship returning, pulled the trigger. His shot missed the best friend and instead killed the wife.

The husband was charged with common law murder of his wife. Which of the following would be his best argument against the charge?

(a) He didn't intend to kill his wife.
(b) His intoxicated state prevented him from forming the intent necessary to commit the crime.
(c) The sight of his best friend and his wife together again reignited his feelings regarding his wife's adultery.
(d) A reasonable person would not have cooled off from the initial discovery of the adultery.

So the correct answer was (c). I unfortunately do not have any answer explanations to this, and I'm very puzzled. (c) would bring the charge down to a voluntary manslaughter due to provocation. I understand that (a) wouldn't really help because he could still have had the intent to inflict bodily injury (which is one of the intents for "malice" under CL murder). But I can't seem to explain how (b) or (d) are wrong answers. Help???

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Killingly
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Killingly » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:33 pm

californiabarprep wrote:Can someone please help me understand this MBE question? It's just... omg.

[+] Spoiler
Arriving home from work, a husband found his wife engaged in sex with his best friend. The husband flew into a rage and verbally threatened to shoot both of them, although he did not own a gun. The best friend quickly left and the husband eventually calmed down and regained his self-control after his wife promised not to see the best friend again. Nevertheless, the husband left the house to purchase a handgun. After making his purchase, he stopped by a local bar and became inebriated.

In the meantime, the best friend returned to drop off the husband's favorite hat, which the husband had left at the best friend's house the day before. Only the wife was home, but as the wife was giving the best friend a goodbye hug, the husband returned home, still inebriated. As both the wife and the best friend attempted to explain the innocent nature of their being together, the husband, his shock over their relationship returning, pulled the trigger. His shot missed the best friend and instead killed the wife.

The husband was charged with common law murder of his wife. Which of the following would be his best argument against the charge?

(a) He didn't intend to kill his wife.
(b) His intoxicated state prevented him from forming the intent necessary to commit the crime.
(c) The sight of his best friend and his wife together again reignited his feelings regarding his wife's adultery.
(d) A reasonable person would not have cooled off from the initial discovery of the adultery.

So the correct answer was (c). I unfortunately do not have any answer explanations to this, and I'm very puzzled. (c) would bring the charge down to a voluntary manslaughter due to provocation. I understand that (a) wouldn't really help because he could still have had the intent to inflict bodily injury (which is one of the intents for "malice" under CL murder). But I can't seem to explain how (b) or (d) are wrong answers. Help???


I think at least with (b) you have to look out for people getting ideas AND THEN going and getting drunk. But someone correct me if I'm wrong.

HLBE689
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:27 am

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby HLBE689 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:37 pm

Killingly wrote:
californiabarprep wrote:Can someone please help me understand this MBE question? It's just... omg.

[+] Spoiler
Arriving home from work, a husband found his wife engaged in sex with his best friend. The husband flew into a rage and verbally threatened to shoot both of them, although he did not own a gun. The best friend quickly left and the husband eventually calmed down and regained his self-control after his wife promised not to see the best friend again. Nevertheless, the husband left the house to purchase a handgun. After making his purchase, he stopped by a local bar and became inebriated.

In the meantime, the best friend returned to drop off the husband's favorite hat, which the husband had left at the best friend's house the day before. Only the wife was home, but as the wife was giving the best friend a goodbye hug, the husband returned home, still inebriated. As both the wife and the best friend attempted to explain the innocent nature of their being together, the husband, his shock over their relationship returning, pulled the trigger. His shot missed the best friend and instead killed the wife.

The husband was charged with common law murder of his wife. Which of the following would be his best argument against the charge?

(a) He didn't intend to kill his wife.
(b) His intoxicated state prevented him from forming the intent necessary to commit the crime.
(c) The sight of his best friend and his wife together again reignited his feelings regarding his wife's adultery.
(d) A reasonable person would not have cooled off from the initial discovery of the adultery.

So the correct answer was (c). I unfortunately do not have any answer explanations to this, and I'm very puzzled. (c) would bring the charge down to a voluntary manslaughter due to provocation. I understand that (a) wouldn't really help because he could still have had the intent to inflict bodily injury (which is one of the intents for "malice" under CL murder). But I can't seem to explain how (b) or (d) are wrong answers. Help???


I think at least with (b) you have to look out for people getting ideas AND THEN going and getting drunk. But someone correct me if I'm wrong.



That's my understanding as well - the basic argument would be along the lines of he wasn't drunk when he bought the gun, which suggests he had the requisite intent before becoming intoxicated. Just because he actually committed the crime when drunk doesn't negate the fact he had the necessary intent earlier on. Or something along those lines

JG7773
Posts: 333
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby JG7773 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:39 pm

Killingly wrote:
californiabarprep wrote:Can someone please help me understand this MBE question? It's just... omg.

[+] Spoiler
Arriving home from work, a husband found his wife engaged in sex with his best friend. The husband flew into a rage and verbally threatened to shoot both of them, although he did not own a gun. The best friend quickly left and the husband eventually calmed down and regained his self-control after his wife promised not to see the best friend again. Nevertheless, the husband left the house to purchase a handgun. After making his purchase, he stopped by a local bar and became inebriated.

In the meantime, the best friend returned to drop off the husband's favorite hat, which the husband had left at the best friend's house the day before. Only the wife was home, but as the wife was giving the best friend a goodbye hug, the husband returned home, still inebriated. As both the wife and the best friend attempted to explain the innocent nature of their being together, the husband, his shock over their relationship returning, pulled the trigger. His shot missed the best friend and instead killed the wife.

The husband was charged with common law murder of his wife. Which of the following would be his best argument against the charge?

(a) He didn't intend to kill his wife.
(b) His intoxicated state prevented him from forming the intent necessary to commit the crime.
(c) The sight of his best friend and his wife together again reignited his feelings regarding his wife's adultery.
(d) A reasonable person would not have cooled off from the initial discovery of the adultery.

So the correct answer was (c). I unfortunately do not have any answer explanations to this, and I'm very puzzled. (c) would bring the charge down to a voluntary manslaughter due to provocation. I understand that (a) wouldn't really help because he could still have had the intent to inflict bodily injury (which is one of the intents for "malice" under CL murder). But I can't seem to explain how (b) or (d) are wrong answers. Help???


I think at least with (b) you have to look out for people getting ideas AND THEN going and getting drunk. But someone correct me if I'm wrong.


Yeah. With (b) liquid courage does not yield to a valid defense of voluntary intoxication.

californiabarprep
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:39 pm

Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby californiabarprep » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:45 pm

HLBE689 wrote:
Killingly wrote:
californiabarprep wrote:Can someone please help me understand this MBE question? It's just... omg.

[+] Spoiler
Arriving home from work, a husband found his wife engaged in sex with his best friend. The husband flew into a rage and verbally threatened to shoot both of them, although he did not own a gun. The best friend quickly left and the husband eventually calmed down and regained his self-control after his wife promised not to see the best friend again. Nevertheless, the husband left the house to purchase a handgun. After making his purchase, he stopped by a local bar and became inebriated.

In the meantime, the best friend returned to drop off the husband's favorite hat, which the husband had left at the best friend's house the day before. Only the wife was home, but as the wife was giving the best friend a goodbye hug, the husband returned home, still inebriated. As both the wife and the best friend attempted to explain the innocent nature of their being together, the husband, his shock over their relationship returning, pulled the trigger. His shot missed the best friend and instead killed the wife.

The husband was charged with common law murder of his wife. Which of the following would be his best argument against the charge?

(a) He didn't intend to kill his wife.
(b) His intoxicated state prevented him from forming the intent necessary to commit the crime.
(c) The sight of his best friend and his wife together again reignited his feelings regarding his wife's adultery.
(d) A reasonable person would not have cooled off from the initial discovery of the adultery.

So the correct answer was (c). I unfortunately do not have any answer explanations to this, and I'm very puzzled. (c) would bring the charge down to a voluntary manslaughter due to provocation. I understand that (a) wouldn't really help because he could still have had the intent to inflict bodily injury (which is one of the intents for "malice" under CL murder). But I can't seem to explain how (b) or (d) are wrong answers. Help???


I think at least with (b) you have to look out for people getting ideas AND THEN going and getting drunk. But someone correct me if I'm wrong.




That's my understanding as well - the basic argument would be along the lines of he wasn't drunk when he bought the gun, which suggests he had the requisite intent before becoming intoxicated. Just because he actually committed the crime when drunk doesn't negate the fact he had the necessary intent earlier on. Or something along those lines


Thanks - that makes sense. Can't form intoxication defense after your intent has already been formed.

Kage3212
Posts: 340
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:48 pm

californiabarprep wrote:Can someone please help me understand this MBE question? It's just... omg.

[+] Spoiler
Arriving home from work, a husband found his wife engaged in sex with his best friend. The husband flew into a rage and verbally threatened to shoot both of them, although he did not own a gun. The best friend quickly left and the husband eventually calmed down and regained his self-control after his wife promised not to see the best friend again. Nevertheless, the husband left the house to purchase a handgun. After making his purchase, he stopped by a local bar and became inebriated.

In the meantime, the best friend returned to drop off the husband's favorite hat, which the husband had left at the best friend's house the day before. Only the wife was home, but as the wife was giving the best friend a goodbye hug, the husband returned home, still inebriated. As both the wife and the best friend attempted to explain the innocent nature of their being together, the husband, his shock over their relationship returning, pulled the trigger. His shot missed the best friend and instead killed the wife.

The husband was charged with common law murder of his wife. Which of the following would be his best argument against the charge?

(a) He didn't intend to kill his wife.
(b) His intoxicated state prevented him from forming the intent necessary to commit the crime.
(c) The sight of his best friend and his wife together again reignited his feelings regarding his wife's adultery.
(d) A reasonable person would not have cooled off from the initial discovery of the adultery.

So the correct answer was (c). I unfortunately do not have any answer explanations to this, and I'm very puzzled. (c) would bring the charge down to a voluntary manslaughter due to provocation. I understand that (a) wouldn't really help because he could still have had the intent to inflict bodily injury (which is one of the intents for "malice" under CL murder). But I can't seem to explain how (b) or (d) are wrong answers. Help???



Also keep in mind, that the intent for first degree murder is different than the intent for a lesser charge or murder. A lesser charge of murder, which can require "a substantial and unjustifiable risk to the value of human life" is NOT a specific intent crime (but it is still murder). Voluntary intox is only a defense to First Degree Murder, a specific intent type of murder. It is not a valid defense to a lesser charger of murder. The problem just states that he was charged with "murder," voluntary intox only potentially gets him off the hook for one type of murder, first degree.

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charlesxavier
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby charlesxavier » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:48 pm

JG7773 wrote:
Killingly wrote:
californiabarprep wrote:Can someone please help me understand this MBE question? It's just... omg.

[+] Spoiler
Arriving home from work, a husband found his wife engaged in sex with his best friend. The husband flew into a rage and verbally threatened to shoot both of them, although he did not own a gun. The best friend quickly left and the husband eventually calmed down and regained his self-control after his wife promised not to see the best friend again. Nevertheless, the husband left the house to purchase a handgun. After making his purchase, he stopped by a local bar and became inebriated.

In the meantime, the best friend returned to drop off the husband's favorite hat, which the husband had left at the best friend's house the day before. Only the wife was home, but as the wife was giving the best friend a goodbye hug, the husband returned home, still inebriated. As both the wife and the best friend attempted to explain the innocent nature of their being together, the husband, his shock over their relationship returning, pulled the trigger. His shot missed the best friend and instead killed the wife.

The husband was charged with common law murder of his wife. Which of the following would be his best argument against the charge?

(a) He didn't intend to kill his wife.
(b) His intoxicated state prevented him from forming the intent necessary to commit the crime.
(c) The sight of his best friend and his wife together again reignited his feelings regarding his wife's adultery.
(d) A reasonable person would not have cooled off from the initial discovery of the adultery.

So the correct answer was (c). I unfortunately do not have any answer explanations to this, and I'm very puzzled. (c) would bring the charge down to a voluntary manslaughter due to provocation. I understand that (a) wouldn't really help because he could still have had the intent to inflict bodily injury (which is one of the intents for "malice" under CL murder). But I can't seem to explain how (b) or (d) are wrong answers. Help???


I think at least with (b) you have to look out for people getting ideas AND THEN going and getting drunk. But someone correct me if I'm wrong.


Yeah. With (b) liquid courage does not yield to a valid defense of voluntary intoxication.


I thought with liquid courage you had to intentionally get drunk for the purpose of working up courage to commit the crime?

mr.hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mr.hands » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:09 pm

charlesxavier wrote:
JG7773 wrote:
Killingly wrote:
californiabarprep wrote:Can someone please help me understand this MBE question? It's just... omg.

[+] Spoiler
Arriving home from work, a husband found his wife engaged in sex with his best friend. The husband flew into a rage and verbally threatened to shoot both of them, although he did not own a gun. The best friend quickly left and the husband eventually calmed down and regained his self-control after his wife promised not to see the best friend again. Nevertheless, the husband left the house to purchase a handgun. After making his purchase, he stopped by a local bar and became inebriated.

In the meantime, the best friend returned to drop off the husband's favorite hat, which the husband had left at the best friend's house the day before. Only the wife was home, but as the wife was giving the best friend a goodbye hug, the husband returned home, still inebriated. As both the wife and the best friend attempted to explain the innocent nature of their being together, the husband, his shock over their relationship returning, pulled the trigger. His shot missed the best friend and instead killed the wife.

The husband was charged with common law murder of his wife. Which of the following would be his best argument against the charge?

(a) He didn't intend to kill his wife.
(b) His intoxicated state prevented him from forming the intent necessary to commit the crime.
(c) The sight of his best friend and his wife together again reignited his feelings regarding his wife's adultery.
(d) A reasonable person would not have cooled off from the initial discovery of the adultery.

So the correct answer was (c). I unfortunately do not have any answer explanations to this, and I'm very puzzled. (c) would bring the charge down to a voluntary manslaughter due to provocation. I understand that (a) wouldn't really help because he could still have had the intent to inflict bodily injury (which is one of the intents for "malice" under CL murder). But I can't seem to explain how (b) or (d) are wrong answers. Help???


I think at least with (b) you have to look out for people getting ideas AND THEN going and getting drunk. But someone correct me if I'm wrong.


Yeah. With (b) liquid courage does not yield to a valid defense of voluntary intoxication.


I thought with liquid courage you had to intentionally get drunk for the purpose of working up courage to commit the crime?


Maybe I'm overly optimistic but, based on the real MBE questions I've seen, this is not representative of test day questions. You're right about the rules and when the test rolls around it won't be this ambiguous

MaroPolo
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby MaroPolo » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:42 am

Kage3212 wrote:
californiabarprep wrote:Can someone please help me understand this MBE question? It's just... omg.

[+] Spoiler
Arriving home from work, a husband found his wife engaged in sex with his best friend. The husband flew into a rage and verbally threatened to shoot both of them, although he did not own a gun. The best friend quickly left and the husband eventually calmed down and regained his self-control after his wife promised not to see the best friend again. Nevertheless, the husband left the house to purchase a handgun. After making his purchase, he stopped by a local bar and became inebriated.

In the meantime, the best friend returned to drop off the husband's favorite hat, which the husband had left at the best friend's house the day before. Only the wife was home, but as the wife was giving the best friend a goodbye hug, the husband returned home, still inebriated. As both the wife and the best friend attempted to explain the innocent nature of their being together, the husband, his shock over their relationship returning, pulled the trigger. His shot missed the best friend and instead killed the wife.

The husband was charged with common law murder of his wife. Which of the following would be his best argument against the charge?

(a) He didn't intend to kill his wife.
(b) His intoxicated state prevented him from forming the intent necessary to commit the crime.
(c) The sight of his best friend and his wife together again reignited his feelings regarding his wife's adultery.
(d) A reasonable person would not have cooled off from the initial discovery of the adultery.

So the correct answer was (c). I unfortunately do not have any answer explanations to this, and I'm very puzzled. (c) would bring the charge down to a voluntary manslaughter due to provocation. I understand that (a) wouldn't really help because he could still have had the intent to inflict bodily injury (which is one of the intents for "malice" under CL murder). But I can't seem to explain how (b) or (d) are wrong answers. Help???



Also keep in mind, that the intent for first degree murder is different than the intent for a lesser charge or murder. A lesser charge of murder, which can require "a substantial and unjustifiable risk to the value of human life" is NOT a specific intent crime (but it is still murder). Voluntary intox is only a defense to First Degree Murder, a specific intent type of murder. It is not a valid defense to a lesser charger of murder. The problem just states that he was charged with "murder," voluntary intox only potentially gets him off the hook for one type of murder, first degree.


This is the perfect explanation. Voluntary intoxication is only a defense to specific intent crimes. CL murder is not a specific intent crime. Being intoxicated is not a defense. The sudden and intense passion of seeing him with the woman again could get the charge reduced to voluntary manslaughter.

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:38 am

Okay, so even though I've ranting about how crappy and fake Barbri Qs are, the OCD in me still forced myself to finish the simulated MBE today. Got a 126/200 (albeit done over two days), which is way better than I expected since I started out 26/50. I hated how the questions were either pretty easy or really hard (basically you had to know either a really obscure rule or read the writer's mind). It's like they were written by two totally different people. Never felt that way with the real Qs in Emanuel. Also I found AM (54/100) to be waaay harder than PM (72/100).

Now I feel like I'm way behind in state subjects and probably will do only an hour of MBE prep a day from now on, since I'm in a 40% MBE state and we have *16* non-MBE subjects to learn. I feel like a lot of us in those 40% or less states may be overdoing MBE at the expense of state subjects. But that's also mostly due to how Barbri is basically no help for state subjects besides video lectures, a shitty quiz, and essay assignments.

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:48 am

Anyone do Con Law Set 5? I'm getting wrecked by it.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:07 am

Most of the Set 5s got me good ...

:?

plurilingue
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby plurilingue » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:40 am

Neff wrote:Okay, so even though I've ranting about how crappy and fake Barbri Qs are, the OCD in me still forced myself to finish the simulated MBE today. Got a 126/200 (albeit done over two days), which is way better than I expected since I started out 26/50. I hated how the questions were either pretty easy or really hard (basically you had to know either a really obscure rule or read the writer's mind). It's like they were written by two totally different people. Never felt that way with the real Qs in Emanuel. Also I found AM (54/100) to be waaay harder than PM (72/100).

Now I feel like I'm way behind in state subjects and probably will do only an hour of MBE prep a day from now on, since I'm in a 40% MBE state and we have *16* non-MBE subjects to learn. I feel like a lot of us in those 40% or less states may be overdoing MBE at the expense of state subjects. But that's also mostly due to how Barbri is basically no help for state subjects besides video lectures, a shitty quiz, and essay assignments.


I also saw a sharp increase in my PM versus AM scores — something like 15 more correct — leaving me to think that the PM section was much easier. In fact, I got well over half of the questions wrong in the first column of 25 on the AM test. (At first, I had the distinct impression that I was grading with the wrong answer key!) Did anyone else find that the first two dozen questions on the AM exam were unusually difficult?

I also found the questions to be fairly easy or extremely difficult, but I sense the actual bar exam might be put together similarly (though with fewer very difficult questions). I remember hearing that getting 140 correct on the simulated MBE is 90th percentile or higher, with 150 correct being 98th percentile or higher. Can anyone who achieved such scores confirm this? Because these percentiles would confirm that a healthy portion of the Barbri questions are much, much harder than the actual MBE, where I think that high scaled scores (170+) are not so uncommon.

I'm spending a day or two going over the topics I got wrong on the simulated MBE and then moving on definitively to the state subjects. I agree that I have no idea how to prepare for the essay portion, though apparently memorizing rules and definitions verbatim is what is encouraged.
Last edited by plurilingue on Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kage3212
Posts: 340
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:44 am

Neff wrote:Okay, so even though I've ranting about how crappy and fake Barbri Qs are, the OCD in me still forced myself to finish the simulated MBE today. Got a 126/200 (albeit done over two days), which is way better than I expected since I started out 26/50. I hated how the questions were either pretty easy or really hard (basically you had to know either a really obscure rule or read the writer's mind). It's like they were written by two totally different people. Never felt that way with the real Qs in Emanuel. Also I found AM (54/100) to be waaay harder than PM (72/100).

Now I feel like I'm way behind in state subjects and probably will do only an hour of MBE prep a day from now on, since I'm in a 40% MBE state and we have *16* non-MBE subjects to learn. I feel like a lot of us in those 40% or less states may be overdoing MBE at the expense of state subjects. But that's also mostly due to how Barbri is basically no help for state subjects besides video lectures, a shitty quiz, and essay assignments.


You really cant understate the MBE. I am in PA, also a 40% MBE state. The maximum unsuccessful scale MBE score was 151.8 in July 2014. In July 2013, it was 148.3. I think it is fair to make the somewhat logical leap that any somewhat competent essays with a 152 scaled MBE would have gotten you past the bar exam. Not even considering that many of the issues on state essays derive wholly or substantially from MBE material.

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:02 am

Kage3212 wrote:
Neff wrote:Okay, so even though I've ranting about how crappy and fake Barbri Qs are, the OCD in me still forced myself to finish the simulated MBE today. Got a 126/200 (albeit done over two days), which is way better than I expected since I started out 26/50. I hated how the questions were either pretty easy or really hard (basically you had to know either a really obscure rule or read the writer's mind). It's like they were written by two totally different people. Never felt that way with the real Qs in Emanuel. Also I found AM (54/100) to be waaay harder than PM (72/100).

Now I feel like I'm way behind in state subjects and probably will do only an hour of MBE prep a day from now on, since I'm in a 40% MBE state and we have *16* non-MBE subjects to learn. I feel like a lot of us in those 40% or less states may be overdoing MBE at the expense of state subjects. But that's also mostly due to how Barbri is basically no help for state subjects besides video lectures, a shitty quiz, and essay assignments.


You really cant understate the MBE. I am in PA, also a 40% MBE state. The maximum unsuccessful scale MBE score was 151.8 in July 2014. In July 2013, it was 148.3. I think it is fair to make the somewhat logical leap that any somewhat competent essays with a 152 scaled MBE would have gotten you past the bar exam. Not even considering that many of the issues on state essays derive wholly or substantially from MBE material.


Where did you get those stats? Just curious. I'm in a full UBE state (50/30/20), and I'm curious what a maximum unsuccessful scaled MBE score would be. I guess I'm curious how shitty my essays can be. Cause they're bad.

Kage3212
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:04 am

plurilingue wrote:
Neff wrote:Okay, so even though I've ranting about how crappy and fake Barbri Qs are, the OCD in me still forced myself to finish the simulated MBE today. Got a 126/200 (albeit done over two days), which is way better than I expected since I started out 26/50. I hated how the questions were either pretty easy or really hard (basically you had to know either a really obscure rule or read the writer's mind). It's like they were written by two totally different people. Never felt that way with the real Qs in Emanuel. Also I found AM (54/100) to be waaay harder than PM (72/100).

Now I feel like I'm way behind in state subjects and probably will do only an hour of MBE prep a day from now on, since I'm in a 40% MBE state and we have *16* non-MBE subjects to learn. I feel like a lot of us in those 40% or less states may be overdoing MBE at the expense of state subjects. But that's also mostly due to how Barbri is basically no help for state subjects besides video lectures, a shitty quiz, and essay assignments.


I also saw a sharp increase in my PM versus AM scores — something like 15 more correct — leaving me to think that the PM section was much easier. In fact, I got well over half of the questions wrong in the first column of 25 on the AM test. (At first, I had the distinct impression that I was grading with the wrong answer key!) Did anyone else find that the first two dozen questions on the AM exam were unusually difficult?

I also found the questions to be fairly easy or extremely difficult, but I sense the actual bar exam might be put together similarly (though with fewer very difficult questions). I remember hearing that getting 140 correct on the simulated MBE is 90th percentile or higher, with 150 correct being 98th percentile or higher. Can anyone who achieved such scores confirm this? Because these percentiles would confirm that a healthy portion of the Barbri questions are much, much harder than the actual MBE, where I think that high scaled scores (170+) are not so uncommon.

I'm spending a day or two going over the topics I got wrong on the simulated MBE and then moving on definitively to the state subjects. I agree that I have no idea how to prepare for the essay portion, though apparently memorizing rules and definitions verbatim is what is encouraged.


To your question about percentile, 142 = 89th percentile according to the chart based on tonight's current refresh.

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Learned Throw Hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Learned Throw Hands » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:26 am

Sorry if I missed this being explained already but is the consensus that the MPQ mixed sets get progressively harder. I did the mixed set 1 a few days ago and hit 70% correct but does that just mean that I should prepare for a spanking as I move on to sets 2,3,4 and 5?

Kage3212
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:54 am

RaleighStClair wrote:
Kage3212 wrote:
Neff wrote:Okay, so even though I've ranting about how crappy and fake Barbri Qs are, the OCD in me still forced myself to finish the simulated MBE today. Got a 126/200 (albeit done over two days), which is way better than I expected since I started out 26/50. I hated how the questions were either pretty easy or really hard (basically you had to know either a really obscure rule or read the writer's mind). It's like they were written by two totally different people. Never felt that way with the real Qs in Emanuel. Also I found AM (54/100) to be waaay harder than PM (72/100).

Now I feel like I'm way behind in state subjects and probably will do only an hour of MBE prep a day from now on, since I'm in a 40% MBE state and we have *16* non-MBE subjects to learn. I feel like a lot of us in those 40% or less states may be overdoing MBE at the expense of state subjects. But that's also mostly due to how Barbri is basically no help for state subjects besides video lectures, a shitty quiz, and essay assignments.


You really cant understate the MBE. I am in PA, also a 40% MBE state. The maximum unsuccessful scale MBE score was 151.8 in July 2014. In July 2013, it was 148.3. I think it is fair to make the somewhat logical leap that any somewhat competent essays with a 152 scaled MBE would have gotten you past the bar exam. Not even considering that many of the issues on state essays derive wholly or substantially from MBE material.


Where did you get those stats? Just curious. I'm in a full UBE state (50/30/20), and I'm curious what a maximum unsuccessful scaled MBE score would be. I guess I'm curious how shitty my essays can be. Cause they're bad.


PA releases such results here: http://www.pabarexam.org/bar_exam_infor ... estats.htm

Not sure if other states release similarly detailed info.

kmp127
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kmp127 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:26 am

Neff wrote:Okay, so even though I've ranting about how crappy and fake Barbri Qs are, the OCD in me still forced myself to finish the simulated MBE today. Got a 126/200 (albeit done over two days), which is way better than I expected since I started out 26/50. I hated how the questions were either pretty easy or really hard (basically you had to know either a really obscure rule or read the writer's mind). It's like they were written by two totally different people. Never felt that way with the real Qs in Emanuel. Also I found AM (54/100) to be waaay harder than PM (72/100).

Now I feel like I'm way behind in state subjects and probably will do only an hour of MBE prep a day from now on, since I'm in a 40% MBE state and we have *16* non-MBE subjects to learn. I feel like a lot of us in those 40% or less states may be overdoing MBE at the expense of state subjects. But that's also mostly due to how Barbri is basically no help for state subjects besides video lectures, a shitty quiz, and essay assignments.


Are you TX?? I haven't even touched half of of the essay subjects yet, there are so many! :( Why they do that, stupid stupid stupid examiners :(

diowad
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby diowad » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:44 am

RaleighStClair wrote:Anyone do Con Law Set 5? I'm getting wrecked by it.


Yeah I think I got 9/18 on it. But I'm taking it with a grain of salt because there is absolutely no way the real test will have that many tax-specific questions.

scaliaantics
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby scaliaantics » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:46 am

Learned Throw Hands wrote:Sorry if I missed this being explained already but is the consensus that the MPQ mixed sets get progressively harder. I did the mixed set 1 a few days ago and hit 70% correct but does that just mean that I should prepare for a spanking as I move on to sets 2,3,4 and 5?


I don't htink so. The goals seem to be higher as you go along.

scaliaantics
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby scaliaantics » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:47 am

Is anyone in a boat where they have a good idea of why a question is wrong but they can't exactly articulate it?

I can get around 70-75% of MBE questions right, but if you asked me why something was wrong, I couldn't tell you. If you asked me what the elements of murder were, I'd have no idea. I just have a decent understanding of what facts would lead to murder. Is anyone in the same boat? How are you going about studying? Barbri is still assigning so much that I don't have time to just start reviewing the MBE subjects for memorization.




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