BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Poopface
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Poopface » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:32 pm

scored 145/200 (73%) on the simulated mbe, 92%ile. For all the study smart MBE practice Qs, i was at 68% correct. I've done all the homework, watched every lecture and read the entire CMR as assigned for each topic lol embarrassing i know, literally have done everything except some of the personal homework they assigned. i really don't want to fuck this test up and i am banking on crushing the mbe bc i am super worried about my essays bc i suck at writing.

I'm now worried about staying sharp on all the mbe topics over the next month. I did significantly worse on crim law/pro (like 16/29 i think) vs the other subjects this time around bc crim was the first shit we covered in barbri and i hadn't looked at it for a few weeks. I forget shit quickly and I'm freaking out that i may have peaked. also the property and contracts questions were hard AF and a lot of the ones i got correct felt lucky
Last edited by Poopface on Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

myrtlewinston
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby myrtlewinston » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:00 pm

stronitsing wrote:Particularly in NY, how are you guys approaching Professional Responsibility? Lecture seemed a bit in-depth but looks like only a few topics have been tested in the past. Regardless, I don't want to ignore full topics.


I'm reading an outline and memorising the tested rules. It is boring.

EvelynS
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby EvelynS » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:32 pm

I am not sure if it was asked already. My brain is somewhat unresponsive right now. Does anyone know what percentile rank in StudySmart means? If it says that percentile rank in certain subject is, for example, 72%, does it mean that your performance is at that level or should you compare it to your score somehow? I know it is probably a not so smart question, but if someone can explain it to me, it will be greatly appreciated.

Backpacker
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Backpacker » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:35 pm

EvelynS wrote:I am not sure if it was asked already. My brain is somewhat unresponsive right now. Does anyone know what percentile rank in StudySmart means? If it says that percentile rank in certain subject is, for example, 72%, does it mean that your performance is at that level or should you compare it to your score somehow? I know it is probably a not so smart question, but if someone can explain it to me, it will be greatly appreciated.


Your percentile rank means youve scored better than 71% of the people who have worked the questions. There should be two bars on your charts, one that is %correct, and one that is your percentile.

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3|ink
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:15 am

If I could turn back time, I would outline every single MBE class (except civil procedure) from the CMR. Basically every other lecture glossed over way too much. The videos were not worth my time to watch.

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:38 am

3|ink wrote:If I could turn back time, I would outline every single MBE class (except civil procedure) from the CMR. Basically every other lecture glossed over way too much. The videos were not worth my time to watch.


I think knowing the CMR prepares you very well for Barbri's own questions, but not necessarily for the real MBE. I'm still not sure to what extent the CMR/AMP rules are covered on the real thing, or if a lot of is just overkill. My biggest gripe with Barbri is how its unrealistic difficulty scares you into overstudying too many obscure rules (or worse, the wrong rules). For example, the Emanuel questions feel really different from Barbri: the way they are written, what they test, and the nature of the explanations (i.e. Emanuel Qs' explanations are heavily based on Restatements, which means a dose of common sense seems to get you a lot farther than Barbri randomly pulling wtf rules out of its ass).

But at the end of the day, we gotta keep in mind that the bar is not a law school exam. A lot of us feel like we may be struggling because we're not in "A" territory since we're so used to LS. But this is a test of minimal competency and I think what is passing is way lower than most of us think it is.
Last edited by Neff on Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rinkrat19
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:39 am

Dumb question: is the simulated MBE provided by Barbri made of Barbri questions or real exam questions?

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innertron
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby innertron » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:48 am

LawGuy321 wrote:
RaleighStClair wrote:
ohhoney wrote:Okay so I've only watched the evidence MBE analysis video, but it's honestly just kind of confusing and worthless. I'll give property a shot next, since another poster said it was useful, but y'all might be better off just reading the explanatory answers. Ugh, Barbri.


All they do is read through the pre-printed answers. Unless you need them to stay on pace going through (for motivation or whatever), you're better off just going through them without the video. You can take more time on questions you need, focus on deeper issues they don't discuss, and skip explanations you don't need to hear.


How do the MBE analysis videos compare to the post-Workshops Analysis lectures? I've been doing the Workshops and then watching the videos as I follow the question answers, and I'm really liking them. So far, I've found them more helpful than the real lectures (also, if you haven't seen it, the CrimLaw one is particularly good and funny...the prof is great).

I haven't done Simulated yet, but I plan to do the analysis videos the same way I'm doing the workshop analysis lectures -- you obviously don't need every question, so even on 2X, you get a bit of a breather to write down/go through those areas of the topic you really need to know. So, e.g., if there are 3 questions on the CrimLaw that I got right and had no questions on, I read ahead to a question I missed or doubted and try to figure out exactly why I got it wrong/what i was missing. Then, it gets immediately reinforced when the lecture gets to that question. I'm enjoying the process!


I have also found that the post MBE simulated [puke] [slap across the face] :oops: MBE videos are helping me much more than the lectures.

Kage3212
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:53 am

https://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=% ... ument%2F17

Has anyone taken this free NCBE test? If so, how did you fare? I am working through it now as I just finished my last substantive lecture a few minutes ago, and without having reviewed other subjects. Would like to see how "my knowledge" compares to others based on this relative sample.

EDIT: For other takers, 13/21 here. Clearly have to go back and start the reviewing process to get up to snuff.

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:53 am

I know we're all in a similar position, and I'm assuming most of us are taking this for the first time, but I was wondering if you all have any theories or plans to prepare for the essay questions. I'm mainly referring to the MEE - as I'm in a UBE state.

My scores on MBE questions are pretty good; certainly passable, and I'm realistically hoping for a 145-150 on game day, scaled. But the essays that I've done so far (which is the first two for each of the subject covered so far - i.e., all that BarBri has assigned me) have been HORRIBLE. Like, I would be lucky if I got a 120 on those (scaled to MBE score). And this even goes sometimes for when I do one open book. I think my main problem, which is probably pretty predictable, is that when I see a question on the MBE, I know what the answer is, but it's hard for me to explain exactly why until I see the answer choices. This is a huge problem for essays, seeing as you have to be able to identify a rule, but also all the sub parts of the rule, and defenses, etc. This sounds stupid, and like I've never taken a law school exam before, but I don't know what else to do.

I don't know. Just hoping for a strong enough score on the MBE to outweigh my essays. Thank God for a 50% MBE weight in my state, and the 20% MPT, but I don't know if it'll even be enough with where I'm at right now on essays.

Kage3212
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:21 am

RaleighStClair wrote:I know we're all in a similar position, and I'm assuming most of us are taking this for the first time, but I was wondering if you all have any theories or plans to prepare for the essay questions. I'm mainly referring to the MEE - as I'm in a UBE state.

My scores on MBE questions are pretty good; certainly passable, and I'm realistically hoping for a 145-150 on game day, scaled. But the essays that I've done so far (which is the first two for each of the subject covered so far - i.e., all that BarBri has assigned me) have been HORRIBLE. Like, I would be lucky if I got a 120 on those (scaled to MBE score). And this even goes sometimes for when I do one open book. I think my main problem, which is probably pretty predictable, is that when I see a question on the MBE, I know what the answer is, but it's hard for me to explain exactly why until I see the answer choices. This is a huge problem for essays, seeing as you have to be able to identify a rule, but also all the sub parts of the rule, and defenses, etc. This sounds stupid, and like I've never taken a law school exam before, but I don't know what else to do.

I don't know. Just hoping for a strong enough score on the MBE to outweigh my essays. Thank God for a 50% MBE weight in my state, and the 20% MPT, but I don't know if it'll even be enough with where I'm at right now on essays.


When you dont know a rule, you make the damn rule up. For example, say a torts questions dealing with attractive nuisance. That damn rule has like 5 or 6 different elements, I dont know them at this point. My best guess would be: Landowner has an obligation to protect against this type of danger on land when 1) landowner knows that kids are in the area, 2) that those kids would reasonably be expected to enter her property, 3) that the condition is one which is likely to cause harm, and 4) the utility of diminishing the likelihood of the harm is not that great. Then, based on whatever your conclusion is, you apply facts to whatever rule you created to reach that conclusion.

One of our essay lecturers said it is all about making up a rule (if you dont know it) that has reasonable elements, BUT the major points come from application of the facts to the rule (also, use buzzwords associated with the rule if you can recall). He said bar examiners grade on a touch screen and just keep pressing buttons on the touchscreen when they see noteworthy things, ie buzzwords, reasonable elements, some semblance of a rule, application, etc.. If you can make up reasonable rules and apply facts to them, you have a pretty damn good shot at getting through. In fact, in some of the "passing answers" that we covered in that lecture (given from our states bar examiners) contained rules with incorrect elements, but the applicant applied the facts to their rules to reach their stated conclusion. You can't remember everything, what you can do is REASON your way through (i.e. sophisticated faking) to score a passing answer.

bigbobbybass
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby bigbobbybass » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

Kage3212 wrote:He said bar examiners grade on a touch screen and just keep pressing buttons on the touchscreen when they see noteworthy things, ie buzzwords, reasonable elements, some semblance of a rule, application, etc..


Out of curiosity, do you remember which lecturer said they graded on touch screens? I don't remember hearing anyone say that.

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RaleighStClair
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby RaleighStClair » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:31 am

Kage3212 wrote:
RaleighStClair wrote:I know we're all in a similar position, and I'm assuming most of us are taking this for the first time, but I was wondering if you all have any theories or plans to prepare for the essay questions. I'm mainly referring to the MEE - as I'm in a UBE state.

My scores on MBE questions are pretty good; certainly passable, and I'm realistically hoping for a 145-150 on game day, scaled. But the essays that I've done so far (which is the first two for each of the subject covered so far - i.e., all that BarBri has assigned me) have been HORRIBLE. Like, I would be lucky if I got a 120 on those (scaled to MBE score). And this even goes sometimes for when I do one open book. I think my main problem, which is probably pretty predictable, is that when I see a question on the MBE, I know what the answer is, but it's hard for me to explain exactly why until I see the answer choices. This is a huge problem for essays, seeing as you have to be able to identify a rule, but also all the sub parts of the rule, and defenses, etc. This sounds stupid, and like I've never taken a law school exam before, but I don't know what else to do.

I don't know. Just hoping for a strong enough score on the MBE to outweigh my essays. Thank God for a 50% MBE weight in my state, and the 20% MPT, but I don't know if it'll even be enough with where I'm at right now on essays.


When you dont know a rule, you make the damn rule up. For example, say a torts questions dealing with attractive nuisance. That damn rule has like 5 or 6 different elements, I dont know them at this point. My best guess would be: Landowner has an obligation to protect against this type of danger on land when 1) landowner knows that kids are in the area, 2) that those kids would reasonably be expected to enter her property, 3) that the condition is one which is likely to cause harm, and 4) the utility of diminishing the likelihood of the harm is not that great. Then, based on whatever your conclusion is, you apply facts to whatever rule you created to reach that conclusion.

One of our essay lecturers said it is all about making up a rule (if you dont know it) that has reasonable elements, BUT the major points come from application of the facts to the rule (also, use buzzwords associated with the rule if you can recall). He said bar examiners grade on a touch screen and just keep pressing buttons on the touchscreen when they see noteworthy things, ie buzzwords, reasonable elements, some semblance of a rule, application, etc.. If you can make up reasonable rules and apply facts to them, you have a pretty damn good shot at getting through. In fact, in some of the "passing answers" that we covered in that lecture (given from our states bar examiners) contained rules with incorrect elements, but the applicant applied the facts to their rules to reach their stated conclusion. You can't remember everything, what you can do is REASON your way through (i.e. sophisticated faking) to score a passing answer.


Thanks. That's a good call. Makes me feel better about the BSing I'm doing.

In response to your previous post...I got 12/21 on those sample q's. So much for being so strong on the MBE... :oops:

Kage3212
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Kage3212 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:38 am

bigbobbybass wrote:
Kage3212 wrote:He said bar examiners grade on a touch screen and just keep pressing buttons on the touchscreen when they see noteworthy things, ie buzzwords, reasonable elements, some semblance of a rule, application, etc..


Out of curiosity, do you remember which lecturer said they graded on touch screens? I don't remember hearing anyone say that.


This was in a PA specific Essay Workshop. If you are in PA, it was the second Essay Workshop video (completed just last week). If you are not, your bar examiners may use a different process. Maybe something you could ask your state specific lecturer about via Barbri.

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charlesxavier
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby charlesxavier » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:54 am

Neff wrote:
3|ink wrote:If I could turn back time, I would outline every single MBE class (except civil procedure) from the CMR. Basically every other lecture glossed over way too much. The videos were not worth my time to watch.


I think knowing the CMR prepares you very well for Barbri's own questions, but not necessarily for the real MBE. I'm still not sure to what extent the CMR/AMP rules are covered on the real thing, or if a lot of is just overkill. My biggest gripe with Barbri is how its unrealistic difficulty scares you into overstudying too many obscure rules (or worse, the wrong rules). For example, the Emanuel questions feel really different from Barbri: the way they are written, what they test, and the nature of the explanations (i.e. Emanuel Qs' explanations are heavily based on Restatements, which means a dose of common sense seems to get you a lot farther than Barbri randomly pulling wtf rules out of its ass).

But at the end of the day, we gotta keep in mind that the bar is not a law school exam. A lot of us feel like we may be struggling because we're not in "A" territory since we're so used to LS. But this is a test of minimal competency and I think what is passing is way lower than most of us think it is.


From everything I've read/heard it seems like the barbri lectures are enough to help you pass. I think they're based on the most tested topics. Sure, you might miss a question here or there that you could have learned from the CMR but you are also responsible for learning significantly less material.

Ineedhelpplease
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Ineedhelpplease » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:48 am

Reading everybody's updates,makes me really wish I would have stuck it through with Barbri from the beginning. I now feel like I am in mans land.. just me, emmanuels and some condensed Barbri outlines from some friends...

mr.hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mr.hands » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:51 am

Ineedhelpplease wrote:Reading everybody's updates,makes me really wish I would have stuck it through with Barbri from the beginning. I now feel like I am in mans land.. just me, emmanuels and some condensed Barbri outlines from some friends...


When do we start memorizing all these rules? In my state, the MBE is worth less than 50% and I haven't had time to sit down with outlines and memorize state specific rules. I've still got three lecture videos to watch (each about 3 hours) and i'm reasonably caught up with the PSP...

This is miserable and i feel like i'm going to fail

kykiske
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kykiske » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:59 am

Checking in.

Now re-working the earlier MBE sets I completely bombed--e.g. 4/18, 5/18, etc.

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3|ink
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:22 am

mr.hands wrote:
Ineedhelpplease wrote:Reading everybody's updates,makes me really wish I would have stuck it through with Barbri from the beginning. I now feel like I am in mans land.. just me, emmanuels and some condensed Barbri outlines from some friends...


When do we start memorizing all these rules? In my state, the MBE is worth less than 50% and I haven't had time to sit down with outlines and memorize state specific rules. I've still got three lecture videos to watch (each about 3 hours) and i'm reasonably caught up with the PSP...

This is miserable and i feel like i'm going to fail

Sounds like you're ahead of the average person.

mushybrain
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mushybrain » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:27 am

...is the opening bit to CA Corporations identical to CA Agency & Partnership? It gave me the creeps.

Hedgehog25
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Hedgehog25 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:19 pm

Does anyone feel like the Barbri essay grading is too lenient? On two closed-book graded essays, I've gotten bad a 5/6 and 4/6 - both passing scores. On the 4/6, I missed a few issues but the grader passed me anyway. The comments have been pretty positive. I was expecting harsh comments and low scores based on everything I've read here--has anyone had a similar experience?

Edited to add: I'm taking the MD bar.

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charlesxavier
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby charlesxavier » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:40 pm

Hedgehog25 wrote:Does anyone feel like the Barbri essay grading is too lenient? On two closed-book graded essays, I've gotten bad a 5/6 and 4/6 - both passing scores. On the 4/6, I missed a few issues but the grader passed me anyway. The comments have been pretty positive. I was expecting harsh comments and low scores based on everything I've read here--has anyone had a similar experience?

Edited to add: I'm taking the MD bar.


It really depends on the grader but the common feel seems to be that the graders are tough. With that said, I wrote two very similar essays and one was a 3/7 and the other was a 7/7. Who knows... In the end, neither was really helpful to me.

mr.hands
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby mr.hands » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:46 pm

charlesxavier wrote:
Hedgehog25 wrote:Does anyone feel like the Barbri essay grading is too lenient? On two closed-book graded essays, I've gotten bad a 5/6 and 4/6 - both passing scores. On the 4/6, I missed a few issues but the grader passed me anyway. The comments have been pretty positive. I was expecting harsh comments and low scores based on everything I've read here--has anyone had a similar experience?

Edited to add: I'm taking the MD bar.


It really depends on the grader but the common feel seems to be that the graders are tough. With that said, I wrote two very similar essays and one was a 3/7 and the other was a 7/7. Who knows... In the end, neither was really helpful to me.


Yeah mine tend to be incredibly tough. I misstated a single rule on one part of a three part essay and failed the entire thing. The rest of the essay had no errors or criticism from the grader. It's just absurd.

So it sounds like there's no real consistency among graders

Neff
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Neff » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:52 pm

mr.hands wrote:
charlesxavier wrote:
Hedgehog25 wrote:Does anyone feel like the Barbri essay grading is too lenient? On two closed-book graded essays, I've gotten bad a 5/6 and 4/6 - both passing scores. On the 4/6, I missed a few issues but the grader passed me anyway. The comments have been pretty positive. I was expecting harsh comments and low scores based on everything I've read here--has anyone had a similar experience?

Edited to add: I'm taking the MD bar.


It really depends on the grader but the common feel seems to be that the graders are tough. With that said, I wrote two very similar essays and one was a 3/7 and the other was a 7/7. Who knows... In the end, neither was really helpful to me.


Yeah mine tend to be incredibly tough. I misstated a single rule on one part of a three part essay and failed the entire thing. The rest of the essay had no errors or criticism from the grader. It's just absurd.

So it sounds like there's no real consistency among graders


Their grading is a complete joke. You're much better off self-grading. For one of them they wrote two unhelpful comments. For another I failed even though I copied the model answer.

For essays I've been following the advice in the other thread. Reading and typing out the sample answers, verbatim, instead of actually trying to do them, whether open- or closed-book. I've heard that so many questions are repeats or variations of old questions, so (at least in my state) essays are more of a regurgitation game than about actual thinking.

victortsoi
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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby victortsoi » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:06 pm

Really need some help with the essays here, I've put off really doing them after my graded essay, but want to start up again. How many do you guys suggest doing open book vs. closed book?
I feel like I usually "get" the answer, but leave out elements of the rule too much. Don't know the best targeted way to rectify this.




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