BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

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brotherdarkness

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by brotherdarkness » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:39 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:Any problems using issue preclusion between criminal and civil cases. Example: State charges Dave with murder of Victoria. Dave is found guilty of murdering Victoria. Now Victoria's estate wants to bring a wrongful death action (or something) against Dave. Victoria's estate can use offensive collateral estoppel to conclusively establish that Dave did in fact kill Victoria?
Yep. Fine to use offensively as long as not unfair to the other side. Would be ok there.
Hm okay. I remember reading something about how this might be a problem because of different burdens of proof in various types of cases, but I don't remember the context (criminal/civil, or something totally different).

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Tiago Splitter

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by Tiago Splitter » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:47 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:Any problems using issue preclusion between criminal and civil cases. Example: State charges Dave with murder of Victoria. Dave is found guilty of murdering Victoria. Now Victoria's estate wants to bring a wrongful death action (or something) against Dave. Victoria's estate can use offensive collateral estoppel to conclusively establish that Dave did in fact kill Victoria?
Yep. Fine to use offensively as long as not unfair to the other side. Would be ok there.
Hm okay. I remember reading something about how this might be a problem because of different burdens of proof in various types of cases, but I don't remember the context (criminal/civil, or something totally different).
Yeah the state wouldn't be able to do it in its case against Dave because the standard of proof is higher, but issue preclusion in a wrongful death case after a murder conviction happens all the time.

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brotherdarkness

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by brotherdarkness » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:53 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:Any problems using issue preclusion between criminal and civil cases. Example: State charges Dave with murder of Victoria. Dave is found guilty of murdering Victoria. Now Victoria's estate wants to bring a wrongful death action (or something) against Dave. Victoria's estate can use offensive collateral estoppel to conclusively establish that Dave did in fact kill Victoria?
Yep. Fine to use offensively as long as not unfair to the other side. Would be ok there.
Hm okay. I remember reading something about how this might be a problem because of different burdens of proof in various types of cases, but I don't remember the context (criminal/civil, or something totally different).
Yeah the state wouldn't be able to do it in its case against Dave because the standard of proof is higher, but issue preclusion in a wrongful death case after a murder conviction happens all the time.
I think I'm a bit dense, so bear with me. If the civil case for wrongful death was before the criminal case, the state couldn't subsequently use issue preclusion in its criminal case?

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rickgrimes69

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by rickgrimes69 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:57 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:Any problems using issue preclusion between criminal and civil cases. Example: State charges Dave with murder of Victoria. Dave is found guilty of murdering Victoria. Now Victoria's estate wants to bring a wrongful death action (or something) against Dave. Victoria's estate can use offensive collateral estoppel to conclusively establish that Dave did in fact kill Victoria?
Yep. Fine to use offensively as long as not unfair to the other side. Would be ok there.
Hm okay. I remember reading something about how this might be a problem because of different burdens of proof in various types of cases, but I don't remember the context (criminal/civil, or something totally different).
Yeah the state wouldn't be able to do it in its case against Dave because the standard of proof is higher, but issue preclusion in a wrongful death case after a murder conviction happens all the time.
I think I'm a bit dense, so bear with me. If the civil case for wrongful death was before the criminal case, the state couldn't subsequently use issue preclusion in its criminal case?
Correct, because the burden of proof is higher in criminal cases. You could do it the other way around, though.

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brotherdarkness

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by brotherdarkness » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:59 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:Correct, because the burden of proof is higher in criminal cases. You could do it the other way around, though.
Great, got it. Thanks!

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Kage3212

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by Kage3212 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:08 pm

Have we determined whether Barbri scores our essays based on raw or scaled scores?

Isn't true in every state that essay scores are scaled as well? If so, what kind of bump is usually given to essays?

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Good Guy Gaud

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by Good Guy Gaud » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:13 pm

Kage3212 wrote:Have we determined whether Barbri scores our essays based on raw or scaled scores?

Isn't true in every state that essay scores are scaled as well? If so, what kind of bump is usually given to essays?
also interested (in AZ, they are scaled to 100 and I have no idea how it gets there)

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by jamescastle » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:28 pm

Doing an old question set I had never gotten around to and was greeted with this in the BARBRI answer:

This question is difficult because each of the choices appears to present a good argument.

:x

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by Poopface » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:10 am

kykiske wrote:Random thought when jamming to Taylor Swift in the shower:

Let's say you score a 130/200 on Barbri's simulated MBE. And because of the "Barbri" effect, on exam day, you score a 140/200. Then, you get 15 points added to your scaled score. 155/200 scaled.
does everyone get the same amount added to their raw score? like does someone who scores 120 raw get 15 added to get to 135 scaled, and someone who gets a 135 raw also gets 15 added to get to 150 scaled? or is it like a % bump instead of a hard # bump?

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kyle010723

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by kyle010723 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:15 am

Poopface wrote: does everyone get the same amount added to their raw score? like does someone who scores 120 raw get 15 added to get to 135 scaled, and someone who gets a 135 raw also gets 15 added to get to 150 scaled? or is it like a % bump instead of a hard # bump?
No, it is a scaled score, by some magical formula that NCBE applies. +15 is just a conventional wisdom

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Good Guy Gaud

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by Good Guy Gaud » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:18 am

kyle010723 wrote:
Poopface wrote: does everyone get the same amount added to their raw score? like does someone who scores 120 raw get 15 added to get to 135 scaled, and someone who gets a 135 raw also gets 15 added to get to 150 scaled? or is it like a % bump instead of a hard # bump?
No, it is a scaled score, by some magical formula that NCBE applies. +15 is just a conventional wisdom
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... GU&cad=rja

link to a pdf with raw score conversions (not sure how accurate it is but because i have nothing else to go off of i'll accept it)

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brotherdarkness

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by brotherdarkness » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:21 am

Good Guy Gaud wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:
Poopface wrote: does everyone get the same amount added to their raw score? like does someone who scores 120 raw get 15 added to get to 135 scaled, and someone who gets a 135 raw also gets 15 added to get to 150 scaled? or is it like a % bump instead of a hard # bump?
No, it is a scaled score, by some magical formula that NCBE applies. +15 is just a conventional wisdom
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... GU&cad=rja

link to a pdf with raw score conversions (not sure how accurate it is but because i have nothing else to go off of i'll accept it)
No one scored higher than a 173 raw? That's an impressive score, but I assumed that there'd be a couple of people out there acing the MBE.

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RaleighStClair

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by RaleighStClair » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:23 am

Poopface wrote:
kykiske wrote:Random thought when jamming to Taylor Swift in the shower:

Let's say you score a 130/200 on Barbri's simulated MBE. And because of the "Barbri" effect, on exam day, you score a 140/200. Then, you get 15 points added to your scaled score. 155/200 scaled.
does everyone get the same amount added to their raw score? like does someone who scores 120 raw get 15 added to get to 135 scaled, and someone who gets a 135 raw also gets 15 added to get to 150 scaled? or is it like a % bump instead of a hard # bump?
I don't think anyone knows exactly how it's scaled. I know it varies test to test. But - hate to be a downer here - remember the raw is out of 190 on the real thing. 10 are experimental/ungraded.

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Kage3212

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by Kage3212 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:38 am

Is anyone actually completing the "Review CMR Outline" assignments from the actual CMR? Or rather or you just using the time to go back over lecture notes?

jamescastle

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by jamescastle » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:40 am

Kage3212 wrote:Is anyone actually completing the "Review CMR Outline" assignments from the actual CMR? Or rather or you just using the time to go back over lecture notes?
I use the time to go over my outlines/lecture notes/whatever I'm using to review for that subject. But once I make that material I don't look at the CMR again unless it's to verify something I missed in an essay.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by victortsoi » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:42 am

Kage3212 wrote:Is anyone actually completing the "Review CMR Outline" assignments from the actual CMR? Or rather or you just using the time to go back over lecture notes?

I just read the outlines that I have/ smart bar essay outlines and check it off

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by N.P.H. » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:46 am

how worthwhile are the test review videos?? i already reviewed my answers. does it give tips and tricks or is it just basically a video of the explanations?

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kyle010723

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by kyle010723 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:48 am

N.P.H. wrote:how worthwhile are the test review videos?? i already reviewed my answers. does it give tips and tricks or is it just basically a video of the explanations?
Nothing ground shattering. Except you get to learn about how to pass the real estate licensing exam.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by kyle010723 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:50 am

Kage3212 wrote:Is anyone actually completing the "Review CMR Outline" assignments from the actual CMR? Or rather or you just using the time to go back over lecture notes?
I am going over lecture notes, except the state distinctions, I flipped through those in CMR (not really all that important in my state).

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by 3|ink » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:01 am

N.P.H. wrote:how worthwhile are the test review videos?? i already reviewed my answers. does it give tips and tricks or is it just basically a video of the explanations?
Yep. I've completely abandoned barbri.

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to print out all 27 outlines and read them all one-by-one the next few days.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by smokeylarue » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:02 am

Just HOW different is Emmanuel questions compared to Barbri. I've done pretty much all the Barbri MBE practice questions possible, I've seen a lot of comments in this thread that they "feel different." Are the BARBRI questions that different than the real thing?

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kyle010723

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by kyle010723 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:03 am

smokeylarue wrote:Just HOW different is Emmanuel questions compared to Barbri. I've done pretty much all the Barbri MBE practice questions possible, I've seen a lot of comments in this thread that they "feel different." Are the BARBRI questions that different than the real thing?
No clue about the "real thing" since none of us took it yet. Emanuel "feels" very different as in its questions make you feel uncomfortable. But usually ended up doing ok percentage wise.

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Good Guy Gaud

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by Good Guy Gaud » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:08 am

smokeylarue wrote:Just HOW different is Emmanuel questions compared to Barbri. I've done pretty much all the Barbri MBE practice questions possible, I've seen a lot of comments in this thread that they "feel different." Are the BARBRI questions that different than the real thing?
They're pretty different but what you've learned in BarBri will still typically get you to the correct answer choice. I think most of us see improved scores with Emanual's (which are all actual questions [save for the civ pro] as far as I understand it) as compared to BarBri's.

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by kyle010723 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:15 am

Good Guy Gaud wrote: They're pretty different but what you've learned in BarBri will still typically get you to the correct answer choice. I think most of us see improved scores with Emanual's (which are all actual questions [save for the civ pro] as far as I understand it) as compared to BarBri's.
Emanuel S&T is a compilation of released questions, S&T2 are questions written by Emanuel himself (I think)?

On that note, did anyone read the subject notes on Emanuel (the few pages before question sets)? I dove right into questions so I skipped them. Are they worth reading?

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Re: BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Post by anozira » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:17 am

thewaterlanding wrote:My dad was diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer like 3-4 weeks ago.
Sorry to hear that. I lost my Dad to cancer during law school. My biggest regret is not spending more time with him. Instead, I was too focused on grades and studying instead of maximizing my time with my Dad. Don't make that mistake. There will always be another opportunity to take the bar exam. But you won't have another opportunity to spend this precious time with your father. Just one perspective from someone who, unfortunately, has been through what you're going through. PM me if you ever need to talk or vent.

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