July, 2016 Exam Update - How to Pass the Bar Exam (MEE Predictions, Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Kage3212
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby Kage3212 » Fri May 29, 2015 10:25 pm

UndecidedMN wrote:
MPTPWZ1026 wrote:
myrtlewinston wrote:
UndecidedMN wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:I've got the Critical Pass flashcards sitting in front of me. How should I use them? Should I go through an entire subject all at once on the day we cover the topic, adding state-specific distinctions/notes as required? How did everyone else use them?

I'm using Kaplan, FTR.


I used them as a resource after the lecture. I took my lecture notes and added to the cards where I think I was lacking. Until I really had a subject down, I would go through like five or ten at a time. Once I got them well enough, I would go through the next five. In the last two weeks I was going through a subject at a time. Usually took about a half-hour to an hour once I had them really down.


Did you do anything to prepare for the lectures?

You're right. As much as I'd like to make my own flashcards, that time and energy is better saved for practise and memorisation.

It's only been a week, and I'm rebelling against Barbri. ;-)


I just use them with Barbri. I read the CMR to "prepare" for the lecture. I then watch the lecture and fill out the lecture notes while also adding anything the cards are lacking to them. It's mainly bar tips and then all caps for things like "always tested," "rarely tested," or "know this well." I plan on using them for my after subject review if I can ever get around to actually doing it.


Essentially what I did, although not the rarely tested part. If you guys want, I can make a doc that has my notes on each card with the card numbers listed. Only will do this if people actually want it because it is a ton of work.


I won't say no! I think everything in here has been tremendously useful, so if you have the time to do this, I would very much appreciate marking my cards accordingly! Thanks again for your time and efforts.

myrtlewinston
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby myrtlewinston » Sat May 30, 2015 12:28 am

UndecidedMN wrote:Something else I would emphasis. I would not really spend time on essays right now, but more on the multiple choice for MBE subjects. You have taken numerous essay questions in law school, but not really if any multiple choice. Just getting used to the format of the MBE question can make a world of difference. GL.


I messed up the first two practice essays. :oops: I didn't write many essays after my 1L year as I concentrated on tax.

UndecidedMN
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby UndecidedMN » Sat May 30, 2015 12:30 am

myrtlewinston wrote:
UndecidedMN wrote:Something else I would emphasis. I would not really spend time on essays right now, but more on the multiple choice for MBE subjects. You have taken numerous essay questions in law school, but not really if any multiple choice. Just getting used to the format of the MBE question can make a world of difference. GL.


I messed up the first two practice essays. :oops: I didn't write many essays after my 1L year as I concentrated on tax.


LOL!! Serious? Actually I completely focus on tax and now am in a public service job specializing in Tax Law.

myrtlewinston
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby myrtlewinston » Sat May 30, 2015 12:35 am

Yay! My fellow tax geek. :mrgreen:

How do you like your job?

I took every tax class available. Since my school has a tax LLM programme, there were quite a few. I also did a couple of research projects on tax policy.

UndecidedMN
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby UndecidedMN » Sat May 30, 2015 12:40 am

myrtlewinston wrote:Yay! My fellow tax geek. :mrgreen:

How do you like your job?

I took every tax class available. Since my school has a tax LLM programme, there were quite a few. I also did a couple of research projects on tax policy.


Not part of this thread. But I am happy to help anyone if they are interested in Tax Law and the tax attorney profession. I did substantial research on the litigation and transactional route, especially in my market and on getting an LLM. Actually was accepted to NYU Tax LLM but declined going for a bunch of reasons. PM me if you have any questions.

myrtlewinston
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby myrtlewinston » Sat May 30, 2015 1:21 am

Off-topic:
I spent a year in the tax department of a big corporate firm and ran. If only there were still boutique practices.

On-topic:
Please tell me my nasty essay results are not predictive!

UndecidedMN
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby UndecidedMN » Sat May 30, 2015 1:26 am

Off-Topic.

In the twin cities, litigation is strictly boutique. Big-Law and Accounting firms dominate the transactional.

On-Topic

Essay results early are on are not indicative. Learning the material is more important right now. Get the barbri way down later in writing the essay and you'll be fine once you know the material. I would take advantage of Barbri grading your essay. Feedback never hurts.

Zebra
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby Zebra » Sat May 30, 2015 8:47 am

UndecidedMN wrote:
MPTPWZ1026 wrote:
myrtlewinston wrote:
UndecidedMN wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:I've got the Critical Pass flashcards sitting in front of me. How should I use them? Should I go through an entire subject all at once on the day we cover the topic, adding state-specific distinctions/notes as required? How did everyone else use them?

I'm using Kaplan, FTR.


I used them as a resource after the lecture. I took my lecture notes and added to the cards where I think I was lacking. Until I really had a subject down, I would go through like five or ten at a time. Once I got them well enough, I would go through the next five. In the last two weeks I was going through a subject at a time. Usually took about a half-hour to an hour once I had them really down.


Did you do anything to prepare for the lectures?

You're right. As much as I'd like to make my own flashcards, that time and energy is better saved for practise and memorisation.

It's only been a week, and I'm rebelling against Barbri. ;-)


I just use them with Barbri. I read the CMR to "prepare" for the lecture. I then watch the lecture and fill out the lecture notes while also adding anything the cards are lacking to them. It's mainly bar tips and then all caps for things like "always tested," "rarely tested," or "know this well." I plan on using them for my after subject review if I can ever get around to actually doing it.


Essentially what I did, although not the rarely tested part. If you guys want, I can make a doc that has my notes on each card with the card numbers listed. Only will do this if people actually want it because it is a ton of work.
Last edited by Zebra on Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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northwood
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby northwood » Sat May 30, 2015 5:13 pm

I would also suggest doing at least 25-40 MBE questions per day, mixed topics (even if you haven't gotten to the topics yet) and at least read one essay answer for your jurisdiction each day.

MBE- there is a pattern for how the questions are written, and how each question type has correct answers, and red herrings. The more you are acquainted with these questions, the better you will be, as I believe it is equally as important to know the law AND know how to answer the question AND know what they are really asking/ what the fact pattern is telling you. SO while you will become acquainted with different areas of law that maybe you haven't studied in 3 years ( or at all) you will also be able to differentiate the question type and question subject to see what questions and topics are frequently tested.

As for the essays, one of the biggest thing is to know what the graders are looking for, both structurally and in the answers. Some jurisdictions want you to break down each question into mini questions, others do not. The graders will not spend a lot of time reading your answers so presenting your response in the format that is favored ( do you bold definitions, do you underline key phases, do you IRAC, or CREAC and how you present your opening question) may increase the odds that the grader will be able to give you maximum points.

You need to be fresh for both the MBE and the Essays. The best way to hone your skills is by daily, repetitive practice.

I would also strongly suggest handwriting a few essays... When I took the exam, my computer died at the start of Essay Day and I was forced to handwrite. Luckily I practiced for just an event- and it didn't faze me. And I passed the Exam.

orangecup
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby orangecup » Sat May 30, 2015 5:27 pm

northwood wrote:I would also suggest doing at least 25-40 MBE questions per day, mixed topics (even if you haven't gotten to the topics yet) and at least read one essay answer for your jurisdiction each day.

MBE- there is a pattern for how the questions are written, and how each question type has correct answers, and red herrings. The more you are acquainted with these questions, the better you will be, as I believe it is equally as important to know the law AND know how to answer the question AND know what they are really asking/ what the fact pattern is telling you. SO while you will become acquainted with different areas of law that maybe you haven't studied in 3 years ( or at all) you will also be able to differentiate the question type and question subject to see what questions and topics are frequently tested.

As for the essays, one of the biggest thing is to know what the graders are looking for, both structurally and in the answers. Some jurisdictions want you to break down each question into mini questions, others do not. The graders will not spend a lot of time reading your answers so presenting your response in the format that is favored ( do you bold definitions, do you underline key phases, do you IRAC, or CREAC and how you present your opening question) may increase the odds that the grader will be able to give you maximum points.

You need to be fresh for both the MBE and the Essays. The best way to hone your skills is by daily, repetitive practice.

I would also strongly suggest handwriting a few essays... When I took the exam, my computer died at the start of Essay Day and I was forced to handwrite. Luckily I practiced for just an event- and it didn't faze me. And I passed the Exam.


I know you mentioned finding a pattern for the MBE Questions, but what's the theory behind doing them for topics we haven't touched yet? Aren't we likely to get most of those wrong?

For reading essay answers, should we just read the fact pattern and take in the answers passively? We obviously haven't learned NY specific law yet (e.g.,) so it's hard to actually write something. The intro video for Kaplan already described how to approach the problems (IRAC, interrogatories basically lay out your headings, etc).

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northwood
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby northwood » Sat May 30, 2015 6:04 pm

It brings familiarity to the topic and also allows you to obtain strategies to use when you don't really know a sub-topic well (like mortgages for example). Plus, the more you practice will help you find most frequently tested sub-topics for each subject and help see how the question makers assess these topic areas.

Knowing how to answer an essay question and actually answering them in that manner are not always one and the same. The more practice you put in, the more accustomed you will be in answering the question as effectively and efficiently as possible. FWIW I at outlined one essay every other day when I was studying ( it doesn't take that long), and ended up writing out 30 full essays.

The way I took my approach was this: I only want to take this test once and I have the time to fully devote to the test without worrying about loan repayments/ working now- BUT not later. So I made sure to do everything in my power to achieve my goal. Now, did I study all day every day? No- Not until July 6th. Until that time, I still went out and had fun at night, enjoyed my hobbies and took a random day off here and there. But I made sure to maximize my time and focus on the highly graded areas of the test ( MBE was 40% of the test, Essays were 40%) when I was studying. Even on my days off, I still did 50 MBE questions and jotted down the subjects that I got wrong.

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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby orangecup » Sat May 30, 2015 6:20 pm

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks! When you outlined essays before reaching the state rules, how did you go about doing that? Did you just apply mbe rules so that you got practice with applying facts to SOME law?

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northwood
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby northwood » Sat May 30, 2015 6:31 pm

orangecup wrote:That makes a lot of sense. Thanks! When you outlined essays before reaching the state rules, how did you go about doing that? Did you just apply mbe rules so that you got practice with applying facts to SOME law?


No. I did it open book until I covered the law. It allowed me to practice applying facts to the law- and also allowed me to start working with that area of law. I didn't want to start mixing up MBE rules with State rules- so I tried to keep them as separate as possible. at this point, it is still very early- so just getting your foundation on how to approach the essays is important. Once you have your foundation, then you can start working on memorizing the law and applying it. This is also why I think spending time on essays is important in the beginning.

As a caveat- I also tried to prepare for multiple test day scenarios: I.e. computer failure, how to approach an essay when you have no clue what the law is, so if I encountered it on game day, id at least have plan in place..... ( hopefully you wont need it- but writing out an essay by hand can be a good way to solidify your approach/ law) and wont be completely taken aback if it happens

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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby orangecup » Sat May 30, 2015 6:37 pm

northwood wrote:
orangecup wrote:That makes a lot of sense. Thanks! When you outlined essays before reaching the state rules, how did you go about doing that? Did you just apply mbe rules so that you got practice with applying facts to SOME law?


No. I did it open book until I covered the law. It allowed me to practice applying facts to the law- and also allowed me to start working with that area of law. I didn't want to start mixing up MBE rules with State rules- so I tried to keep them as separate as possible. at this point, it is still very early- so just getting your foundation on how to approach the essays is important. Once you have your foundation, then you can start working on memorizing the law and applying it. This is also why I think spending time on essays is important in the beginning.

As a caveat- I also tried to prepare for multiple test day scenarios: I.e. computer failure, how to approach an essay when you have no clue what the law is, so if I encountered it on game day, id at least have plan in place..... ( hopefully you wont need it- but writing out an essay by hand can be a good way to solidify your approach/ law) and wont be completely taken aback if it happens


I don't know why this didn't cross my mind! That tip is brilliant! I think I definitely have a better grasp on how to proceed with studying for the bar after your response and the others in this thread. Thank you so much!

UndecidedMN
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby UndecidedMN » Sat May 30, 2015 6:45 pm

orangecup wrote:
northwood wrote:
orangecup wrote:That makes a lot of sense. Thanks! When you outlined essays before reaching the state rules, how did you go about doing that? Did you just apply mbe rules so that you got practice with applying facts to SOME law?


No. I did it open book until I covered the law. It allowed me to practice applying facts to the law- and also allowed me to start working with that area of law. I didn't want to start mixing up MBE rules with State rules- so I tried to keep them as separate as possible. at this point, it is still very early- so just getting your foundation on how to approach the essays is important. Once you have your foundation, then you can start working on memorizing the law and applying it. This is also why I think spending time on essays is important in the beginning.

As a caveat- I also tried to prepare for multiple test day scenarios: I.e. computer failure, how to approach an essay when you have no clue what the law is, so if I encountered it on game day, id at least have plan in place..... ( hopefully you wont need it- but writing out an essay by hand can be a good way to solidify your approach/ law) and wont be completely taken aback if it happens


I don't know why this didn't cross my mind! That tip is brilliant! I think I definitely have a better grasp on how to proceed with studying for the bar after your response and the others in this thread. Thank you so much!



Try practicing for examsoft to not upload your answers. Trust me, it has happened. :) I am working on my card notes right now and will upload them soon. It has taken me some time to type them. Also I have only found my torts and evidence cards, but I will get them up tonight.

myrtlewinston
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby myrtlewinston » Sat May 30, 2015 7:29 pm

Thank you, Bar Tutor! You are very kind.

UndecidedMN
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby UndecidedMN » Sat May 30, 2015 9:19 pm

myrtlewinston wrote:Thank you, Bar Tutor! You are very kind.


Per request I have added the notes I put on my flashcards in word docs in my dropbox folder below. I have only found two sets of cards so far, torts and evidence. If I find more I will post them. I am pretty sure those were the big ones. I do not think I added anything to my contracts or property cards. Like I said, I will keep looking. I will talk to a few buddies and see who may also have some things.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2itdi8y50mm9 ... Phcna?dl=0

waxecstatic
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby waxecstatic » Sun May 31, 2015 6:39 pm

If only there were critical pass flashcards for the non-MBE subjects too...

myrtlewinston
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby myrtlewinston » Sun May 31, 2015 8:03 pm

waxecstatic wrote:If only there were critical pass flashcards for the non-MBE subjects too...


I found these: barexamoutlines.com. They are not flashcards, but outlines and/or cheatsheets. Does anyone know anything about them? There's also: leansheets.com

I'd appreciate any viable time-saving tips.

UndecidedMN
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby UndecidedMN » Sun May 31, 2015 8:06 pm

waxecstatic wrote:If only there were critical pass flashcards for the non-MBE subjects too...


Maybe I will make them one day. How were my notes on the flashcards?

UndecidedMN
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby UndecidedMN » Sun May 31, 2015 8:16 pm

myrtlewinston wrote:
waxecstatic wrote:If only there were critical pass flashcards for the non-MBE subjects too...


I found these: barexamoutlines.com. They are not flashcards, but outlines and/or cheatsheets. Does anyone know anything about them? There's also: leansheets.com

I'd appreciate any viable time-saving tips.


Never heard of barexamoutlines.com. I know some people use lean sheets, but I didn't like them. If you are in a UBE state, I believe my short-outlines are fine along with the flash cards.

Myrtlewinston, I think you may be focusing a little too much on materials. Just start learning the material from what you have. Your prep course, flashcards and my outlines give you more than enough to study from. PM me if you wish me to give you more information/tips in detail. Nothing will substitute just craming every bit of information in through countless hours of hard work. What these tips are designed to do is to help you get the most in your head per hour you work. Nothing will substitute the fact that you need to get a ton of stuff in your head. Hopefully I have helped you get what you need in your head as quick as possible.

Outis Onoma
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby Outis Onoma » Sun May 31, 2015 8:20 pm

Did you type up the lecture handouts for the MBE subjects into an outline, or just fill in the lecture handouts by hand?. I'm finding a number of exceptions or detailed rules tested in the MBE questions, that are not in the lecture handouts, and noting them in a word file. Some of the stuff tested in the barbri questions are, for example, not in Chemerinsky's lecture handout, but are noted in the CMR. Should I combine these all in one outline? Or is this a big waste of time, and just focus on rereading the lecture handouts?

UndecidedMN
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)

Postby UndecidedMN » Sun May 31, 2015 8:35 pm

Outis Onoma wrote:Did you type up the lecture handouts for the MBE subjects into an outline, or just fill in the lecture handouts by hand?. I'm finding a number of exceptions or detailed rules tested in the MBE questions, that are not in the lecture handouts, and noting them in a word file. Some of the stuff tested in the barbri questions are, for example, not in Chemerinsky's lecture handout, but are noted in the CMR. Should I combine these all in one outline? Or is this a big waste of time, and just focus on rereading the lecture handouts?


My flashcards were my outline. I filled in the lecture notes by hand. Then for the MBE subjects, I compared my lecture notes to the critical pass flashcards and added where needed. Look at the first post of the forum for my notes to the flashcards and what flashcards I bought. I never did separate outlines for the MBE.

Your not going to pick up every exception. You have to understand that there will be somethings you will just not know. But, by doing 2000 MBE questions, you will pick up patterns of what is always wrong. Also, when you get a question wrong, make sure you go over the explanation of why it was wrong. This will get you more information in your head. I did very well and I barely used the CMR. To be honest, my worst grades in law school were in Con Law and Property. Also I never took Crim Pro or Evidence. However, according to TLS, my MBE score was an autopass for the bar exam.

What you need to do with MBE questions is eliminate the easy wrong choices. Get it down to two and pick the best answer. I think the average score (which passes) is about 80 questions wrong. So you are trying to get a 60%. GL

myrtlewinston
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)e

Postby myrtlewinston » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:11 am

UndecidedMN wrote:
myrtlewinston wrote:
waxecstatic wrote:If only there were critical pass flashcards for the non-MBE subjects too...


I found these: barexamoutlines.com. They are not flashcards, but outlines and/or cheatsheets. Does anyone know anything about them? There's also: leansheets.com

I'd appreciate any viable time-saving tips.


Never heard of barexamoutlines.com. I know some people use lean sheets, but I didn't like them. If you are in a UBE state, I believe my short-outlines are fine along with the flash cards.

Myrtlewinston, I think you may be focusing a little too much on materials. Just start learning the material from what you have. Your prep course, flashcards and my outlines give you more than enough to study from. PM me if you wish me to give you more information/tips in detail. Nothing will substitute just craming every bit of information in through countless hours of hard work. What these tips are designed to do is to help you get the most in your head per hour you work. Nothing will substitute the fact that you need to get a ton of stuff in your head. Hopefully I have helped you get what you need in your head as quick as possible.


You've been very helpful indeed! I'm only looking for non-Barbri material that reduces my CMR burden. That way, I can get more practice questions in. Some downtime wouldn't hurt either.

UndecidedMN
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Re: How to Pass the Bar Exam (Tips, Outlines and Strategies)e

Postby UndecidedMN » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:39 am

myrtlewinston wrote:
UndecidedMN wrote:
myrtlewinston wrote:
waxecstatic wrote:If only there were critical pass flashcards for the non-MBE subjects too...


I found these: barexamoutlines.com. They are not flashcards, but outlines and/or cheatsheets. Does anyone know anything about them? There's also: leansheets.com

I'd appreciate any viable time-saving tips.


Never heard of barexamoutlines.com. I know some people use lean sheets, but I didn't like them. If you are in a UBE state, I believe my short-outlines are fine along with the flash cards.

Myrtlewinston, I think you may be focusing a little too much on materials. Just start learning the material from what you have. Your prep course, flashcards and my outlines give you more than enough to study from. PM me if you wish me to give you more information/tips in detail. Nothing will substitute just craming every bit of information in through countless hours of hard work. What these tips are designed to do is to help you get the most in your head per hour you work. Nothing will substitute the fact that you need to get a ton of stuff in your head. Hopefully I have helped you get what you need in your head as quick as possible.


You've been very helpful indeed! I'm only looking for non-Barbri material that reduces my CMR burden. That way, I can get more practice questions in. Some downtime wouldn't hurt either.


Completely understand about downtime. You get a little now, but to be honest after the 4th, you don't get any. I truly believe your lecture notes, filling them in, and going over them are the most important thing you will do.




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