Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[smalogna]

If this was an actual MBE question I'm shocked, very close to current (or recent) events.

A football player was very angry with his wife. While the couple was in a casino elevator, the wife said that she did not think he should be gambling with their hard-earned money, but should instead save it to pay for their children’s future college tuitions. Insulted by what he viewed as her insolence, the football player swung his arm back to strike her. However, at the second he would have made contact, the elevator lurched, and he hit a man in the elevator instead. The man sustained a concussion.
If the football player is charged with battery on the man in a jurisdiction that follows the Model Penal Code, will he be convicted?

[Underoath]

Please you guys...for criminal law are you ignoring pretty much the modern rule since we were told we are generally only tested on Common Law

Yet it looks like MPC is showing up in Themis' multiple choice.....I need to get real MBE questions, but that's besides the point right now.

[gr8scOtt!]

Please you guys...for criminal law are you ignoring pretty much the modern rule since we were told we are generally only tested on Common Law

Yet it looks like MPC is showing up in Themis' multiple choice.....I need to get real MBE questions, but that's besides the point right now.

I plan on knowing both. There aren't that many.

[zot1]

Themis messaged me here about the progress bar to tell me I should contact tech support. I HAD DONE THAT. By the time I got this message, Tech support had not reply. They did just now, but they do not know what happened because they just asked me to fix the time zone, which had already been set just fine.

Dear Themis, do not contact me through here. This is a space for bar takers to do all sorts of whining. I contact you through the official channels when needed. Learn to give a fella some space.

Rant over.

Maybe they will see how the incorrect explanations for things are driving all of us mad, and pretend to care.

I'm happy they lurk and take note. I just didn't welcome the personal intrusion.

[zot1]

Evidence essays are hardcore! Hearsay within hearsay within hearsay within . . . well, you get it.

[always_raining]

How "real" are the Themis questions (both MBE and MEE)? Are they from past bar exams, or are they reject questions?

[TheLegalOne]

@Raiden - I'm hoping so. But we won't know if we don't try. I'm waiting on a response from my grader. I asked her if she would be specific and give me an example of how I could have used a particular set of facts differently. BTW, my intent wasn't to scare you. I was kind of writing out of frustration because I want to believe the "as long as you are trending at.." talk. But, been there, done that.

I'm sure my experience does not represent others. I just wanted to share.

Yeah I definitely took her response with a grain of salt too...I think the problem is that a lot of bar courses sell you the idea that you will learn the stuff just by doing what they tell you and that you don't have to actively and really try to memorize and get better. Which I don't think is true for everyone. So when they say "yeah getting 50% is fine" I don't necessarily believe it. While it's comforting to know that these results are "normal" in a sense, I think what differentiates people who pass from those who fail are the ones who make an active effort to understand what they are doing wrong and fix it, which means deviating from doing the rote work assigned each day.

I'm not 100% clear on what your tutor told you to do differently. Do you mean that doing the essays closed book was not helping? Or just that Themis isn't being that helpful by telling us it's ok to be getting bad scores? My essay grader isn't great and I think I'm going to ask for a new one if the second essay comments aren't helpful.

I should first preface this by saying that my tutor's feedback is specific to my weaknesses (and the Themis grader probably has a ton of essays to review and is not able to put as much time into it as my tutor does). First, my tutor went line by line and based on how I used my facts, the tutor was able to tell me what the writers were looking for with the specific facts and exactly how I should have used them differently than how I used them (not merely "use more facts"). To practice correcting that, the answer is not just do more closed book, timed essays.

Others may have organization or issue spotting weaknesses, the answer would not be just do more closed book, timed essays. So the tutor is saying not to get into the "race the clock mentality" doing everything closed book and timed early in prep. Actually analyze your feedback line by line to understand and correct the weaknesses and practice creating the product you want to create on exam day (again, something we can't do if we do not receive (or ask for) specific feedback on what we need to change).

On the MBE note, I'm not really 100% sure. I believe Themis schedules difficulty levels in certain MBE sets and that's how they know the average should be 50% (or whatever it will soon increase to) but my tutor is saying a 50% goal now will not help me get to a 1500 scaled so I need to be memorizing rules now and be averaging much higher than 50% consistently to peak on exam day. I'm just sharing this, I'm not sure how I feel about it. As I said, I was consistently above the Themis goal for Feb and did not hit a 1500 (close) on the actual exam.

Anyway, I hope this clarifies my earlier response.

[Underoath]

Please you guys...for criminal law are you ignoring pretty much the modern rule since we were told we are generally only tested on Common Law

Yet it looks like MPC is showing up in Themis' multiple choice.....I need to get real MBE questions, but that's besides the point right now.

I plan on knowing both. There aren't that many.

Both MPC and Common Law...NOT the modern rule I take it? Just want to be sure I am understanding correctly.

[Tripl3Espresso]

Please you guys...for criminal law are you ignoring pretty much the modern rule since we were told we are generally only tested on Common Law

Yet it looks like MPC is showing up in Themis' multiple choice.....I need to get real MBE questions, but that's besides the point right now.

I plan on knowing both. There aren't that many.

Both MPC and Common Law...NOT the modern rule I take it? Just want to be sure I am understanding correctly.

I'm pretty sure you need to know the modern rule too. Most mbe questions use the common law rule, but there could be a call asking for you to analyze under the modern rule. There aren't many distinctions though. Karlan is pretty thorough with that, and if she missed anything it's all in the long outline.

[texlaw]

How can a general partner not be liable for the partnership's debts?

[+] Spoiler

An MBE question said that a general partner went to the bank to get a loan on behalf of his partnership, he signed a document for the loan, the partnership didn't repay the loan, and the bank attempted to come after the general partner. The correct answer was that the bank couldn't come after the general partner because there was no written suretyship agreement.

If this had been a corporation or some other form of separate entity, I could understand. But in a general partnership I would think a suretyship issue wouldn't even come up at all since he is already personally liable.

[Underoath]

Please you guys...for criminal law are you ignoring pretty much the modern rule since we were told we are generally only tested on Common Law

Yet it looks like MPC is showing up in Themis' multiple choice.....I need to get real MBE questions, but that's besides the point right now.

I plan on knowing both. There aren't that many.

Both MPC and Common Law...NOT the modern rule I take it? Just want to be sure I am understanding correctly.

I'm pretty sure you need to know the modern rule too. Most mbe questions use the common law rule, but there could be a call asking for you to analyze under the modern rule. There aren't many distinctions though. Karlan is pretty thorough with that, and if she missed anything it's all in the long outline.

dang it...ok thanks lol

[sd5289]

Looks like Clark teaches combined federal/state evidence for IL.



*nods*
"great"

Wait, wut? The Torts guy is teaching your evidence? I had Schott for Evidence.

[smalogna]

Holy hell NY evidence is essentially a whole separate subject from MBE evidence.

[Nelson]

Blatant misstatements of the law in the criminal law distinctions lecture for my state. That's fun.

[habz]

Holy hell NY evidence is essentially a whole separate subject from MBE evidence.

And she just drones on at a million miles an hour. I didn't understand a word

[Underoath]

Blatant misstatements of the law in the criminal law distinctions lecture for my state. That's fun.

wow...that's really pathetic.

[milesdavisjd]

Looks like Clark teaches combined federal/state evidence for IL.



*nods*
"great"

Wait, wut? The Torts guy is teaching your evidence? I had Schott for Evidence.

Yes. And Equity. Lawd. Karlan for Criminal Law is killing me with those long examples and jumping around the outline.

[Underoath]

Looks like Clark teaches combined federal/state evidence for IL.



*nods*
"great"

Wait, wut? The Torts guy is teaching your evidence? I had Schott for Evidence.

Yes. And Equity. Lawd. Karlan for Criminal Law is killing me with those long examples and jumping around the outline.

I stopped watching the lecture for crim law...was aggravating for that very reason

[IamIn]

Is it just me, or are the explanations and answers for the questions labeled "the foregoing NCBE MBE question has been modified to reflect current NCBE stylistic approaches" markedly less helpful than those for the official questions? The questions seem to be a little lacking too, but the shortfall is a lot more noticeable when it comes to the explanations, which are shorter and feel sort of cursory.

It's unfortunate, because the answers (even for MBEs I got correct) have been my most helpful study tool by far.

It's not just you; I've noticed the same thing. It is very annoying to read the explanations that do not go into detail and in general are written in a "fu.. off" kind of way..

[kgus22]

How can a general partner not be liable for the partnership's debts?

[+] Spoiler

An MBE question said that a general partner went to the bank to get a loan on behalf of his partnership, he signed a document for the loan, the partnership didn't repay the loan, and the bank attempted to come after the general partner. The correct answer was that the bank couldn't come after the general partner because there was no written suretyship agreement.

If this had been a corporation or some other form of separate entity, I could understand. But in a general partnership I would think a suretyship issue wouldn't even come up at all since he is already personally liable.

Did the question have more details about the loan agreement? or was that it? like did it say recourse vs. nonrecourse? If its nonrecourse, he wouldn't be personally liable. I haven't done the partnership lectures yet, or had this question come up (I'm assuming its a K's SOF question), but even if there was an agreement, partnerships can allocate liabilities in many ways. I took partnership tax and we spent weeks on allocation of liabilities.

[henry flower]

Man, the Civ Pro outline is INSANELY detailed. Purposeful overkill because MBE Civ Pro's novelty makes it hard to definitively know what they will test?

Hard to believe the NCBE would really test a bunch of Fed Courts stuff here, but then again, my last few Real Property MBE sets have gotten so, so, so obscure.

[sd5289]

Holy hell NY evidence is essentially a whole separate subject from MBE evidence.

That's because we in NY don't believe in an evidence code. Cause common law and random statutes are fun.

I will say I appreciate how succinct the lecturer is. Maybe it's the New Yorker in me, but I like just getting the rules out and then being left free to do PQ's and practice essays (which I'm learning way more from anyway).

[Raiden]

Can someone explain to me the difference between satisfaction and accord and modifying a contract?

[henry flower]

Can someone explain to me the difference between satisfaction and accord and modifying a contract?

Off the top of my head (so feel free to add or correct):

1. Agreeing to an accord never requires consideration.
2. If the accord is delivered it satisfies the K.
3. If there is no satisfaction (by delivering/performing the accord) the non-breaching party can either sue for the accord OR for breach of the original pre-accord contract.

[Raiden]

Can someone explain to me the difference between satisfaction and accord and modifying a contract?

Off the top of my head (so feel free to add or correct):

1. Agreeing to an accord never requires consideration.
2. If the accord is delivered it satisfies the K.
3. If there is no satisfaction (by delivering/performing the accord) the non-breaching party can either sue for the accord OR for breach of the original pre-accord contract.

Thanks! So then my question is, how do you know when you are dealing with an accord or with a modification situation? Because if you think it is a modified contract, then it appears to not be valid with the lack of consideration.