Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

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MrMustache
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby MrMustache » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:34 pm

Is anyone else having trouble doing all of the assigned daily work? I start at 9 a.m. and end around 5 or 6 (depending on the day), and I'm still behind :?

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Pleasye
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Pleasye » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:38 pm

MrMustache wrote:Is anyone else having trouble doing all of the assigned daily work? I start at 9 a.m. and end around 5 or 6 (depending on the day), and I'm still behind :?

Yes and it's giving me anxiety even though everyone I talk to says it happens to everyone.

kgus22
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kgus22 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:51 pm

Lawbro wrote:The essay sucked. It's hard to write from memory about an area of law you never learned in school, and which you only spent a few hours learning about through lectures and the outline. I wish they gave us more time between finishing topics and writing essays about those topics, so we can actually attempt to memorize the stuff.


I thought the part about the durable POA was a bit of a low blow, considering that its agency and we haven't covered that yet either. It was not covered in the property outline (I checked). I made up a rule (which was wrong) so we will see how that goes. I thought the property part was fairly easy, but it was hard to recall the family law stuff from memory already after just learning it.

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kjartan
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kjartan » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:28 pm

MrMustache wrote:Is anyone else having trouble doing all of the assigned daily work? I start at 9 a.m. and end around 5 or 6 (depending on the day), and I'm still behind :?

Yup. I watched 19 torts lectures yesterday, which Themis says is 1.1%. Just fucking lol at that.

gr8scOtt!
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby gr8scOtt! » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:11 am

kjartan wrote:
MrMustache wrote:Is anyone else having trouble doing all of the assigned daily work? I start at 9 a.m. and end around 5 or 6 (depending on the day), and I'm still behind :?

Yup. I watched 19 torts lectures yesterday, which Themis says is 1.1%. Just fucking lol at that.

:shock: i cannot even comprehend how you were able to comprehend anything by the end of that!

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Nelson
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Nelson » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:05 am

Why does the civ pro guy say defendant like defen-DANT?

InternationalShoe
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby InternationalShoe » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:15 am

Okay, so I thought the NY Family Law lecturer was great. But the handout is bordering on useless. I'm watching the NY Family Law Essay Workshop and it's become clear that the Family Law handout doesn't even properly list the elements for the basic grounds of divorce like adultery, abandonment, or cruel and inhuman treatment.

Also, did anyone else think WTF upon learning that NY requires only African Americans to undergo medical testing for sickle cell anemia before being granted a marriage license!?

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sd5289
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby sd5289 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:40 am

Lawbro wrote:The essay sucked. It's hard to write from memory about an area of law you never learned in school, and which you only spent a few hours learning about through lectures and the outline. I wish they gave us more time between finishing topics and writing essays about those topics, so we can actually attempt to memorize the stuff.


Unlike the first essay, I felt like I killed this one (and the model answer has given me hope). But I studied Family Law with a really, really good prof at a NY school, so that helped big time. I just finished and haven't felt this good about a practice anything (essay, questions, etc.). There is light at the end of the tunnel!

Also, re. Property MBE's: I did well in Property in school (also had a very good prof for that), but my first set was 47%. That jumped to 63% on the second set, so I think it's just a matter of getting used to it and not freaking out at the time it takes to figure out what they're asking.

ETA:
[+] Spoiler
However, the durable power of attorney issue was the big one I missed. I construed it into some kind of "consent" for the whole tenancy by the entirety thing where one spouse can't alienate without the consent of another spouse, but had no idea what I was doing on that issue.

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sd5289
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby sd5289 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:52 am

InternationalShoe wrote:Also, did anyone else think WTF upon learning that NY requires only African Americans to undergo medical testing for sickle cell anemia before being granted a marriage license!?


Yeah I kinda did a double-take at my computer screen when that part came up. Smh.

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MrMustache
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby MrMustache » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:00 pm

I am thinking of completely skipping video lectures, other than doing the assessments, and just reading the long outline instead. With the hours I save, I could focus on essay writing.

californiabarprep
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby californiabarprep » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:15 pm

What should we be aiming for when we do MBE practice sets? The GOAL says it's 50%...but I'm sure that it's not enough to get a passing score on the actual test. Just wondering if past Themis users out there have any experience on this! Thanks!

collegewriter
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby collegewriter » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:25 pm

MrMustache wrote:I am thinking of completely skipping video lectures, other than doing the assessments, and just reading the long outline instead. With the hours I save, I could focus on essay writing.


Probably worth it for those in which the instructor is just reading the outline. For Torts I only watched the review videos since they were the most helpful. I found Contracts very helpful. Did not watch NY distinctions for Contracts and instead just read outline and created a review sheet. I think Real Property is also probably worth watching but I suppose it depends on your learning style. Am currently doing much better on Torts than Contracts. (also probably depends on how strong your teacher was in school).

caminante
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby caminante » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:53 pm

Is anyone else disappointed with their state specific content? One of the main lecturers for the Maryland content is pretty terrible. He just reads directly from the handout, which itself is basically a copy of the outline. The MD essays are worth a majority of our grade, so I was hoping for more thorough instruction on the state specific distinctions.

I also got a late start on the course. I have only been studying for a week so far, so I'm feeling very behind. Did anyone else wait until the beginning of June to start? My graduation wasn't until the end of May, and I had heard that most of last year's grads waited until after graduation to start studying for the bar.

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sd5289
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby sd5289 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:12 pm

MrMustache wrote:I am thinking of completely skipping video lectures, other than doing the assessments, and just reading the long outline instead. With the hours I save, I could focus on essay writing.


I sometimes feel like doing this too, but I think there's two values to doing the video lectures (plus from the look of the schedule, we will be shifting pretty heavily toward practice, outlining, and memorization come July): (1) it breaks up the monotony of plugging away at practice questions and essays all the time; and (2) the lecture handouts you follow along with have been pretty helpful for me in beginning outlines that I'll be synthesizing and plugging in exceptions and NY distinctions into as I go along (I'm one of those outline learners).

Also, I'm already feeling an improvement both in my MBE and essay performances over the past couple of weeks, so I think I'm in a good spot for now.

aladdinismyprince
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby aladdinismyprince » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:22 pm

caminante wrote:Is anyone else disappointed with their state specific content? One of the main lecturers for the Maryland content is pretty terrible. He just reads directly from the handout, which itself is basically a copy of the outline. The MD essays are worth a majority of our grade, so I was hoping for more thorough instruction on the state specific distinctions.

I also got a late start on the course. I have only been studying for a week so far, so I'm feeling very behind. Did anyone else wait until the beginning of June to start? My graduation wasn't until the end of May, and I had heard that most of last year's grads waited until after graduation to start studying for the bar.


I'm in the same boat. I didn't start until the end of May because of a wedding. Not only am I behind, I am getting more and more behind. (I was 1 1/2 weeks behind; now I am even more behind). I honestly have no idea what to do or what to cut.

I also wish they gave you more time to review. I can't memorize things by simply watching the lecture and reading the outline once. But it takes the entire day for me to do my daily assignments, which gives me no time to review. So, I have to either forgo reviewing/memorizing or I have to get more and more behind on the substantive work.

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kjartan
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kjartan » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:24 pm

Why are people making their own outlines? Themis gives you like 3 separate outlines. It just seems like a huge time suck.

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anon sequitur
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby anon sequitur » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:54 pm

I don't know, I guess different people learn different ways. I think making your own outline can be a really effective way to learn the material, it is just so time consuming, I don't think I can handle it. Personally, where I get the least help is reading an outline. I really have no idea how people have the ability to concentrate enough to read through a 50 page outline of an entire subject. I skip the outline entirely, try to pay very close attention to the lecture while doing the fill-in handout. I'm relying on that to get me to a vague competence, and hoping that doing a shitload of questions will help me get the details.

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kjartan
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kjartan » Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:17 pm

anon sequitur wrote:I don't know, I guess different people learn different ways. I think making your own outline can be a really effective way to learn the material, it is just so time consuming, I don't think I can handle it. Personally, where I get the least help is reading an outline. I really have no idea how people have the ability to concentrate enough to read through a 50 page outline of an entire subject. I skip the outline entirely, try to pay very close attention to the lecture while doing the fill-in handout. I'm relying on that to get me to a vague competence, and hoping that doing a shitload of questions will help me get the details.

Yeah, for me at least outlining is not time cost-justified. I tried to outline contracts but gave up when I realized that I wouldn't be able to sustainably outline all of the subjects. Instead, I try to carefully highlight (occasionally annotate) the outlines. Re outlines vs lectures, I have the opposite problem: I have great retention from reading the outlines but I don't retain much from the lectures.

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sd5289
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby sd5289 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:37 pm

Think this conversation best illustrates what everyone says about studying for the bar, a/k/a doing what's worked for you this far.

Personally? I don't waste time with the long outlines. I'll skim through them, or use them whenever I get a random rule that I just can't place in the MBE practice answer explanations, but I don't spend that much time with them. I've also switched the order where I'll do the lectures/handouts first, and then look through the long outline to pick up anything major that was skipped over.

So I think the trade-off for me in terms of time is more time spent "outlining" vs less time spent "reading" the long outlines. I could never retain anything from anyone else's outlines during law school, so outlined for everything then too.

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zot1
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby zot1 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:56 pm

Robert Paulson wrote:
zot1 wrote:
milesdavisjd wrote:Am I the only one really struggling to get through the Property section? It is just so uninteresting, and I'm consistently getting just about 40-50% of the MBE questions right. I know they mentioned this was an issue for a lot of students in the Property MBE Lecture, but I just wanted to confirm that I'm not alone in this.


I just barely made 52% in property. It was horrible. 90% mortgage questions, and I wanted to die. I still have more stuff left for today, but that last MBE set was so bad, I need a break. You're not alone.

EDIT: forgot to mention--although this has been discussed before, this last set tested exceptions and obscure rules not mentioned in lecture. Although I know the MBE practice sets are supposed to help us with those, it was incredibly frustrating because Themis made it seem like mortgages are tested but not as much or in this much depth.


I came to that same conclusion. I made a short outline using the book outline and focused heavily on mortgages and recording rules. My MBE went from 52% to 70%. Honestly, the lectures are only good for general overview whereas the book outline contains the details being tested.


Yeah, that makes sense. I think the general consensus that MBEs help you memorizing held true again because I did better on my last set when it came to mortgages. It was also not as painful to read as it was yesterday.

I think it's frustrating to deal with missing exceptions to the exceptions, but I keep trying to remind myself that I'm trying to pass this test, not ace it.

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anon sequitur
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby anon sequitur » Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:21 pm

this virginia PR guy is killing me, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to make it through all the sub-par lecturers. They really should have all-star lecturers for every MBE subject at least.

collegewriter
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby collegewriter » Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:22 pm

aladdinismyprince wrote:
caminante wrote:Is anyone else disappointed with their state specific content? One of the main lecturers for the Maryland content is pretty terrible. He just reads directly from the handout, which itself is basically a copy of the outline. The MD essays are worth a majority of our grade, so I was hoping for more thorough instruction on the state specific distinctions.

I also got a late start on the course. I have only been studying for a week so far, so I'm feeling very behind. Did anyone else wait until the beginning of June to start? My graduation wasn't until the end of May, and I had heard that most of last year's grads waited until after graduation to start studying for the bar.


I'm in the same boat. I didn't start until the end of May because of a wedding. Not only am I behind, I am getting more and more behind. (I was 1 1/2 weeks behind; now I am even more behind). I honestly have no idea what to do or what to cut.

I also wish they gave you more time to review. I can't memorize things by simply watching the lecture and reading the outline once. But it takes the entire day for me to do my daily assignments, which gives me no time to review. So, I have to either forgo reviewing/memorizing or I have to get more and more behind on the substantive work.


There's more built-in review time starting soon for you. I think if you compartmentalize each subject into the following you can pick what to cut or skimp on: [read outline] [lecture +notes or handout] [practice Qs] [MBE workshops] [practice essays] [review]. For me it's the lectures that I will cut first or speed up significantly. But that's because I retain very well from reading and writing. So I mostly take my own notes on the lectures that are worth it and study from those during review time. This is what worked for me during law school. I would just stick to your study habits from school and if you can't do everything then cut some things out from topics you are strong in or those that are the least helpful (torts lectures I'm looking at you). If anything, when it comes to later in the course when you are spending a whole day reviewing and doing questions you will have more flexibility. For what it's worth I've heard practice MBE questions are the most important thing you can do on a daily basis.

collegewriter
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby collegewriter » Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:23 pm

anon sequitur wrote:this virginia PR guy is killing me, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to make it through all the sub-par lecturers. They really should have all-star lecturers for every MBE subject at least.


100% agreed. I get when the distinctions lecturer is just meh but there's really no excuse for forcing us through 20 videos of someone awful. And I'm sure these same complaints are raised about the same people every year.

HND
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby HND » Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:48 pm

Nelson wrote:Why does the civ pro guy say defendant like defen-DANT?



My Civ Pro professor used to say it like that as well, and I loved it. Never misspelled defendant lmfao.

kgus22
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kgus22 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:50 pm

anyone doing NY, did you notice next week that when we do criminal law, MBE and NY distinctions are taught all in the same lecture?




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