Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby lacrossebrother » Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:46 pm

UnamSanctam wrote:
annapach wrote:
somuchbooty wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:ya im still at like 8%. not impressed by the difficulty of this thing. july 11 gonna start studying.


lol i hope this is a troll


seems this guy has made his troll status obvious on a variety of boards


Lax rarely outright lies. Especially outside the Lounge.


lacrossebrother on 6/28/15 wrote:ya i trolled you. not actually at 8% :mrgreen:
Image


(passed, no thanks to themis)
just do self study yall. i dicked around way too long going back and forth between themis and "doing my own thing." then themis made me feel bad about not being far enough along and i was all freaked out. wish i had hadnt paid a dime for any "new" materials, and just for some ~2012 kaplan/barbri materials on ebay. i probably only put in 10 hours all summer till 7/6, then maybe 70 more in those last three weeks?

truest take away isn't that the material doesn't change --it's that these courses don't do a good job updating. civil procedure was nothing like what was made available by themis (the only specific subject i did more than 1 set on). and the mortgage problems were wayyy different than what was published officially and the more recent version of barbri/kaplan i was able to get used versions of.

and as far as i could tell, themis also reuses their material. it's a horseshit enterprise, and that literally ANY pressure exists to buy "new" materials is the dumbest thing in the entire world.

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Finalflash013
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Finalflash013 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:57 pm

Just wanted to check in with my results. I took Themis and passed the Massachusetts Bar Exam.

I got a 149 on the MBE and 152 on Essays. I got a 139 on the Themis midterm. I definitely thought the MBE questions on the real test were a bit different (especially Civil Procedure), and I felt like crap coming out of the A.M. session. However, everything ended up fine in the end.

I did 100% of the Themis course and I definitely recommend it. Glad I didn't fork out twice the amount of money for Barbri.

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby UnamSanctam » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:05 pm

UnamSanctam wrote:
mike.alexander23 wrote:Congrats MI themisers! Can you share your themis stats, please?

% Completed

MBE %

MBE Simulated Day raw score

Thx.


90% completed

67%ish MBE

131ish (maybe it was 132) raw score on Simulated Day


Got my official scaled MBE from the bar: 157

lilypad144
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby lilypad144 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:54 pm

I received my score for the Michigan bar exam. In Michigan, the MBE score and essay score are added and the result is divided in half and that is the score. You need a 135 to pass, I passed with a 136!!! Wow...talk about cutting it close.

I was most surprised by the breakdown of my scores. My MBE scores were always very low so I focus on my essays but it was opposite on the actual bar. I received a scales 141 on my MBE and a scaled 131 on the essays for the 136 final score.

My essays werw everywhere. I'm extremely happy that I passed but I'm terrified by how close it was.

LLMEuro
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby LLMEuro » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:18 am

i passed the NY bar tonight.

themis sucked on so many levels that - had i failed, i would have showed up in chicago and asked for a refund and yelled at everyone working there including the cleaning ladies. and i live in europe.

if you are an LLM taker (aka foreign educated) as i was, this is not the bar prep for you. they start you off with one course, then after two months while you are going through your lectures they simply kill it with no explanation. after you email them, it takes the desk people about 5 emails to realize which course you are even talking about because in the meantime they introduced a second course that is kinda an extended version of the first one but it does not contain everything the first one did. it will take you around an hour to analyze and realize this. now do i really need this shit and emailing back and forth with incompetent idiots who cannot read an email 2 months before the bar? i didnt think so either.

the course (the second one, you had to switch to half way there) is in theory designed to serve you as a at-will do-what-you-want course but in reality it is not, and it is super annoying how you have to struggle to cover everything they want you to cover (thinking it is necessary) and waste time on this. if you are watching their lectures, do it in 1.5 speed mode cause they are otherwise ridiculously painful. out of 15 lecturers, 2 are coherent. everyone else is either talking about their life and greatness and disrupting the flow OR they are CORRECTING themselves and you (and whatever you have JUST written down). i honestly wanted to release open fire at my monitor.

the biggest problem for me was that i have spent SO MUCH TIME on their outline and lectures and handouts and then when i got to MBE questions, my scores were in 30 - 40% range. BECAUSE THEY DO NOT GIVE YOU THE INFORMATION YOU NEED RIGHT AWAY, this stupid course is designed as a "you will learn as you take the test" course which i hated because in the end you have so much printed material in 17 different piles that it is impossible to perform a coherent review of all issues right before the bar. themis, for the love of god please put everything in your outlines, regardless of how big and thick they might be because this sucks.

in the end i was so pissed of and running out of time thanks to this idiotic concept of studying that i have submitted a total of ZERO essays and did not take a single full MBE practice. i sumbitted random text for the essays just to get their model answers, and as for the MBE's i said fuck it and went to sleep.

finally, i am a foreign attorney in a european jurisdiction and i have been practicing for years. this is the only reasons why i ignored themis and went with my pure legal logic and fluent english. for someone who is struggling - go with barbri or someone with more brains in this matter.

looongtimelurker
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby looongtimelurker » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:53 am

Congrats, llmeuro, on passing!

I’m another European LLM who passed NY last night. For preparation, I finished about 90% of the Themis course, and took no other bar prep (no seperac, no adaptibar). I feel like I want to add a different viewpoint here, because it seems my experience with Themis was a lot better than yours.

We were starting from different points, though: I just took the JD bar prep course, which did not change over time, so no confusion here. I assume you also took the LLM package, about which I cannot say anything. Also, I was lucky enough to know a person who took the course with Themis last year and gave me their outlines. Therefore, I quickly gave up on reading the Themis outlines.

That may have made all the difference, as my workflow developed into: watch the lectures (also mostly at higher speed), modify that friend’s outline according to my lecture notes, and then get into MBE questions. I carefully revised the MBE answer explanations / essay model answers, and made further additions to my friend’s outline whenever something novel popped up.
(That being said, I did go back to the Themis outlines from time to time, and I can't say I spotted any omissions. At least for the parts I checked, I seem to remember I found ALL the information from the MBE practice sets in the outlines, too. I just wasn't able to digest the long outlines at once, but that's another story.)

As regards the quality of the lectures, I would beg to differ. I thought at least the following were good and well-structured: Con Law, Contracts, Advanced Sales, Criminal Law, Evidence (even though the lecturer has a salesman air to him), Property, Torts, Trusts, Wills, Corporations, Partnerships.

With that, I managed to score fairly high on the MBE soon. I did not feel so well about the essays, by contrast, even though I also submitted all of the practice essays. But that may also because there was just so much stuff to know for NY law.

@llmeuro: Sorry to hear you had such an awful time! Apart from their outlines, I was actually pretty happy with Themis, and with that qualifier will recommend it to friends - not least because it also felt good to be working with a bar prep that wasn’t ripping me off as blatantly as barbri.

EliPedDH
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby EliPedDH » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:34 am

Thank you Themis. Real MBE questions are the way to go. Passed NY Bar exam. Completed around 80% of Themis. Started three weeks after the recommended start date due to taking the CFA in early June. Did most of the practice essays open book. Went from scoring around 60% open book on the MBE questions in the first couple of weeks to consistently getting 75-85%. Got 170+ MBE on the actual NY Bar exam.

ghandidr
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby ghandidr » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:02 am

Im also a foreigner who passed the NY bar. Themis was great. I did 90% of the course as well, which was a struggle to get to. Whilst i do agree the MBEs were different from what was actually tested, takers of other bar prep programs expressed the same sentiments. Overall, themis provided a great schedule and i stuck to it as much as possible. I did use Seperac as additional bar material, but im just glad i can finally put this all behind me now.
Congrats to all who passed.

iwantmybar
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby iwantmybar » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:08 am

What do you think of Separac? I failed NY (LLM as well ) and received a score of 619.

Is it worth it?

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sd5289
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby sd5289 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:13 am

Passed NY with an MBE score of 153.3.

Completed about 80-81% of Themis. I also used the SmartBarPrep outline in order to study for the NY essays, which basically isolated every rule that had actually been tested on past exams, and their rate of occurrence. For Themis I'd say the lectures/outlines in areas that I wasn't familiar with were worthwhile to go through, but they were completely useless in areas I already knew from law school classes. The MBE practice sets, while infuriating, apparently prepared me well for the real thing even though the real thing was *different*.

Thanks to everyone in this forum who shared their ideas and thoughts. I still credit this thread for saving my ass on the last NY essay, and while with my MBE score it doesn't appear like it was the clincher for me, I still was able to come out of day 1 with a "whew, thank god I knew that topic and didn't completely implode" attitude, which was helpful going into the MBE on day 2. I remember a lot of people were still freaked about the essays during the morning of day 2, which couldn't have helped their performance on the MBE.

No thanks to the Javits Center on day 2 where it decided to hold an expo or something above the test-taking center, making our testing environment sound like a day long audition for the show Stomp. :roll:

Congrats to all who passed!

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IamIn
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby IamIn » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:12 pm

Congrats! :D

Besdkepdsecret
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Besdkepdsecret » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:13 pm

Congrats to everyone who passed and good luck to those retaking.

Passed NY
- roughly 93% completed (followed schedule closely until then)
- 155.6 MBE
- 134 Midterm
- Watched every video at 2x
- Read all outlines
- Eventually supplemented with shorter outlines from previous takers
- Never made my own outlines/flashcards
- Felt practice questions were wholly consistent with actual ones

Themis is very good if you are diligent.

keldrian
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby keldrian » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:49 pm

Passed NY!

1. Completed roughly 85% (but I was just checking off stuff like "read outline" even though I didn't)
2. 146.9 MBE
3. Didn't take midterm or other simulated MBEs. Just kept taking the bundles of MBEs. Rarely ever took the MBEs in "test mode" either. Having said that, I think I probably solved about 95% of the MBE questions available on Themis.
4. Watched about half of the MBE videos. Rarely watched the state specific ones. (please please please don't waste your time on these)
5. Read long outlines only for the MBE subjects I hadn't taken classes in. Found a compilation of short outlines on SLS's webpage so I just read through those numerous times.
6. Bought Critical Pass but I probably went through about 10% of those cards.... :oops:
7. I consistently got oddly good essay scores from my Themis grader, which I wasn't sure if it was just because I had a very soft grader or if I was actually making sense. I guess I'll never know how I really did on the essays though.
8. Thanks to this hangout, I went through Admin again before essay day just in case. Thanks guys.

Congrats to everyone else that passed!

LLMEuro
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby LLMEuro » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:58 pm

looongtimelurker wrote:We were starting from different points, though: I just took the JD bar prep course, which did not change over time, so no confusion here. I assume you also took the LLM package, about which I cannot say anything.


yes, i am not familiar with their JD program. mine was called LLM advanced 1&2.

Therefore, I quickly gave up on reading the Themis outlines.


im sorry i didnt read this 6 months ago, cause i've lost a whole month on this without much progress. it felt like reading chinese at the time.

That may have made all the difference, as my workflow developed into: watch the lectures (also mostly at higher speed), modify that friend’s outline according to my lecture notes, and then get into MBE questions. I carefully revised the MBE answer explanations / essay model answers, and made further additions to my friend’s outline whenever something novel popped up.


roughly i did the same thing. the problem i had with this process is that this form of studying - where you only learn new things by taking the tests - proved to be too time consuming. i also ended up with scattered notes everywhere and/or had to make my own outline by including all the model answers tricks into what i thought was a coherent outline before that.

(That being said, I did go back to the Themis outlines from time to time, and I can't say I spotted any omissions. At least for the parts I checked, I seem to remember I found ALL the information from the MBE practice sets in the outlines, too. I just wasn't able to digest the long outlines at once, but that's another story.)


nope, there were plenty that were not covered or they were not there in that form. to be fair, i probably would have had way less problems with this if i had actually graduated from a JD program. being on an unknown turf is struggling as it is, but studying without having the whole picture being painted in a coherent and connected manner is additional stress. granted, this is a bar prep course and not lawschool, but if you compare their handouts with the mbe questions and answers, you can see that their handouts cover only 30-40% of what you need for the mbe. if that's the point, okay. but there was no point then for me to waste my time on their lectures and handouts, i should have gone straight for the mbe questions and learn as my score rises.

As regards the quality of the lectures, I would beg to differ. I thought at least the following were good and well-structured: Con Law, Contracts, Advanced Sales, Criminal Law, Evidence (even though the lecturer has a salesman air to him), Property, Torts, Trusts, Wills, Corporations, Partnerships.


with all due respect, i am not even sure if you have watched all these lectures. trusts and wills were full of mistakes and corrections, because the guy (although nice and pleasant) could not keep his focus for longer than 5 minutes. property guy spent 1/3 of his lectures drinking water and telling us how he is drinking water because he lives in the desert. as for criminal law, thank to themis i was exposed to 2 different lecturers so (and 2 more for crim pro) so i am failing to remeber who was who. i think the chick that covered the videos in course 1 that got killed had the life force of a house brick, though. others were okay, except the corporations guy who was great. so, yeah we will disagree on this.



@llmeuro: Sorry to hear you had such an awful time! Apart from their outlines, I was actually pretty happy with Themis, and with that qualifier will recommend it to friends - not least because it also felt good to be working with a bar prep that wasn’t ripping me off as blatantly as barbri.


you do have a point there regarding the price.

however, that price is still not ohmygodafreelunch so from that perspective their help desk was terrible. every time i would report an issue (like, there was a time when some of the essays just would not be submitted through their site), it would take them 2-3 emails just to understand what i am talking about. typical convo was something like
- hi, my administrative law essay cannot be uploaded, i keep getting rerouted to the home page
- hi, we just checked, your agency law essay has been uploaded. have a great day!

fuck that shit x days before the bar.

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zot1
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby zot1 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:13 pm

Congrats to all the passers!!!

ntlz
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby ntlz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:07 pm

Foreign first timer with a first tier LLM. Did 75% of Themis and passed NY with a MBE of 167.6 and no cramming or even much stress (although I wasn't sure I passed after weirdness of the essays). Thought Themis was a lot more relaxed than what I heard about Barbri and just took it slow and steady. I liked the friendly style of the lectures. Progressed by speed reading the outlines (literally stopwatched per page at times), watched all the lectures, many at 1.5 speed, and filled in the handouts which I found quite useful. Did my own flash cards to reflect what was hard in the lectures / MBE missed questions. Only did my own notes during final review weekend to come up with a schematic for tougher stuff.

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zor
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby zor » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:01 pm

Took NY and passed with a 167 on the MBE. For future test-takers, here's what worked for me.

I don't remember how much of Themis I did--I think it was around 90%, and I did something like 1200 MBE questions. When it came to crunch time, I skipped the MBE practice questions and just issue-spotted the essays. I did watch all the lectures and fill out all the handouts, but usually at double-speed. I skimmed the long outlines and used them for reference. Mostly what I did was repetition--skim long outline, watch stupid crappy lecture, fill out form, review short outline. This gave me the same information in different formats to help it stick. For the MBE I used the Critical Pass flashcards (link has a coupon) and I think that helped a LOT with the MBE. I would take one subject with me on the subway and just drill it when I had a few moments to spare. I didn't use Adaptibar. Themis had enough MBE questions to last me a lifetime. I also had a really good grader--she gave me super helpful feedback and read my essays carefully.

Biggest plus: not insane like Barbri. My Barbri friends were practically gnawing their own arms off. Themis was pretty chill. I didn't put in full days most of the time.

The only things I was really not pleased with were the simulated exams and the NYMC (can't help that). For the exams, I got terrible scores despite doing really well on the MBE, so maybe it was a fakeout. I was pissed they didn't actually have a grader grade your essays!

That said, it's all good now. Very pleased.

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IamIn
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby IamIn » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:14 am

zor wrote:Took NY and passed with a 167 on the MBE. For future test-takers, here's what worked for me.

I don't remember how much of Themis I did--I think it was around 90%, and I did something like 1200 MBE questions. When it came to crunch time, I skipped the MBE practice questions and just issue-spotted the essays. I did watch all the lectures and fill out all the handouts, but usually at double-speed. I skimmed the long outlines and used them for reference. Mostly what I did was repetition--skim long outline, watch stupid crappy lecture, fill out form, review short outline. This gave me the same information in different formats to help it stick. For the MBE I used the Critical Pass flashcards (link has a coupon) and I think that helped a LOT with the MBE. I would take one subject with me on the subway and just drill it when I had a few moments to spare. I didn't use Adaptibar. Themis had enough MBE questions to last me a lifetime. I also had a really good grader--she gave me super helpful feedback and read my essays carefully.

Biggest plus: not insane like Barbri. My Barbri friends were practically gnawing their own arms off. Themis was pretty chill. I didn't put in full days most of the time.

The only things I was really not pleased with were the simulated exams and the NYMC (can't help that). For the exams, I got terrible scores despite doing really well on the MBE, so maybe it was a fakeout. I was pissed they didn't actually have a grader grade your essays!

That said, it's all good now. Very pleased.


Congratulations! My study strategy was very similar to yours--I so hope it worked for me, too! :)

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simpleAs
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby simpleAs » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:22 am

Passed the Ohio bar with Themis, around 50% completion. I wouldn't recommend following my lead but I started around June 14, three ? weeks past the schedule. In the end, the best study tools for me were the MBE PQs (I would prioritize getting to the mixed sets and completing all simulated tests) and the lecture handouts, which I used to create outlines.

The MBE PQ explanations can also be very, very useful for their rule and application statements. Because I did most PQs in interactive mode, I could easily copy out the answer write-ups for concepts which I had missed or with which I was unfamiliar. These snippets went into easily reviewable documents for each subject, and because Themis writes great rule sentences and analysis this review lends itself to easy CRAC recall for MBE subject essays.

The actual MBE read and felt very different from Themis PQs, but I think drilling the practice (at least 1000 done) got me enough substance to reason out answers. Everyone seems to feel like shit during and after the MBE regardless of bar company. As for the practice essays, I wrote out very few of them; outlined some and skimmed model answers. Themis is a good deal for the money saved.

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IamIn
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby IamIn » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:22 pm

Passed VA with Themis.
I have no idea what my scores are (and I will never know), but I completed 76% of the course, and my midterm score was around 120. I would take Themis again if had to study for another jurisdiction.

MACK
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby MACK » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:44 pm

I took Themis for the FEB 2015 IL bar exam and passed on my first attempt. I completed about 75% of the course and supplemented Themis with Critical Pass flashcards for the MBE and LeanSheets outlines. I did about 1,700 MBE questions from the Themis MBE simulated questions (in practice mode where I could get instant feedback) and I felt very well prepared the bar exam. I read all the practice essays and answers as well. If you take Themis I suggest going in flex mode and start by focusing almost entirely on the MBE subjects and start doing practice MBE questions immediately and start some of the other subjects later. If you do this you will rock the MBE and will be fairly well prepared for the MBE topics that are on the MEE as well.

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anon sequitur
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby anon sequitur » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:09 pm

Passed the bar, would recommend Themis, but fuck directed study. Do flex from day 1.

gr8scOtt!
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby gr8scOtt! » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:55 pm

passed MD with themis. would recommend it.

now, does anyone know what we do with our books?

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anon sequitur
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby anon sequitur » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:17 pm

gr8scOtt! wrote:passed MD with themis. would recommend it.

now, does anyone know what we do with our books?


I sold mine on eBay, got $200 for them. No idea if I could have gotten more, just wanted them out of my house.

kateebee
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kateebee » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:52 am

anon sequitur wrote:
gr8scOtt! wrote:passed MD with themis. would recommend it.

now, does anyone know what we do with our books?


I sold mine on eBay, got $200 for them. No idea if I could have gotten more, just wanted them out of my house.


Yeesh. I threw mine in the recycling bin the day after the test. Actually, no, it was the night of the test. I wish I would have known there was resell value, haha. Don't tell my husband.

Also passed MD with Themis. Would recommend to anyone who was already pretty confident in their abilities and wanted to save money. Probably wouldn't recommend to someone who struggled in school, because I don't know how much it really helped. But I think most people probably feel that way no matter the program.




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