Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby UnamSanctam » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:03 pm

zot1 wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:
zot1 wrote:
zot1 wrote:I know someone posted before what range we should shoot for for the simulated MBE but I cannot find it at the moment. Do any of you know of the top of your head?


Never mind--I found it after searching again. Apparently my brain is just not working right at the moment.


I just finished it and my brain doesn't work. What was it?


Lol I know the feeling! It was something Iike 110-120, but I've been drinking a lot since. How did it go for you?


Raw was low 130s. I realize how much I've forgotten since the start of the course, so I feel pretty good about being above the suggested raw and kind of knowing what I need to relearn.

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zot1
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby zot1 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:06 pm

UnamSanctam wrote:
zot1 wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:
zot1 wrote:
zot1 wrote:I know someone posted before what range we should shoot for for the simulated MBE but I cannot find it at the moment. Do any of you know of the top of your head?


Never mind--I found it after searching again. Apparently my brain is just not working right at the moment.


I just finished it and my brain doesn't work. What was it?


Lol I know the feeling! It was something Iike 110-120, but I've been drinking a lot since. How did it go for you?


Raw was low 130s. I realize how much I've forgotten since the start of the course, so I feel pretty good about being above the suggested raw and kind of knowing what I need to relearn.


That's not bad at all! I feel the same way. Definitely didn't know the answers a lot of the time, but it's not like I failed the damn thing. So if I just keep reviewing and practicing, I feel like it should take care of itself.

smalogna
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby smalogna » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:57 pm

Oh man to have Professor Newman as a professor or grader, "You know, I like your answer...you seem really dialed in...you went in and you got it done."

Underoath
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Underoath » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:54 pm

I hate to "ruin" it for me...but is the Simulated Essay the same topics as the MBE topics? I'm asking because I want to take the exam, but I'm not done with certain California topics yet and don't want to start exam and then can't really take it.

Thanks

healthnut
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby healthnut » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:14 pm

Underoath wrote:I hate to "ruin" it for me...but is the Simulated Essay the same topics as the MBE topics? I'm asking because I want to take the exam, but I'm not done with certain California topics yet and don't want to start exam and then can't really take it.

Thanks


[+] Spoiler
There are essays requiring CA distinctions/law. Not all MBE. You could always do the PM because it is a CPT.
Last edited by healthnut on Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pleasye
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Pleasye » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:14 pm

Underoath wrote:I hate to "ruin" it for me...but is the Simulated Essay the same topics as the MBE topics? I'm asking because I want to take the exam, but I'm not done with certain California topics yet and don't want to start exam and then can't really take it.

Thanks

PM me what CA topics you aren't done with and I'll tell you if you're okay to take it or not. That way you'll be the least clued in on what's on there and we don't spoil it for anyone else.

adevine39
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby adevine39 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:49 pm

74.6% complete as of right now. So close to "guarantee" but I don't feel like I am anywhere near "guarantee" comfort level, although I did just do a pretty good job on my Will graded essay, if the model answer is any indication.

[+] Spoiler
Spoiler Question: Are all of the wills essay questions going to involve a no-contest provision? I think all of the practice essays have, and I have gotten that bit down pat. Between just stating the elements of what a valid will is and knowing the no-contest application and exceptions, I feel like that's like a 3 on almost every practice essay we've been assigned for wills.

always_raining
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby always_raining » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:54 am

Do the exam videos say anything helpful/extra that the written ones do not?

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zot1
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby zot1 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:28 am

Property MBE Set 5 sucked! I barely cracked 50%, but then the goal WAS 50%. I thought we had already moved on to 70%? Or maybe this was a more difficult set?

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sd5289
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby sd5289 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:42 am

zot1 wrote:Property MBE Set 5 sucked! I barely cracked 50%, but then the goal WAS 50%. I thought we had already moved on to 70%? Or maybe this was a more difficult set?


If it was anything like the 5th Contracts set, then yeah, it would've been next to impossible. I'm supposed to do this Property set (along with other set #5 sets) today, but I've got the NY simulation coming up on Tuesday and I haven't even done a single NY MC set. I've all but stopped following the Themis schedule and have been on Flex, preparing for the "milestones" that have been scheduled for last week and this week.

eloise16
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby eloise16 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:51 am

always_raining wrote:Do the exam videos say anything helpful/extra that the written ones do not?


A lot of people did not find them helpful at all. But I was not one of them. I actually found them incredibly helpful... some subjects more than others (like evidence). When I read through my own answers and the written analysis I tend to glaze over a bit, whereas the videos sort of forced me to pay attention. He also gives really good tips in my opinion about how to step by step analyze the question. I'm glad I watched them (albeit on 2X speed!).

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Pleasye
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Pleasye » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:20 pm

always_raining wrote:Do the exam videos say anything helpful/extra that the written ones do not?

I tried listening to a couple but it's pretty much just him reading the explanations and telling you if you memorize the rules you'll be fine (thanks for giving that tip over and over Themis, I would have never guessed!). If you're like the poster above and can't concentrate when reading the explanations to yourself then I guess it might be helpful to listen to them all. I just read through all the explanations and wrote out the rules for the ones I got wrong/got lucky on. And it only took me a day instead of 2 days like the videos are going to take.

smalogna
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby smalogna » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:54 pm

I'm supposed to review the MBE subjects two separate times today. Directed study is getting ridiculous.

Uk_Law15
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Uk_Law15 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:06 pm

Hello,

Checking in (rather late I know). Candidate from across the pond here and losing sanity in sunny England at the thought of the NY Bar exams.

How did you guys find the Milestone 3 exam compared to the other Milestone exams? I am not sure what to make of my grades. I thought I reached breaking point when I scored a paltry 43% on Milestone 2 earlier this week and had a huge internal debate as to whether to sit Milestone 3 this weekend. In the end, I thought that I might as well bite the bullet given that I am working right up until the weekend before the exams so don't have much time left. Surprise surprise, I scored an overall 129 marks (69% on AM session and 60% on PM session).

I'm just trying to figure out how much of this was down to pure luck as so far, my mixed set PQs have been around the 50% mark.

Was this exam easier that what we have had previously? Or dare I say it ... things are finally coming together....

Thanks

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Pleasye
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Pleasye » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:08 pm

Uk_Law15 wrote:Hello,

Checking in (rather late I know). Candidate from across the pond here and losing sanity in sunny England at the thought of the NY Bar exams.

How did you guys find the Milestone 3 exam compared to the other Milestone exams? I am not sure what to make of my grades. I thought I reached breaking point when I scored a paltry 43% on Milestone 2 earlier this week and had a huge internal debate as to whether to sit Milestone 3 this weekend. In the end, I thought that I might as well bite the bullet given that I am working right up until the weekend before the exams so don't have much time left. Surprise surprise, I scored an overall 129 marks (69% on AM session and 60% on PM session).

I'm just trying to figure out how much of this was down to pure luck as so far, my mixed set PQs have been around the 50% mark.

Was this exam easier that what we have had previously? Or dare I say it ... things are finally coming together....

Thanks

I don't think it was easier and definitely saw some questions that were ridiculously hard. It's probably all coming together for you, but I think the only way to know is to review the answers and explanations and see how many you actually knew and how many you just got lucky on.

Uk_Law15
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Uk_Law15 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:21 pm

Pleasye wrote:
Uk_Law15 wrote:Hello,

Checking in (rather late I know). Candidate from across the pond here and losing sanity in sunny England at the thought of the NY Bar exams.

How did you guys find the Milestone 3 exam compared to the other Milestone exams? I am not sure what to make of my grades. I thought I reached breaking point when I scored a paltry 43% on Milestone 2 earlier this week and had a huge internal debate as to whether to sit Milestone 3 this weekend. In the end, I thought that I might as well bite the bullet given that I am working right up until the weekend before the exams so don't have much time left. Surprise surprise, I scored an overall 129 marks (69% on AM session and 60% on PM session).

I'm just trying to figure out how much of this was down to pure luck as so far, my mixed set PQs have been around the 50% mark.

Was this exam easier that what we have had previously? Or dare I say it ... things are finally coming together....

Thanks

I don't think it was easier and definitely saw some questions that were ridiculously hard. It's probably all coming together for you, but I think the only way to know is to review the answers and explanations and see how many you actually knew and how many you just got lucky on.


Yes, a battle for another day perhaps.

On another note, it was rather disappointing to see that the Essay Exams won't be scored. I do feel that Themis could have provided this. Especially since I was told by our of the course directors that most people pass based on their essay scores and we should be looking at maximising points there as 1 Essay point is roughly equal to 4 MBE points (and there are some low hanging fruits).

hawkhill
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby hawkhill » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:34 pm

Long time lurker, finally signed up to commiserate.

I crammed hard and went over all the MBE material this past week in preparation for the practice exam, and the work seemed to pay off. I was pleasantly surprised with my score, despite still having some kinks to work out.

Now it's time to start hitting the essays and I feel utterly lost. My essay grader has been tough and somewhat helpful thus far, but seems to expect a model answer every time. Does anyone have a format that works for them (beyond simply IRAC or the like)? I know most of the material well enough, but can't seem to organize my thoughts coherently, if that makes sense.

gr8scOtt!
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby gr8scOtt! » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:41 pm

Another lol-tastic question...
[+] Spoiler
Defendant charged. Federal prosecutor arranged with D's wife to have her testify in exchange for leniency in her own case. At D's trial, pros calls wife, who was granted immunity, to testify. Which statement is correct in federal courts?

Correct answer: Wife can refuse to testify
I chose: the wife may be required to testify

Now any other time I would have said Nope, it's up to her whether she wants to testify, but she was granted immunity and I thought that if a witness was granted government immunity, she may be compelled to testify? So why isn't the second, incorrect answer actually correct?

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zot1
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby zot1 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:01 pm

gr8scOtt! wrote:Another lol-tastic question...
[+] Spoiler
Defendant charged. Federal prosecutor arranged with D's wife to have her testify in exchange for leniency in her own case. At D's trial, pros calls wife, who was granted immunity, to testify. Which statement is correct in federal courts?

Correct answer: Wife can refuse to testify
I chose: the wife may be required to testify

Now any other time I would have said Nope, it's up to her whether she wants to testify, but she was granted immunity and I thought that if a witness was granted government immunity, she may be compelled to testify? So why isn't the second, incorrect answer actually correct?


[+] Spoiler
because of spousal immunity. Although r she was granted immunity to protect her from self-incrimination, the issue here is whether she can refuse to testify against her spouse. I hope that helps.

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zot1
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby zot1 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:02 pm

hawkhill wrote:Long time lurker, finally signed up to commiserate.

I crammed hard and went over all the MBE material this past week in preparation for the practice exam, and the work seemed to pay off. I was pleasantly surprised with my score, despite still having some kinks to work out.

Now it's time to start hitting the essays and I feel utterly lost. My essay grader has been tough and somewhat helpful thus far, but seems to expect a model answer every time. Does anyone have a format that works for them (beyond simply IRAC or the like)? I know most of the material well enough, but can't seem to organize my thoughts coherently, if that makes sense.


I think I would make nailing IRAC a priority. Almost everyone I've talked to has said that this is super important when it comes to making an essay easy for a grader to grade.

Ahyis
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Ahyis » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:02 pm

gr8scOtt! wrote:Another lol-tastic question...
[+] Spoiler
Defendant charged. Federal prosecutor arranged with D's wife to have her testify in exchange for leniency in her own case. At D's trial, pros calls wife, who was granted immunity, to testify. Which statement is correct in federal courts?

Correct answer: Wife can refuse to testify
I chose: the wife may be required to testify

Now any other time I would have said Nope, it's up to her whether she wants to testify, but she was granted immunity and I thought that if a witness was granted government immunity, she may be compelled to testify? So why isn't the second, incorrect answer actually correct?


This is my own opinion, but maybe because her immunity is based on LENIENCY for HER OWN CASE? As in, if she WON'T testify, she won't get the bargained-for leniency, so that's up to her.

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BelugaWhale
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby BelugaWhale » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:11 pm

Ahyis wrote:
gr8scOtt! wrote:Another lol-tastic question...
[+] Spoiler
Defendant charged. Federal prosecutor arranged with D's wife to have her testify in exchange for leniency in her own case. At D's trial, pros calls wife, who was granted immunity, to testify. Which statement is correct in federal courts?

Correct answer: Wife can refuse to testify
I chose: the wife may be required to testify

Now any other time I would have said Nope, it's up to her whether she wants to testify, but she was granted immunity and I thought that if a witness was granted government immunity, she may be compelled to testify? So why isn't the second, incorrect answer actually correct?


This is my own opinion, but maybe because her immunity is based on LENIENCY for HER OWN CASE? As in, if she WON'T testify, she won't get the bargained-for leniency, so that's up to her.

I think this is right. I think you are mixing two types of priviledges.

One is wife's 5th amendment right against self incrimination. Another is spousal priviledge.

Since she got immunity, she can be required to testify because 5th amendment is satisfied, but there's still spousal priviledge and so she can assert that

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zot1
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby zot1 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:12 pm

Ahyis wrote:
gr8scOtt! wrote:Another lol-tastic question...
[+] Spoiler
Defendant charged. Federal prosecutor arranged with D's wife to have her testify in exchange for leniency in her own case. At D's trial, pros calls wife, who was granted immunity, to testify. Which statement is correct in federal courts?

Correct answer: Wife can refuse to testify
I chose: the wife may be required to testify

Now any other time I would have said Nope, it's up to her whether she wants to testify, but she was granted immunity and I thought that if a witness was granted government immunity, she may be compelled to testify? So why isn't the second, incorrect answer actually correct?


This is my own opinion, but maybe because her immunity is based on LENIENCY for HER OWN CASE? As in, if she WON'T testify, she won't get the bargained-for leniency, so that's up to her.


Please see my comment above. If spousal immunity is not an issue, she may be required to testify when she is given use immunity against self-incrimination. She does not get a choice on that.

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sd5289
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby sd5289 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:13 pm

zot1 wrote:
gr8scOtt! wrote:Another lol-tastic question...
[+] Spoiler
Defendant charged. Federal prosecutor arranged with D's wife to have her testify in exchange for leniency in her own case. At D's trial, pros calls wife, who was granted immunity, to testify. Which statement is correct in federal courts?

Correct answer: Wife can refuse to testify
I chose: the wife may be required to testify

Now any other time I would have said Nope, it's up to her whether she wants to testify, but she was granted immunity and I thought that if a witness was granted government immunity, she may be compelled to testify? So why isn't the second, incorrect answer actually correct?


[+] Spoiler
because of spousal immunity. Although r she was granted immunity to protect her from self-incrimination, the issue here is whether she can refuse to testify against her spouse. I hope that helps.


[+] Spoiler
^ That's where I went too. I'm guessing there's more to the question here. Confidential communications actually = D-spouse can prevent witness-spouse from testifying, and spousal privilege = witness-spouse can choose whether or not to testify, and D-spouse can't stop her if she chooses to testify so long as it's not about confidential spousal communications.

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kjartan
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby kjartan » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:19 pm

Pleasye wrote:
Uk_Law15 wrote:Hello,

Checking in (rather late I know). Candidate from across the pond here and losing sanity in sunny England at the thought of the NY Bar exams.

How did you guys find the Milestone 3 exam compared to the other Milestone exams? I am not sure what to make of my grades. I thought I reached breaking point when I scored a paltry 43% on Milestone 2 earlier this week and had a huge internal debate as to whether to sit Milestone 3 this weekend. In the end, I thought that I might as well bite the bullet given that I am working right up until the weekend before the exams so don't have much time left. Surprise surprise, I scored an overall 129 marks (69% on AM session and 60% on PM session).

I'm just trying to figure out how much of this was down to pure luck as so far, my mixed set PQs have been around the 50% mark.

Was this exam easier that what we have had previously? Or dare I say it ... things are finally coming together....

Thanks

I don't think it was easier and definitely saw some questions that were ridiculously hard. It's probably all coming together for you, but I think the only way to know is to review the answers and explanations and see how many you actually knew and how many you just got lucky on.

Agreed. I actually thought, if anything, milestone 3 was significantly more challenging (even though my score improved).




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