Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

[kjartan]

I have been falling more and more behind lately. Today, I only got .4% done because I spent the whole day working on a CPT. I copy-pasted portions of the CPT into the Simulated Essay Exam to boost my progress bar just so I could feel done for the day. How pathetic is that?

[Confused7]

I'm having difficulty separating defense of a person v.s. defense of property in a question about burglary. Here is the question from today's MBE:

[+] Spoiler

A uniformed police officer learned about a possible burglary of a home and went to investigate. When the officer arrived, she attempted to get into the home through the front door, but found it locked. Going to the back of the home, the officer found a door slightly open. Drawing her gun, she entered the home and announced that she was a police officer. The homeowner, honestly but unreasonably fearing that the officer was the person who had broken into the home earlier, shot and killed the officer. The homeowner was charged with murder of the police officer. The jurisdiction recognizes “imperfect” self-defense. Can the homeowner be convicted of this crime?

A) Yes, because homeowner killed the police officer.
B) Yes, because the homeowner’s use of deadly force was unreasonable.
C) No, because the homeowner had no duty to retreat before using deadly force.
D) No, because the homeowner honestly believed that the police officer threatened him with death or serious bodily injury.

D is the correct answer. I can definitely see why D would be right because it fulfills the imperfect self-defense criteria. But I hate that the fact that the homeowner honestly believed that the officer "threatened him with death or serious bodily injury" was in an answer choice, and not in the facts. I didn't get that sense from the facts, so I thought that the use of deadly force was unreasonable. I also thought this might be a defense of property question since the homeowner was in his house and the theft offenses are also felonies (burglary's definition encompasses the intent to commit a felony therein), in which case deadly force would never be allowed. But I can see how it would not apply, though I'm still confused as to how to separate defense of property from defense of a person when something occurs in the home.

I could be wrong, but I think there's a presumption that if someone breaks into your house while you are in the house, you are allowed to assume that they are threatening you with death or serious bodily injury. It makes sense, because usually, it's going to be dark, so it just gives the homeowner the right to reasonably believe that anyone breaking in their house may want to kill them.

Doesn't give the right to shoot someone running away with your TV or set up a trap gun obviously.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks! I guess I should just always assume that a homeowner can assume that an unknown person entering his house is threatening him with death or serious bodily injury, even if not stated in the facts. It's hard to know sometimes because some answer choices allow you to assume outside the facts ("which one of these, if true...") and others just supply extraneous/wrong information that you're not supposed to follow outside the facts.

Also, in this case the stranger was entering his house with a gun drawn, which would also strongly suggest threat of death/bodily injury as opposed to just threat of burglary.

Yes, good point! I somehow totally missed that. Thank you both.

[soj]

wouldn't be a themis essay if the model answer didn't write treatises for rule statements and wax poetic about sub-tests that don't even apply to the facts.

[zot1]

Work until 9 P.M. ... check. Get 0 progress for doing stuff outside directed study ... check. Feeling like I've forgotten every single thing I've learned so far ... check. Sangria time? ... check.

[Pleasye]

That simulated essay exam day was brutal. On the bright side, it's not hard to finish essays in time when you are just making up rules and writing "in california" before what you know is the federal rule!

(on an actual bright side, I actually finished a PT for the first time - but then the themis site deleted it lmao).

[zot1]

That simulated essay exam day was brutal. On the bright side, it's not hard to finish essays in time when you are just making up rules and writing "in california" before what you know is the federal rule!

(on an actual bright side, I actually finished a PT for the first time - but then the themis site deleted it lmao).

I'm delusional enough to have laughed at this for a solid five minutes. Sorry, bro. It gets better, I think.

[skrubba5025]

Anyone find the Scantron we are supposed to have for the MBE simulation this week? I've flipped through all 3 books and haven't found the damn thing. My email says its in the Multistate workbook but I don't see it.

[Pleasye]

Anyone find the Scantron we are supposed to have for the MBE simulation this week? I've flipped through all 3 books and haven't found the damn thing. My email says its in the Multistate workbook but I don't see it.

I don't have my book on me but they are definitely in there. Did you use the scantron for milestone 1 and 2? I think they were either in the very beginning of each exam or the end.

/unhelpful post

[skrubba5025]

Anyone find the Scantron we are supposed to have for the MBE simulation this week? I've flipped through all 3 books and haven't found the damn thing. My email says its in the Multistate workbook but I don't see it.

I don't have my book on me but they are definitely in there. Did you use the scantron for milestone 1 and 2? I think they were either in the very beginning of each exam or the end.

/unhelpful post

You were right. I actually forgot about this book as I just did the rest of them online. I found it laying under my MPRE book right after I made my post. Thanks for the heads up.

[anon sequitur]

Finally broke down and made my own outline for crim MBE, took 3 hours but definitely worth it, got my best score on a PQ set by far (like 20% improvement, I couldn't believe it). I feel dumb now for not doing it earlier, going to make one a day for each MBE subject.

[Confused7]

So looks like the MBE lectures for today go over every question with the same written explanation as that online but with someone telling us why they are such...

[teeshtee]

Hey Themis, when we finish taking a test on paper, the last thing we want to do is have to re-click, one by one, through each question online while inputting the answers. An option that allowed us to input all 100 or 200 answers on the same screen, which Barbri offers, would result in an hour saved, an hour that could be better spent doing anything else but needlessly clicking.

[Nelson]

So looks like the MBE lectures for today go over every question with the same written explanation as that online but with someone telling us why they are such...

I just watched the first one and cracked up. What the hell is the point of having this guy read an answer key.

[smalogna]

Hey Themis, when we finish taking a test on paper, the last thing we want to do is have to re-click, one by one, through each question online while inputting the answers. An option that allowed us to input all 100 or 200 answers on the same screen, which Barbri offers, would result in an hour saved, an hour that could be better spent doing anything else but needlessly clicking.

It really took you an hour to do this? I agree with your main point that it should be on one page however it took me 10 minutes max to input all 200 answers

[Nelson]

So looks like the MBE lectures for today go over every question with the same written explanation as that online but with someone telling us why they are such...

I just watched the first one and cracked up. What the hell is the point of having this guy read an answer key.

He also says at the start of each question "this was an easy question." These might be worse than the anal beads woman's MBE tips.

[teeshtee]

Hey Themis, when we finish taking a test on paper, the last thing we want to do is have to re-click, one by one, through each question online while inputting the answers. An option that allowed us to input all 100 or 200 answers on the same screen, which Barbri offers, would result in an hour saved, an hour that could be better spent doing anything else but needlessly clicking.

It really took you an hour to do this? I agree with your main point that it should be on one page however it took me 10 minutes max to input all 200 answers

I didn't time myself, but I did want to make sure that I was matching my answer choices with the correct problem numbers, and this process seemed to take a lot longer than would/should otherwise be necessary.

[Confused7]

Hey Themis, when we finish taking a test on paper, the last thing we want to do is have to re-click, one by one, through each question online while inputting the answers. An option that allowed us to input all 100 or 200 answers on the same screen, which Barbri offers, would result in an hour saved, an hour that could be better spent doing anything else but needlessly clicking.

It really took you an hour to do this? I agree with your main point that it should be on one page however it took me 10 minutes max to input all 200 answers

I didn't time myself, but I did want to make sure that I was matching my answer choices with the correct problem numbers, and this process seemed to take a lot longer than would/should otherwise be necessary.

I hear ya. I had the same thought when I was inputting my answer choices online. The last thing I want to do after a 6-hour test is to manually do this for 200 questions, no matter how mindless it is.

[habz]

So Prince Charles speaks English pretty bloody well eh?....

[hephaestus]

Themis is all about advertising unlimited essay grading, but does anyone know how to actually submit extra essays?

So just FYI for anyone that's wondering: you send a message to your attorney advisor and request an addition essay (you can request a particular subject) and then they will get back to you with an essay for you to do/submit.

[habz]

This lecturer explaining the MBE questions is really twisting the knife. "If you got the question wrong because you chose that answer you're an idiot because that answer is so OBVIOUSLY WRONG. You have to be dead not to see that."

[Ahyis]

This lecturer explaining the MBE questions is really twisting the knife. "If you got the question wrong because you chose that answer you're an idiot because that answer is so OBVIOUSLY WRONG. You have to be dead not to see that."

My favorite is a quote in one of the lectures where he basically says "Remember, always choose the right answer. Don't choose the wrong answer." THANKS BUDDY.

[Confused7]

This lecturer explaining the MBE questions is really twisting the knife. "If you got the question wrong because you chose that answer you're an idiot because that answer is so OBVIOUSLY WRONG. You have to be dead not to see that."

My favorite is a quote in one of the lectures where he basically says "Remember, always choose the right answer. Don't choose the wrong answer." THANKS BUDDY.

I cracked up when he said something like "frankly, guys say all kinds of things to get women to have sex with them" or something like that.

[paulshortys10]

Can someone go over the conflicts of interest stuff for prof resp... I'm sorta confused as to conflicts between current clients, conflicts with prospective clients, and former client conflicts...

This is even after passing the MPRE, doing well in prof resp class, and watching/reading the outlines....

[habz]

This lecturer explaining the MBE questions is really twisting the knife. "If you got the question wrong because you chose that answer you're an idiot because that answer is so OBVIOUSLY WRONG. You have to be dead not to see that."

My favorite is a quote in one of the lectures where he basically says "Remember, always choose the right answer. Don't choose the wrong answer." THANKS BUDDY.

I cracked up when he said something like "frankly, guys say all kinds of things to get women to have sex with them" or something like that.

I assume it was about the question where the guy said having sex with him would cure the woman's illness. Is it just me or is it a cop out that Themis basically just uses real cases to make up questions?

[Velours]

This lecturer explaining the MBE questions is really twisting the knife. "If you got the question wrong because you chose that answer you're an idiot because that answer is so OBVIOUSLY WRONG. You have to be dead not to see that."

My favorite is a quote in one of the lectures where he basically says "Remember, always choose the right answer. Don't choose the wrong answer." THANKS BUDDY.

I cracked up when he said something like "frankly, guys say all kinds of things to get women to have sex with them" or something like that.

I assume it was about the question where the guy said having sex with him would cure the woman's illness. Is it just me or is it a cop out that Themis basically just uses real cases to make up questions?

Are these lectures worthwhile? I thought they were basically just going over the written explanation for each question.