Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

lost in translation
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby lost in translation » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:32 am

smalogna wrote:
collegewriter wrote:
lost in translation wrote:Hi folks

Lurking for a while. Foreign student here trying desperately to catch up to your curve;) Feeling alone (hence posting on a Sunday instead of studying). While I am really excited and feel privileged to be able to go to the US to sit this test (never been before!), I also feel I'm on the brink of madness.

Anyway I wanted to share this amazing hearsay lecture on you tube. I know you all have so much at stake and the lectures weren't terribly helpful (to me anyway). It's a well spent hour (if you don't get hearsay). Don't let the guitar at the beginning put you off. This guy should have taught the whole MBE. I think I love him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNeFsjTfs2s

May I ask you guys for any advice:

1. re NY materials - I'm watching/reading family, wills, NY prac, Corps, and just going to read the rest. Did you find it worthwhile watchig all the lectures? It's been a bit hit and miss so far.

2. PRACTICAL tactics for handwriting an MPT (or just practical tactics for outlining an answer effectively, full stop?) I watched the lectures - seems like a clever guy - but freaked out because by the time I would have finished crafting his structure (and I just got confused honestly by the handout) I would run out of time to write the thing - would seem to be very difficult even with a computer. Anyway, now I have a big ole case of MPT analysis - paralysis and I panic when I try to start one.

ps - I am finding a lot of comfort in this board, so thanks to all

Cheers peeps


I found the MPT videos really confusing as well but a friend who was farther along told me to stick with it and use the method. I distilled his method into own document:
How to Write a MPT Answer:

1. Read Task Memo
a. What is the POV? Objective OR Persuasive
b. Who is the audience? Legal OR Laypeople
c. What type of assignment is it?
2. Read the Library (UNLESS the question is a problem-solving question)
a. Read the oldest cases first
b. Read shorter factual things first (like police statements)
c. Note jurisdiction and chronology as you read—controlling or not?
d. Pay attention to footnotes and quotes
e. Pay attention to relationship between cases
f. Note policy concerns
g. Note which cases are good and bad—note whether you want to be similar or different.
h. Note whether a policy will apply to you.
i. Note where it is important to differentiate your situation from controlling law.
3. Make Rules and Tests (Note: have found this step not always necessary--sometimes it means re-writing a test from materials you receive)
a. Focus on grey areas of law
b. Read cases with an eye to determining why the case is included
c. Craft a test that addresses those grey areas and the materials
d. Add the elements of the test under a heading
4. Read the File
a. Focus on finding relevant facts that prove or disprove the elements in your working outline
b. Characterize relationships and insert into your outline
c. Some facts will be irrelevant
d. Add facts into your working outline under the headings
e. Create an ATTACK outline that determines the order of arguments
5. Write
a. IRAC for objective writing
b. CRAC for persuasive writing

Sorry formatting is weird.

Keep this list by you on practice MPTs and religiously follow it. By the time you get to 5, you should be able to do it in about 20-30 minutes if you type reasonably fast. Good luck!


I've found the MPT to be the one big area of this exam that you need to be cognizant of your personal style of analysis. I tried the first two practices following the Themis method and did horribly and had no time to write my response. It's trial and error. I now read the memo, read the statutes, read the file, read the cases, and then come up with my topic titles and subtopic titles and attack each one step by step. I have abandoned the whole outline before you write process because it just doesn't work for me I try to make my outline too perfect. I've done three since I've changed my process and it's drastically improved. You just need to play around with different approaches and eventually you will find the one that works for you.




THANKS VERY MUCH - I'm just going to have to plunge in now - feeling a bit better about it though - cheers

habz
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby habz » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:19 pm

It is completely ridiculous that NY puts professional responsibility on the bar after they make you take the MPRE

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Tripl3Espresso
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Tripl3Espresso » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:58 pm

habz wrote:It is completely ridiculous that NY puts professional responsibility on the bar after they make you take the MPRE


We have it in CA too, I find it frustrating because there are multiple subjects we have to know the CA distinctions.

gr8scOtt!
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby gr8scOtt! » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:44 pm

I do not know how I can crush a mixed-set MBE, and subsequently get crushed by the next one. :|

always_raining
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby always_raining » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:06 pm

gr8scOtt! wrote:I do not know how I can crush a mixed-set MBE, and subsequently get crushed by the next one. :|



I got slaughtered by MBE mixed set 4 but was doing fine up until then. Now I'm dreading doing anymore. :(

habz
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby habz » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:19 pm

always_raining wrote:
gr8scOtt! wrote:I do not know how I can crush a mixed-set MBE, and subsequently get crushed by the next one. :|



I got slaughtered by MBE mixed set 4 but was doing fine up until then. Now I'm dreading doing anymore. :(


What state are you in? My schedule doesn't have me doing any mixed sets until next week?

Velours
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Velours » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:35 pm

habz wrote:
always_raining wrote:
gr8scOtt! wrote:I do not know how I can crush a mixed-set MBE, and subsequently get crushed by the next one. :|



I got slaughtered by MBE mixed set 4 but was doing fine up until then. Now I'm dreading doing anymore. :(


What state are you in? My schedule doesn't have me doing any mixed sets until next week?


I'm in Texas and would have started mixed MBEs on Saturday if I was on schedule. Currently set to start them on Wednesday though.

always_raining
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby always_raining » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:39 pm

habz wrote:
always_raining wrote:
gr8scOtt! wrote:I do not know how I can crush a mixed-set MBE, and subsequently get crushed by the next one. :|



I got slaughtered by MBE mixed set 4 but was doing fine up until then. Now I'm dreading doing anymore. :(


What state are you in? My schedule doesn't have me doing any mixed sets until next week?


Studying for Washington. Started Mixed MBEs on the 24th.

habz
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby habz » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:16 pm

NY Wills question. If the wife waives her right to the elective share is this also a waiver to taking by intestacy? For example, if she waives the elective share and the husband then dies intestate, will she take by the intestacy rules or will she get nothing?

gr8scOtt!
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby gr8scOtt! » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:34 pm

Do the non-MBE final review outlines include subjects like secured transactions, commercial paper, agency, partnerships, etc?

smalogna
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby smalogna » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:37 pm

habz wrote:NY Wills question. If the wife waives her right to the elective share is this also a waiver to taking by intestacy? For example, if she waives the elective share and the husband then dies intestate, will she take by the intestacy rules or will she get nothing?


The way I read it, the elective share only operates in the case of a testator who disposes of all property by will. If the testator dies intestate, there's no purpose for the elective share as there would be no attempt to disinherit the surviving spouse. So the answer to your question is by waiving her right to the elective share, she is stuck with whatever she receives under the will. I suppose if there was a portion of the estate not disposed of in the will she would have the ability to claim that by intestacy.

smalogna
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby smalogna » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:37 pm

Received my seat assignment for MA. Now this shit is getting real.

BearLaw
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby BearLaw » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:38 pm

always_raining wrote:
gr8scOtt! wrote:I do not know how I can crush a mixed-set MBE, and subsequently get crushed by the next one. :|



I got slaughtered by MBE mixed set 4 but was doing fine up until then. Now I'm dreading doing anymore. :(


Same freaking here!-- set 1, over 75%, feeling good, set 2, just over 60%... ok, not so bad. Set 3, 71%, feeling alright again. Set 4... 58% and I feel like I guessed on 1/3 of the ones I got right.

Also, the modified questions are so awful sometimes that I cannot tell what is actually being asked. And finally, fuck real property, that is all.

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skrubba5025
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby skrubba5025 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:24 pm

BearLaw wrote:
always_raining wrote:
gr8scOtt! wrote:I do not know how I can crush a mixed-set MBE, and subsequently get crushed by the next one. :|



I got slaughtered by MBE mixed set 4 but was doing fine up until then. Now I'm dreading doing anymore. :(


Same freaking here!-- set 1, over 75%, feeling good, set 2, just over 60%... ok, not so bad. Set 3, 71%, feeling alright again. Set 4... 58% and I feel like I guessed on 1/3 of the ones I got right.

Also, the modified questions are so awful sometimes that I cannot tell what is actually being asked. And finally, fuck real property, that is all.


I had the most trouble with the 3rd Mixed MBE. Went 71, 79, 58, 72. That 58 scared the shit out of me. Hopefully that fluctuation isn't around near exam time.

always_raining
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby always_raining » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:30 pm

BearLaw wrote:
always_raining wrote:
gr8scOtt! wrote:I do not know how I can crush a mixed-set MBE, and subsequently get crushed by the next one. :|



I got slaughtered by MBE mixed set 4 but was doing fine up until then. Now I'm dreading doing anymore. :(


Same freaking here!-- set 1, over 75%, feeling good, set 2, just over 60%... ok, not so bad. Set 3, 71%, feeling alright again. Set 4... 58% and I feel like I guessed on 1/3 of the ones I got right.

Also, the modified questions are so awful sometimes that I cannot tell what is actually being asked. And finally, fuck real property, that is all.


The real property questions in that set were very, very difficult. I didn't even get 25% of them right. I was doing well in property too (always between 75-85% correct!), but these ones were much more complicated (imo). Also I did that set on interactive and it probably took me 4+ hours to do it. :/

teeshtee
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby teeshtee » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:02 pm

Is anyone else getting destroyed by the "Land Sale Contract" sub-section of the "Disputes About Ownership in Land" section of Property MBE questions?

always_raining
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby always_raining » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:19 pm

teeshtee wrote:Is anyone else getting destroyed by the "Land Sale Contract" sub-section of the "Disputes About Ownership in Land" section of Property MBE questions?


That's where I get all mine wrong. The again, that's where the majority of the questions are. I have gotten about 55% right in that category.

teeshtee
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby teeshtee » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:31 pm

always_raining wrote:
teeshtee wrote:Is anyone else getting destroyed by the "Land Sale Contract" sub-section of the "Disputes About Ownership in Land" section of Property MBE questions?


That's where I get all mine wrong. The again, that's where the majority of the questions are. I have gotten about 55% right in that category.



Yea, this "sub-section" comprises 72 of the 153 Property MBE questions I've been assigned by Themis, and I've only gotten 52% right. Guess I'll go through the wrong answers and try to find some trends...

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sd5289
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby sd5289 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:52 pm

teeshtee wrote:Is anyone else getting destroyed by the "Land Sale Contract" sub-section of the "Disputes About Ownership in Land" section of Property MBE questions?


That's the one area I've been consistently good at.

Those mortgages though...

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Tripl3Espresso
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Tripl3Espresso » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:31 pm

Doing mixed MBE's on adaptibar is so much more pleasant even if the civ pro questions are equally shitty, none of the modified NCBE questions.

eloise16
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby eloise16 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:00 pm

I did 17 lectures today. It took me the entire day and it only brought me up to .7% :cry:

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annapach
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby annapach » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:48 pm

anybody know where we can get free MBE questions? I want to try something other than Themis, just to round things out.

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Tripl3Espresso
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Tripl3Espresso » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:41 am

annapach wrote:anybody know where we can get free MBE questions? I want to try something other than Themis, just to round things out.


Here are some sample ones from the NCBE: https://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=% ... ument%2F17. They have answers but no explanations. I also managed to find this site after a quick google search (don't know about the reliability though) http://barprephero.com/

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anon sequitur
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby anon sequitur » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:10 am

I didn't find a more complete explanation for this in the outline, so asking here: under the spousal confidential communication, what would *not* count as a statement in reliance of the sanctity of marriage? A statement in public, I imagine? Would there be any examples of statements that could be made in private that wouldn't be confidential?

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somuchbooty
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby somuchbooty » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:29 am

eloise16 wrote:I did 17 lectures today. It took me the entire day and it only brought me up to .7% :cry:


lol i had 20 lectures assigned today and a ton of other shit. Watching the lectures on 2X but still is taking forever.




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