Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[EyeTwitchAllSummer]

I failed the CA bar exam using Themis. Any other Themis users fail the CA bar exam? If so, first of all: I am sorry. Two: what are your thoughts on Themis? Will you re-take the exam? Are you getting a tutor, using Themis, usingother materials?

I am possibly using Themis for its one retake option. I am looking into tutors. I will probably also get Adaptbar and Bar Essays. Waiting on my scores to be mailed to me though. Thanks and best wishes, everyone.

[Raiden]

I failed the CA bar exam using Themis. Any other Themis users fail the CA bar exam? If so, first of all: I am sorry. Two: what are your thoughts on Themis? Will you re-take the exam? Are you getting a tutor, using Themis, usingother materials?

I am possibly using Themis for its one retake option. I am looking into tutors. I will probably also get Adaptbar and Bar Essays. Waiting on my scores to be mailed to me though. Thanks and best wishes, everyone.

I failed in CA with Themis as well. I plan to use the Themis repeat, but just for MBE and Essays. I don't know if I need adaptive since Themis used real MBE's (from what I understand). I want to get bar essays since I think it will be helpful to look at 65 and 50's. I also think o should get a tutor to read some essays but I don't know who or how that works. I'll get a better ideals what to do once score reports come in.

[EyeTwitchAllSummer]

I failed the CA bar exam using Themis. Any other Themis users fail the CA bar exam? If so, first of all: I am sorry. Two: what are your thoughts on Themis? Will you re-take the exam? Are you getting a tutor, using Themis, usingother materials?

I am possibly using Themis for its one retake option. I am looking into tutors. I will probably also get Adaptbar and Bar Essays. Waiting on my scores to be mailed to me though. Thanks and best wishes, everyone.

I failed in CA with Themis as well. I plan to use the Themis repeat, but just for MBE and Essays. I don't know if I need adaptive since Themis used real MBE's (from what I understand). I want to get bar essays since I think it will be helpful to look at 65 and 50's. I also think o should get a tutor to read some essays but I don't know who or how that works. I'll get a better ideals what to do once score reports come in.

I have heard from friends who passed that they found bar essays WAY MORE HELPFUL than the bar review program graders for essays. I am starting to research tutors and will post when I get more info. Thank you for your reply and KICK THAT EXAM's ASS!

[Raiden]

I failed the CA bar exam using Themis. Any other Themis users fail the CA bar exam? If so, first of all: I am sorry. Two: what are your thoughts on Themis? Will you re-take the exam? Are you getting a tutor, using Themis, usingother materials?

I am possibly using Themis for its one retake option. I am looking into tutors. I will probably also get Adaptbar and Bar Essays. Waiting on my scores to be mailed to me though. Thanks and best wishes, everyone.

I failed in CA with Themis as well. I plan to use the Themis repeat, but just for MBE and Essays. I don't know if I need adaptive since Themis used real MBE's (from what I understand). I want to get bar essays since I think it will be helpful to look at 65 and 50's. I also think o should get a tutor to read some essays but I don't know who or how that works. I'll get a better ideals what to do once score reports come in.

I have heard from friends who passed that they found bar essays WAY MORE HELPFUL than the bar review program graders for essays. I am starting to research tutors and will post when I get more info. Thank you for your reply and KICK THAT EXAM's ASS!

Thank you and likewise! Let's make the exam's eye twitch eh

[Worker and Parasite]

What's the retake policy? A free retake if I'm unsuccessful? What happens if I want to try another state? I'm going to email my advisor.

[Tripl3Espresso]

What's the retake policy? A free retake if I'm unsuccessful? What happens if I want to try another state? I'm going to email my advisor.

I believe it is a free retake if you completed a minimum of 75% of the course.

[mike.alexander23]

Just wanted to fill out this forum with some more info.

I used Themis, did 90% of the course, scored between 71-75% on the practice sets, and got ~150 on the simulated MBE exam. Although CA doesn't release MBE scores, I did the score services which advised me that my scaled score met or exceeded the 150 required to transfer my scores to ND. I'm pretty surprised that I was >150 as I felt the MBE was impossible and completely different than Themis. However, I think Themis allowed me to narrow down a lot of questions and make educated choices.

[just_lila]

I failed the CA bar exam using Themis. Any other Themis users fail the CA bar exam? If so, first of all: I am sorry. Two: what are your thoughts on Themis? Will you re-take the exam? Are you getting a tutor, using Themis, usingother materials?

I am possibly using Themis for its one retake option. I am looking into tutors. I will probably also get Adaptbar and Bar Essays. Waiting on my scores to be mailed to me though. Thanks and best wishes, everyone.

This time, I am going to use Adaptibar and BarEssays in addition to Themis. Let's wish each other good luck.

[EyeTwitchAllSummer]

I failed the CA bar exam using Themis. Any other Themis users fail the CA bar exam? If so, first of all: I am sorry. Two: what are your thoughts on Themis? Will you re-take the exam? Are you getting a tutor, using Themis, usingother materials?

I am possibly using Themis for its one retake option. I am looking into tutors. I will probably also get Adaptbar and Bar Essays. Waiting on my scores to be mailed to me though. Thanks and best wishes, everyone.

This time, I am going to use Adaptibar and BarEssays in addition to Themis. Let's wish each other good luck.

Yes! Good luck, just_lila!
Also, one of my mentors was tutored by Whitney Roberts (The Bar Code author). Roberts says she is no longer tutoring, but referred me to her colleague Patrick Lin.

I signed up with Patrick Lin for his writing intensive tutoring through http://www.barexam101.com.

[just_lila]

I failed the CA bar exam using Themis. Any other Themis users fail the CA bar exam? If so, first of all: I am sorry. Two: what are your thoughts on Themis? Will you re-take the exam? Are you getting a tutor, using Themis, usingother materials?

This time, I am going to use Adaptibar and BarEssays in addition to Themis. Let's wish each other good luck.

Yes! Good luck, just_lila!
Also, one of my mentors was tutored by Whitney Roberts (The Bar Code author). Roberts says she is no longer tutoring, but referred me to her colleague Patrick Lin.

I signed up with Patrick Lin for his writing intensive tutoring through http://www.barexam101.com.

Thank you for the link, EyeTwitchAllSummer. I'm thinking about signing up for their online PT workshop. Let me know if you have their discount code.

[EyeTwitchAllSummer]

I failed the CA bar exam using Themis. Any other Themis users fail the CA bar exam? If so, first of all: I am sorry. Two: what are your thoughts on Themis? Will you re-take the exam? Are you getting a tutor, using Themis, usingother materials?

This time, I am going to use Adaptibar and BarEssays in addition to Themis. Let's wish each other good luck.

Yes! Good luck, just_lila!
Also, one of my mentors was tutored by Whitney Roberts (The Bar Code author). Roberts says she is no longer tutoring, but referred me to her colleague Patrick Lin.

I signed up with Patrick Lin for his writing intensive tutoring through http://www.barexam101.com.

Thank you for the link, EyeTwitchAllSummer. I'm thinking about signing up for their online PT workshop. Let me know if you have their discount code.

Hi!
I do not have a discount code for barexam101.com. Nor did I have a discount code when I signed up. I paid $2,600 for the writing-intensive tutoring for essays and PTs. I just finished my first tutoring session with Patrick Lin. He dissected a Torts essay that I did. He really helped me see what I did wrong on this essay (and presumably what I do wrong on most/all essays.)

In a nutshell, this is his advice:
1) law is the foundation for your answers. You have to know the law. You don't need a verbatim knowledge, but you do need to know the buzzwords in the law and be able to make a rule using those buzzwords. Example: assault's buzzwords: intent; causation; reasonable apprehension; imminent harmful or offensive contact. Those buzzwords are your subissues that you have to apply your facts to. USE HEADERS.
2) refer to the facts. don't feel the need to copy/paste facts from fact patterns. copy/paste takes too much time. use one sentence if possible for your analysis of each subissue.
3) DON'T FORGET TO APPLY COMMON SENSE WHEN APPLYING FACTS TO THE RULE. Bar graders want to see that you do this to convince them why an element is or is not met.
4) define one rule and apply one fact, including common sense analysis. common sense facts are not in the fact pattern. bar graders want you to apply common sense facts to support your analysis.
5) Write your analysis-heavy parts of your answer FIRST. If you have time, go back and address the weaker or smaller issues.
6) approach the fact pattern like an objective 3rd party, NOT A LAWYER. Do not write your answer with the mindset that you already know whether the plaintiff does or does not have a cause of action against defendant before you begin typing. Spot all of the issues and IRAC them. Do not struggle with whether an element of a rule has or has not been met. If based on your instinct/knowledge of the law, you know that the defendant does not have intent to commit assault, say so by applying the facts and common sense. Make a decision; apply law to facts. Get in and get out FAST.

I hope this helps you as far as the type of guidance this tutor gives. I feel that he is helping me a lot with my writing and will continue to be a big help.

[EyeTwitchAllSummer]

Hey, fellow Themis peeps.

As a 2nd time bar reviewer, I am just throwing this out there for anyone who has the opportunity to get their hands on other bar materials like Barbri or BarMax. My bar tutor says he checked out the Themis outlines and says that he finds the Themis outlines of black letter law to be confusing/poorly worded.

He says that Themis' black letter law spends too much time telling you what does not meet the elements of a law as opposed to telling you what the law IS and what DOES meet the elements of the law.

My tutor uses outlines he made based on BarBri's black letter law. Having used these Barbri-based outlines for a few days now, I agree that I have a much easier time learning the law from these outlines as opposed to Themis.

Believe me: I am not trying to make anyone feel like shit and full of buyer's remorse. But if you have friends/classmates that have BarBri's outlines, try them out and compare. If you find BarBri's material is easier to understand, use it. If you find that Themis' material works for you, use Themis.

(Also posted this on the Feb 2016 Themis hangout.)

[Icametowin]

Any Oakland, CA hotel recommendations? Inexpensive and preferably under $100

[refinedwarrior]

Fuck Themis. Simply ridiculous:

[+] Spoiler

A businessman was the target of a grand jury investigation into the alleged bribery of American and foreign officials in connection with an international construction project. The businessman had stated at a press conference that no bribes had been offered or taken and that no laws of any kind had been broken. The grand jury issued a subpoena requiring the businessman to testify before it. The businessman moved to quash the subpoena on the ground that his testimony could tend to incriminate him. The prosecutor responded with a grant of use immunity (under which the businessman's compelled statements before the grand jury could not be used against him in any state or federal prosecution). The businessman responded that the grant of use immunity was not sufficient to protect his Fifth Amendment rights.
Should the businessman be compelled to testify?

A. No, because the businessman remains subject to the risk of foreign prosecution.
B. No, because use immunity does not prevent the government from prosecuting the businessman on the bribery scheme.
C. Yes, because the businessman has denied any criminal liability and therefore his Fifth Amendment rights are not at stake.
D. Yes, because the grant of use immunity is coextensive with the businessman's Fifth Amendment rights.

[+] Spoiler

Answer choice D is correct. The U.S. Supreme Court has held that if a person is guaranteed, through a grant of use immunity, that neither his statements nor the fruits of those statements can be used against him in a domestic prosecution, then he loses his right to refuse to testify because his statements cannot tend to incriminate him. Because the businessman has been protected against the use of his statements in a domestic prosecution, his statements cannot tend to incriminate him in any sense protected by the Fifth Amendment. Answer choice A is incorrect. While the businessman does face the possibility of foreign prosecution, the U.S. Supreme Court has squarely held that the Fifth Amendment does not protect against the risk of foreign prosecution. Because the businessman has been protected against the use of his statements in a domestic prosecution, his statements cannot tend to incriminate him in any sense protected by the Fifth Amendment. Answer choice B is incorrect. It is true that the grant of use immunity does not protect the businessman from being prosecuted. Instead, it protects against the businessman's compelled statements--or any fruits of those statements--being used against him in any domestic prosecution. The U.S. Supreme Court has long held that the Fifth Amendment right is satisfied by a grant of use immunity. The Fifth Amendment does not require a grant of immunity from prosecution ("transactional immunity"). Answer choice C is incorrect. The fact that the businessman has denied liability does not mean that any statement he makes could never tend to incriminate him. Even an innocent person might say something that would tend to incriminate himself, and a tendency to incriminate is all that is required to trigger Fifth Amendment protection. However, because the grant of use immunity is coextensive with the businessman's Fifth Amendment rights, he should be compelled to testify.

[+] Spoiler

You motherfuckers, Kastigar stands for the proposition that "use and derivative-use" immunity is coextensive with the Fifth Amendment. What the fuck is this "use" immunity garbage with no mention of "fruits or derivative use" in the call of the question's definition of "use immunity"? They are botching the law to pieces. Oh, you want to direct me to the Outline? Perfect: it says "use and derivative-use" immunity. I can't even.

whenever i see "immunity" paired with "grand jury" I just choose the answer that the person must testify bc of the immunity. and it's always right. that is where i have stopped on that topic.

haha I do the same and have been generally right...glad to see I'm not the only one using that approach. Now if I can only pass this VA bar exam at the second try.

[refinedwarrior]

I failed the CA bar exam using Themis. Any other Themis users fail the CA bar exam? If so, first of all: I am sorry. Two: what are your thoughts on Themis? Will you re-take the exam? Are you getting a tutor, using Themis, usingother materials?

I am possibly using Themis for its one retake option. I am looking into tutors. I will probably also get Adaptbar and Bar Essays. Waiting on my scores to be mailed to me though. Thanks and best wishes, everyone.

I failed VA in July using Themis. Kaplan seems to have a great program and those I know who used Barbri did not recommend it. I have also heard great things about Adaptibar. Are you taking the Feb exam? I am and not ready as I should since I had to work full time again while studying

Best of luck to you if you are!