Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:58 pm

I hope they don't decide to make us the first exam to try a new multiple choice subject. Delinquency or dependency would be prime for that.

They added new subjects in 2013, a 3 year waiting period seems about right.

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:21 pm

Any subjects you're completely neglecting and hoping for the best? Wills for me.

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:31 pm

727law wrote:
Just guessing for fun, I would emphasize knowing as much as you can. I didnt study Torts in July because I didnt expect it and I thought I could write a tort essay easy from MBE knowledge and my essay scores were 50/50/28(tort essay) totaling a 134 scaled and will now be sitting for a second time


What did you get on MC? I'm curious as to how much they scaled it for you.

found this, which I assume is pre-scaling:

To pass the Florida portion you must obtain an average essay score of 45 out of 100 and get 55% or more multiple choice questions correct. You must have a scaled score of 136.

starry24
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby starry24 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:58 pm

not guilty wrote:Any subjects you're completely neglecting and hoping for the best? Wills for me.


I think on MC we are getting Evidence, BE, and of course, Procedure. I would take Wills over BE any day of the week, but Wills has been tested on the last 2 exams, and the last four February exams. I'm very nervous about BE though. That's actually the subject I'm working on right now, and it's by far the worst I have done on any exam prep in quite a while. BE has always been challenging for me, both in law school and on the other bar exam I took.

I'm a first-time taker, so out of curiosity... for those who have taken the exam before, how did you find the actual FL multiple choice questions compared to the ones Barbri (or whatever program you used) provided?

starry24
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby starry24 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:59 pm

not guilty wrote:
727law wrote:
Just guessing for fun, I would emphasize knowing as much as you can. I didnt study Torts in July because I didnt expect it and I thought I could write a tort essay easy from MBE knowledge and my essay scores were 50/50/28(tort essay) totaling a 134 scaled and will now be sitting for a second time


What did you get on MC? I'm curious as to how much they scaled it for you.

found this, which I assume is pre-scaling:

To pass the Florida portion you must obtain an average essay score of 45 out of 100 and get 55% or more multiple choice questions correct. You must have a scaled score of 136.


Also, where did you find that?

THE_U
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby THE_U » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:24 pm

I dunno if this helps you all, but I passed Florida with the following raw scores:

Essays
#1 - 33
#2 - 53
#3 - 33

MC
FL Procedure - 17
Evidence - 22
Wills - 17
(averages to 62% raw)

Total Scaled Score: 138

starry24
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby starry24 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:43 pm

THE_U wrote:I dunno if this helps you all, but I passed Florida with the following raw scores:

Essays
#1 - 33
#2 - 53
#3 - 33

MC
FL Procedure - 17
Evidence - 22
Wills - 17
(averages to 62% raw)

Total Scaled Score: 138


Thanks for sharing that. I wish the Florida bar was more transparent about the scoring of this exam. How on earth does 33+53+33+17+22+17 = 138?

How were you doing on the practice multiple choice questions before the exam?

max2000
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby max2000 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:12 pm

not guilty wrote:I hope they don't decide to make us the first exam to try a new multiple choice subject. Delinquency or dependency would be prime for that.

They added new subjects in 2013, a 3 year waiting period seems about right.


More likely dependency will get tested, as it has, attached to a Family Law essay topic, and Delinquency within the crim pro section rather than getting it's own 33-34 questions, right?


:|

THE_U
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby THE_U » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:13 pm

starry24 wrote:
THE_U wrote:I dunno if this helps you all, but I passed Florida with the following raw scores:

Essays
#1 - 33
#2 - 53
#3 - 33

MC
FL Procedure - 17
Evidence - 22
Wills - 17
(averages to 62% raw)

Total Scaled Score: 138


Thanks for sharing that. I wish the Florida bar was more transparent about the scoring of this exam. How on earth does 33+53+33+17+22+17 = 138?

How were you doing on the practice multiple choice questions before the exam?

I was around those numbers...slightly higher on FL Procedure, about the same for the other two.

starry24
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby starry24 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:23 pm

THE_U wrote:
starry24 wrote:
THE_U wrote:I dunno if this helps you all, but I passed Florida with the following raw scores:

Essays
#1 - 33
#2 - 53
#3 - 33

MC
FL Procedure - 17
Evidence - 22
Wills - 17
(averages to 62% raw)

Total Scaled Score: 138


Thanks for sharing that. I wish the Florida bar was more transparent about the scoring of this exam. How on earth does 33+53+33+17+22+17 = 138?

How were you doing on the practice multiple choice questions before the exam?

I was around those numbers...slightly higher on FL Procedure, about the same for the other two.


So if you got 56/90 on the multiple choice (62%) and 119/300 on the essays (just under 40%) and that was passing... I think it's pretty clear here that the multiple choice questions are probably the key to getting to 136 on part A. Wonderful news, as these multiple choice questions are so straightforward and simple! Ugh.

Anyone else have part A scores to post?

THE_U
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby THE_U » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:13 pm

Yes, you definitely "gain" more by getting a few more multiple choice questions correct than getting a few more essay points.

Check out this link: http://www.aplusebooks.com/florida-bar- ... ed-scores/

Tries to explain the scaling and gives a couple examples.

eleph015
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby eleph015 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:18 pm

Has anyone taken any OPE? I just took the 4th one and scored an 84% (out of 100 questions). For any re-takers, how representative are these questions of the real thing? I know they are real MBE questions, but I've read in various sources that the OPEs are easier. I'm not sure how true this is. Any information is greatly appreciated :D

THE_U
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby THE_U » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:29 pm

eleph015 wrote:Has anyone taken any OPE? I just took the 4th one and scored an 84% (out of 100 questions). For any re-takers, how representative are these questions of the real thing? I know they are real MBE questions, but I've read in various sources that the OPEs are easier. I'm not sure how true this is. Any information is greatly appreciated :D

I took 4, and got an 82% I believe.

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:02 pm

scoring:

Many believe that they manipulate Part A to essentially be scored out of 190 points. Just like the MBE.
Your overall Bar Exam Percentage:

Essays: 25%
Fla MC: 25%
MBE: 50%

If true, how would they get 3 essays and 100 mc's down to 190 points? Well, your MC points are out of 90 not 100. They count for 1 point each (90).
Your essays are out of 300 but they scale this number down some how. Possibly dividing by 3. Essentially making each essay worth a max of 33.3 points. Then after arriving to those 2 scores they may add for the curve.

Look at user UC's post above: Essays = 33 + 53 + 33 = 119/3 = 39 points. MC's = 76. 39+76 = 115. Now add a curve = 138.

I think the good news is that for essay lovers, you can grab a lot of points. For MC lovers, you can have poor essays and still rebound equally with a good MC.

You know, for an organization that forces us to be open about every move we have ever made you think they would be open about scoring.

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:06 pm

THE_U wrote:Yes, you definitely "gain" more by getting a few more multiple choice questions correct than getting a few more essay points.

Check out this link: http://www.aplusebooks.com/florida-bar- ... ed-scores/

Tries to explain the scaling and gives a couple examples.

Maybe, but the bar says they are scored equal. You can only get 90 points on MC and I think the essays are close to that as well.

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:15 pm

starry24 wrote:
I think on MC we are getting Evidence, BE, and of course, Procedure. I would take Wills over BE any day of the week, but Wills has been tested on the last 2 exams, and the last four February exams. I'm very nervous about BE though. That's actually the subject I'm working on right now, and it's by far the worst I have done on any exam prep in quite a while. BE has always been challenging for me, both in law school and on the other bar exam I took.

I'm a first-time taker, so out of curiosity... for those who have taken the exam before, how did you find the actual FL multiple choice questions compared to the ones Barbri (or whatever program you used) provided?

I think students are often surprised that they have to actually know Fla rules, especially exceptions. It has a reputation for being hard but my theory is that most takers are just under-prepared for it. Sure you can bs a Contracts essay, but if you don't know how many days to file a Notice of Appeal, you're probably screwed. Don't be shocked that common sense and Federal rules weren't able to help you pass Fla MC.

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:30 pm

max2000 wrote:More likely dependency will get tested, as it has, attached to a Family Law essay topic, and Delinquency within the crim pro section rather than getting it's own 33-34 questions, right?


:|

Has Dependency been hit on? Which essay?

As for Delinquency, that would be a new strategy if they tested just a few questions on 1 subject. Remember, they define the subjects/topics on their web site. That means for example we would see:

Civ Pro
Crim Pro
Judicial Administration
Evidence
Delinquency (which is in Crim/Con Crim/Delinquency)
B&E (Corps and Partnerships)

I don't think so. And don't get me started on B&E being 1 subject yet 2 different rules regulating it.

This line of thought is correlated with how we assume they operate. Truth is, they consider the Bar to be 6 sections. And each section shall test no more than 3 subjects. The only section they give us is section 4 of the MC (2 procedures and JA). That means a student could see 18 different subjects; however, they only claim to have 17 subjects. Which is misleading in itself. More like 21.

https://www.floridabarexam.org/web/webs ... 0B0067E748

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:44 pm

starry24 wrote:
So if you got 56/90 on the multiple choice (62%) and 119/300 on the essays (just under 40%) and that was passing... I think it's pretty clear here that the multiple choice questions are probably the key to getting to 136 on part A. Wonderful news, as these multiple choice questions are so straightforward and simple! Ugh.

Anyone else have part A scores to post?


see I viewed that as he got 60% and 40%, which means he got 50% of the points available. Factoring in this curve (must have been good), 50% was enough to pass that year.

I guess I'm confused as to why the weight of MC is greater? If anything, I think there are 100 points to grab in the essays and just 90 in the MC. All weighted the same.

starry24
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby starry24 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:26 pm

not guilty wrote:
starry24 wrote:
So if you got 56/90 on the multiple choice (62%) and 119/300 on the essays (just under 40%) and that was passing... I think it's pretty clear here that the multiple choice questions are probably the key to getting to 136 on part A. Wonderful news, as these multiple choice questions are so straightforward and simple! Ugh.

Anyone else have part A scores to post?


see I viewed that as he got 60% and 40%, which means he got 50% of the points available. Factoring in this curve (must have been good), 50% was enough to pass that year.

I guess I'm confused as to why the weight of MC is greater? If anything, I think there are 100 points to grab in the essays and just 90 in the MC. All weighted the same.


"If anything, I think there are 100 points to grab in the essays and just 90 in the MC. All weighted the same." - Going by that logic - technically there are 300 points to grab in the essays and 90 in multiple choice. You may be correct about it just being the average of the two sections - I honestly don't know. I don't recall seeing anything on the bar website saying they weigh them equally though? But anyway. At this point, knowing whether they weigh one section more than the other isn't going to help me learn the material, so I've put it to rest. :)

THE_U
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby THE_U » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:31 pm

I remember Phil Sandon (big FL bar prep guy) telling us during the summer that each essay point = 3 MC questions

I don't think they are weighted equally at all.

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:18 pm

starry24 wrote:
"If anything, I think there are 100 points to grab in the essays and just 90 in the MC. All weighted the same." - Going by that logic - technically there are 300 points to grab in the essays and 90 in multiple choice. You may be correct about it just being the average of the two sections - I honestly don't know. I don't recall seeing anything on the bar website saying they weigh them equally though? But anyway. At this point, knowing whether they weigh one section more than the other isn't going to help me learn the material, so I've put it to rest. :)

well no, the essays are worth 100 total (33.3 points max per essay). The MC is worth 90 in my hypothetical. But I'm fairly certain the Bar has stated they are equal.

I misspoke though, I just meant you could write up a 70 point essay but 70 points in MC seems harder.

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:01 pm

THE_U wrote:I remember Phil Sandon (big FL bar prep guy) telling us during the summer that each essay point = 3 MC questions

I don't think they are weighted equally at all.

See that kind of helps my point. 3 essays - 300 points. They scale it to equal the MC. 3:1 ratio would work with the "divide by 3" theory I listed above. Maybe I'm missing your point and you're saying that it weighs more before scaling.

727law
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby 727law » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:00 pm

not guilty wrote:
727law wrote:
Just guessing for fun, I would emphasize knowing as much as you can. I didnt study Torts in July because I didnt expect it and I thought I could write a tort essay easy from MBE knowledge and my essay scores were 50/50/28(tort essay) totaling a 134 scaled and will now be sitting for a second time


What did you get on MC? I'm curious as to how much they scaled it for you.

found this, which I assume is pre-scaling:

To pass the Florida portion you must obtain an average essay score of 45 out of 100 and get 55% or more multiple choice questions correct. You must have a scaled score of 136.


Essay 1: 53
Essay 2: 50.5
Essay 3: 28

FL Civ/Crim Pro: 13
Evidence: 19
Wills: 14

Scaled 134

727law
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby 727law » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:05 pm

THE_U wrote:I dunno if this helps you all, but I passed Florida with the following raw scores:

Essays
#1 - 33
#2 - 53
#3 - 33

MC
FL Procedure - 17
Evidence - 22
Wills - 17
(averages to 62% raw)

Total Scaled Score: 138


This kind of pisses me off and makes no sense. Your Raw score is a 175 and you scaled a 138. My raw score was a 177.5 and I scaled a 134. Are you saying your scaled Florida was a 138? or you passed overall with a scaled 138? Because your MBE can push your overall scaled score up.

Essay 1: 53
Essay 2: 50.5
Essay 3: 28

FL Civ/Crim Pro: 13
Evidence: 19
Wills: 14

Scaled 134

THE_U
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:29 pm

Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby THE_U » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:17 pm

727law wrote:
THE_U wrote:I dunno if this helps you all, but I passed Florida with the following raw scores:

Essays
#1 - 33
#2 - 53
#3 - 33

MC
FL Procedure - 17
Evidence - 22
Wills - 17
(averages to 62% raw)

Total Scaled Score: 138


This kind of pisses me off and makes no sense. Your Raw score is a 175 and you scaled a 138. My raw score was a 177.5 and I scaled a 134. Are you saying your scaled Florida was a 138? or you passed overall with a scaled 138? Because your MBE can push your overall scaled score up.

Essay 1: 53
Essay 2: 50.5
Essay 3: 28

FL Civ/Crim Pro: 13
Evidence: 19
Wills: 14

Scaled 134
Passed FL with 138, failed MBE with 127. Overall score: 132.5




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