Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

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applethejack

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby applethejack » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:20 pm

not guilty wrote:1) Yes

2A) Dean only said one sentence to Det. Jones ("I am invoking...). So I think the essay question is better formed "Can Dean invoking his 5th Amendment right be used against him?" and I'm not sure it can. It isn't that he needed to be read Miranda, it's that he exercised his 5th and now they want to comment on his silence https://www.annenbergclassroom.org/time ... s-silence/
2B) Is Jones testimony of "something to hide?" admissible? It appears that would be an improper comment on Dean's right to remain silent.

3) Hearsay, but an exception via 90.803 (18) Admission. A statement that is offered against a party and is: The party’s own statement in either an individual or a representative capacity. Possibly get into Best Evidence Rule (authentication) of the text message.

4) Motion to exclude granted. See Fla. Stat. §90.616 (2016).

5) No effect. Double Jeopardy would not attach.


Yeah, to #3, I think there is a lot to be said by Dean about whether the police officer's actions violated the 4th and 5th amendments -- not just evidence. Ultimately, I do not think the evidence would be suppressed but I went the route of arguing that under the 4th amendment, Vicki could be seen as a gov't agent in eliciting the texts but ultimately D did not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the texts under the third-party doctrine (arguable in today's world) so there was no search requiring a warrant/probable cause. Further, there is an issue of whether Vicki's actions violated Miranda. However, since Miranda only applies to the actions by police in in deterring coercion by police officers, I found no 5th amendment violation.

For number 4, I focused on the newly passed Constitutional amendment re: Marcy's Law.

Good to talk through these issues though as the final five weeks of waiting continues!! This is a very cheap form of post-Bar therapy.

FloridaLawyer2B

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby FloridaLawyer2B » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:07 pm

applethejack wrote:
not guilty wrote:1) Yes

2A) Dean only said one sentence to Det. Jones ("I am invoking...). So I think the essay question is better formed "Can Dean invoking his 5th Amendment right be used against him?" and I'm not sure it can. It isn't that he needed to be read Miranda, it's that he exercised his 5th and now they want to comment on his silence https://www.annenbergclassroom.org/time ... s-silence/
2B) Is Jones testimony of "something to hide?" admissible? It appears that would be an improper comment on Dean's right to remain silent.

3) Hearsay, but an exception via 90.803 (18) Admission. A statement that is offered against a party and is: The party’s own statement in either an individual or a representative capacity. Possibly get into Best Evidence Rule (authentication) of the text message.

4) Motion to exclude granted. See Fla. Stat. §90.616 (2016).

5) No effect. Double Jeopardy would not attach.


Yeah, to #3, I think there is a lot to be said by Dean about whether the police officer's actions violated the 4th and 5th amendments -- not just evidence. Ultimately, I do not think the evidence would be suppressed but I went the route of arguing that under the 4th amendment, Vicki could be seen as a gov't agent in eliciting the texts but ultimately D did not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the texts under the third-party doctrine (arguable in today's world) so there was no search requiring a warrant/probable cause. Further, there is an issue of whether Vicki's actions violated Miranda. However, since Miranda only applies to the actions by police in in deterring coercion by police officers, I found no 5th amendment violation.

For number 4, I focused on the newly passed Constitutional amendment re: Marcy's Law.

Good to talk through these issues though as the final five weeks of waiting continues!! This is a very cheap form of post-Bar therapy.


Hats off to whomever actually quoted Florida statutes and had that level of mastery for this exam. It sure wasn’t me. :oops:

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Jmart082

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Jmart082 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:50 am

FloridaLawyer2B wrote:
applethejack wrote:
not guilty wrote:1) Yes

2A) Dean only said one sentence to Det. Jones ("I am invoking...). So I think the essay question is better formed "Can Dean invoking his 5th Amendment right be used against him?" and I'm not sure it can. It isn't that he needed to be read Miranda, it's that he exercised his 5th and now they want to comment on his silence https://www.annenbergclassroom.org/time ... s-silence/
2B) Is Jones testimony of "something to hide?" admissible? It appears that would be an improper comment on Dean's right to remain silent.

3) Hearsay, but an exception via 90.803 (18) Admission. A statement that is offered against a party and is: The party’s own statement in either an individual or a representative capacity. Possibly get into Best Evidence Rule (authentication) of the text message.

4) Motion to exclude granted. See Fla. Stat. §90.616 (2016).

5) No effect. Double Jeopardy would not attach.


Yeah, to #3, I think there is a lot to be said by Dean about whether the police officer's actions violated the 4th and 5th amendments -- not just evidence. Ultimately, I do not think the evidence would be suppressed but I went the route of arguing that under the 4th amendment, Vicki could be seen as a gov't agent in eliciting the texts but ultimately D did not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the texts under the third-party doctrine (arguable in today's world) so there was no search requiring a warrant/probable cause. Further, there is an issue of whether Vicki's actions violated Miranda. However, since Miranda only applies to the actions by police in in deterring coercion by police officers, I found no 5th amendment violation.

For number 4, I focused on the newly passed Constitutional amendment re: Marcy's Law.

Good to talk through these issues though as the final five weeks of waiting continues!! This is a very cheap form of post-Bar therapy.


Hats off to whomever actually quoted Florida statutes and had that level of mastery for this exam. It sure wasn’t me. :oops:

Same. Number 4 just screamed out Marcy's law to me.

not guilty

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:17 am

Jmart082 wrote:Same. Number 4 just screamed out Marcy's law to me.


I respectfully disagree. Marcy's law doesn't invalidate 90.616 http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/ind ... 0.616.html

Not to mention that it is possible this essay was written before Marcy's law passed.

not guilty

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:23 am

User Elerner PM'd me with a good point, maybe the text messages were inadmissible/unlawful due to the fact that the suspect had invoked the 5th and the victim was texting the suspect at the directive of the police. Great point!

Mitch498

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Mitch498 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:28 pm

There’s a Florida Supreme Court decision directly on point for the “right to remain silent” issue. Florida Supreme Court has interpreted the Florida constitutional right to be greater than than the us constitutional right, so the evidence is inadmissible. It’s pretty straightforward. Here’s the case:

https://www.floridasupremecourt.org/con ... 15-348.pdf

FloridaLawyer2B

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby FloridaLawyer2B » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:02 pm

Mitch498 wrote:There’s a Florida Supreme Court decision directly on point for the “right to remain silent” issue. Florida Supreme Court has interpreted the Florida constitutional right to be greater than than the us constitutional right, so the evidence is inadmissible. It’s pretty straightforward. Here’s the case:

https://www.floridasupremecourt.org/con ... 15-348.pdf


I'd look very carefully at the question the Court was deciding in that case you cited. It seems that the Court was looking at whether silence could be use as "substantive" evidence of guilt where a defendant "did not testify"....two very, very different considerations from what was in the essay on the exam. I would say generally speaking, the way the Florida Supreme's ruled on that isn't anything "greater" in terms of affording protections on a constitutional basis than would be in other states, however, this was an evidentiary question more so than a constitutional one.

Allegedly88

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Allegedly88 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:23 am

Is anyone else experiencing depression as the weeks get closer? I am sick over the thought of taking it a 4th time in February. Its hard watching classmates move up the ladder and start their own firms when you have already failed a couple of times.
How is everyone feeling?

Mitch498

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Mitch498 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:07 am

FloridaLawyer2B wrote:
Mitch498 wrote:There’s a Florida Supreme Court decision directly on point for the “right to remain silent” issue. Florida Supreme Court has interpreted the Florida constitutional right to be greater than than the us constitutional right, so the evidence is inadmissible. It’s pretty straightforward. Here’s the case:

https://www.floridasupremecourt.org/con ... 15-348.pdf


I'd look very carefully at the question the Court was deciding in that case you cited. It seems that the Court was looking at whether silence could be use as "substantive" evidence of guilt where a defendant "did not testify"....two very, very different considerations from what was in the essay on the exam. I would say generally speaking, the way the Florida Supreme's ruled on that isn't anything "greater" in terms of affording protections on a constitutional basis than would be in other states, however, this was an evidentiary question more so than a constitutional one.



Lol... ok

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Derek Vinyard

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Derek Vinyard » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:15 pm

I haven't posted in a while, so I am just checking in. This thread was a great resource for me when I passed Florida in July '18. I read some of the posts from this past bar exam about the essays and I'm not even sure what I remember at this point. I was over prepared last year when I took the Florida Bar, yet I haven't looked at any bar exam related stuff since that time. At the very least I know I can pass it again in another state if I put a couple months of studying into it.

I was thinking about taking part of the exam in another state and doing a transfer of my MBE. Time is limited to do the MBE transfer, but at this point I don't even want to bother because I am not even close to being ready to move to that state for work. I would just have to take the essay portion with the MBE again, which is better to do anyway because that allows you to transfer your scores to multiple UBE states.

johngotti

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby johngotti » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:08 pm

Allegedly88 wrote:Is anyone else experiencing depression as the weeks get closer? I am sick over the thought of taking it a 4th time in February. Its hard watching classmates move up the ladder and start their own firms when you have already failed a couple of times.
How is everyone feeling?


Yeah I'm worried but I assume everyone's the same way. I've been doing some odd jobs to earn some money which has somewhat helped keep my mind off the results. Certainly feel better than my two previous attempts but telling people you failed again is a crushing experience.

yennem

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby yennem » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:04 pm

So I got my MPRE score today (had to retake it bc it went stale) scored 121 and I passed the last bar exam.... my question to whoever knows... what happens next? Swear in ceremony? Etc etc

ELerner

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby ELerner » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:56 am

First-time FL test taker here, sat for test in July, with MBE as well. Question about scoring. Are you automatically scored by both Overall Method and Individual Method? Must you make an election as to which you want?

Thanks.

yennem

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby yennem » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:00 am

ELerner wrote:First-time FL test taker here, sat for test in July, with MBE as well. Question about scoring. Are you automatically scored by both Overall Method and Individual Method? Must you make an election as to which you want?

Thanks.


They Grade you based on the overall first, so if you sat for both they will grade based on both exams. If you pass one and fail the other and sit for the next exam then it will be based on the individual method (unless you want to retake both exams FL & MBE again to apply the overall method.

Hope this helps.

ELerner

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby ELerner » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:09 am

yennem wrote:They Grade you based on the overall first, so if you sat for both they will grade based on both exams. If you pass one and fail the other and sit for the next exam then it will be based on the individual method (unless you want to retake both exams FL & MBE again to apply the overall method.

Hope this helps.


It does. I only just now focused on the two methods. So, if I interpret it correctly, if my essays were particularly weak, my FL MCQs and my MBE can drag me across the finish line? I'd been worried that my weak essays would prevent passing the FL portion, and a strong showing in the MBE wouldn't help.

johngotti

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby johngotti » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:22 pm

ELerner wrote:
yennem wrote:They Grade you based on the overall first, so if you sat for both they will grade based on both exams. If you pass one and fail the other and sit for the next exam then it will be based on the individual method (unless you want to retake both exams FL & MBE again to apply the overall method.

Hope this helps.


It does. I only just now focused on the two methods. So, if I interpret it correctly, if my essays were particularly weak, my FL MCQs and my MBE can drag me across the finish line? I'd been worried that my weak essays would prevent passing the FL portion, and a strong showing in the MBE wouldn't help.


It's possible the FL MCq's help but the FL portion scaling is a joke and we don't know the formula. You can read through this thread and elsewhere, it seems pretty clear that they do it to cut down on the number of people who pass.

Example: If you get a 135 on FL and 137 on MBE you'll pass by the overall method even though you didn't pass FL.

Allegedly88

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Allegedly88 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:56 pm

From what i am hearing many people are saying the MBE exam was “foreign.”
I hope this means the curve will be in our favor?

johngotti

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby johngotti » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:58 pm

Allegedly88 wrote:From what i am hearing many people are saying the MBE exam was “foreign.”
I hope this means the curve will be in our favor?


The MBE average was 141.1 which is 1.6 points higher than in July 2018. Sounds good in theory but individually who cares.

Allegedly88

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Allegedly88 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:53 am

johngotti wrote:
Allegedly88 wrote:From what i am hearing many people are saying the MBE exam was “foreign.”
I hope this means the curve will be in our favor?


The MBE average was 141.1 which is 1.6 points higher than in July 2018. Sounds good in theory but individually who cares.


Where was that information released? Was this for the July 2019 bar?
Does that affect the curve in any major way?

johngotti

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby johngotti » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:51 am

Allegedly88 wrote:
johngotti wrote:
Allegedly88 wrote:From what i am hearing many people are saying the MBE exam was “foreign.”
I hope this means the curve will be in our favor?


The MBE average was 141.1 which is 1.6 points higher than in July 2018. Sounds good in theory but individually who cares.


Where was that information released? Was this for the July 2019 bar?
Does that affect the curve in any major way?


https://twitter.com/NCBEX/status/1171067169498681344

I don't think it really means anything on an individual basis.

FloridaLawyer2B

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby FloridaLawyer2B » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:51 pm

I don't think a national mean for MBE scores has much relevancy except to stress and paranoia as we enter the final stretch before we know where the chips fell. Sure its nice to know on average that people around the country did a wee bit better on the MBE this time around. What does it mean for those of us who went to Tampa? Not much.

Less than a week to go guys. Mid-to-late morning on Monday and we will all know what hand we've been dealt. Try to stay positive...it's tough to do.

yennem

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby yennem » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:28 pm

My only pending item was the MPRE, I passed two weeks ago but haven't heard from the FL bar. Anyone have experience with this?

FloridaLawyer2B

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby FloridaLawyer2B » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:02 pm

yennem wrote:My only pending item was the MPRE, I passed two weeks ago but haven't heard from the FL bar. Anyone have experience with this?


Pretty common. A lot of people had to re-up their MPRE score (like me) or take the test for the first time. A lot of newly grads from law school coming in. So they'll send you the letter confirming it, and even if they don't, you'll know Monday if they got it, because you won't be "eligible to be sworn in" if they haven't when you look at your exam results.

yennem

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby yennem » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:16 pm

FloridaLawyer2B wrote:
yennem wrote:My only pending item was the MPRE, I passed two weeks ago but haven't heard from the FL bar. Anyone have experience with this?


Pretty common. A lot of people had to re-up their MPRE score (like me) or take the test for the first time. A lot of newly grads from law school coming in. So they'll send you the letter confirming it, and even if they don't, you'll know Monday if they got it, because you won't be "eligible to be sworn in" if they haven't when you look at your exam results.


Thank you, I'll keep an eye out tomorrow when they're released.

johngotti

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby johngotti » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:02 am

Results are up


Passed mbe but failed Florida like I suspected, failed overall. Fuck the Florida portion so much.



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