Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

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Common stock

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Common stock » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:41 pm

mystikal wrote:
Common stock wrote:
mystikal wrote:Posted a couple different things fs in the fs forums if anyone is interested.



What’s the fs forum?



for sale forum/selection...check you pm



Thank you!!! Still new to all this.

not guilty

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:49 pm

johngotti wrote:Bombed the Florida MC like I figured, fuck BE. Really screwed up the Torts essay and should've done a lot better on ST and Trusts.


I've read a ton of stuff online in the past 2 days about improving on Florida MC but as long as they test the infinite number of BE stuff I don't have much hope.

Part A really is a lot to know for just one day of testing..

Property
Article 3
Fla Con Law
Fla Criminal and Juvenile
Contracts
Family Law
Dependency Law
Fed Con Law
Trusts
Torts
Article 9
Partnerships
Fla Evidence
Fla Civ Pro
Fla Crim Pro
Corporations
Wills
Ethics

leejh38

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby leejh38 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:38 am

I see there’s a first-time takers’ statistic on pass rate. But I’m wondering if there are stats on the total pass rate for Feb. 2019. I know you can do the math on total takers and total authorized to swear in. But I think that number is deceiving. Lots of people with MPRE issues I bet, which is contributing to the “not authorized to swear in” but passed situation. Anyone know of anything?

maxwell1

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby maxwell1 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:17 am

I read somewhere that the actual number is around 40% when you factor in all takers. I would ignore the authorized to be sworn in piece because that includes MPRE issues, people who still have their moral character investigations ongoing because they applied closer to the deadline, etc.

johngotti

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby johngotti » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:44 am

leejh38 wrote:I see there’s a first-time takers’ statistic on pass rate. But I’m wondering if there are stats on the total pass rate for Feb. 2019. I know you can do the math on total takers and total authorized to swear in. But I think that number is deceiving. Lots of people with MPRE issues I bet, which is contributing to the “not authorized to swear in” but passed situation. Anyone know of anything?


1869 was the total number of people who sat for the exam and 1270 were repeat takers. I don't think we'll get the overall number of people who passed but it was likely below 40% according to the tweet below.
https://twitter.com/BarProfessors/statu ... 9312703489

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Jmart082

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Jmart082 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:03 am

johngotti wrote:
leejh38 wrote:I see there’s a first-time takers’ statistic on pass rate. But I’m wondering if there are stats on the total pass rate for Feb. 2019. I know you can do the math on total takers and total authorized to swear in. But I think that number is deceiving. Lots of people with MPRE issues I bet, which is contributing to the “not authorized to swear in” but passed situation. Anyone know of anything?


1869 was the total number of people who sat for the exam and 1270 were repeat takers. I don't think we'll get the overall number of people who passed but it was likely below 40% according to the tweet below.
https://twitter.com/BarProfessors/statu ... 9312703489

It's interesting that Florida wants to dispel the notion that their pass rates are California bad by finding creative ways to pad the numbers. Why would they go to the trouble of doing that?

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kinseyjo

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby kinseyjo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:24 am

So what is the best advice for someone who is just taking FL? I got so close which is comforting but I need to blow it out of the park this time so I can be done with this crap. I think the main reason I didn't pass FL is because a) I was going through a rough breakup when I took the bar and b) I devoted every waking hour on the MBE so FL really came second.

I still have my barbri FL materials. Is it worth to pay the $250 deposit just to get their newest questions/essay info? Who has taken just FL and passed? What did you do?

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kinseyjo

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby kinseyjo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:26 am

Common stock wrote:Has anyone tried the apulsebooks website? Paid for it and used it? Thoughts? I’m trying to decide if it’s worth it. Thanks!


would also like to know about this

not guilty

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:00 am

Would be really helpful if the Bar Examiners would just create their own Part A outlines for us to purchase. I suppose the element of surprise is more exciting.

mystikal

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby mystikal » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:02 am

kinseyjo wrote:So what is the best advice for someone who is just taking FL? I got so close which is comforting but I need to blow it out of the park this time so I can be done with this crap. I think the main reason I didn't pass FL is because a) I was going through a rough breakup when I took the bar and b) I devoted every waking hour on the MBE so FL really came second.

I still have my barbri FL materials. Is it worth to pay the $250 deposit just to get their newest questions/essay info? Who has taken just FL and passed? What did you do?


I and a couple of my classmates recently passed only the Fl portion, since July we passed the MBE.
I posted what we did on the previous page, I would not use Barbri lectures, but use the multiple choice questions as a supplement. Get as many essays questions FROM THE BAR as possible. Try to devote specific time for EACH subject, the BAR only tests specifics from each subject and smaller issues in others. You knowing these can help you beat the curve and pass come July.

Common stock

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Common stock » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:52 am

I got my results. I failed by half of a fucking point.

Smiddywesson

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Smiddywesson » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:11 pm

Common stock wrote:I got my results. I failed by half of a fucking point.


Wow, so sorry to hear that. Hang in there, you'll get through this.
Which part of the test was the most problematic?

Common stock

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Common stock » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:33 pm

Smiddywesson wrote:
Common stock wrote:I got my results. I failed by half of a fucking point.


Wow, so sorry to hear that. Hang in there, you'll get through this.
Which part of the test was the most problematic?


Multiple choice I guess. If I’d gotten one more correct....
Or another half point in the essays. I’m just flabbergasted.

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Smiddywesson » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:23 pm

Common stock wrote:
Smiddywesson wrote:
Common stock wrote:I got my results. I failed by half of a fucking point.


Wow, so sorry to hear that. Hang in there, you'll get through this.
Which part of the test was the most problematic?


Multiple choice I guess. If I’d gotten one more correct....
Or another half point in the essays. I’m just flabbergasted.


Not to be Mr. Sunshine, because it's time to drink heavy and then shake it off, but you proved you can pass the test. This isn't a public opinion poll or anything, but a half point is easily within the margin of error for the grading of the essays. It's not that scientific a process.

I kinda have a theory on this based on a California study of variances in grading. In California, which calibrates the grading of their essays three times, they did a study and still found a 20% variance in the grading of identical essays. That's huge. I'd be willing to bet Florida only calibrates once. We can only image how much luck goes into those grades. This is one of the reasons they created the MBE, it's more objective.

The ironic thing is a lot of people give too much meaning to this test when many of the people who pass just had better luck than those who didn't. Look, most of the grades are clustered around the cut score, and the variation of grading, the sheer luck of how your essays are graded, is FAR wider than most of those grades. In my state, the cutoff score is 132. A margin of variance in grading, for example, a +/- factor of 20%, is equal to 26 points. This means you can get as low as 119 or as high as 145 based on sheer luck. And the funny thing is those people who get the 145 consider themselves superior to those who got the 119, completely unaware they could have submitted identical essays. These people, who benefited from luck will try to offer you advice on how to pass, when in fact, they performed no better than you did.

Don't let this get you down, you have to do this your way. Write down all the lessons you learned before you forget them. Take some time off, and roll those dice again, you will get your win. You gonna be oh tay. 8)

The_renaissance_man

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby The_renaissance_man » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:44 pm

Common stock wrote:I got my results. I failed by half of a fucking point.


You may want to consider submitting a written request to have your Part A result handscored (no charge). See below:

https://www.floridabarexam.org/web/website.nsf/52286AE9AD5D845185257C07005C3FE1/660E3F5B6C35DE2585257C0B006AA3F4


Can my essay responses be regraded?


All essay papers of applicants who took Part A and whose Part A or Overall scores were near the pass/fail line, were automatically regraded by an independent reader. There are no provisions for additional regrades of the essay portion of the examination once the examination scores are approved by the Supreme Court and released to applicants. Part A results will be handscored upon written request to verify the accuracy of the reported score, at no charge.

Hsrascal

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Hsrascal » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:50 pm

I passed 150/161 but I honestly wasn't sure how I did on Part A at ALL. I fully prepared to fail that section because it was (as usual) a cluster.

Though I am thankful to pass, in retrospect I wish I would have studied the Florida M/C stuff earlier and more thoroughly and would definitely suggest that. I was so overly focused on what could be on the essays that I missed an opportunity to feel more confident by being prepared for the more limited scope of the M/C. If I were to take it again, I would have looked that stuff over earlier and more critically before the exam. It's hard to imagine those questions are worth as much as the essays.

After all of this, I am still sort of certain that it's as much luck and not psyching yourself out as it is skill. I have always maintained that you need to take personal time and I did that during bar prep as well to keep from burning out.

johngotti

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby johngotti » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:02 pm

Jmart082 wrote:
johngotti wrote:
leejh38 wrote:I see there’s a first-time takers’ statistic on pass rate. But I’m wondering if there are stats on the total pass rate for Feb. 2019. I know you can do the math on total takers and total authorized to swear in. But I think that number is deceiving. Lots of people with MPRE issues I bet, which is contributing to the “not authorized to swear in” but passed situation. Anyone know of anything?


1869 was the total number of people who sat for the exam and 1270 were repeat takers. I don't think we'll get the overall number of people who passed but it was likely below 40% according to the tweet below.
https://twitter.com/BarProfessors/statu ... 9312703489

It's interesting that Florida wants to dispel the notion that their pass rates are California bad by finding creative ways to pad the numbers. Why would they go to the trouble of doing that?


The Bar gets to collect that $450 + $125 laptop fee (LOL) while attempting to make people believe the passing rate for first time takers is representative of the whole. It's a helluva scam.

legallyblondie

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby legallyblondie » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:05 pm

kinseyjo wrote:So what is the best advice for someone who is just taking FL? I got so close which is comforting but I need to blow it out of the park this time so I can be done with this crap. I think the main reason I didn't pass FL is because a) I was going through a rough breakup when I took the bar and b) I devoted every waking hour on the MBE so FL really came second.

I still have my barbri FL materials. Is it worth to pay the $250 deposit just to get their newest questions/essay info? Who has taken just FL and passed? What did you do?



No need to do that. I used Kaplan materials from 2015. Study all of the published essays from the bar's website. Focus a lot on FL Civ Pro/Crim Pro because you know that will be part of the MCQ.

not guilty

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:57 pm

Common stock wrote:I got my results. I failed by half of a fucking point.

what were your actual scores?

11523

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby 11523 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:16 pm

I passed. I didn't find out until today - I had to wait for the actual letter to arrive. 136/154. I am amazed that my essays were strong enough to pull up my horrible Florida MC performance.

not guilty

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:34 pm

The Torts average essay score was only 5 points more than the Article 9 average essay score? No chance that is how the essays actually looked.

Image

not guilty

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:55 pm

Someone want to fact-check their scores vs the theory below?


This is completely accurate for scaling for PART A. Obviously PART B is just the MBE scaled scoring ranges depending on the curve (it will be interesting now that 25 are throw away v. 10 throw away). So, at this point, we aren't sure the new scaling for the MBE when only 175 count nowadays.

Anyways, PART A

FL MC -- 90/100 Questions count. Scoring is based out of 100 points. Each section scores RAW on 30 points.
FL Essays -- Each Essay really is worth about 30-33 Points. So when you see your score (i.e. 50) that's really the percentage. That percentage should be used on a 30 point scale. Thus, if you got an essay score of 50, you really got a 15/30.

So here's a breakdown Sample:

Essay 1: 50 (15/30)
Essay 2: 60 (18/30)
Essay 3: 75 (22.5/30)
FL MC 1: 17/30
FL MC 2: 18/30
FL MC 3: 25/30
TOTAL: 115/180
SCALED SCORE: 160.5-163.5

I hope this helps.

johngotti

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby johngotti » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:38 pm

not guilty wrote:The Torts average essay score was only 5 points more than the Article 9 average essay score? No chance that is how the essays actually looked.


The Trusts essay wasn't difficult but when I saw it on the exam I wondered how many people were prepared for it. It turns out mostly everyone was ready. Yeah I have no idea how the average ST essay was in the same building as Torts.

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Granite » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:02 pm

I too just posted on the for sale forum; I listed a very lightly used copy of Barbri's "Testing for Florida," which is their book of practice questions.

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Granite » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:41 pm

This post is for those who only need to pass part A.

I passed part A with what I think is a good score. I only needed to pass part A because I already had a passing MBE score. But I took part B anyway (which I also passed). My rationale for taking part B, even though I already had a passing MBE score, was that even if you fail part B miserably and only pass part A by the slimmest of margins, then you still pass overall because you've individually passed both parts. So in that sense there is no downside to taking part B. And the benefit of taking both parts, even if you already have a passing MBE score, is that if you fail part A but pass part B with enough of a margin, you also pass overall––even though you've never actually passed part A.

So my advice for anyone who needs to pass part A is to still take both parts. I very roughly estimated 80% of the law overlaps between part A's "Florida law" and part B's "MBE law." That extra 20% is: a) the distinctions between Florida law and MBE law––where if you only took part A you would only be responsible for the Florida law whereas taking both parts means you need to know the distinction between Florida law and MBE law––plus b) federal civ. pro. You need to know the rest of the MBE law for part A anyway; although unlikely, part A could test you on criminal procedure, federal con law, contracts, etc. If that's accurate, then that means you're already studying 80% of the part B material anyway in your preparation for part A. So taking part B only adds another 20% of material you're responsible for, which itself you've already gone over before because you studied that for your previous passing MBE score.

It made sense for me to take on that extra 20% of material because I thought of part B as a safety net. You know what you're going to get with the MBE: it's going to be 25 questions from each of the eight subjects, and within those subjects there's only going to be a question or two on any one issue. Point being that your part B score probably reflects your knowledge of the MBE law and your ability to apply that knowledge. Whereas on part A, you might simply get unlucky and two out of three essay subjects are your worst, and one of the FL MC subjects is your weakest. That might be unlikely, but it's possible. In that scenario, you might fail part A by a small margin––even if you generally prepared well––simply because you got unlucky with the subjects tested. Taking part B reduces that uncertainty.

As far as prep goes, I used Barbri. I read several times that Barbri had the best Florida-specific information. My opinion is that their Florida-specific law isn't perfect, but it's good enough. The lectures alone aren't always enough (although sometimes they are), but the lectures + outlines are pretty comprehensive. Ultimately I would recommend Barbri because I think they have really high quality material. However I wouldn't recommend following their personal study plan and doing all of the busy work they prescribe. I found it more helpful to listen to the lecutres and then just read and re-read my notes from those lectures, filling in whatever was unclear from the lectures with the outlines. I didn't do many practice questions at all. Caution: not doing practice questions goes against all of the conventional wisdom out there, but I drew on my strong understanding of the law, rather than my familiarity with the types of questions asked, and it worked well for me.

Happy to help further.



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