Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

hockeyman969
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby hockeyman969 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:52 pm

Teamesq wrote:If the major commercial review courses did not emphasize the topics tested, then most of us are likely in the same boat with respect to the way we allocated our time studying. With that said, the curve will probably be very generous.


Likely team, that was dirty throwing in civil practice to the analysis; the bar examiners likely knew. I ran into two of them this morning with the test bags and they asked me how the UBE was compared to yesterday laughing and I said "more predictable than yesterday's shock and awe" I was tempted to say more but left it at that. They were guys in suits who were behind the podium.

Teamesq
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Teamesq » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:02 pm

Wow! That was foul. I kind of wish I would have taken both parts this time around. I feel like I may have had a better shot at the "overall passing method" rather than relying solely on Florida. My MBE score from February was pretty solid, it could have given me a buffer. Oh well... So I heard they announced that results would be posted September 18th?

hockeyman969
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby hockeyman969 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:21 pm

Teamesq wrote:Wow! That was foul. I kind of wish I would have taken both parts this time around. I feel like I may have had a better shot at the "overall passing method" rather than relying solely on Florida. My MBE score from February was pretty solid, it could have given me a buffer. Oh well... So I heard they announced that results would be posted September 18th?


Yikes, solid score and still fall short?

If they allowed MBE transfers I wouldn't be so worried about Sept 18, but dammit they don't take prior administrations except for MBE taken in FL.

Teamesq
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Teamesq » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:25 pm

Yea, solid MBE but my Florida score was so low that even with the MBE I missed it overall by 2 points. Ugh. The Florida Bar is ruining my life. Lol

Rdema
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Rdema » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:07 pm

This had to have been by far the hardest FL bar exam!! Most ridiculous essay questions. I still can't believe they tested adoption and had the audacity to test Secure Transactions AND Commercial Paper together. It's clear that their mission is to have the least amount of passing scores possible.
The MC isn't far behind! Just horrible. Torture, really!

hockeyman969
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby hockeyman969 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:15 pm

Teamesq wrote:Yea, solid MBE but my Florida score was so low that even with the MBE I missed it overall by 2 points. Ugh. The Florida Bar is ruining my life. Lol


May I ask what a solid MBE is?

I mean I'm gonna be in the 160 range on how I felt. Didnt have pleasure of studying full time for the 183 I got last year (full disclosure).

hockeyman969
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby hockeyman969 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:22 pm

Rdema wrote:This had to have been by far the hardest FL bar exam!! Most ridiculous essay questions. I still can't believe they tested adoption and had the audacity to test Secure Transactions AND Commercial Paper together. It's clear that their mission is to have the least amount of passing scores possible.
The MC isn't far behind! Just horrible. Torture, really!


I had the foresight to see 3 and 9 together and mentioned the possibility earlier.

That adoption thing was a shocker. Had the opportunity to flex my civil practice muscles though, 13 months challenging a judgment.

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lavarman84
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby lavarman84 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:59 am

I don't think it will be as bad as y'all think. Almost everyone got fucked by Dependency and Secured/Paper. I knew enough about Secured/Paper to write a decent essay but guessed a lot. I knew jackshit about Dependency and basically made up what I thought the law should be. However, I thought the FL MC wasn't difficult (then again, I was much stronger in Wills and BE than Evidence). I also thought the MBE wasn't bad. The first half was really easy imo. The second half was moderately difficult.

My essays weren't good, but I think I made up for it in the MC. I also have a strong feeling we'll get a very generous curve with the essays. I heard some people just didn't answer certain questions because they were so shocked.

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robin600
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby robin600 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:43 am

Derek Vinyard wrote:Yeah, but what if the scores are really low? They would need to give a bigger curve to get more people up to an average of 136, right? I missed a couple things like Sunshine, as I didnt really think that was applicable and thought it would be better not to put it in there than to mess it up. I probably should have mentioned it. If I fail by a point that may very well be the reason why. I came up with the purchase money mortgage idea for the last one, which I also could have screwed up, but I put it in there anyway. A google search just revealed that a commercial purchase money mortgage is at least possible, so hopefully that will be worth something. lol.

I missed the sunshine law thing too but I added a possible free speech restraint and eqp based on right to travel and age which have two different tests.
On the first essay I talked about due process and how fathers can file a paternity action. Also right to counsel bc parenting fundamental. I had handled a few TPR cases in practice so I got lucky I knew the process, although not the Florida process.
Last essay I did a mostly article 9 analysis and a A3 analysis and focused on the to order/bearer.

Also didn't have time to spell check so I'm sure my grader is going to like wtf. Ugh please lord let me pass

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robin600
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby robin600 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:48 am

hockeyman969 wrote:
DWS07224 wrote:
not guilty wrote:These are just things I mentioned at random..

Essay 1- Dependency: I got into adoption rules (employed, live in Fla, etc) parental rights rules, they are supposed to be given notice
of court proceedings. The baby daddy was interesting because he is supposed to do the father register thingy but they specifically mentioned to avoid that. Essentially they were appealing the circuit courts decision. I thought grandparents did not have much standing in regard to parental rights, but DCF is supposed to let them know about the sheltering and try to contact nearest relatives etc. Supremem Court said same sex couple is good for adoption.

Essay 2- Fla Con: Sunshine Law, Equal Protection, Rational Basis, Due process, Right to Assemble, Search & Seizure (phone taps lol), ethical conflict.

Essay 3- A9/A3: I went A9 (security agreement, attached, perfection) for most of it until that stopped check I went A3 (note vs draft). I'm sure I was wrong.



I had the same on Essay 2 plus wiretapping, vagueness/overbreadth, and special laws.

Totally messed up the A3. I had the same thoughts as you on Essay 1.


Am I the only one who analyzed challenging the judgment under the rules of civil procedure since there was no service of process? As the examiners made it a point that they challenged 13 months after the entry of judgment of termination.

That Con Law question was odd ball because it was adjusting the legislative findings which left me puzzled, I also addressed them placing a more specific government interest as the court in a time/place/manner is going to look to the government's proferred reason when deciding if a law will be valid.

Then again the Professional Responsibility qiestion tested messed up nuances...the representation was also affected by whether they controlled their representation and sent a closing letter: former client they would be ok to rep if they had informed consent because the prior work involving the youth center was transactional but if Cathy were a current client (which lawyers can be unaware), they be screwed hardcore their hands would be tied because of duty to her. "Prior representation" not "former client"

That PR issue was really really really really and I mean really nuanced, like they wanted to pour salt and squeeze lemon into the wound.

When guys who were on Harvard Law Review felt themselves burnt like bad toast or worst then nasty microwave popcorn....all in good company.

Nope I did that analysis too for the first question but I focused on not as much as timing as notice is required as is appointment of counsel if indigent.

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Pass302 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:27 am

robin600 wrote:
hockeyman969 wrote:
DWS07224 wrote:
not guilty wrote:These are just things I mentioned at random..

Essay 1- Dependency: I got into adoption rules (employed, live in Fla, etc) parental rights rules, they are supposed to be given notice
of court proceedings. The baby daddy was interesting because he is supposed to do the father register thingy but they specifically mentioned to avoid that. Essentially they were appealing the circuit courts decision. I thought grandparents did not have much standing in regard to parental rights, but DCF is supposed to let them know about the sheltering and try to contact nearest relatives etc. Supremem Court said same sex couple is good for adoption.

Essay 2- Fla Con: Sunshine Law, Equal Protection, Rational Basis, Due process, Right to Assemble, Search & Seizure (phone taps lol), ethical conflict.

Essay 3- A9/A3: I went A9 (security agreement, attached, perfection) for most of it until that stopped check I went A3 (note vs draft). I'm sure I was wrong.



I had the same on Essay 2 plus wiretapping, vagueness/overbreadth, and special laws.

Totally messed up the A3. I had the same thoughts as you on Essay 1.


Am I the only one who analyzed challenging the judgment under the rules of civil procedure since there was no service of process? As the examiners made it a point that they challenged 13 months after the entry of judgment of termination.

That Con Law question was odd ball because it was adjusting the legislative findings which left me puzzled, I also addressed them placing a more specific government interest as the court in a time/place/manner is going to look to the government's proferred reason when deciding if a law will be valid.

Then again the Professional Responsibility qiestion tested messed up nuances...the representation was also affected by whether they controlled their representation and sent a closing letter: former client they would be ok to rep if they had informed consent because the prior work involving the youth center was transactional but if Cathy were a current client (which lawyers can be unaware), they be screwed hardcore their hands would be tied because of duty to her. "Prior representation" not "former client"

That PR issue was really really really really and I mean really nuanced, like they wanted to pour salt and squeeze lemon into the wound.

When guys who were on Harvard Law Review felt themselves burnt like bad toast or worst then nasty microwave popcorn....all in good company.

Nope I did that analysis too for the first question but I focused on not as much as timing as notice is required as is appointment of counsel if indigent.



Honestly, I just rambled a bunch of things. All my essays were all over the place. In question 2 I talked about the ladies standing, but because I was so stunned, I just wrote the rule and the subheading and forgot to analyze it. But I felt good that I at least mentioned the Courts jurisdiction in Question 1 in regards to the Circuit Court having Jurisdiction and Orange County having jurisdiction since that is where the child was born and currently lives under the UCCJEA.

BUT LORD, just praying for a high MBE and a high FL MC.

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:26 pm

Nucci wrote:Here's my take on the 2017 Florida Bar Exam and MBE.

The Florida Bar and the MBE were both difficult, there's no doubt about it. If anyone tells you different, then they are not being honest.



In sum, my advice to any future Florida Bar applicants is to sit in on these guys sessions and get your moneys worth.

On another note, I'm interested to hear:
How did you feel after taking the 2017 Florida Bar?
How did you feel after taking the 2017 MBE (as part of the Florida Bar)?
What prep company did you go with?
Was it worth it and how prepared did you feel?
Was the company accurate when it came to information and similarity of practice questions?


It was difficult. Knowing the law just generally doesn't cut it more often than not.
I will say that I thought the MBE's fact patters were fine, but answer choices were a bitch.
Old material from several companies.
Not sure if worth it yet.

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby sgd19 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:16 pm

how much weight is given to the essays? those essays were just plain cruel. with the exception of a legitimate con law question, the other questions were out there in left field. you are lucky if you can get around to covering them during bar prep. there is just way too much information to have time to study them all. i studied family law but adoption was on the tail end of the study so in other words i barely looked at it.

hockeyman969
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby hockeyman969 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:00 pm

sgd19 wrote:how much weight is given to the essays? those essays were just plain cruel. with the exception of a legitimate con law question, the other questions were out there in left field. you are lucky if you can get around to covering them during bar prep. there is just way too much information to have time to study them all. i studied family law but adoption was on the tail end of the study so in other words i barely looked at it.



I agree, the only reason I got the Professional Responsibility issue cold was because my PR professor sat and obsessed for that issue for 45 minutes during one class on conflicts which was engrained among useless lectures....which I thought was absolutely useless until Tuesday when I re-stated the man's argument and conformed it to the facts. I emailed the man and thanked him last night.

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:37 pm

hockeyman969 wrote:

I agree, the only reason I got the Professional Responsibility issue cold was because my PR professor sat and obsessed for that issue for 45 minutes during one class on conflicts which was engrained among useless lectures....which I thought was absolutely useless until Tuesday when I re-stated the man's argument and conformed it to the facts. I emailed the man and thanked him last night.

What was the proper analysis? Believe I mentioned him needing to inform new client of conflict. Explained why. That was about it. Time was a ticking.

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby Teamesq » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:45 pm

For the PR issue all I did was mention the rules for conflict of interest and how it arises. I applied law to facts. Then I said in order to carry out representation of the lady the lawyer must get informed consent confirmed in writting. If there was more to it, I missed it.

hockeyman969
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby hockeyman969 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:56 pm

not guilty wrote:
hockeyman969 wrote:

I agree, the only reason I got the Professional Responsibility issue cold was because my PR professor sat and obsessed for that issue for 45 minutes during one class on conflicts which was engrained among useless lectures....which I thought was absolutely useless until Tuesday when I re-stated the man's argument and conformed it to the facts. I emailed the man and thanked him last night.

What was the proper analysis? Believe I mentioned him needing to inform new client of conflict. Explained why. That was about it. Time was a ticking.


The question turned on recent matters with Cathy. The question is if the lawyer terminated his representation by a closing letter, the lawyer is responsible for controlling the representation...sending a client tax correspondence when the lawyer did estate planning 5 years ago was enough, recent he didn't need to do anything for it to be continued.

If he didn't send a closing letter then Cathy is a current client, he blew it with the prospective client and the firm potentially faced liability for not having measures...under these circumstances the info would be harmful to Cathy as a fiduciary and potentially require pulling out of both representations because it would be adverse. You could say informed consent but his hands would be tied and would be unable to competently and diligently proceed as to either not to mention his fiduciary duty would be pulled between them as Cathy had third party standing to the litigation...bad bad and more bad since he would literally have a fiduciary duty to both sides.

If a former client then yes it's not substantially similar matter because Cathy's info was purely transactional and unrelated to the constitutionality of the statute then you could do the informed consent in writing. A very subtle issue and in line with the evil aspects of the rest of the exam.

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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby xbluehorseshoe » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:07 am

This is for anyone that hasn't take the Florida Bar yet. I flew in from out of state to take the exam (I just graduated this past Spring 2017) and just wanted to post what I discovered in case anyone else might find it helpful. Sorry for anything misspelled and if anyone has anything to add or disagree with, I would appreciate any input.

Day 1
• 3 essays in the morning for 3 hours
• 100 multiple choice questions in the afternoon for 3 hours

Florida Essay subjects (I wrote how often they have tested those subjects roughly around the last 4–5 years including this past July 2017 exam)

Florida Constitutional Law (11)
Trusts (4)
Juvenile Delinquency (2)
Article 3 UCC/Negotiable Inst. (2)
Article 9 UCC/Secured Trans. (2)
Family Law (5)
Dependency (3)
Contracts (7)
Torts (7)
Property (5)
Crim Law (1)
Crim Pro (1)
Ethics (14—every exam)


Florida Multiple Choice

Business Entities (Partnerships, Corporations)
Wills and Administration of Estates
Evidence
Crim Pro
Civ Pro

• Every exam they ask both Florida Civ Pro and Crim Pro (the actual trial stages for Florida (1st Appearance, ect.), not Federal Crim Pro which is big picture stuff)
• Every exam, they ask 2 out of 3 (Evidence, Will, Business Entities) for I think 80% of the exam and usually they ask Evidence and switch between Wills and Business Entities but about twice every 5 years they skip Evidence (that’s what happened to my exam and I wasn’t expecting Business Entities so you really want to study everything).

Day 2
• 200 multiple choice questions, 100 in the morning, 100 in the afternoon, 3 hours each time.
• 175 questions are real and count, and 25 are experimental and don’t count.

MBE

Civ Pro
Con Law
Contracts
Crim Law
Evidence
Property
Torts

Advice
1. Essays
• I would take a local Florida specific Con Law class. They love to test on that and Florida specific is way different (I had an essay where I missed something called the Sunshine Law but I am from out of state).
• Other subjects like Property, Contracts, and Torts have lots of nuances, but they are easy to learn through your Bar Prep course.
• I would take Secured Transactions (they don’t test it too often, but when they do, it’s painful if you haven’t taken it) and anything that has Commercial Paper.
• Take Wills and Trusts.
• Family Law is super easy to study for in Bar Prep so you don’t necessarily have to take that, but it might be worth it.

2. Florida Multiple Choice
• I would take a local Florida specific Business Entities course (Corporations / Partnerships). If you take an out-of-state course instead, I am assuming the main ideas are the same. But I never took these courses and found it conceptually difficult to learn.
• Again, definitely take Wills and Trusts (and if they don’t test Wills on multiple choice, they love to test Trusts on the essay portion).
• Crim Pro / Civ Pro I would just use Bar Prep. It’s way different and a lot to learn, but it’s only like 10-20% and pretty easy stuff.

3. MBE
• Definitely take Constitutional Criminal Procedure
• Take Evidence.
• For Con Law, on top of Powers / Liberties, you might want to take a 1st Amendment class and pretty much as many Constitutional Law classes as you can, because both the essay and the MBE, you will have to know a lot of Con Law.
• Take Civ Pro 2 (there were a lot of deep Civ Pro questions on the MBE).
• For Property, take an additional Property class that covers deeds and mortgages. There are like a million questions on those and we didn’t cover those our 1L year so this was super new to me.
• Later, in your last semester, I would purchase Adaptibar. If I passed, it’s only because of Adaptibar. It’s 1750 MBE questions, mostly real questions from past exams (and some are made up). The MBE is a different animal in that you can really get a high score on your bar exam if you do like a ton of MBE questions and start recognizing patterns.

Good luck to all future bar takers (maybe myself included)!

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SilvermanBarPrep
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby SilvermanBarPrep » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:12 pm

This last post is on point and extremely useful. But the Florida Board really did test on some rare topics this exam. One thing I'll add to the most recent comment is that the Florida Board has posted outlines on its website for every Florida Specific subject that they test, and they bold the areas that are most likely to be tested within each subject. It's helpful to use it in conjunction with your outlines just so that you feel you have some control over studying the material that the board deems to be the most important. Every potential subject should be studied, but not every topic in every subject should be studied equally.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:30 pm

SilvermanBarPrep wrote:This last post is on point and extremely useful. But the Florida Board really did test on some rare topics this exam. One thing I'll add to the most recent comment is that the Florida Board has posted outlines on its website for every Florida Specific subject that they test, and they bold the areas that are most likely to be tested within each subject. It's helpful to use it in conjunction with your outlines just so that you feel you have some control over studying the material that the board deems to be the most important. Every potential subject should be studied, but not every topic in every subject should be studied equally.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

Don't call those outlines. There is absolutely no law given to us. That is a table of contents. This is an actual phone call I shit you not:

me: I have the Part A study guide. Where can I find the actual law we need to learn?
Bar: It is all located right on our website.
me: no, there is no actual law written anywhere. Just titles of subjects/topics. It says "negligence" but nothing else about it.
Bar: Hold on one second..
---
Bar: Your bar prep company will have the exact material.
me: which company? also, i'm not using a company at moment? I just need to know where to turn for the law.
Bar: Sir, the law is located on our website. As for specifics you will need to find that on your own. Bye.



***Yes, I realize I needed to turn to statutes, etc but I just could not believe for such a popular/important/demanding test we aren't at the very least told what they would like us to memorize.

remainderman
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby remainderman » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:26 am

It sure would be nice if the bar could provide results within a week or two. We are in the 21st century right?

remainderman
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby remainderman » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:28 am

Hey everyone, when you have a chance please vote on the other Florida Bar Forum

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=280124

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:28 am

remainderman wrote:Hey everyone, when you have a chance please vote on the other Florida Bar Forum

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=280124

yes, we see your spam. it doesn't even make sense to say "king of florida mbe" lol.

and that's not a different "forum."

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SilvermanBarPrep
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby SilvermanBarPrep » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:18 pm

not guilty wrote:
SilvermanBarPrep wrote:This last post is on point and extremely useful. But the Florida Board really did test on some rare topics this exam. One thing I'll add to the most recent comment is that the Florida Board has posted outlines on its website for every Florida Specific subject that they test, and they bold the areas that are most likely to be tested within each subject. It's helpful to use it in conjunction with your outlines just so that you feel you have some control over studying the material that the board deems to be the most important. Every potential subject should be studied, but not every topic in every subject should be studied equally.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

Don't call those outlines. There is absolutely no law given to us. That is a table of contents. This is an actual phone call I shit you not:

me: I have the Part A study guide. Where can I find the actual law we need to learn?
Bar: It is all located right on our website.
me: no, there is no actual law written anywhere. Just titles of subjects/topics. It says "negligence" but nothing else about it.
Bar: Hold on one second..
---
Bar: Your bar prep company will have the exact material.
me: which company? also, i'm not using a company at moment? I just need to know where to turn for the law.
Bar: Sir, the law is located on our website. As for specifics you will need to find that on your own. Bye.



***Yes, I realize I needed to turn to statutes, etc but I just could not believe for such a popular/important/demanding test we aren't at the very least told what they would like us to memorize.



Fair enough. Agreed! Outlines is not the correct word.

not guilty
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Re: Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread

Postby not guilty » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:52 am

SilvermanBarPrep wrote:
Fair enough. Agreed! Outlines is not the correct word.


You should do a "Florida Part A Essentials." Or just Part A focused materials in general.




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