July 2015 California Bar Exam

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robinhoodOO
Posts: 874
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:08 pm

Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:51 am

Pleasye wrote:
soj wrote:so here's what i'm taking to the exam:
(1) laptop + charger, on essay days
(2) gov photo id
(3) 1-page admission ticket
(4) pencils
(5) other stationery, on essay days
(6) cash for lunch
(7) a watch

am i forgetting anything, like a passport photo like with the mpre? and does all this shit (other than (1)) have to be in a ziploc bag?

We can bring our own scratch paper? your list looks good to me.


Pretty sure it's provided and you can't bring your own.

Lastly, whatever you do: Don't forget your hopes and dreams. They worked for Obama, they will work for you...

RaiRai
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:27 am

Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby RaiRai » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:56 am

robinhoodOO wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
soj wrote:so here's what i'm taking to the exam:
(1) laptop + charger, on essay days
(2) gov photo id
(3) 1-page admission ticket
(4) pencils
(5) other stationery, on essay days
(6) cash for lunch
(7) a watch

am i forgetting anything, like a passport photo like with the mpre? and does all this shit (other than (1)) have to be in a ziploc bag?

We can bring our own scratch paper? your list looks good to me.


Pretty sure it's provided and you can't bring your own.

Lastly, whatever you do: Don't forget your hopes and dreams. They worked for Obama, they will work for you...



pens, blue or black, in the event (God forbid) your laptop crashes and you need to handwrite the shit

target
Posts: 688
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby target » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:07 am

soj wrote:so here's what i'm taking to the exam:
(1) laptop + charger, on essay days
(2) gov photo id
(3) 1-page admission ticket
(4) pencils
(5) other stationery, on essay days
(6) cash for lunch
(7) a watch

am i forgetting anything, like a passport photo like with the mpre? and does all this shit (other than (1)) have to be in a ziploc bag?


a dumb question: if I bring a backpack/messenger bag to put your laptop in, can I just leave it outside the testing area?

RaiRai
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:27 am

Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby RaiRai » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:13 am

target wrote:
soj wrote:so here's what i'm taking to the exam:
(1) laptop + charger, on essay days
(2) gov photo id
(3) 1-page admission ticket
(4) pencils
(5) other stationery, on essay days
(6) cash for lunch
(7) a watch

am i forgetting anything, like a passport photo like with the mpre? and does all this shit (other than (1)) have to be in a ziploc bag?


a dumb question: if I bring a backpack/messenger bag to put your laptop in, can I just leave it outside the testing area?


yup, that's what everybody does

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Raiden
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby Raiden » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:14 am

What type of watches are you guys going to bring? I think I will just use the timer built in softest.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:17 am

Raiden wrote:What type of watches are you guys going to bring? I think I will just use the timer built in softest.


Yup; same here. But you might consider a watch for MBE's. I've got an old fossil watch, but that reminds me that I need to replace the battery

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Loud Kiddington
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby Loud Kiddington » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:40 am

Do we have access to our bags during the exam?
I wanted to bring in some coffee in a insulated mug or a granola bar


Also, anyone else taking it in pasadena?

gaagoots
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby gaagoots » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:59 am

Loud Kiddington wrote:Do we have access to our bags during the exam?
I wanted to bring in some coffee in a insulated mug or a granola bar


Also, anyone else taking it in pasadena?


When they let you in the lobby area you put bags there along side the wall. Then you go into the testing only room and you can only bring your zip lock, computer. You will have the coffee and mug when you return to the lobby.

FYI the way the bags are left lined up against the walls. By the time I got to the testing center it was hard to find somewhere to leave my bag.

I had a dream last night they tested on the 17th amendment and I was going into panic mode wondering what the heck it was.

InTheWideLand I Walk
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby InTheWideLand I Walk » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:50 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:Every time I review the "selected answers" by the Bar, I'm just stunned at some of the shit others have written...Pure evidence question dealing nearly exclusively with hearsay in a civil action and a person starts the Essay by discussing Proposition 8. Why? Who the fuck would mention this? (1) It's Civil; (2) The essay makes no reference to discussing Fed and CA rules of evidence; and (3) Prop 8 has fuck all to do with hearsay anyway.

If I'm a grader and that's your lead-in to this type of question, I'm immediately questioning the minimum competency of this person; yet they receive a selected answer...Just stunned.


now, this is just a theory based on what older lawyers have told me.

there are 2 reasons why they do stuff like this:
1- the bar deliberately uses arbitrary grading criteria because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to keep the pass rate under 50%, which is their true goal, so they can serve the existing lawyers by allowing them to make more money under the laws of supply and demand by keeping otherwise competent lawyers out. every lawyer knows that- at least the older ones.

2- by using arbitrary grading criteria, what ends up happening is that dumb people that are actually not minimally competent get admitted, and because they end up being such awful lawyers, they fail to be competitive with the other existing lawyers so from an economic standpoint, the existing lawyers would make more money.

in summary, 1- they keep more people out, and 2- to let dumb people in that are not minimally competent. all so that the existing lawyers can make more money. think about it, if you passed the bar, you probably would not want anyone else to pass once ur in, except people who cant be competitive with u.

spek
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby spek » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:01 pm

Nvm, had this explained elsewhere :)
Last edited by spek on Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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a male human
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:03 pm

InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:Every time I review the "selected answers" by the Bar, I'm just stunned at some of the shit others have written...Pure evidence question dealing nearly exclusively with hearsay in a civil action and a person starts the Essay by discussing Proposition 8. Why? Who the fuck would mention this? (1) It's Civil; (2) The essay makes no reference to discussing Fed and CA rules of evidence; and (3) Prop 8 has fuck all to do with hearsay anyway.

If I'm a grader and that's your lead-in to this type of question, I'm immediately questioning the minimum competency of this person; yet they receive a selected answer...Just stunned.


now, this is just a theory based on what older lawyers have told me.

there are 2 reasons why they do stuff like this:
1- the bar deliberately uses arbitrary grading criteria because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to keep the pass rate under 50%, which is their true goal, so they can serve the existing lawyers by allowing them to make more money under the laws of supply and demand by keeping otherwise competent lawyers out. every lawyer knows that- at least the older ones.

2- by using arbitrary grading criteria, what ends up happening is that dumb people that are actually not minimally competent get admitted, and because they end up being such awful lawyers, they fail to be competitive with the other existing lawyers so from an economic standpoint, the existing lawyers would make more money.

in summary, 1- they keep more people out, and 2- to let dumb people in that are not minimally competent. all so that the existing lawyers can make more money. think about it, if you passed the bar, you probably would not want anyone else to pass once ur in, except people who cant be competitive with u.

That's quite cynical of the older lawyers you talked to, and sure, it could be what some of the older lawyers may want. But why would the State Bar itself care about possibly making more money? Most of the higher-performing students in law school do pass. And if graders really are instructed to be deliberately arbitrary, I'm sure we would have found out by now.

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Raiden
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby Raiden » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:12 pm

Loud Kiddington wrote:Do we have access to our bags during the exam?
I wanted to bring in some coffee in a insulated mug or a granola bar


Also, anyone else taking it in pasadena?



Taking it in Pasadena as well, what should we expect for those that have taken it there? What's the parking situation? I am thinking of just being dropped off, probably will leave at 7:30 am from my house to get there by 8 am.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:17 pm

a male human wrote:
InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:Every time I review the "selected answers" by the Bar, I'm just stunned at some of the shit others have written...Pure evidence question dealing nearly exclusively with hearsay in a civil action and a person starts the Essay by discussing Proposition 8. Why? Who the fuck would mention this? (1) It's Civil; (2) The essay makes no reference to discussing Fed and CA rules of evidence; and (3) Prop 8 has fuck all to do with hearsay anyway.

If I'm a grader and that's your lead-in to this type of question, I'm immediately questioning the minimum competency of this person; yet they receive a selected answer...Just stunned.


now, this is just a theory based on what older lawyers have told me.

there are 2 reasons why they do stuff like this:
1- the bar deliberately uses arbitrary grading criteria because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to keep the pass rate under 50%, which is their true goal, so they can serve the existing lawyers by allowing them to make more money under the laws of supply and demand by keeping otherwise competent lawyers out. every lawyer knows that- at least the older ones.

2- by using arbitrary grading criteria, what ends up happening is that dumb people that are actually not minimally competent get admitted, and because they end up being such awful lawyers, they fail to be competitive with the other existing lawyers so from an economic standpoint, the existing lawyers would make more money.

in summary, 1- they keep more people out, and 2- to let dumb people in that are not minimally competent. all so that the existing lawyers can make more money. think about it, if you passed the bar, you probably would not want anyone else to pass once ur in, except people who cant be competitive with u.

That's quite cynical of the older lawyers you talked to, and sure, it could be what some of the older lawyers may want. But why would the State Bar itself care about possibly making more money? Most of the higher-performing students in law school do pass. And if graders really are instructed to be deliberately arbitrary, I'm sure we would have found out by now.


Kaplan said the selected answers are to just show you what will get you a "pass." You can make incorrect rule statements, you can include superfluous crap, etc, and still pass if you're reasonably competent.

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a male human
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:40 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:
a male human wrote:
InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:Every time I review the "selected answers" by the Bar, I'm just stunned at some of the shit others have written...Pure evidence question dealing nearly exclusively with hearsay in a civil action and a person starts the Essay by discussing Proposition 8. Why? Who the fuck would mention this? (1) It's Civil; (2) The essay makes no reference to discussing Fed and CA rules of evidence; and (3) Prop 8 has fuck all to do with hearsay anyway.

If I'm a grader and that's your lead-in to this type of question, I'm immediately questioning the minimum competency of this person; yet they receive a selected answer...Just stunned.


now, this is just a theory based on what older lawyers have told me.

there are 2 reasons why they do stuff like this:
1- the bar deliberately uses arbitrary grading criteria because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to keep the pass rate under 50%, which is their true goal, so they can serve the existing lawyers by allowing them to make more money under the laws of supply and demand by keeping otherwise competent lawyers out. every lawyer knows that- at least the older ones.

2- by using arbitrary grading criteria, what ends up happening is that dumb people that are actually not minimally competent get admitted, and because they end up being such awful lawyers, they fail to be competitive with the other existing lawyers so from an economic standpoint, the existing lawyers would make more money.

in summary, 1- they keep more people out, and 2- to let dumb people in that are not minimally competent. all so that the existing lawyers can make more money. think about it, if you passed the bar, you probably would not want anyone else to pass once ur in, except people who cant be competitive with u.

That's quite cynical of the older lawyers you talked to, and sure, it could be what some of the older lawyers may want. But why would the State Bar itself care about possibly making more money? Most of the higher-performing students in law school do pass. And if graders really are instructed to be deliberately arbitrary, I'm sure we would have found out by now.


Kaplan said the selected answers are to just show you what will get you a "pass." You can make incorrect rule statements, you can include superfluous crap, etc, and still pass if you're reasonably competent.

yeah

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soj
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby soj » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:55 pm

Pleasye wrote:
soj wrote:so here's what i'm taking to the exam:
(1) laptop + charger, on essay days
(2) gov photo id
(3) 1-page admission ticket
(4) pencils
(5) other stationery, on essay days
(6) cash for lunch
(7) a watch

am i forgetting anything, like a passport photo like with the mpre? and does all this shit (other than (1)) have to be in a ziploc bag?

We can bring our own scratch paper? your list looks good to me.

o, by stationery i meant highlighters and pens. we can bring those on essay days, right?

i think i'll bring earplugs too. never know what construction might be happening

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robinhoodOO
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:32 pm

soj wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
soj wrote:so here's what i'm taking to the exam:
(1) laptop + charger, on essay days
(2) gov photo id
(3) 1-page admission ticket
(4) pencils
(5) other stationery, on essay days
(6) cash for lunch
(7) a watch

am i forgetting anything, like a passport photo like with the mpre? and does all this shit (other than (1)) have to be in a ziploc bag?

We can bring our own scratch paper? your list looks good to me.

o, by stationery i meant highlighters and pens. we can bring those on essay days, right?

i think i'll bring earplugs too. never know what construction might be happening



Image

InTheWideLand I Walk
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby InTheWideLand I Walk » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:42 pm

a male human wrote:
InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:Every time I review the "selected answers" by the Bar, I'm just stunned at some of the shit others have written...Pure evidence question dealing nearly exclusively with hearsay in a civil action and a person starts the Essay by discussing Proposition 8. Why? Who the fuck would mention this? (1) It's Civil; (2) The essay makes no reference to discussing Fed and CA rules of evidence; and (3) Prop 8 has fuck all to do with hearsay anyway.

If I'm a grader and that's your lead-in to this type of question, I'm immediately questioning the minimum competency of this person; yet they receive a selected answer...Just stunned.


now, this is just a theory based on what older lawyers have told me.

there are 2 reasons why they do stuff like this:
1- the bar deliberately uses arbitrary grading criteria because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to keep the pass rate under 50%, which is their true goal, so they can serve the existing lawyers by allowing them to make more money under the laws of supply and demand by keeping otherwise competent lawyers out. every lawyer knows that- at least the older ones.

2- by using arbitrary grading criteria, what ends up happening is that dumb people that are actually not minimally competent get admitted, and because they end up being such awful lawyers, they fail to be competitive with the other existing lawyers so from an economic standpoint, the existing lawyers would make more money.

in summary, 1- they keep more people out, and 2- to let dumb people in that are not minimally competent. all so that the existing lawyers can make more money. think about it, if you passed the bar, you probably would not want anyone else to pass once ur in, except people who cant be competitive with u.

That's quite cynical of the older lawyers you talked to, and sure, it could be what some of the older lawyers may want. But why would the State Bar itself care about possibly making more money? Most of the higher-performing students in law school do pass. And if graders really are instructed to be deliberately arbitrary, I'm sure we would have found out by now.


its not the state bar that is making money off of it, its the lawyers. and who are the only people who can reasonably make a difference in changing it? the lawyers. will they? hell no.

the state bar probably doesn't even know its doing it. they are more of a machine than a mind anyway.

e.g. if a new law grad walks up to the state bar office of admissions and says "hey, prop 8 is irrelevant in CA civil evidence essays so you shouldn't give people points for it"- I think every lawyer in the state of CA will back up the office of admissions.

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BuenAbogado
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby BuenAbogado » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:13 pm

InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
a male human wrote:
InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:Every time I review the "selected answers" by the Bar, I'm just stunned at some of the shit others have written...Pure evidence question dealing nearly exclusively with hearsay in a civil action and a person starts the Essay by discussing Proposition 8. Why? Who the fuck would mention this? (1) It's Civil; (2) The essay makes no reference to discussing Fed and CA rules of evidence; and (3) Prop 8 has fuck all to do with hearsay anyway.

If I'm a grader and that's your lead-in to this type of question, I'm immediately questioning the minimum competency of this person; yet they receive a selected answer...Just stunned.


now, this is just a theory based on what older lawyers have told me.

there are 2 reasons why they do stuff like this:
1- the bar deliberately uses arbitrary grading criteria because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to keep the pass rate under 50%, which is their true goal, so they can serve the existing lawyers by allowing them to make more money under the laws of supply and demand by keeping otherwise competent lawyers out. every lawyer knows that- at least the older ones.

2- by using arbitrary grading criteria, what ends up happening is that dumb people that are actually not minimally competent get admitted, and because they end up being such awful lawyers, they fail to be competitive with the other existing lawyers so from an economic standpoint, the existing lawyers would make more money.

in summary, 1- they keep more people out, and 2- to let dumb people in that are not minimally competent. all so that the existing lawyers can make more money. think about it, if you passed the bar, you probably would not want anyone else to pass once ur in, except people who cant be competitive with u.

That's quite cynical of the older lawyers you talked to, and sure, it could be what some of the older lawyers may want. But why would the State Bar itself care about possibly making more money? Most of the higher-performing students in law school do pass. And if graders really are instructed to be deliberately arbitrary, I'm sure we would have found out by now.


its not the state bar that is making money off of it, its the lawyers. and who are the only people who can reasonably make a difference in changing it? the lawyers. will they? hell no.

the state bar probably doesn't even know its doing it. they are more of a machine than a mind anyway.

e.g. if a new law grad walks up to the state bar office of admissions and says "hey, prop 8 is irrelevant in CA civil evidence essays so you shouldn't give people points for it"- I think every lawyer in the state of CA will back up the office of admissions.


Understandable. But let me ask you this: are the statistics re: top schools passing fabricated? If this was skewed to make top students fail, wouldn't third tier have a much higher pass rate than T14?

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robinhoodOO
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:15 pm

BuenAbogado wrote:
InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
a male human wrote:
InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:Every time I review the "selected answers" by the Bar, I'm just stunned at some of the shit others have written...Pure evidence question dealing nearly exclusively with hearsay in a civil action and a person starts the Essay by discussing Proposition 8. Why? Who the fuck would mention this? (1) It's Civil; (2) The essay makes no reference to discussing Fed and CA rules of evidence; and (3) Prop 8 has fuck all to do with hearsay anyway.

If I'm a grader and that's your lead-in to this type of question, I'm immediately questioning the minimum competency of this person; yet they receive a selected answer...Just stunned.


now, this is just a theory based on what older lawyers have told me.

there are 2 reasons why they do stuff like this:
1- the bar deliberately uses arbitrary grading criteria because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to keep the pass rate under 50%, which is their true goal, so they can serve the existing lawyers by allowing them to make more money under the laws of supply and demand by keeping otherwise competent lawyers out. every lawyer knows that- at least the older ones.

2- by using arbitrary grading criteria, what ends up happening is that dumb people that are actually not minimally competent get admitted, and because they end up being such awful lawyers, they fail to be competitive with the other existing lawyers so from an economic standpoint, the existing lawyers would make more money.

in summary, 1- they keep more people out, and 2- to let dumb people in that are not minimally competent. all so that the existing lawyers can make more money. think about it, if you passed the bar, you probably would not want anyone else to pass once ur in, except people who cant be competitive with u.

That's quite cynical of the older lawyers you talked to, and sure, it could be what some of the older lawyers may want. But why would the State Bar itself care about possibly making more money? Most of the higher-performing students in law school do pass. And if graders really are instructed to be deliberately arbitrary, I'm sure we would have found out by now.


its not the state bar that is making money off of it, its the lawyers. and who are the only people who can reasonably make a difference in changing it? the lawyers. will they? hell no.

the state bar probably doesn't even know its doing it. they are more of a machine than a mind anyway.

e.g. if a new law grad walks up to the state bar office of admissions and says "hey, prop 8 is irrelevant in CA civil evidence essays so you shouldn't give people points for it"- I think every lawyer in the state of CA will back up the office of admissions.


Understandable. But let me ask you this: are the statistics re: top schools passing fabricated? If this was skewed to make top students fail, wouldn't third tier have a much higher pass rate than T14?


Of course not. Guy sounds like he's got a chip on his shoulder because he failed prior.

No offense, guy...But, Jesus: You're making some wild and baseless accusations. Tone it down a bit.

Calicakes
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby Calicakes » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:27 pm

Loud Kiddington wrote:Do we have access to our bags during the exam?
I wanted to bring in some coffee in a insulated mug or a granola bar


Also, anyone else taking it in pasadena?



I don't think you can bring food in unless you were previously granted accommodations and then you would not be taking it with everyone else. You'd be taking it with only people who had similar accommodations.

Calicakes
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby Calicakes » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:29 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:
a male human wrote:
InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:Every time I review the "selected answers" by the Bar, I'm just stunned at some of the shit others have written...Pure evidence question dealing nearly exclusively with hearsay in a civil action and a person starts the Essay by discussing Proposition 8. Why? Who the fuck would mention this? (1) It's Civil; (2) The essay makes no reference to discussing Fed and CA rules of evidence; and (3) Prop 8 has fuck all to do with hearsay anyway.

If I'm a grader and that's your lead-in to this type of question, I'm immediately questioning the minimum competency of this person; yet they receive a selected answer...Just stunned.


now, this is just a theory based on what older lawyers have told me.

there are 2 reasons why they do stuff like this:
1- the bar deliberately uses arbitrary grading criteria because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to keep the pass rate under 50%, which is their true goal, so they can serve the existing lawyers by allowing them to make more money under the laws of supply and demand by keeping otherwise competent lawyers out. every lawyer knows that- at least the older ones.

2- by using arbitrary grading criteria, what ends up happening is that dumb people that are actually not minimally competent get admitted, and because they end up being such awful lawyers, they fail to be competitive with the other existing lawyers so from an economic standpoint, the existing lawyers would make more money.

in summary, 1- they keep more people out, and 2- to let dumb people in that are not minimally competent. all so that the existing lawyers can make more money. think about it, if you passed the bar, you probably would not want anyone else to pass once ur in, except people who cant be competitive with u.

That's quite cynical of the older lawyers you talked to, and sure, it could be what some of the older lawyers may want. But why would the State Bar itself care about possibly making more money? Most of the higher-performing students in law school do pass. And if graders really are instructed to be deliberately arbitrary, I'm sure we would have found out by now.


Kaplan said the selected answers are to just show you what will get you a "pass." You can make incorrect rule statements, you can include superfluous crap, etc, and still pass if you're reasonably competent.



I did a criminal practice question and the model answer completely had the facts WRONG. The person went on and on about how the D bashed the V over the head. Model answer mentioned that fact a couple times. I had to go back and double check because NO WHERE did it say D hit V over the head. D hit V, V fell and cracked his skull. I could NOT believe that was a selected answer.

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BuenAbogado
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby BuenAbogado » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:32 pm

Trying to crowdsource a bit here.

1. Can people bring up instances in essays where CEC has led to an alternate or substantial likelihood of an alternate result vs. the FRE? I'm trying to determine which exceptions to really focus on.

2. (A) Also, is a defendant considered unavailable for purposes of statement against interest, dying dec., etc. if he is present but merely refuses to testify? (B) How about party admission?

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robinhoodOO
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:33 pm

Calicakes wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:
a male human wrote:
InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:Every time I review the "selected answers" by the Bar, I'm just stunned at some of the shit others have written...Pure evidence question dealing nearly exclusively with hearsay in a civil action and a person starts the Essay by discussing Proposition 8. Why? Who the fuck would mention this? (1) It's Civil; (2) The essay makes no reference to discussing Fed and CA rules of evidence; and (3) Prop 8 has fuck all to do with hearsay anyway.

If I'm a grader and that's your lead-in to this type of question, I'm immediately questioning the minimum competency of this person; yet they receive a selected answer...Just stunned.


now, this is just a theory based on what older lawyers have told me.

there are 2 reasons why they do stuff like this:
1- the bar deliberately uses arbitrary grading criteria because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to keep the pass rate under 50%, which is their true goal, so they can serve the existing lawyers by allowing them to make more money under the laws of supply and demand by keeping otherwise competent lawyers out. every lawyer knows that- at least the older ones.

2- by using arbitrary grading criteria, what ends up happening is that dumb people that are actually not minimally competent get admitted, and because they end up being such awful lawyers, they fail to be competitive with the other existing lawyers so from an economic standpoint, the existing lawyers would make more money.

in summary, 1- they keep more people out, and 2- to let dumb people in that are not minimally competent. all so that the existing lawyers can make more money. think about it, if you passed the bar, you probably would not want anyone else to pass once ur in, except people who cant be competitive with u.

That's quite cynical of the older lawyers you talked to, and sure, it could be what some of the older lawyers may want. But why would the State Bar itself care about possibly making more money? Most of the higher-performing students in law school do pass. And if graders really are instructed to be deliberately arbitrary, I'm sure we would have found out by now.


Kaplan said the selected answers are to just show you what will get you a "pass." You can make incorrect rule statements, you can include superfluous crap, etc, and still pass if you're reasonably competent.



I did a criminal practice question and the model answer completely had the facts WRONG. The person went on and on about how the D bashed the V over the head. Model answer mentioned that fact a couple times. I had to go back and double check because NO WHERE did it say D hit V over the head. D hit V, V fell and cracked his skull. I could NOT believe that was a selected answer.


I just want to reiterate, they're not selected because they're the best answers. This should give us confidence that we can screw up and still pass ;)

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BuenAbogado
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby BuenAbogado » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:33 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:
BuenAbogado wrote:
InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
a male human wrote:
InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:Every time I review the "selected answers" by the Bar, I'm just stunned at some of the shit others have written...Pure evidence question dealing nearly exclusively with hearsay in a civil action and a person starts the Essay by discussing Proposition 8. Why? Who the fuck would mention this? (1) It's Civil; (2) The essay makes no reference to discussing Fed and CA rules of evidence; and (3) Prop 8 has fuck all to do with hearsay anyway.

If I'm a grader and that's your lead-in to this type of question, I'm immediately questioning the minimum competency of this person; yet they receive a selected answer...Just stunned.


now, this is just a theory based on what older lawyers have told me.

there are 2 reasons why they do stuff like this:
1- the bar deliberately uses arbitrary grading criteria because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to keep the pass rate under 50%, which is their true goal, so they can serve the existing lawyers by allowing them to make more money under the laws of supply and demand by keeping otherwise competent lawyers out. every lawyer knows that- at least the older ones.

2- by using arbitrary grading criteria, what ends up happening is that dumb people that are actually not minimally competent get admitted, and because they end up being such awful lawyers, they fail to be competitive with the other existing lawyers so from an economic standpoint, the existing lawyers would make more money.

in summary, 1- they keep more people out, and 2- to let dumb people in that are not minimally competent. all so that the existing lawyers can make more money. think about it, if you passed the bar, you probably would not want anyone else to pass once ur in, except people who cant be competitive with u.

That's quite cynical of the older lawyers you talked to, and sure, it could be what some of the older lawyers may want. But why would the State Bar itself care about possibly making more money? Most of the higher-performing students in law school do pass. And if graders really are instructed to be deliberately arbitrary, I'm sure we would have found out by now.


its not the state bar that is making money off of it, its the lawyers. and who are the only people who can reasonably make a difference in changing it? the lawyers. will they? hell no.

the state bar probably doesn't even know its doing it. they are more of a machine than a mind anyway.

e.g. if a new law grad walks up to the state bar office of admissions and says "hey, prop 8 is irrelevant in CA civil evidence essays so you shouldn't give people points for it"- I think every lawyer in the state of CA will back up the office of admissions.


Understandable. But let me ask you this: are the statistics re: top schools passing fabricated? If this was skewed to make top students fail, wouldn't third tier have a much higher pass rate than T14?


Of course not. Guy sounds like he's got a chip on his shoulder because he failed prior.

No offense, guy...But, Jesus: You're making some wild and baseless accusations. Tone it down a bit.


So basically, what you're saying is that he mad breh.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:35 pm

BuenAbogado wrote:
So basically, what you're saying is that he mad breh.


Yes




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