July 2015 California Bar Exam

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rcharter1978
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby rcharter1978 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:25 am

Okay -- here are my scores. You will judge me harshly, and thats okay, the scores are pretty damn terrible.

Essay 1: 65
Essay 2: 55
Essay 3: 70
Essay 4: 55
Essay 5: 55
Essay 6: 45 (I swear I'm not as dumb as this score makes me seem. I can actually tie my shoes)
PT-A: 55
PT-B: 60

Raw Written: 575
Scaled Written: 1316.097
Scaled MBE: 1492

I know that my essays and PT's need work.....serious, serious work. I'm considering getting a tutor, but it is not cheap. What do you all think?

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a male human
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:15 am

AntiHuman wrote:
lulyer123 wrote:
AntiHuman wrote:Long time lurker on the threads. I've helped several people pass their 2nd time around on the exam. Some of my stats:

1. Took LSAT at 18 years old. Failed. High GPA combined with low LSAT I ended up at a good school.
2. Horrible law school grades. Never used IRAC or learned how to spot issues. Did virtually no studying in law school.
3. Took bar exam at 22 years old and failed first time. Studied about 30 hours total and attended no barbri classes or did any homework. So far from this story you can tell I am not a good test taker(aka didn't know wtf I was doing).

Scores my first time:

Essays: 55, 55, 60, 60, 85, 55
PTs: 55, 60
MBE: Slightly below passing

The 85 may jump out at you. This isn't an intelligence test. You will do well if you know how to approach the exam and study smart(not hard). Most importantly, you must know how to spot ALL the issues(or as many as you can). I asked a professor why the huge discrepancy on my essays. On the contracts essay, I spotted every issue and got an 85. I failed the rest because I didn't spot several minor issues. Issue spotting DETERMINES your score. Not analysis. People might bash me on this. Everyone will know the rules and have analysis. Shoutout to Injun on this for commending me, but I am big on spotting issues.

2nd time: I walked out of the exam and went straight to the bar to buy everyone shots because I knew I passed. It was that easy. No matter your score the first time, you can pass the 2nd time. It's just a matter of knowing how to approach the exam. I just put the first exam behind me, took a deep breathe and started researching strategies on what to do differently.

Failing sucks, but nobody has ever asked me my law school grades or how many times I took the bar exam. It will all be laughable in a few years.

PM me for exact details on what I did differently the 2nd time around on each section of the exam(MBE, essays, PTs).


This. Essays are all about issue spotting. If you miss an issue, you automatically lose points for the rules and analysis since you have none. Its not hard making up common sense rules. Analysis is also really just regurgitating facts, and it doesn't even matter what conclusion you end up with. Most of the fact patterns are made so that you can make an argument for both sides anyways.

I "did" all the practice essays on Themis which was basically reading the fact pattern, spotting the issue, and writing it down as a header. I never bothered to state the rule or do any analysis on the practice tests and literally spent 5 minutes on each essay. I then read the model answers just to see if I got all the issues and how the analysis was done. Because of this, I was able to pinpoint most of the issues extremely quickly on the real test, and spent the rest of the time bsing analysis and rules. I finished all the 3 hours blocks with at least 45 minutes left. I passed.

I also honestly don't see the point of hiring an essay grader to give feedback. People should be able to compare their own answer and a model answer and see what's missing/different. I feel like people would learn more by fixing their own mistakes instead of having someone else tell you what's wrong, not to mention the amount of money you would save.

P.S. LET THE FACT PATTERN GUIDE YOUR ANSWER. I know all the bar programs say this from day one. The issue should be jumping out at you when you read the fact pattern. When I see it, I immediately write the topic in the exam software, which basically forms my headers.



1. From the outset I will say if you were not even close to passing, you MUST do something different. If you did Barbri or a course the first time, try something new. Do NOT do Barbri AMPs or watch the lectures(or any videos) or go through those long barbri outlines(CMR is better). Yall wasted a bunch of time doing this the first time. Skip the nonsense and go straight into reading the CMR and doing practice essays/MBEs/PTs. Check the model answers and see how many issues you spotted. Also create a detailed issue checklist for each subject(more detailed issue checklist than the Barbri ones) as well as a list of rules for each subject that you can memorize. The CMR is great for the MBE. Adaptibar is MUCH better for the MBE as well.


2. I hope I didn't sound cocky by saying the exam "was easy" or that I knew I passed walking out the 2nd time, but you will know if you get 65+ on your essays based on how well you spot the issues. I walked out knowing I got 65+ on every essay and every PT. 65 is the borderline of passing and you should know what a 65 looks like. That should be the LOWEST you should be getting on each essay(minus 1 or 2 really crazy questions or subjects you don't like). To get a 65, you have to spot every MAJOR issue. If you miss one major issue, you are at a 55-60. Minor issues separate the 65's from the 80's.

Essays:
2. Lulyer123 really nailed it with this response. I probably couldn't have said it better and that is EXACTLY what I did for the essays. If graders spend 3-4 minutes per essay(keep in mind though that they themselves wrote out their answers to the question and can go through an answer pretty quickly), they are using a checklist of issues to see how many you spot. I highly doubt they are reading EVERY single word of your analysis and comprehending it all. The issues come first and are most important. Thats how I got an 85. My analysis on my 85 wasn't that good. I hate contracts and barely know the law. But issue spotting for contracts comes very easy for me. I spotted literally every single possible issue on that question.

I apologize as its easier for me to talk about it than type. PM me if anyone wants me to go into more depth. There's just too much to say.

I agree with everything quoted above

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a male human
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:16 am

Does anyone (passer or not) want to donate their past failed essays? Scans or pictures are fine. You'll get to showcase your work to the world (for free, publicly), and it will help future students!

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby BrokenMouse » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:01 am

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Last edited by BrokenMouse on Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby BrokenMouse » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:12 am

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Last edited by BrokenMouse on Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LSHopeful91
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby LSHopeful91 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:44 am

BrokenMouse wrote:
LSHopeful91 wrote:I scored a 1439. A FUCKING 1439. The first reader failed me by a couple of points, the second reader passed me by a couple of points, but not enough that the average of the two scores is at 1440. What a crock of shit.


You must do this: Pay $25 dollars and make the CA Bar devils regrade your MBE. Check the bar website there is a link to a form. Sometimes there is a point or two you can squeeze out because the machine doesn't scan properly. People have passed this way and certainly being 1 point away, even 1-2 MBE question is a big deal. I already failed with 15+ over so I have no hope but YOU DO!!!

Please do this.


How do I go about doing this? I would rather spend the $25 than have to spend however much money and time for another examination. Also, might I add how fucked up it is that if the second grader would have been the first grader, I would have passed. That is truly maddening and shows just how arbitrary this test can be.

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rcharter1978
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby rcharter1978 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:18 am

LSHopeful91 wrote:
BrokenMouse wrote:
LSHopeful91 wrote:I scored a 1439. A FUCKING 1439. The first reader failed me by a couple of points, the second reader passed me by a couple of points, but not enough that the average of the two scores is at 1440. What a crock of shit.


You must do this: Pay $25 dollars and make the CA Bar devils regrade your MBE. Check the bar website there is a link to a form. Sometimes there is a point or two you can squeeze out because the machine doesn't scan properly. People have passed this way and certainly being 1 point away, even 1-2 MBE question is a big deal. I already failed with 15+ over so I have no hope but YOU DO!!!

Please do this.


How do I go about doing this? I would rather spend the $25 than have to spend however much money and time for another examination. Also, might I add how fucked up it is that if the second grader would have been the first grader, I would have passed. That is truly maddening and shows just how arbitrary this test can be.


Man -- do whatever you can, appeal however you can. Maybe no one thought through that you would get a 1439. I bet if you can appeal, someone will just break and give you the extra damn point. As my mom says, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, so you gotta squeak as much as you possibly can.

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catechumen
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby catechumen » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:13 am

4th time taking it. This test hates me! Any feed back anyone can give would be appreated. Any resources you guys want to give me would be a life saver. I will take anything!

This test gave me my highest and lowest grades yet. Never got a 45 before, and never got a 70! This is crazy! I don't know whether to feel proud at getting a 70, or just stupid for getting a 45. All I can say is that Ethics/BA cross over was way too long for an hour essay. A solid page of text, give me a break!

Essay #1-55
Essay #2-50
Essay #3-70
Essay #4-50
Essay #5-45
Essay #6-55

PT #1- 50
PT#2- 60

written:1225.62

MBE- 1391

Readyfortheresults
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby Readyfortheresults » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:35 am

Hi guys,

Can someone help me interpret my results? I live in England so just got the letter today. I especially want to understand the MBE portion because I have zero idea what it means and it looks like it's far and away my biggest weakness. I just bought adaptibar and plan on devoting some heavy duty time to it.

Essay #1: 75
Essay #2: 70
Essay #3: 70
Essay #4: 55
Essay #5: 50
Essay #6: 60
PT A: 50
PT B: 55

Raw written: 590
Scaled Written: 1361.3310
Scaled MBE: 1245
Total scaled score: 1320.6152

And if any one does know.. what would I have needed to score in multiple choice to have passed? And what I did in fact get?

Thank you! - and I remember another poster saying to take another State Bar if the points difference was quite high. So i'm actually going to take another state in Feb -- though this MBE really really needs to be higher.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby BrokenMouse » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:43 am

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Last edited by BrokenMouse on Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Readyfortheresults
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby Readyfortheresults » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:50 am

a male human wrote:Does anyone (passer or not) want to donate their past failed essays? Scans or pictures are fine. You'll get to showcase your work to the world (for free, publicly), and it will help future students!


Hey malehuman, once my essays come in, I am happy to scan/ donate them for others so that this whole process can be easier. My first three essays (day one) felt magically solid. And I wasn't wrong about that when seeing the results. The others left something more to be desired. Day 1 was like an Ode to 1L classes. Day 3 was definitely a challenge.

And if any one can help interpret a Scaled MBE score (1245) would be forever grateful. Can't believe how low it was - i did so much practice. Sigh. It was never my strength - I always knew that.

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rcharter1978
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby rcharter1978 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:56 am

Readyfortheresults wrote:
a male human wrote:Does anyone (passer or not) want to donate their past failed essays? Scans or pictures are fine. You'll get to showcase your work to the world (for free, publicly), and it will help future students!


Hey malehuman, once my essays come in, I am happy to scan/ donate them for others so that this whole process can be easier. My first three essays (day one) felt magically solid. And I wasn't wrong about that when seeing the results. The others left something more to be desired. Day 1 was like an Ode to 1L classes. Day 3 was definitely a challenge.

And if any one can help interpret a Scaled MBE score (1245) would be forever grateful. Can't believe how low it was - i did so much practice. Sigh. It was never my strength - I always knew that.


I have no idea how to do it -- however, I started a thread asking people to help me convert the CBX scaled MBE score and I got a lot of good help. Maybe you can post your question there too.

6TimeFailure
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby 6TimeFailure » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:17 pm

BrokenMouse wrote:I am still open to receiving donations from people who passed the CA Bar any real MBE question books like Kaplan Red Book. Barbri's fake MBEs are worthless.



The NCBE website has past MBE questions (with annotations)...kinda expensive though at $50 for just 100 questions. But guaranteed to be real MBE questions. Plus they have custom analytics that indicates your score compared to the national average.

BrokenMouse
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby BrokenMouse » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:27 pm

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Last edited by BrokenMouse on Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mushybrain
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby mushybrain » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:44 pm

The Strategies and Tactics Emanuel book has a bunch. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1454809922

I have a copy at home but I can't remember how much I wrote on it. I'll check later and see if it's worth giving away.

zenotheelder
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby zenotheelder » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:07 pm

Am I the only one that thought the actual MBE questions were very different from barbri's practice questions?

mushybrain
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby mushybrain » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:18 pm

No. They were much different, and they seemed different from the real ones I'd used from other sources as well. BarBri's are always different and intentionally made trickier, but I was surprised at how different the MBE felt from the real questions I used.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby BrokenMouse » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:21 pm

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Last edited by BrokenMouse on Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

waitingtoexhale
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby waitingtoexhale » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:24 pm

First time poster. Right after the bar I felt like I passed....time went on and by November I was sure I failed. Well I passed! Thank you robinhoodOO for the MBE spreadsheet! I was freaking out because I messed up my scantron and had to rebubble 20 answers. Plus the spreadsheet was spot on (I think). I scored a 140 on barbri's midterm and above a 150 on the real MBE.

For those who were not as lucky this is what I did: 12 hours of studying 6 days a week and 6 hours on Sunday, 100% of barbri, critical pass flashcards and the bar cheat code. I also reviewed every essay since 2001.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:40 pm

Readyfortheresults wrote:
a male human wrote:Does anyone (passer or not) want to donate their past failed essays? Scans or pictures are fine. You'll get to showcase your work to the world (for free, publicly), and it will help future students!


Hey malehuman, once my essays come in, I am happy to scan/ donate them for others so that this whole process can be easier. My first three essays (day one) felt magically solid. And I wasn't wrong about that when seeing the results. The others left something more to be desired. Day 1 was like an Ode to 1L classes. Day 3 was definitely a challenge.

And if any one can help interpret a Scaled MBE score (1245) would be forever grateful. Can't believe how low it was - i did so much practice. Sigh. It was never my strength - I always knew that.

Thank you!

As for your MBE, I'd first figure out your worst three subjects, then focus on those (while upkeeping the others) until they're no longer the worst subjects. When you do real practice questions, keep track of your score by subject and review every question and answer choice and explanations and make sure you understand the right answer regardless of whether you got it right or not. I'd only use fake questions to really drill down on a particular subject to try to understand and learn it, not as actual practice.

So it's not just the act of doing problems; it's how you review so as to not make the same conceptual mistake, to improve each subject systematically.

Someone mentioned the Emanuel MBE book, which I wholeheartedly recommend. I read and did the book cover to cover, and it was my main resource for the MBE my second time. I also got Vol. II, which I used for drilling down on problem areas. I did some Barbri questions for drilling purposes too (I sucked at crim pro apparently).

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a male human
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:46 pm

BrokenMouse wrote:Does anybody have any insight into this book: "Strategies & Tactics" by Emanuel released in 2012?

I need some real MBE questions and I think this book has several hundred questions. If anybody has any other real MBE books you can recommend, please let me know.

This is my favorite MBE book and mostly relied on this as I studied using the approach above

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a male human
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:46 pm

Yo 6 Timer, just a reminder to check your PMs.

6TimeFailure
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby 6TimeFailure » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:26 pm

a male human wrote:Yo 6 Timer, just a reminder to check your PMs.



Hi, yes I check my PMs regularly. Did you send me another? I got your 1st one and replied to it. Let me know, thanks.

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a male human
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:27 pm

6TimeFailure wrote:
a male human wrote:Yo 6 Timer, just a reminder to check your PMs.



Hi, yes I check my PMs regularly. Did you send me another? I got your 1st one and replied to it. Let me know, thanks.

My bad, it was another person with a similar name, sorry!

Notorious RBG
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby Notorious RBG » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:28 pm

BrokenMouse wrote:What book can I buy that has many MBE questions?


Try ebay or amazon. I recommend PMBR books- the questions were super hard for me in a way that forced me to learn minutia that I was really resistant to learn.

Other resources for repeaters:

One-timers bar calculator- gives you a rough idea of how to break down a passing score (I think they re-calibrate it based on the most recent bar scale):
https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/

Blog post comparing the bar to a shit-covered bear. This helped me properly contextualize the emotional element and pumped me up:
http://goatmilkblog.com/2008/05/25/waja ... ar-my-bth/




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