July 2015 California Bar Exam

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rcharter1978
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby rcharter1978 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:24 am

target wrote:I dreamed last night that I failed the test... :cry:


I dreamed I was a clown who couldn't juggle :) At least you woke up...I still can't juggle.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby petsoundspop » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:56 pm

Is anyone going back and forth between calmness and fear? Sometimes I feel that, while I definitely didn't ace the thing, I more than likely did well enough to pass. Other times I just focus on those damn 5th and 6th essay questions and that brutal PT-A and am convinced I need to mentally prepare for February. This is such a terrible wait.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby rcharter1978 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:11 pm

petsoundspop wrote:Is anyone going back and forth between calmness and fear? Sometimes I feel that, while I definitely didn't ace the thing, I more than likely did well enough to pass. Other times I just focus on those damn 5th and 6th essay questions and that brutal PT-A and am convinced I need to mentally prepare for February. This is such a terrible wait.



PT-A, and Essay 5 were absolute mind fucks :( Question 6 was also the worst. I always think mental preparation is best, but thats just me. However, from what I've heard everyone said that PT-A, essay 5 and 6 were the worst (especially question 5...where the hell did that come from???) and they can't fail everyone so....

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby Zaizei » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:11 pm

petsoundspop wrote:Is anyone going back and forth between calmness and fear? Sometimes I feel that, while I definitely didn't ace the thing, I more than likely did well enough to pass. Other times I just focus on those damn 5th and 6th essay questions and that brutal PT-A and am convinced I need to mentally prepare for February. This is such a terrible wait.


+1

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby petsoundspop » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:17 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:Is anyone going back and forth between calmness and fear? Sometimes I feel that, while I definitely didn't ace the thing, I more than likely did well enough to pass. Other times I just focus on those damn 5th and 6th essay questions and that brutal PT-A and am convinced I need to mentally prepare for February. This is such a terrible wait.



PT-A, and Essay 5 were absolute mind fucks :( Question 6 was also the worst. I always think mental preparation is best, but thats just me. However, from what I've heard everyone said that PT-A, essay 5 and 6 were the worst (especially question 5...where the hell did that come from???) and they can't fail everyone so....



That's good to know. I took and passed New York in 2011 and don't remember feeling this terrible during the wait. However, maybe I've just blocked out the memory. Trying to stay positive but can't go through this again.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:39 pm

target wrote:I dreamed last night that I failed the test... :cry:

The last time that happened to me it actually didn't happen :wink:

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby SpAcEmAn SpLiFF » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:07 pm

I'm just curious: what exactly happens with the grading approach when they test on something that less applicants will likely be familiar with? For example, the CP question was relatively straightforward, and I bet it's probably pretty easy for the graders to recognize a good answer from a bad one. However, there's always going to be a ton of people that either suck at corps or just aren't prepared for it, so I'm sure there's a huge range of different answers that the graders have to contend with. How do they approach something like this? Is there a "curve" of some sort for questions like this?

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:13 pm

SpAcEmAn SpLiFF wrote:I'm just curious: what exactly happens with the grading approach when they test on something that less applicants will likely be familiar with? For example, the CP question was relatively straightforward, and I bet it's probably pretty easy for the graders to recognize a good answer from a bad one. However, there's always going to be a ton of people that either suck at corps or just aren't prepared for it, so I'm sure there's a huge range of different answers that the graders have to contend with. How do they approach something like this? Is there a "curve" of some sort for questions like this?

Isn't this why there's a range of scores from 40 to 100?

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby rcharter1978 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:55 pm

petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:Is anyone going back and forth between calmness and fear? Sometimes I feel that, while I definitely didn't ace the thing, I more than likely did well enough to pass. Other times I just focus on those damn 5th and 6th essay questions and that brutal PT-A and am convinced I need to mentally prepare for February. This is such a terrible wait.



PT-A, and Essay 5 were absolute mind fucks :( Question 6 was also the worst. I always think mental preparation is best, but thats just me. However, from what I've heard everyone said that PT-A, essay 5 and 6 were the worst (especially question 5...where the hell did that come from???) and they can't fail everyone so....



That's good to know. I took and passed New York in 2011 and don't remember feeling this terrible during the wait. However, maybe I've just blocked out the memory. Trying to stay positive but can't go through this again.


To help with your positive outlook, I've heard people say repeatedly that you can straight fail 2 essays and still pass. And that sounds like your worse case scenario. And I'm not sure if you've practiced at all in NYC, but I would imagine there is a chance that if you had an idea of how to write/organize on PT-A, you at least aren't going to do as bad as me :) Trying to figure out how to organize PT-A was really where I fell down and I'm sure my answer is about as understandable as if I had written it in sanskrit.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby petsoundspop » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:41 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:Is anyone going back and forth between calmness and fear? Sometimes I feel that, while I definitely didn't ace the thing, I more than likely did well enough to pass. Other times I just focus on those damn 5th and 6th essay questions and that brutal PT-A and am convinced I need to mentally prepare for February. This is such a terrible wait.



PT-A, and Essay 5 were absolute mind fucks :( Question 6 was also the worst. I always think mental preparation is best, but thats just me. However, from what I've heard everyone said that PT-A, essay 5 and 6 were the worst (especially question 5...where the hell did that come from???) and they can't fail everyone so....



That's good to know. I took and passed New York in 2011 and don't remember feeling this terrible during the wait. However, maybe I've just blocked out the memory. Trying to stay positive but can't go through this again.


To help with your positive outlook, I've heard people say repeatedly that you can straight fail 2 essays and still pass. And that sounds like your worse case scenario. And I'm not sure if you've practiced at all in NYC, but I would imagine there is a chance that if you had an idea of how to write/organize on PT-A, you at least aren't going to do as bad as me :) Trying to figure out how to organize PT-A was really where I fell down and I'm sure my answer is about as understandable as if I had written it in sanskrit.


That is comforting. I'm not sure if I straight up failed either 5 or 6 there was just so much going on in 5 that I keep going over everything I missed (bad idea, I know). On those essays if I didn't know something I tried my best to structure it cleanly, recall the rule as best as I could, and do as substantive an analysis as possible. But it's just a very insecure and scary feeling when you've been studying for 10 weeks to open an essay question and automatically think, "What is the rule?"

I've been practicing in NYC for the past three years but most of my time was spent in administrative hearings so the writing aspect in general was rusty. I felt that they were hiding the ball like crazy in PT-A and honestly felt totally defeated after day one.

Also, my memory about New York is that the PTs were much more straightforward. On my exam it was like "Draft a will, here's the statute, here are the assets, here are the client's wishes" kind of thing. Again this could be hindsight bias but I definitely feel that California was leaps and bounds harder than New York. Oh well, nothing to do now but wait.

Compounding my anxiety is looking up CA pass rates and realizing that my previous perceptions were way wrong. They are much, much lower than I thought even for first time ABA takers.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby rcharter1978 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:26 pm

petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:Is anyone going back and forth between calmness and fear? Sometimes I feel that, while I definitely didn't ace the thing, I more than likely did well enough to pass. Other times I just focus on those damn 5th and 6th essay questions and that brutal PT-A and am convinced I need to mentally prepare for February. This is such a terrible wait.



PT-A, and Essay 5 were absolute mind fucks :( Question 6 was also the worst. I always think mental preparation is best, but thats just me. However, from what I've heard everyone said that PT-A, essay 5 and 6 were the worst (especially question 5...where the hell did that come from???) and they can't fail everyone so....



That's good to know. I took and passed New York in 2011 and don't remember feeling this terrible during the wait. However, maybe I've just blocked out the memory. Trying to stay positive but can't go through this again.


To help with your positive outlook, I've heard people say repeatedly that you can straight fail 2 essays and still pass. And that sounds like your worse case scenario. And I'm not sure if you've practiced at all in NYC, but I would imagine there is a chance that if you had an idea of how to write/organize on PT-A, you at least aren't going to do as bad as me :) Trying to figure out how to organize PT-A was really where I fell down and I'm sure my answer is about as understandable as if I had written it in sanskrit.


That is comforting. I'm not sure if I straight up failed either 5 or 6 there was just so much going on in 5 that I keep going over everything I missed (bad idea, I know). On those essays if I didn't know something I tried my best to structure it cleanly, recall the rule as best as I could, and do as substantive an analysis as possible. But it's just a very insecure and scary feeling when you've been studying for 10 weeks to open an essay question and automatically think, "What is the rule?"

I've been practicing in NYC for the past three years but most of my time was spent in administrative hearings so the writing aspect in general was rusty. I felt that they were hiding the ball like crazy in PT-A and honestly felt totally defeated after day one.

Also, my memory about New York is that the PTs were much more straightforward. On my exam it was like "Draft a will, here's the statute, here are the assets, here are the client's wishes" kind of thing. Again this could be hindsight bias but I definitely feel that California was leaps and bounds harder than New York. Oh well, nothing to do now but wait.

Compounding my anxiety is looking up CA pass rates and realizing that my previous perceptions were way wrong. They are much, much lower than I thought even for first time ABA takers.


Well, I don't think its an easy test, but when you think about it, there are a lot of ABA law schools in California. I'm sure the bottom 50% at Stanford, UCLA, USC and Berkley are still the smartest guys on the block, but the bottom 50% of the class at, lets say Whittier, may not exactly be the brain trust. If you're in the bottom 50% of a school that makes it a point to get everyone in and out, you may not even have a good base in substantive law when you leave school. A professor of in a summer program once said that studying for the bar exam is like getting your stuff out of public storage, all the knowledge may be in gross, dusty boxes but its there. He said he was more worried about the students who didn't have anything at all in their public storage unit. And that may be the situation for some students who are in the bottom 50%, even at ABA approved schools. And then of course, I'm sure CA ALSO attracts first time test takers from ABA schools that are out of state. So that may account for some of it as well.

Even in administrative hearings you would need to know how to structure an argument. And how to at least organize an argument well. And PT-A was just an asshole move, so I'm pretty sure A TON of people did much, much worse than you (I realize the "but everyone did worse" argument isn't the one you want, but I think its the most honest one).

My feeling was that day one, the PT was more difficult. Day two, the essays were more difficult. Felt a little like a ying and a yang. I mean PT-A was a mess, and question 5 was as much of a mess, just in an essay format and on a different day. Honestly, I'm sure someone wrote the model answer for question 5, but that person deserves a ABA medal of honor. I don't know how grading is, but I can't imagine many people were able to hit ALL of the issues in that question.

And you had that sweet, sweet middle day to rest and recharge, so I'm sure that put you in a pretty good mental position too.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby petsoundspop » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:38 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:Is anyone going back and forth between calmness and fear? Sometimes I feel that, while I definitely didn't ace the thing, I more than likely did well enough to pass. Other times I just focus on those damn 5th and 6th essay questions and that brutal PT-A and am convinced I need to mentally prepare for February. This is such a terrible wait.



PT-A, and Essay 5 were absolute mind fucks :( Question 6 was also the worst. I always think mental preparation is best, but thats just me. However, from what I've heard everyone said that PT-A, essay 5 and 6 were the worst (especially question 5...where the hell did that come from???) and they can't fail everyone so....



That's good to know. I took and passed New York in 2011 and don't remember feeling this terrible during the wait. However, maybe I've just blocked out the memory. Trying to stay positive but can't go through this again.


To help with your positive outlook, I've heard people say repeatedly that you can straight fail 2 essays and still pass. And that sounds like your worse case scenario. And I'm not sure if you've practiced at all in NYC, but I would imagine there is a chance that if you had an idea of how to write/organize on PT-A, you at least aren't going to do as bad as me :) Trying to figure out how to organize PT-A was really where I fell down and I'm sure my answer is about as understandable as if I had written it in sanskrit.


That is comforting. I'm not sure if I straight up failed either 5 or 6 there was just so much going on in 5 that I keep going over everything I missed (bad idea, I know). On those essays if I didn't know something I tried my best to structure it cleanly, recall the rule as best as I could, and do as substantive an analysis as possible. But it's just a very insecure and scary feeling when you've been studying for 10 weeks to open an essay question and automatically think, "What is the rule?"

I've been practicing in NYC for the past three years but most of my time was spent in administrative hearings so the writing aspect in general was rusty. I felt that they were hiding the ball like crazy in PT-A and honestly felt totally defeated after day one.

Also, my memory about New York is that the PTs were much more straightforward. On my exam it was like "Draft a will, here's the statute, here are the assets, here are the client's wishes" kind of thing. Again this could be hindsight bias but I definitely feel that California was leaps and bounds harder than New York. Oh well, nothing to do now but wait.

Compounding my anxiety is looking up CA pass rates and realizing that my previous perceptions were way wrong. They are much, much lower than I thought even for first time ABA takers.


Well, I don't think its an easy test, but when you think about it, there are a lot of ABA law schools in California. I'm sure the bottom 50% at Stanford, UCLA, USC and Berkley are still the smartest guys on the block, but the bottom 50% of the class at, lets say Whittier, may not exactly be the brain trust. If you're in the bottom 50% of a school that makes it a point to get everyone in and out, you may not even have a good base in substantive law when you leave school. A professor of in a summer program once said that studying for the bar exam is like getting your stuff out of public storage, all the knowledge may be in gross, dusty boxes but its there. He said he was more worried about the students who didn't have anything at all in their public storage unit. And that may be the situation for some students who are in the bottom 50%, even at ABA approved schools. And then of course, I'm sure CA ALSO attracts first time test takers from ABA schools that are out of state. So that may account for some of it as well.

Even in administrative hearings you would need to know how to structure an argument. And how to at least organize an argument well. And PT-A was just an asshole move, so I'm pretty sure A TON of people did much, much worse than you (I realize the "but everyone did worse" argument isn't the one you want, but I think its the most honest one).

My feeling was that day one, the PT was more difficult. Day two, the essays were more difficult. Felt a little like a ying and a yang. I mean PT-A was a mess, and question 5 was as much of a mess, just in an essay format and on a different day. Honestly, I'm sure someone wrote the model answer for question 5, but that person deserves a ABA medal of honor. I don't know how grading is, but I can't imagine many people were able to hit ALL of the issues in that question.

And you had that sweet, sweet middle day to rest and recharge, so I'm sure that put you in a pretty good mental position too.


I took all three days. I've only been admitted in NY for 3 years so I don't qualify for the Attorney's exam. But even if I did I would probably take the MBE since it has been my strong point, well at least on the New York Bar it was and those topics are fair game on the essays. Don't know about the MBE this time around though.

When I took New York the only people I know who failed the bar were those who didn't study. Everyone I know who put in a good faith, solid effort, passed. Just trying to keep that in mind during the wait.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby rcharter1978 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:50 pm

And you had that sweet, sweet middle day to rest and recharge, so I'm sure that put you in a pretty good mental position too.[/quote]

I took all three days. I've only been admitted in NY for 3 years so I don't qualify for the Attorney's exam. But even if I did I would probably take the MBE since it has been my strong point, well at least on the New York Bar it was and those topics are fair game on the essays. Don't know about the MBE this time around though.

When I took New York the only people I know who failed the bar were those who didn't study. Everyone I know who put in a good faith, solid effort, passed. Just trying to keep that in mind during the wait.[/quote]

If your biggest concerns are the two essays and the PT that everyone hated I feel like you probably were fine. Your point about taking the three days because of the weighting of the MBE's makes sense. A guy next to me took the attorney's exam, and he was saying that he needed to get a 70 on every essay to pass.

And hey -- worse case scenario you move back to NYC. It appears as though the next GOP candidate for president may be a fellow New Yorker!

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby petsoundspop » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:57 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:And you had that sweet, sweet middle day to rest and recharge, so I'm sure that put you in a pretty good mental position too.


I took all three days. I've only been admitted in NY for 3 years so I don't qualify for the Attorney's exam. But even if I did I would probably take the MBE since it has been my strong point, well at least on the New York Bar it was and those topics are fair game on the essays. Don't know about the MBE this time around though.

When I took New York the only people I know who failed the bar were those who didn't study. Everyone I know who put in a good faith, solid effort, passed. Just trying to keep that in mind during the wait.[/quote]

If your biggest concerns are the two essays and the PT that everyone hated I feel like you probably were fine. Your point about taking the three days because of the weighting of the MBE's makes sense. A guy next to me took the attorney's exam, and he was saying that he needed to get a 70 on every essay to pass.

And hey -- worse case scenario you move back to NYC. It appears as though the next GOP candidate for president may be a fellow New Yorker![/quote]

A 70 on every essay? I would totally crack under that kind of pressure. I know at this point there is nothing we can do about it but I keep thinking about it all the time. Also, I think there is a major tendency at least for me to focus on what I missed or got wrong and not even realize how much we got right. But I have recently discovered "Breaking Bad" and this is helping a ton. Always a bright side!

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby rcharter1978 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:08 pm

petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:And you had that sweet, sweet middle day to rest and recharge, so I'm sure that put you in a pretty good mental position too.


I took all three days. I've only been admitted in NY for 3 years so I don't qualify for the Attorney's exam. But even if I did I would probably take the MBE since it has been my strong point, well at least on the New York Bar it was and those topics are fair game on the essays. Don't know about the MBE this time around though.

When I took New York the only people I know who failed the bar were those who didn't study. Everyone I know who put in a good faith, solid effort, passed. Just trying to keep that in mind during the wait.


If your biggest concerns are the two essays and the PT that everyone hated I feel like you probably were fine. Your point about taking the three days because of the weighting of the MBE's makes sense. A guy next to me took the attorney's exam, and he was saying that he needed to get a 70 on every essay to pass.

And hey -- worse case scenario you move back to NYC. It appears as though the next GOP candidate for president may be a fellow New Yorker![/quote]

A 70 on every essay? I would totally crack under that kind of pressure. I know at this point there is nothing we can do about it but I keep thinking about it all the time. Also, I think there is a major tendency at least for me to focus on what I missed or got wrong and not even realize how much we got right. But I have recently discovered "Breaking Bad" and this is helping a ton. Always a bright side![/quote]

Ha ha, immerse yourself in Netflix my friend.....let all the binge watching wash over you. I feel like they have almost every episode of MadMen, and Breaking Bad as well as House of Cards (may be too soon). They even have such light and pithy comedies as Bob's Burger, 30 Rock and UnBreakable.

Yeah, he said 70 on every essay and he was freaked the fuck out after day 1. He calmed down at day 3....but still.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby kjartan » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:43 pm

petsoundspop wrote:Is anyone going back and forth between calmness and fear? Sometimes I feel that, while I definitely didn't ace the thing, I more than likely did well enough to pass. Other times I just focus on those damn 5th and 6th essay questions and that brutal PT-A and am convinced I need to mentally prepare for February. This is such a terrible wait.

I was OK at first, but now I'm convinced I failed... and waiting is fucking agony. :cry: :cry: :cry:

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby BrokenMouse » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:06 am

lol
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby BarZombie » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:10 am

For the written portion everyone seems similarly situated with feelings of uncertainty...the exam was designed to do this...

The only good thing is the MBE curve will be liberal and will probably lower the passing essay score needed.

I am a re-taker and sat for CA this February...my MBE was comfortably above the national average in February...and this is with Civ Pro being tested the first time.

This July was nothing like February...the MBE questions were rewritten and legal arguments could be made for the two answers you could dial it down to...the Civ Pro questions as well and many others were a deliberate F.U.

...nothing like February where you knew the answer if you studied...and I did about 2000 Qs...however, this July felt like I wasted my time with the MBE prep...it sucked...especially since the CA essays were straight forward compared to February...this is a real rub...

On a positive note...the last time NCBE tinkered with the MBE was in July 2013 when they started to rewrite the test questions. Given CA scales its exam to the MBE this may be a good thing...the July 2013 the passing essay score was 59 with a mediocre MBE score...so hope for a repeat performance...the pass rate was rather high then.

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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby gaagoots » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:41 pm

.
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby SpAcEmAn SpLiFF » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:24 pm

petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:Is anyone going back and forth between calmness and fear? Sometimes I feel that, while I definitely didn't ace the thing, I more than likely did well enough to pass. Other times I just focus on those damn 5th and 6th essay questions and that brutal PT-A and am convinced I need to mentally prepare for February. This is such a terrible wait.



PT-A, and Essay 5 were absolute mind fucks :( Question 6 was also the worst. I always think mental preparation is best, but thats just me. However, from what I've heard everyone said that PT-A, essay 5 and 6 were the worst (especially question 5...where the hell did that come from???) and they can't fail everyone so....



That's good to know. I took and passed New York in 2011 and don't remember feeling this terrible during the wait. However, maybe I've just blocked out the memory. Trying to stay positive but can't go through this again.


To help with your positive outlook, I've heard people say repeatedly that you can straight fail 2 essays and still pass. And that sounds like your worse case scenario. And I'm not sure if you've practiced at all in NYC, but I would imagine there is a chance that if you had an idea of how to write/organize on PT-A, you at least aren't going to do as bad as me :) Trying to figure out how to organize PT-A was really where I fell down and I'm sure my answer is about as understandable as if I had written it in sanskrit.


That is comforting. I'm not sure if I straight up failed either 5 or 6 there was just so much going on in 5 that I keep going over everything I missed (bad idea, I know). On those essays if I didn't know something I tried my best to structure it cleanly, recall the rule as best as I could, and do as substantive an analysis as possible. But it's just a very insecure and scary feeling when you've been studying for 10 weeks to open an essay question and automatically think, "What is the rule?"

I've been practicing in NYC for the past three years but most of my time was spent in administrative hearings so the writing aspect in general was rusty. I felt that they were hiding the ball like crazy in PT-A and honestly felt totally defeated after day one.

Also, my memory about New York is that the PTs were much more straightforward. On my exam it was like "Draft a will, here's the statute, here are the assets, here are the client's wishes" kind of thing. Again this could be hindsight bias but I definitely feel that California was leaps and bounds harder than New York. Oh well, nothing to do now but wait.

Compounding my anxiety is looking up CA pass rates and realizing that my previous perceptions were way wrong. They are much, much lower than I thought even for first time ABA takers.


Well, I don't think its an easy test, but when you think about it, there are a lot of ABA law schools in California. I'm sure the bottom 50% at Stanford, UCLA, USC and Berkley are still the smartest guys on the block, but the bottom 50% of the class at, lets say Whittier, may not exactly be the brain trust. If you're in the bottom 50% of a school that makes it a point to get everyone in and out, you may not even have a good base in substantive law when you leave school. A professor of in a summer program once said that studying for the bar exam is like getting your stuff out of public storage, all the knowledge may be in gross, dusty boxes but its there. He said he was more worried about the students who didn't have anything at all in their public storage unit. And that may be the situation for some students who are in the bottom 50%, even at ABA approved schools. And then of course, I'm sure CA ALSO attracts first time test takers from ABA schools that are out of state. So that may account for some of it as well.

Even in administrative hearings you would need to know how to structure an argument. And how to at least organize an argument well. And PT-A was just an asshole move, so I'm pretty sure A TON of people did much, much worse than you (I realize the "but everyone did worse" argument isn't the one you want, but I think its the most honest one).

My feeling was that day one, the PT was more difficult. Day two, the essays were more difficult. Felt a little like a ying and a yang. I mean PT-A was a mess, and question 5 was as much of a mess, just in an essay format and on a different day. Honestly, I'm sure someone wrote the model answer for question 5, but that person deserves a ABA medal of honor. I don't know how grading is, but I can't imagine many people were able to hit ALL of the issues in that question.

And you had that sweet, sweet middle day to rest and recharge, so I'm sure that put you in a pretty good mental position too.


I took all three days. I've only been admitted in NY for 3 years so I don't qualify for the Attorney's exam. But even if I did I would probably take the MBE since it has been my strong point, well at least on the New York Bar it was and those topics are fair game on the essays. Don't know about the MBE this time around though.

When I took New York the only people I know who failed the bar were those who didn't study. Everyone I know who put in a good faith, solid effort, passed. Just trying to keep that in mind during the wait.

What year did you take the NY bar? I took it in 2012 and for some reason, I don't even remember there being a PT on the test lol

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petsoundspop
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby petsoundspop » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:34 pm

[/quote]
What year did you take the NY bar? I took it in 2012 and for some reason, I don't even remember there being a PT on the test lol[/quote]

July 2011. Just looked it up, the PT was some sort of ethics question of first impression. I remember it being a lot easier than anything in California. That PT-A will haunt my dreams. Lots of people told me not to focus on PTs but I made sure to do at least 3 timed full ones and was very put off by PT-A.

Element795
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby Element795 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:37 am

Coming from someone who has been here and done this before, truth is there is no answer. The exam is a straight nightmare. Question #5 I have no idea what the issues or answer might be (take that as a positive). I received a 80 on a question and on re-review a 70 (avg. 75), which is 10 important points. I have recieved a 65 and on re-review a 75 (avg. 70), how two graders can have such a discrepency I. DO. NOT. KNOW. I have thought I nailed a question and gotten a 55 and vice versa. I always laughed at the comments from those who took the exam before me and said it was "half what you know and half your grader," and though I still don't believe it entirely after receiving passing scores from one grader opposed to another I am inclined to believe it. You are at there mercy.

As for the MBE. Ignore it. No one knows. The PT - Know how to format, be logical, explain the situation as you would any other in your everyday life.

I have taken the bar exam before and have completed every BARBRI (waste of money) bar essay in the process. So for those who are new to this, I was a master Q#5. I studied it to death, even got to a point where it wasn't even that hard and pretty simple in actuality. With that said, Q#5 "IMO" was the single hardest question I have seen. Personally, I feel confident because of my knowledge of the subject but the open-ended nature of it and lack of direction was an example of the "bullcrap" that the CA Bar exam pulls on its examinees that I don't believe other states would.

Question #6 is another that I noticed people complain of. Again, people call the CA bar exam "a test of minimum competence." To that person I ask what is "minimally competent about a "out-dated" aspect of "XXX-law?" With that said, before someone retaliates with a comment about how "maybe I should have studied "T@%!&@%," I do say I studied and diagramed that "stuff" 1, 2, 3x within the week because of the off chance that something "so dumb" might actually be tested. Therefore, I did well, still think it was ridiculous. Point is unless you made the legit effort, "who studied Q#6!?!?!?"

Am I bitter? I am bitter, let that be known. It is hard as you can imagine getting over the fact that grader A thinks your answer is "X" while grader B thinks your answer is "Y." There is a subjective element to it which I believe is unfair. There is no doubt in my mind that someone passed that as a "whole" did not as well as I did because grader "A" gave me a score of "X" while grader "B" gave me a score of "Y." In addition, I only care to express my annoyance with the fact that irregardless of the aforementioned, the "CA" bar examiners choose to isolate the passers from the non-passers in what "I believe" to be a unfair process (totally distinguished from the rest of the country) in which they call the exam a test of "minimum competence" but yet test on 18+ subjects, also Q#5 (with zero direction), and also Q#6 (especially A, but overall also dumb).

My whole point is I am just trying to sympathize on as many levels as possible. While I feel confident in myself in certain aspects of the exam as I am sure others also feel, I equally feel as unconfident. "Take-away" from the experience is I am still bitter at the lack of consistency and unfairness (thats my bitterness) but MOSTLY at the bullshit that many are calling the 2015 JULY CA Bar Exam the hardest in recent memory.

P.S. You already own the LOWEST BAR EXAM PASS RATE IN THE COUNTRY (and are way behind the times). 2017 can't come soon enough CA.

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a male human
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:24 pm

Element795 wrote:Coming from someone who has been here and done this before, truth is there is no answer. The exam is a straight nightmare. Question #5 I have no idea what the issues or answer might be (take that as a positive). I received a 80 on a question and on re-review a 70 (avg. 75), which is 10 important points. I have recieved a 65 and on re-review a 75 (avg. 70), how two graders can have such a discrepency I. DO. NOT. KNOW. I have thought I nailed a question and gotten a 55 and vice versa. I always laughed at the comments from those who took the exam before me and said it was "half what you know and half your grader," and though I still don't believe it entirely after receiving passing scores from one grader opposed to another I am inclined to believe it. You are at there mercy.

As for the MBE. Ignore it. No one knows. The PT - Know how to format, be logical, explain the situation as you would any other in your everyday life.

I have taken the bar exam before and have completed every BARBRI (waste of money) bar essay in the process. So for those who are new to this, I was a master Q#5. I studied it to death, even got to a point where it wasn't even that hard and pretty simple in actuality. With that said, Q#5 "IMO" was the single hardest question I have seen. Personally, I feel confident because of my knowledge of the subject but the open-ended nature of it and lack of direction was an example of the "bullcrap" that the CA Bar exam pulls on its examinees that I don't believe other states would.

Question #6 is another that I noticed people complain of. Again, people call the CA bar exam "a test of minimum competence." To that person I ask what is "minimally competent about a "out-dated" aspect of "XXX-law?" With that said, before someone retaliates with a comment about how "maybe I should have studied "T@%!&@%," I do say I studied and diagramed that "stuff" 1, 2, 3x within the week because of the off chance that something "so dumb" might actually be tested. Therefore, I did well, still think it was ridiculous. Point is unless you made the legit effort, "who studied Q#6!?!?!?"

Am I bitter? I am bitter, let that be known. It is hard as you can imagine getting over the fact that grader A thinks your answer is "X" while grader B thinks your answer is "Y." There is a subjective element to it which I believe is unfair. There is no doubt in my mind that someone passed that as a "whole" did not as well as I did because grader "A" gave me a score of "X" while grader "B" gave me a score of "Y." In addition, I only care to express my annoyance with the fact that irregardless of the aforementioned, the "CA" bar examiners choose to isolate the passers from the non-passers in what "I believe" to be a unfair process (totally distinguished from the rest of the country) in which they call the exam a test of "minimum competence" but yet test on 18+ subjects, also Q#5 (with zero direction), and also Q#6 (especially A, but overall also dumb).

My whole point is I am just trying to sympathize on as many levels as possible. While I feel confident in myself in certain aspects of the exam as I am sure others also feel, I equally feel as unconfident. "Take-away" from the experience is I am still bitter at the lack of consistency and unfairness (thats my bitterness) but MOSTLY at the bullshit that many are calling the 2015 JULY CA Bar Exam the hardest in recent memory.

P.S. You already own the LOWEST BAR EXAM PASS RATE IN THE COUNTRY (and are way behind the times). 2017 can't come soon enough CA.

Yes, yes! Let the bitterness flow through you.

I can empathize with everything you said. That's why one must stack the odds in his favor as much as possible to beat this black box and crapshoot. For example, making it easy on the grader, killing the PTs, do not predict subjects, etc. Unfortunately, it may come to them too late...when they repeat the exam. If you look back, February bar topics on TLS are particularly illuminating for this reason.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:45 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:And you had that sweet, sweet middle day to rest and recharge, so I'm sure that put you in a pretty good mental position too.


I took all three days. I've only been admitted in NY for 3 years so I don't qualify for the Attorney's exam. But even if I did I would probably take the MBE since it has been my strong point, well at least on the New York Bar it was and those topics are fair game on the essays. Don't know about the MBE this time around though.

When I took New York the only people I know who failed the bar were those who didn't study. Everyone I know who put in a good faith, solid effort, passed. Just trying to keep that in mind during the wait.


If your biggest concerns are the two essays and the PT that everyone hated I feel like you probably were fine. Your point about taking the three days because of the weighting of the MBE's makes sense. A guy next to me took the attorney's exam, and he was saying that he needed to get a 70 on every essay to pass.

And hey -- worse case scenario you move back to NYC. It appears as though the next GOP candidate for president may be a fellow New Yorker!


A 70 on every essay? I would totally crack under that kind of pressure. I know at this point there is nothing we can do about it but I keep thinking about it all the time. Also, I think there is a major tendency at least for me to focus on what I missed or got wrong and not even realize how much we got right. But I have recently discovered "Breaking Bad" and this is helping a ton. Always a bright side![/quote]

Ha ha, immerse yourself in Netflix my friend.....let all the binge watching wash over you. I feel like they have almost every episode of MadMen, and Breaking Bad as well as House of Cards (may be too soon). They even have such light and pithy comedies as Bob's Burger, 30 Rock and UnBreakable.

Yeah, he said 70 on every essay and he was freaked the fuck out after day 1. He calmed down at day 3....but still.[/quote]


Funny you should suggest this: The night after the CBX I started re-watching Breaking Bad on Netflix. I'm quarter way through Season 2 right now :)

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petsoundspop
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Re: July 2015 California Bar Exam

Postby petsoundspop » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:50 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:And you had that sweet, sweet middle day to rest and recharge, so I'm sure that put you in a pretty good mental position too.


I took all three days. I've only been admitted in NY for 3 years so I don't qualify for the Attorney's exam. But even if I did I would probably take the MBE since it has been my strong point, well at least on the New York Bar it was and those topics are fair game on the essays. Don't know about the MBE this time around though.

When I took New York the only people I know who failed the bar were those who didn't study. Everyone I know who put in a good faith, solid effort, passed. Just trying to keep that in mind during the wait.


If your biggest concerns are the two essays and the PT that everyone hated I feel like you probably were fine. Your point about taking the three days because of the weighting of the MBE's makes sense. A guy next to me took the attorney's exam, and he was saying that he needed to get a 70 on every essay to pass.

And hey -- worse case scenario you move back to NYC. It appears as though the next GOP candidate for president may be a fellow New Yorker!


A 70 on every essay? I would totally crack under that kind of pressure. I know at this point there is nothing we can do about it but I keep thinking about it all the time. Also, I think there is a major tendency at least for me to focus on what I missed or got wrong and not even realize how much we got right. But I have recently discovered "Breaking Bad" and this is helping a ton. Always a bright side!


Ha ha, immerse yourself in Netflix my friend.....let all the binge watching wash over you. I feel like they have almost every episode of MadMen, and Breaking Bad as well as House of Cards (may be too soon). They even have such light and pithy comedies as Bob's Burger, 30 Rock and UnBreakable.

Yeah, he said 70 on every essay and he was freaked the fuck out after day 1. He calmed down at day 3....but still.[/quote]


Funny you should suggest this: The night after the CBX I started re-watching Breaking Bad on Netflix. I'm quarter way through Season 2 right now :)[/quote]

I seriously don't know how I never watched Breaking Bad before. It's amazing and is getting me through the long, agonizing wait to November 20th at 6PM.




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