I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

redblueyellow
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 pm

I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby redblueyellow » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:30 am

WTF, guys. I spent all this time learning and memorizing, but when it comes to actually putting something down on paper, unless if I have the information literally verbatim memorized, I can't seem to get everything that I know down on paper. It's not even so much that I can't remember everything I needed to write--OK, fine, that too, but I can't take the information from my brain onto the paper accurately.

I am getting really tired of this shit. If I see a sample essay, I can get myself to remember the rules, issues, and formatting really well if I just get a peek at what it should be like (or what the content should include).

If I don't get that, I just flounder around and write stuff down haphazardly.

Case in point, I was doing a Civ Pro essay, and for minimum contacts, I remembered that you need purposeful availment, but could not remember the other element of foreseeability. Naturally, I did not remember the fancy sentence of "traditional notions of fair play and substantial justice."

This is really frustrating and it feels like no matter what or how much I do, I can't use the information I have because I can't get it out of me to put down on paper.

EDIT: There's a fucking third element that I forgot. Fairness. Goddamit.

gaagoots
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:01 am

Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby gaagoots » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:30 am

redblueyellow wrote:WTF, guys. I spent all this time learning and memorizing, but when it comes to actually putting something down on paper, unless if I have the information literally verbatim memorized, I can't seem to get everything that I know down on paper. It's not even so much that I can't remember everything I needed to write--OK, fine, that too, but I can't take the information from my brain onto the paper accurately.

I am getting really tired of this shit. If I see a sample essay, I can get myself to remember the rules, issues, and formatting really well if I just get a peek at what it should be like (or what the content should include).

If I don't get that, I just flounder around and write stuff down haphazardly.

Case in point, I was doing a Civ Pro essay, and for minimum contacts, I remembered that you need purposeful availment, but could not remember the other element of foreseeability. Naturally, I did not remember the fancy sentence of "traditional notions of fair play and substantial justice."

This is really frustrating and it feels like no matter what or how much I do, I can't use the information I have because I can't get it out of me to put down on paper.

EDIT: There's a fucking third element that I forgot. Fairness. Goddamit.


Get it down to mnemonics.

my parents frequently forgot to read me childrens stories.

Min contacts, purposeful availment, foreseeability, fairness, relatedness, convenience and states interest.

I use MILF for DCC

Market participant
Important non-economic interest
Less discriminatory alternatives available
Federal govt approval.

I can remember this mnemonics and I can get some of the important head notes

redblueyellow
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby redblueyellow » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:46 am

gaagoots wrote:Get it down to mnemonics.

my parents frequently forgot to read me childrens stories.

Min contacts, purposeful availment, foreseeability, fairness, relatedness, convenience and states interest.

I use MILF for DCC

Market participant
Important non-economic interest
Less discriminatory alternatives available
Federal govt approval.

I can remember this mnemonics and I can get some of the important head notes


Doing mnemonics as well, but now I need to make sure that I can attach them to the proper issue I was referencing, lol.

Tenancy at will - termination: WALT D
Tenant Duties to Landlord: Wasted Ryu Rejects Inexpensive Lawyers
Landlord Tort Liability: SCALP
Termination of Easements: END RAMP
Warrant Exceptions: SPACES
Insane Delusion elements (Wills): F NBC
Capacity (Wills): TNN
Valid Trusts: BTRIPS
Support Trust elements: MESH
Equitable Servitude elements: TWIN
Equitable Servitude defenses: U LEAP

and then the usual WITHV N, WITV, My Parents... (the one you mentioned), BARRK, and I think that's all I can think of at the moment

I like your DCC one, lol

So those would get me probably the larger issues, I suppose (some of them aren't even large issues), but how do I then attack the nitty gritty, or the order of what shows up on paper if I can't visualize it, or if I can't recall that you always want to mention 10th Amendment/Comandeering with a DCC question, for instance.

And most of those won't even help me on the MBE for the nuanced rules, sadly. How many mnemonics have you got down?

gaagoots
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:01 am

Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby gaagoots » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:55 am

redblueyellow wrote:
gaagoots wrote:Get it down to mnemonics.

my parents frequently forgot to read me childrens stories.

Min contacts, purposeful availment, foreseeability, fairness, relatedness, convenience and states interest.

I use MILF for DCC

Market participant
Important non-economic interest
Less discriminatory alternatives available
Federal govt approval.

I can remember this mnemonics and I can get some of the important head notes


Doing mnemonics as well, but now I need to make sure that I can attach them to the proper issue I was referencing, lol.

Tenancy at will - termination: WALT D
Tenant Duties to Landlord: Wasted Ryu Rejects Inexpensive Lawyers
Landlord Tort Liability: SCALP
Termination of Easements: END RAMP
Warrant Exceptions: SPACES
Insane Delusion elements (Wills): F NBC
Capacity (Wills): TNN
Valid Trusts: BTRIPS
Support Trust elements: MESH
Equitable Servitude elements: TWIN
Equitable Servitude defenses: U LEAP

and then the usual WITHV N, WITV, My Parents... (the one you mentioned), BARRK, and I think that's all I can think of at the moment

I like your DCC one, lol

So those would get me probably the larger issues, I suppose (some of them aren't even large issues), but how do I then attack the nitty gritty, or the order of what shows up on paper if I can't visualize it, or if I can't recall that you always want to mention 10th Amendment/Comandeering with a DCC question, for instance.

And most of those won't even help me on the MBE for the nuanced rules, sadly. How many mnemonics have you got down?


I have so many that make only sense to me. I like a lot of the mnemonics in Lean Sheets, especially the crying Elvis one. Also SING for constructive eviction.

When I don't get something I take my iPhone record myself giving a rule statement and play it back over and over until I get it.

redblueyellow
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby redblueyellow » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:00 am

gaagoots wrote:I have so many that make only sense to me. I like a lot of the mnemonics in Lean Sheets, especially the crying Elvis one. Also SING for constructive eviction.

When I don't get something I take my iPhone record myself giving a rule statement and play it back over and over until I get it.


Hmm, interesting. If you're not memorizing *that* many, does that mean that you have the rest down completely without mnemonics?

I'm thinking that is obviously something just super unique to me with this problem, especially after considering some other posters that have also commented on their inability to remember.

Good idea on the iPhone. I've been orally saying the rules out loud, and it sticks for a bit, but gone after a couple days max.

YibanRen
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:25 am

Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby YibanRen » Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:37 am

redblueyellow wrote:
gaagoots wrote:I have so many that make only sense to me. I like a lot of the mnemonics in Lean Sheets, especially the crying Elvis one. Also SING for constructive eviction.

When I don't get something I take my iPhone record myself giving a rule statement and play it back over and over until I get it.


Hmm, interesting. If you're not memorizing *that* many, does that mean that you have the rest down completely without mnemonics?

I'm thinking that is obviously something just super unique to me with this problem, especially after considering some other posters that have also commented on their inability to remember.

Good idea on the iPhone. I've been orally saying the rules out loud, and it sticks for a bit, but gone after a couple days max.


I don't have the law down, I have key words down. For example, with the Fruit of the Poisonous Addition to the Exlusionary Rule I remember the word "Derived" because the rest of the words can kind of be made up by me in that case if I know the idea. For example, if an essay comes up with an illegal search and the exclusionary rule, I'll state the rule as "the illegal search, and also the evidence derived or obtained from the illegality." I just made all of that up mostly besides the key word. The word itself probably unlocked a few other words, like "obtained" and evidence.

I also make up mnemonics if there are a bunch of key words in a chain. For example, if I want to remember the entire preemption doctrine from conlaw, I just remember E I E I O (like Old McDonald)
Express, Implied (Exclusive (laws mutually), Impedes the federal objective, Occupying the Field).

I also sometimes memorize whole lists this way. For example, COPS CHASE IT. To remember that the exceptions to the Warrant Requirement are:

C
Ommunity Caretaker
Plain View
Schools (Public)

Consent
Hot Persuit
Automobile
Search Incident to a Lawful Arrest
Evanescent Evidence

Inventory
Terry Stop

cndounda1985
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Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby cndounda1985 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:00 am

Just take a deep breath, it's going to be ok. I think try to do what my tutor says are blank sheet exercises. So before each subject you review, try to write down everything you can remember about the subject. Keep repeating it until you get all of the elements right. Supposedly if you can write it down, then it's not only in your brain, but in your kinistetic memory (however you spell it). The best way to try and memorize anything, is to review the rule and then immediately try to recall it. Basically maybe do practice exams which tests the rules of law you just memorized. By seeing the issue it should trigger your short term memory.

I know it's hard, I'm struggling too but you know more then you think, we all do. Stay confident.

redblueyellow
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby redblueyellow » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:35 pm

YibanRen wrote:I don't have the law down, I have key words down. For example, with the Fruit of the Poisonous Addition to the Exlusionary Rule I remember the word "Derived" because the rest of the words can kind of be made up by me in that case if I know the idea. For example, if an essay comes up with an illegal search and the exclusionary rule, I'll state the rule as "the illegal search, and also the evidence derived or obtained from the illegality." I just made all of that up mostly besides the key word. The word itself probably unlocked a few other words, like "obtained" and evidence.

I also make up mnemonics if there are a bunch of key words in a chain. For example, if I want to remember the entire preemption doctrine from conlaw, I just remember E I E I O (like Old McDonald)
Express, Implied (Exclusive (laws mutually), Impedes the federal objective, Occupying the Field).

I also sometimes memorize whole lists this way. For example, COPS CHASE IT. To remember that the exceptions to the Warrant Requirement are:

C
Ommunity Caretaker
Plain View
Schools (Public)

Consent
Hot Persuit
Automobile
Search Incident to a Lawful Arrest
Evanescent Evidence

Inventory
Terry Stop


Well, I feel a little better about that, thanks. I'm just worried that on the test, especially if it's an MBE question and I see something like "Correct, because of Interpleader (Rule 22)" or "Correct, because of Interpleader (statutory)" that I remember what an Interpleader is and not confuse it with something else, and then remember the differences between Rule 22 and the statutory version (which I currently do not).

On an essay, I suppose one could BS it enough to where it somewhat resembles the official rule, but no idea how to approach on an MBE.

The sad thing is that if you asked me this a week ago when I did a lot of Civ Pro, I could tell you exactly. Not so much after the fact.

redblueyellow
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Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby redblueyellow » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:36 pm

cndounda1985 wrote:Just take a deep breath, it's going to be ok. I think try to do what my tutor says are blank sheet exercises. So before each subject you review, try to write down everything you can remember about the subject. Keep repeating it until you get all of the elements right. Supposedly if you can write it down, then it's not only in your brain, but in your kinistetic memory (however you spell it). The best way to try and memorize anything, is to review the rule and then immediately try to recall it. Basically maybe do practice exams which tests the rules of law you just memorized. By seeing the issue it should trigger your short term memory.

I know it's hard, I'm struggling too but you know more then you think, we all do. Stay confident.


I have tried this technique!! Read it on a blog somewhere a while back, but it does get depressing after you see complete issues missed or most/all of them only 25-50% completed, lol.

I do the recall thing MANY times after I write it down and it works for the day, but gets lost soon after. What do you guys do about that? If I go back and study all of them, I can never move forward :/

arizzle
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Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby arizzle » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:00 pm

I have the worst memory of anyone you'll ever meet.

This is particularly burdensome for the essay portion of the exam. I am very good at spotting most of the issues, but fail miserably when I have to write out the elements of 50 different rules, theories, exceptions, etc.

So how do I cope with this?

Well, for the essays I focus on what I do well, issue spot. You will get some points for just spotting what is an issue and what isn't. For everything else, just get out what you DO know. If you know the rule, but don't remember the specific phrasing of the elements, try to articulate it in your own words as closely as possible. This won't get you maximum points, but it's better than nothing.

The other part of my strategy is to slay the MBE. I am much better with the MBE because a)you are prompted about what the answer might be, and b) there are always a few questions that even you don't know the right answer, you know all the rest are the wrong answer. So you can some gain some points simply by the mechanics of a multiple choice test.

This strategy works much better for other jurisdictions where the MBE is more heavily weighted, but it is what it is.

redblueyellow
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby redblueyellow » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:26 pm

arizzle wrote:I have the worst memory of anyone you'll ever meet.

This is particularly burdensome for the essay portion of the exam. I am very good at spotting most of the issues, but fail miserably when I have to write out the elements of 50 different rules, theories, exceptions, etc.

So how do I cope with this?

Well, for the essays I focus on what I do well, issue spot. You will get some points for just spotting what is an issue and what isn't. For everything else, just get out what you DO know. If you know the rule, but don't remember the specific phrasing of the elements, try to articulate it in your own words as closely as possible. This won't get you maximum points, but it's better than nothing.

The other part of my strategy is to slay the MBE. I am much better with the MBE because a)you are prompted about what the answer might be, and b) there are always a few questions that even you don't know the right answer, you know all the rest are the wrong answer. So you can some gain some points simply by the mechanics of a multiple choice test.

This strategy works much better for other jurisdictions where the MBE is more heavily weighted, but it is what it is.


Gah, sorry you have to deal with the memory issue as well. It just sucks that we're being tested on this stuff in a closed book environment when practice is literally open book/world.

I wish it was like a law school exam; make the question as tough as you want, but allow a non-commercial outline. Most of the time, the questions were difficult/long enough to where if you spent time *reading* the outline, you would fail the test because of time constraints, but a quick glance to confirm would be sufficient.

MBE is 35% in CA, so not proportionally a lot, but definitely not insignificant. Unfortunately, at least for me, I can't do well in the MBE if I don't have the nuance/subelements down (or at least, that's what I've noticed from NCBE questions/Kaplan) so while I can get it down to 1-3 choices most of the time easily, then I get stuck.

Such is life. :(

TxBarTaker09
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Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby TxBarTaker09 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:52 pm

Image

User avatar
northwood
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Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby northwood » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:26 pm

arizzle wrote:I have the worst memory of anyone you'll ever meet.

This is particularly burdensome for the essay portion of the exam. I am very good at spotting most of the issues, but fail miserably when I have to write out the elements of 50 different rules, theories, exceptions, etc.

So how do I cope with this?

Well, for the essays I focus on what I do well, issue spot. You will get some points for just spotting what is an issue and what isn't. For everything else, just get out what you DO know. If you know the rule, but don't remember the specific phrasing of the elements, try to articulate it in your own words as closely as possible. This won't get you maximum points, but it's better than nothing.

The other part of my strategy is to slay the MBE. I am much better with the MBE because a)you are prompted about what the answer might be, and b) there are always a few questions that even you don't know the right answer, you know all the rest are the wrong answer. So you can some gain some points simply by the mechanics of a multiple choice test.

This strategy works much better for other jurisdictions where the MBE is more heavily weighted, but it is what it is.



what i found to be helpful back in July was once I spotted the issue, I looked at the facts to help me remember what part of the rule/ element was being tested- and made sure my rule statement addressed the fact in some way so I could apply the facts to my rule. it may not have given me all the points, but it sure did make me appear to know more of what I was talking about than if I just totally winged it

redblueyellow
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Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby redblueyellow » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:53 pm

northwood wrote:what i found to be helpful back in July was once I spotted the issue, I looked at the facts to help me remember what part of the rule/ element was being tested- and made sure my rule statement addressed the fact in some way so I could apply the facts to my rule. it may not have given me all the points, but it sure did make me appear to know more of what I was talking about than if I just totally winged it


This is a good idea. If it "sounds right," it must be right! I can definitely fabricate rule statements by matching it up to facts!

redblueyellow
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Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby redblueyellow » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:53 pm

TxBarTaker09 wrote:Image


LOL. ARE YOU ME?!

YibanRen
Posts: 90
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Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby YibanRen » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:05 am

redblueyellow wrote:
arizzle wrote:I have the worst memory of anyone you'll ever meet.

This is particularly burdensome for the essay portion of the exam. I am very good at spotting most of the issues, but fail miserably when I have to write out the elements of 50 different rules, theories, exceptions, etc.

So how do I cope with this?

Well, for the essays I focus on what I do well, issue spot. You will get some points for just spotting what is an issue and what isn't. For everything else, just get out what you DO know. If you know the rule, but don't remember the specific phrasing of the elements, try to articulate it in your own words as closely as possible. This won't get you maximum points, but it's better than nothing.

The other part of my strategy is to slay the MBE. I am much better with the MBE because a)you are prompted about what the answer might be, and b) there are always a few questions that even you don't know the right answer, you know all the rest are the wrong answer. So you can some gain some points simply by the mechanics of a multiple choice test.

This strategy works much better for other jurisdictions where the MBE is more heavily weighted, but it is what it is.


Gah, sorry you have to deal with the memory issue as well. It just sucks that we're being tested on this stuff in a closed book environment when practice is literally open book/world.

I wish it was like a law school exam; make the question as tough as you want, but allow a non-commercial outline. Most of the time, the questions were difficult/long enough to where if you spent time *reading* the outline, you would fail the test because of time constraints, but a quick glance to confirm would be sufficient.

MBE is 35% in CA, so not proportionally a lot, but definitely not insignificant. Unfortunately, at least for me, I can't do well in the MBE if I don't have the nuance/subelements down (or at least, that's what I've noticed from NCBE questions/Kaplan) so while I can get it down to 1-3 choices most of the time easily, then I get stuck.

Such is life. :(


Dude, I passed CA Bar. I literally couldn't state any law. I got two decent PTs, one maybe 77.5 essay, the rest prolly 55s, and a great MBE. It is possible.
Last edited by YibanRen on Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TheLegalOne
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Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby TheLegalOne » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:21 am

arizzle wrote:I have the worst memory of anyone you'll ever meet.

This is particularly burdensome for the essay portion of the exam. I am very good at spotting most of the issues, but fail miserably when I have to write out the elements of 50 different rules, theories, exceptions, etc.

So how do I cope with this?

Well, for the essays I focus on what I do well, issue spot. You will get some points for just spotting what is an issue and what isn't. For everything else, just get out what you DO know. If you know the rule, but don't remember the specific phrasing of the elements, try to articulate it in your own words as closely as possible. This won't get you maximum points, but it's better than nothing.

The other part of my strategy is to slay the MBE. I am much better with the MBE because a)you are prompted about what the answer might be, and b) there are always a few questions that even you don't know the right answer, you know all the rest are the wrong answer. So you can some gain some points simply by the mechanics of a multiple choice test.

This strategy works much better for other jurisdictions where the MBE is more heavily weighted, but it is what it is.

This is my problem too! I can issue spot my tail off and even know how the answer should be set-up but I spend too much time outlining because the freaking elements just won't come when I need them. I wanted to finish the full Themis program but realized earlier this week that writing the remaining essays would do nothing for my ability to recall on demand. Themis agreed and recommended I only do MBEs, set up PTs and work on recalling BLL - which I did all week...MBEs are up and I feel confident about the PTs but whatever I'm able to recall, after recalling a few other subjects, I can't recall what I knew earlier in the day. I just plan to put the rule in my own words where necessary, be strong in my analysis and cross my fingers when it's all said and done.

fslexcduck
Posts: 87
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Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby fslexcduck » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:54 am

I have a horrible, god-awful memory too and I have practically no rules "memorized." However, I've been studying a long time and feel really confident that I understand the law really well. I am barely reviewing today and just not going to worry.

I think everyone here is overblowing it with trying to remember rules word for word. I know that the bar prep courses all say "spit back this rule to maximize points" and beat it down your throat, but having looked at a lot of sample essay answers, it seems like it's way more important that you understand the law and give a good application/explanation than that you recite a rule back word for word.

I know that personally, when I have an issue and I think I know the exact rule because it's somewhere in the recesses of my brain, I'll waste 2-3 minutes just trying to come up with the right elements or the right wording. I just don't think it's worth it. Write down what you know the law is in your own words, and give a really solid application. If the rule hits you an hour later then you can come back and put it in, and if not, then it really doesn't seem like a big deal, despite what the Big Bad Barbri people say.

We all know the law. Just figure out what they're testing you on and prove that you know it, in whatever words you can.

Just my 2 cents.

redblueyellow
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: I can't remember freaking anything when I need it

Postby redblueyellow » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:12 pm

fslexcduck wrote:I know that personally, when I have an issue and I think I know the exact rule because it's somewhere in the recesses of my brain, I'll waste 2-3 minutes just trying to come up with the right elements or the right wording.


I'm inclined to agree with you, but there's two issues at play: 1. if the rule is memorized then MBEs become way easier since you don't need to fit "your" rule statement in the question to see which answer choice is most effective. Plus, when they test minor elements or exceptions, if you don't have that information down cold, you're going to get the question wrong. 2. On the essay, I tend to just completely blank and can't put down an issue if I can't remember the law. If I don't have the law down cold, I might completely miss the issue (or I might think that something is "off" but can't put my finger on it). Not sure what else to do at that point but to have law truly memorized so that if you at least miss an issue, the rest of your paper is strong OR you can issue spot a lot more accurately when you know the rules and see if you can make things fit.

Everyone's different, though :)




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