2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

nvbar2015
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2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby nvbar2015 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:20 pm

How do you guys feel this time around with 2 weeks left?

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reasonable troll
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby reasonable troll » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:33 am

like punching a hole through my computer every time i answer a question incorrectly in sets 5 or 6 of the barbri mbes.

sparty99
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby sparty99 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:36 am

I never took it last july but was supposed to so I feel like a second timer kind of. Definitely am not ready with the non-MBE subjects. Way too many subjects.

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tearsforbeers
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby tearsforbeers » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:10 am

My scaled score last July was 1432.something.... I was upset for a while and it took some time to get re-motivated for prep.

But, I am feeling pretty good this time around. Barbri AMP is helpful to make sure you have the rules down and they revamped it since last time (no nested pun intended). I have a tutor who has been very helpful too.

The main thing to remember is MAKE IT EASY FOR THE GRADERS.

A good example from my personal experience is that I never took Wills/Trusts but I ended up doing pretty good on the wills/trust CP question. I literally learned what a resulting trust was 2 days before the test. My answer for that question was only 4 pages long but it looked better than my answer for the torts question, which was 8 pages long. For the other subjects, my answers were between 6-7 pages long.

Keep it simple. Don't stress too hard. It's all about packaging. We spend years preparing for this exam only to have a grader spend 90 seconds grading our essays. It just has to look good and be fairly close to correct. It does not need to be spot on. Take a gander at some of the 65s and up on baressays.com. So many of them misstate the rules, but most of them are packaged fairly well.

I was that person who spent inordinate amounts of time perfecting rule statements word for word. BUT IT DID ME NO GOOD. Relax and read the facts. Throw out whatever rule you've got at your disposal and then do what you've been trained to do. Analyze the facts. That's my plan. 8)

It's about packaging, people. PACKAGING.

numbertwo88
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby numbertwo88 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:17 am

Some days I feel confident, other days I feel bad, and some days I want to crawl into a hole and die.

That aside, I'm doing better overall in comparison to my summer prep performance (higher % on MBE sets, higher scores on graded essays) but I don't know if I'll ever feel comfortable about it. Do I feel better than I did over the summer? Slightly - I believe I have a better grasp of the BLL which shows.

After not passing once I'm so terrified of not passing again, I worry I'll gain .571 points to my overall score as opposed to the 2.571 points I missed it by in July :(

I have knots in my stomach, I get anxious, and sometimes I just want to cry. This is literally the worst experience in the world. Maybe because I didn't feel this way over the summer it'll be better? I don't know. Not passing definitely lit a fire under my ass, that's for sure.

redblueyellow
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby redblueyellow » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:37 am

tearsforbeers wrote:
Keep it simple. Don't stress too hard. It's all about packaging. We spend years preparing for this exam only to have a grader spend 90 seconds grading our essays. It just has to look good and be fairly close to correct. It does not need to be spot on. Take a gander at some of the 65s and up on baressays.com. So many of them misstate the rules, but most of them are packaged fairly well.

I was that person who spent inordinate amounts of time perfecting rule statements word for word. BUT IT DID ME NO GOOD. Relax and read the facts. Throw out whatever rule you've got at your disposal and then do what you've been trained to do. Analyze the facts. That's my plan. 8)

It's about packaging, people. PACKAGING.


Wait, hang on, how can one pass the essays with a decent score if they don't know the rules either verbatim or at least in their own words, but still generally accurate?

The high scored essays on baressays still indicate that while the person did well on an exam, they must've done badly somewhere else (or more likely, MBE if they could not correctly identify rules).

This is my problem; I can't identify rules accurately enough (or if I do, fast enough) to where I can lay down a good paper or be accurate on the MBEs. I just have a tough time memorizing and that's what's tripping me up. I don't think packaging the paper to look nicer will help too much. I think your hard work on the rules still definitely played a huge part.

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JoanSloan
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby JoanSloan » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:40 pm

More specialized. More prepared (?). Less irrationally stressed. More humbled. More skeptical and concerned.

I have a much better grasp of the substantive material. I've been practicing a lot more to ensure consistent performance, and it's paid off.
This is definitely a learnable test, and seeing gains reduces my stress. Even if I know that those gains are on a simulated program that approximates, and in no way reflects, the actual test.

That being said, you really only have one chance to get everything right, so I'm always worried that I'm not doing enough, or that I'm doing things wrong. Even on the second run, you can't know everything. There simply is too much material to brute-memorize it all. You have to make judgment calls in how you allocate your time, and I am worried that I'm making the wrong judgments.

On top of that, testers have been throwing a lot of curve balls in the last few years. A lot of departures from past testing patterns. New subjects left and right. Last summer basically showed us that padding on the curve won't necessarily compensate for that. So, those "unknown unknowns" are really a bummer.

If all of that sounds cliche, then it's probably because this whole situation is cliche...

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reasonable troll
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby reasonable troll » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:33 pm

JoanSloan wrote:More humbled. More skeptical and concerned.


sparty99
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby sparty99 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:27 pm

redblueyellow wrote:
tearsforbeers wrote:
Keep it simple. Don't stress too hard. It's all about packaging. We spend years preparing for this exam only to have a grader spend 90 seconds grading our essays. It just has to look good and be fairly close to correct. It does not need to be spot on. Take a gander at some of the 65s and up on baressays.com. So many of them misstate the rules, but most of them are packaged fairly well.

I was that person who spent inordinate amounts of time perfecting rule statements word for word. BUT IT DID ME NO GOOD. Relax and read the facts. Throw out whatever rule you've got at your disposal and then do what you've been trained to do. Analyze the facts. That's my plan. 8)

It's about packaging, people. PACKAGING.


Wait, hang on, how can one pass the essays with a decent score if they don't know the rules either verbatim or at least in their own words, but still generally accurate?

The high scored essays on baressays still indicate that while the person did well on an exam, they must've done badly somewhere else (or more likely, MBE if they could not correctly identify rules).

This is my problem; I can't identify rules accurately enough (or if I do, fast enough) to where I can lay down a good paper or be accurate on the MBEs. I just have a tough time memorizing and that's what's tripping me up. I don't think packaging the paper to look nicer will help too much. I think your hard work on the rules still definitely played a huge part.


I think it's impossible to know the rules verbatim. But if you know it generally...and say the buzz words of some of the rules.

If you can't remember Adverse Posession, I came up with: C-HOE...Continous, hostile, open and notorious, exclusive

numbertwo88
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby numbertwo88 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:39 pm

There's also A Hooker ON Every Corner for adverse possession - I literally cannot forget that.

sparty99
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby sparty99 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:45 pm

numbertwo88 wrote:There's also A Hooker ON Every Corner for adverse possession - I literally cannot forget that.


Nice. Got any more?

redblueyellow
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby redblueyellow » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:32 pm

sparty99 wrote:I think it's impossible to know the rules verbatim. But if you know it generally...and say the buzz words of some of the rules.

If you can't remember Adverse Posession, I came up with: C-HOE...Continous, hostile, open and notorious, exclusive


Some of the big ones are pretty easy to remember, mainly because you see it so often or you've learned them well enough to remember.

I do know AP, but then ask me something like Impleader? And I'll be like "uhh, that's the one where the defendant brings in another party right? There was uhhh permissive impleader and compulsory impleader, I think? Now what were the rules for that?"

sparty99 wrote:
numbertwo88 wrote:There's also A Hooker ON Every Corner for adverse possession - I literally cannot forget that.


Nice. Got any more?


MY LEGS for Statute of Frauds categories:

Marriage; more than one Year, Land; Executor; Guaranty; Suretyship (or, Sales of goods over $500).

MIMIC for why certain evidence can be admitted:

Mistake; Intent; Motive; Identity; Common scheme/plan

You can tell that I don't too many mnemonics, haha. These are all from the book!

ilovetypos
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby ilovetypos » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:51 pm

numbertwo88 wrote:There's also A Hooker ON Every Corner for adverse possession - I literally cannot forget that.


Definitely using this!

cndounda1985
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby cndounda1985 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:55 pm

Terry is ARMED and DANGEROUS -since terry stops require reasonable suspicion person is armed and dangerous.

ilovetypos
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby ilovetypos » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:34 pm

cndounda1985 wrote:Terry is ARMED and DANGEROUS -since terry stops require reasonable suspicion person is armed and dangerous.


I thought Terry just required a reasonable suspicion that crime is afoot?

cndounda1985
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby cndounda1985 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:43 pm

No, i believe if they have reasonable suspicion person committed a crime AND that person is armed and dangerous, they may stop person (for limited duration) and pat them down for weapons. I just use that mnemonic to quickly jog my memory, you don't have to use it.

sparty99
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby sparty99 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:02 pm

cndounda1985 wrote:Terry is ARMED and DANGEROUS -since terry stops require reasonable suspicion person is armed and dangerous.


I think this misstates the law.

cndounda1985
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby cndounda1985 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:24 pm

Its short hand for Terry/Frisk stop...Terry requires reasonable articulable suspicion crime has been committed, Frisk-R/S that person is armed and dangerous, limited to pat down for weapons only. I just made it short for myself to remember, you don't have to use it.

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WORLDSTAR
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby WORLDSTAR » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:32 am

nvbar2015 wrote:How do you guys feel this time around with 2 weeks left?


Terrified by the changes to the MBE (civ pro) and to New York (admin law). NY could decide to test admin law through multiple choice questions, through an essay, or not at all.

sportwarrior
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby sportwarrior » Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:48 pm

sparty99 wrote:
numbertwo88 wrote:There's also A Hooker ON Every Corner for adverse possession - I literally cannot forget that.


Nice. Got any more?


Real Property is full of em

COAH for Adverse Possession/Perscriptive Easements

Continuous use, Open and notorious, Actual Possession, and Hostile to actual owner

PING for Creation of Easements

Prescription - Implication/Necessity - Grant

END CRAMP for ending Easements

Estoppel - Necessity - Destruction of property - Condemnation - Release - Abandonment - Merger - Perscription

TTIP and SPAM for creation and termination of Joint Tenancy

WITCH eNVy for creation and running of burden for Covenant, WIT-V for benefit to run, WITNES for Equitable Servitude

Star Crossed Enterprise Quits Warping FAst for covenants of warranty (yeah I'm a nerd)

Then there's a bunch for others, but I just spent the day reviewing RP and now I feel like I can't remember anything else, which is pretty normal for my days lately. Dunno if I can handle this.

redblueyellow
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby redblueyellow » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:30 pm

sportwarrior wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
numbertwo88 wrote:There's also A Hooker ON Every Corner for adverse possession - I literally cannot forget that.


Nice. Got any more?


Real Property is full of em

COAH for Adverse Possession/Perscriptive Easements

Continuous use, Open and notorious, Actual Possession, and Hostile to actual owner

PING for Creation of Easements

Prescription - Implication/Necessity - Grant

END CRAMP for ending Easements

Estoppel - Necessity - Destruction of property - Condemnation - Release - Abandonment - Merger - Perscription

TTIP and SPAM for creation and termination of Joint Tenancy

WITCH eNVy for creation and running of burden for Covenant, WIT-V for benefit to run, WITNES for Equitable Servitude

Star Crossed Enterprise Quits Warping FAst for covenants of warranty (yeah I'm a nerd)

Then there's a bunch for others, but I just spent the day reviewing RP and now I feel like I can't remember anything else, which is pretty normal for my days lately. Dunno if I can handle this.


http://i.imgur.com/XOdFNKq.jpg

sportwarrior
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby sportwarrior » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:50 pm

sparty99 wrote:
cndounda1985 wrote:Terry is ARMED and DANGEROUS -since terry stops require reasonable suspicion person is armed and dangerous.


I think this misstates the law.

Yeah, stop and frisk/terry stops don't require suspicion that someone is armed and dangerous. They require articulable, reasonable suspicion that someone is engaged in criminal activity, demonstrated by totality of the circumstances. BUT their search based on reasonable suspicion is limited to a pat-down of the suspect's outer clothing and body. If the officer feels something he reasonably believes by plain feel to be a weapon or contraband, it may be later admissible.

And yeah, I took a lot of that from my outline. I just went over crim pro the other day and I feel like it's all been pushed out the back door by real property.

nvbar2015
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby nvbar2015 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:54 am

sportwarrior wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
cndounda1985 wrote:Terry is ARMED and DANGEROUS -since terry stops require reasonable suspicion person is armed and dangerous.


I think this misstates the law.

Yeah, stop and frisk/terry stops don't require suspicion that someone is armed and dangerous. They require articulable, reasonable suspicion that someone is engaged in criminal activity, demonstrated by totality of the circumstances. BUT their search based on reasonable suspicion is limited to a pat-down of the suspect's outer clothing and body. If the officer feels something he reasonably believes by plain feel to be a weapon or contraband, it may be later admissible.

And yeah, I took a lot of that from my outline. I just went over crim pro the other day and I feel like it's all been pushed out the back door by real property.


Terry frisks require reasonable suspicion that somebody is armed and dangerous. Terry stops require reasonable suspicion supported by articulable facts of criminal activity.

redblueyellow
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Re: 2nd timers (and third timers), how do you feel this time?

Postby redblueyellow » Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:48 am

This is what I have for Stop and Frisk (Terry Stop)

1. the initial detention requires reasonable suspicion of criminal activity
2. if the officer believes that the detained individual is armed OR dangerous, he may do a pat down ("plain feel") of the individual to determine if he has any weapons or contraband
3. the officer must not manipulate the object to ascertain what it is (logic: if they can't figure it out from a pat down, then they'd require a more invasive search and that is not protected)
4. if the detained individual acts suspiciously OR the objects that are seized as a result of a valid pat down are weapons or contraband, it will give the officer probable cause to arrest the individual




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