2015 February California Bar Exam

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bb8900
Posts: 91
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby bb8900 » Wed May 20, 2015 5:41 pm

Notorious RBG wrote:Final score: 1420

So I just want to say, this second read must help very few people yes? I mean think about it- you get re-read if your first score is over 1390. But to bring your average up to 1440 that means the second read for someone in the high 1300's would have to be in the HIGH 1400's, which is basically not possible right? It seems to me they should use the higher of the two reads if they're going to bother reading again, otherwise what is the point? I mean, use the higher of the two for each essay, or use the higher of the two overall reads, but if you're going to average them and you're already very close, how many people can that possibly help? I just don't understand how a second read really helps them do anything other than cover their butts. Which let's be honest, do they even care about that?

Obviously I'm bitter. *Sigh* But I'm right back on the horse, studying for July.


I agree. The regrades are stupid if you don't just use the higher scores. To spark a regrade requires at least a 1390, but to get the total over 1440 means the regrade needs to be like 1490. No one gets that high. It basically only helps people who got a 1435, then a regrade.

Notorious RBG
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby Notorious RBG » Wed May 20, 2015 6:00 pm

bb8900 wrote:
Notorious RBG wrote:Final score: 1420

So I just want to say, this second read must help very few people yes? I mean think about it- you get re-read if your first score is over 1390. But to bring your average up to 1440 that means the second read for someone in the high 1300's would have to be in the HIGH 1400's, which is basically not possible right? It seems to me they should use the higher of the two reads if they're going to bother reading again, otherwise what is the point? I mean, use the higher of the two for each essay, or use the higher of the two overall reads, but if you're going to average them and you're already very close, how many people can that possibly help? I just don't understand how a second read really helps them do anything other than cover their butts. Which let's be honest, do they even care about that?

Obviously I'm bitter. *Sigh* But I'm right back on the horse, studying for July.


I agree. The regrades are stupid if you don't just use the higher scores. To spark a regrade requires at least a 1390, but to get the total over 1440 means the regrade needs to be like 1490. No one gets that high. It basically only helps people who got a 1435, then a regrade.


Exactly, except even with a 1435 it isn't likely to help. It's more likely to hurt or do nothing at all, because you'd have to do SIGNIFICANTLY higher OVERALL since they are averaging all of them together. I just don't see the point and I can't imagine it helps hardly anyone so I don't understand why they do it. I guess so they have a record that shows that the one grader wasn't totally nuts. But not to help the examinees. If someone gets a 1435 and then on the second read gets a 1440, Jesus Christ they should pass!

Biotech
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby Biotech » Wed May 20, 2015 6:06 pm

Having gotten my scores back 4 times now, I'll say there is a touch of random to why one essay gets a 60 and not a 65. My best scores have always been on essays I was most comfortable with thinking about in plain language rather than memorized rules of law. Ymmv.

PTs - I practiced them the way I learned on the Flemings tutorial and it's worked decently. I went from 50/55 my first attempt to 60/65/70s. I don't think anyone should expect to pass with less than 60/65 on PTs but that's just more speculation.

MBEs - repetition. If you do enough the answers become much more obvious. In all honesty I didn't do enough civ pro practice MBEs or civ pro review and my score reflects that.

There are so many moving parts and obviously being strong on all parts gets you a pass but for me, because essays are so effing subjective, I am going to prioritize on getting a way higher MBE score and getting even more comfortable with PTs. 4 points yo lol.

And thank you for the condolences. They are much appreciated.

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TheLegalOne
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby TheLegalOne » Wed May 20, 2015 6:11 pm

a male human wrote:
TheLegalOne wrote:As if waiting until 6 pm on 5/15/15 wasn't bad enough to find out I failed, I still do not have my scores. Is there anyone else in SoCal in the same boat?

It took me a week to get mine last year. You could try calling them to double check, but they're utter dicks on the phone. Thanks for making my phone phobia worse you bastards.


Thanks for the response. I called both locations yesterday. They said I have to wait 2 weeks before requesting a reprint and would not allow me to visit the office and show ID to get a copy. I hope my scores arrive soon. This is torture.

Notorious RBG
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby Notorious RBG » Wed May 20, 2015 6:14 pm

I mean, if re-reads aren't likely to help even a 1435, why the heck bother doing them at all?

thirdtimer
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby thirdtimer » Wed May 20, 2015 8:23 pm

Notorious RBG wrote:I mean, if re-reads aren't likely to help even a 1435, why the heck bother doing them at all?


don't forget that there could be re-reads on a 1435 that passed, but we will never know how many of those passed after re-read...I still think they should use the highest score...

Notorious RBG
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby Notorious RBG » Wed May 20, 2015 8:43 pm

thirdtimer wrote:
Notorious RBG wrote:I mean, if re-reads aren't likely to help even a 1435, why the heck bother doing them at all?


don't forget that there could be re-reads on a 1435 that passed, but we will never know how many of those passed after re-read...I still think they should use the highest score...


Oh yeah I know that's true in theory, but when you think about the math I don't think it could possibly be common. Just due to the way they calculate things. My take away is that the purpose of re-reads isn't to help out people that are close- it's to make people who got close feel like the bar gave them a second chance when in reality that second chance is not what it seems as it is really stacked against the examinee.

I wonder what the stats are on people who pass who had a second read. I'd be willing to bet it's extremely low, and probably just the people who were in the 1430's or maybe 1420's (in which case doing re-reads for 1390's does not make sense at all).

edit: And also in theory I guess the re-read protects people from truly random/horrible graders, but in reality they seem to give mostly 65's or near there anyway and regardless they only re-read if you score over 1390 so...

In sum, re-reads are on the whole dumb and I'd rather have the test be half as expensive and twice as fast with results with just one read for everyone.

LawDog86
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby LawDog86 » Wed May 20, 2015 8:57 pm

chimp wrote:
hotsummer wrote:Thank you!!

So, many people share the huge long table?
Also, it doesn't seem like you stayed at the hotel, but if you know any, could you recommend one you heard of/or saw as the closest to the center?

pretty much. there were a bunch of long tables, but there was plenty of room between me and the people on either side of me. I didn't stay at a hotel, but I have a couple of friends who did. one of them stayed at the best western right next to the convention center and he seemed to be happy with it from what I could tell. there are a bunch of hotels within walking distance. a google maps search should provide you with lots of options.


I agree with Chimp: pretty standard experience when I took the Bar Exam here in July 2013. Big room, several rows of long tables. I did hear the nearby train during PTB during the last 30 mins of the exam but you're so in the zone it doesn't really matter.

As for hotels, I stayed at the Marriott Residence Inn. It was right across the street from the OCC and the rooms had had kitchens which was great during lunch time. It allows you to take a mid-day break away from the other exam takers. Also, they have a great continental breakfast. But the best thing was it's proximity to the OCC. Trust me, seeing all the traffic and people frantically looking for parking while you simply walk across the street is a great way to start each exam morning. No need for the added stress of driving over there and looking for parking. Plus, I don't know if you're familiar with Ontario, but it's very crowded and each intersection takes about 2 minutes for the lights to turn. Not worth it.

comet_halley
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby comet_halley » Wed May 20, 2015 11:59 pm

thirdtimer wrote:
Notorious RBG wrote:I mean, if re-reads aren't likely to help even a 1435, why the heck bother doing them at all?


don't forget that there could be re-reads on a 1435 that passed, but we will never know how many of those passed after re-read...I still think they should use the highest score...

according to percentile table and actual pass rate 39.5%,
50 1389
55 1410
60 1435
65 1450

Actually, only about 10-15% takers got re-reads.Although normal distribution would be better, it would be more easy to suppose that it is a uniform distribution between 1435 and 1450. The pass rate should be 38.3%. The actual pass rate is 39.5%, the difference is about 1.2%.

So only about 10% people got benefit from re-reads. most of them should be higher than 1430.

There are about 4700 test takers, 500-600 got re-reads, and about 60 passed by re-reads.

I
Last edited by comet_halley on Thu May 21, 2015 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Notorious RBG
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby Notorious RBG » Thu May 21, 2015 12:10 am

comet_halley wrote:
thirdtimer wrote:
Notorious RBG wrote:I mean, if re-reads aren't likely to help even a 1435, why the heck bother doing them at all?


don't forget that there could be re-reads on a 1435 that passed, but we will never know how many of those passed after re-read...I still think they should use the highest score...

according to percentile table and actual pass rate 39.5%,
50 1389
55 1410
60 1435
65 1450

Actually, only about 10-15% takers got re-reads.Although normal distribution would be better, it would be more easy to suppose that it is a uniform distribution between 1435 and 1450. The pass rate should be 38.3%. The actual pass rate is 39.5%, the difference is about 1.2%.

So only about 10% people got benefit from re-reads. most of them should be higher than 1430.


Thanks for this breakdown comet! I haven't researched the numbers, I almost feel like, why bother? It's depressing. So are you saying that 10-15% get re-reads, and a further 10% of those people benefit from the re-reads? It seems to me like a system that benefits only 1% of takers is not worth the trouble (maybe just lower the first time passing score to 1430 or something, given the subjectivity of the reads). But I guess those 1% that benefitted wouldn't agree with me there. :wink:

pineapple99
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby pineapple99 » Thu May 21, 2015 12:59 am

Notorious RBG wrote:
thirdtimer wrote:
Notorious RBG wrote:I mean, if re-reads aren't likely to help even a 1435, why the heck bother doing them at all?


don't forget that there could be re-reads on a 1435 that passed, but we will never know how many of those passed after re-read...I still think they should use the highest score...


Oh yeah I know that's true in theory, but when you think about the math I don't think it could possibly be common. Just due to the way they calculate things. My take away is that the purpose of re-reads isn't to help out people that are close- it's to make people who got close feel like the bar gave them a second chance when in reality that second chance is not what it seems as it is really stacked against the examinee.

I wonder what the stats are on people who pass who had a second read. I'd be willing to bet it's extremely low, and probably just the people who were in the 1430's or maybe 1420's (in which case doing re-reads for 1390's does not make sense at all).

edit: And also in theory I guess the re-read protects people from truly random/horrible graders, but in reality they seem to give mostly 65's or near there anyway and regardless they only re-read if you score over 1390 so...

In sum, re-reads are on the whole dumb and I'd rather have the test be half as expensive and twice as fast with results with just one read for everyone.


My tutor/former bar grader told me thet 90% of people fail on second read. The reason being that bar grades are told to give a higher score if for instance they can't decide if it should be a 60-65. Upon second read, the grader is much more strict and does not give leeway. Hence why often times the second set of scores are lower than the first.

JDMBALLMMS
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby JDMBALLMMS » Thu May 21, 2015 3:46 pm

Tried to get ThemisBar to give me access to the modules towards February 2016 test but I was informed that I have to pay $720 despite the initial promise of access if at least 70% of the module was completed, which I did. They called the fee an administrative fee. This is just to let others know that ThemisBar may not be telling the full truth about access to their modules after failing.

" Hi ,

I am so sorry to hear about your results on the July 2015 California Bar Exam. I have added the February 2016 course to your account at our administrative fee of $720. You may complete enrollment by submitting payment at any time. The February 2016 course will become available in early October 2016.

Please let me know if I can help with anything else!

Best,

R---- G------
Themis Bar Review
312-2------, r------.g------@themisbar.com "
"

Domiii
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby Domiii » Thu May 21, 2015 6:26 pm

JDMBALLMMS wrote:Tried to get ThemisBar to give me access to the modules towards February 2016 test but I was informed that I have to pay $720 despite the initial promise of access if at least 70% of the module was completed, which I did. They called the fee an administrative fee. This is just to let others know that ThemisBar may not be telling the full truth about access to their modules after failing.

" Hi ,

I am so sorry to hear about your results on the July 2015 California Bar Exam. I have added the February 2016 course to your account at our administrative fee of $720. You may complete enrollment by submitting payment at any time. The February 2016 course will become available in early October 2016.

Please let me know if I can help with anything else!

Best,

R---- G------
Themis Bar Review
312-2------, r------.g------@themisbar.com "
"


Wow, seriously? So their "administrative fee" is basically 50% of the total cost of the course?

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a male human
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Thu May 21, 2015 6:41 pm

JDMBALLMMS wrote:Tried to get ThemisBar to give me access to the modules towards February 2016 test but I was informed that I have to pay $720 despite the initial promise of access if at least 70% of the module was completed, which I did. They called the fee an administrative fee. This is just to let others know that ThemisBar may not be telling the full truth about access to their modules after failing.

" Hi ,

I am so sorry to hear about your results on the July 2015 California Bar Exam. I have added the February 2016 course to your account at our administrative fee of $720. You may complete enrollment by submitting payment at any time. The February 2016 course will become available in early October 2016.

Please let me know if I can help with anything else!

Best,

R---- G------
Themis Bar Review
312-2------, r------.g------@themisbar.com "
"

You could try emailing back and saying something like:

"Yes, I have a question actually. I was under the assumption that Themis would let me retake the course for free for retakers if I completed at least 70%. According to my account, it looks like I finished X%. Could the $720 fee have been a mistake?

Thanks,
Your name"

Also if it was actually not a mistake, you could probably negotiate it down by threatening them nicely by citing BarMax's price and saying there's no incentive for you to stay with a program that didn't deliver results.

morescotchplease
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby morescotchplease » Thu May 21, 2015 6:56 pm

a male human wrote: there's no incentive for you to stay with a program that didn't deliver results.


I'm bet my money that will get you a QUICK response. #pleasestay

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a male human
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Thu May 21, 2015 7:02 pm

I'm just shaking my head at how boilerplate this sounds:

I am so sorry to hear about your results on the July 2015 California Bar Exam. I have added the February 2016 course to your account at our administrative fee of $720.

"sorry about ur [Month] [Year] [State] Bar Exam!! but here's our course again for just $720"

JDMBALLMMS
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby JDMBALLMMS » Thu May 21, 2015 8:46 pm

a male human wrote:I'm just shaking my head at how boilerplate this sounds:

I am so sorry to hear about your results on the July 2015 California Bar Exam. I have added the February 2016 course to your account at our administrative fee of $720.

"sorry about ur [Month] [Year] [State] Bar Exam!! but here's our course again for just $720"


LOL!!!! Noticed the July 2015 bit after posting.
I got a reply after asking why the administrative fee and themis said their promise is for only one repeat and not a second repeat which is the situation in my case. My PTs were 70/70 and MBE 1445. My essays were bad with Real Property the exception with 70. The lesson is that for the essays, I need to review all past answers and understand ALL issues and analyses on every aspect of a topic. This worked for RP. Also hoping to improve on my MBE as a score of 1445 = 127/190 = 66.3%. A 75% in the MBE is doable. SO my strategy is using my outlines only for reading rule statements, Adaptibar and Barmax for MBEs and past questions/answers and stratifying them according to subject matters. Thanks

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SpAcEmAn SpLiFF
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby SpAcEmAn SpLiFF » Fri May 22, 2015 6:19 pm

So I got around to looking at my scores and I'm pretty sure I did absolutely terrible.

1. 55
2. 75
3. 60
4. 55
5. 60
6. 50
PT A. 55
PT B. 55

Scaled Written: 1305
Scaled MBE: 1415

Anyone wanna offer their opinion as to how dire my situation is? If 1440 is passing, do I realistically wanna score above 1440 by a decent margin on both sections of the exam? This really just murdered any shred of confidence I had left.

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a male human
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Fri May 22, 2015 7:17 pm

SpAcEmAn SpLiFF wrote:So I got around to looking at my scores and I'm pretty sure I did absolutely terrible.

1. 55
2. 75
3. 60
4. 55
5. 60
6. 50
PT A. 55
PT B. 55

Scaled Written: 1305
Scaled MBE: 1415

Anyone wanna offer their opinion as to how dire my situation is? If 1440 is passing, do I realistically wanna score above 1440 by a decent margin on both sections of the exam? This really just murdered any shred of confidence I had left.

Not dire. That's pretty similar to what I got the first time. What was your total scaled score?

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SpAcEmAn SpLiFF
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby SpAcEmAn SpLiFF » Fri May 22, 2015 7:43 pm

a male human wrote:
SpAcEmAn SpLiFF wrote:So I got around to looking at my scores and I'm pretty sure I did absolutely terrible.

1. 55
2. 75
3. 60
4. 55
5. 60
6. 50
PT A. 55
PT B. 55

Scaled Written: 1305
Scaled MBE: 1415

Anyone wanna offer their opinion as to how dire my situation is? If 1440 is passing, do I realistically wanna score above 1440 by a decent margin on both sections of the exam? This really just murdered any shred of confidence I had left.

Not dire. That's pretty similar to what I got the first time. What was your total scaled score?

Total scaled was 1344. I knew I wasn't as prepared as I wanted to be, but I honestly walked away from the CBX feeling like I gave the minimally competent performance needed to pass the test. I guess I was way off.

nomorecbx
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby nomorecbx » Fri May 22, 2015 8:03 pm

I failed the July 2014 Bar. But I passed the February 2015 CA Bar Exam. IF I CAN DO IT, SO YOU CAN YOU.

My parents have broken English and never made it past elementary/middle school. I've lived in poverty and depended on government assistance all my life. I'm responsible for feeding many mouths. In law school, I struggled, but improved. After failing in July, I whined and cried for a few weeks, but took a long road trip and got right back up. I mentally convinced myself that I would pass and that nothing would get in my way. With that confidence, I began studying with a bar prep tutor (message me if you want his name). He kicked my ass, made me work hard, and I did. I worked tirelessly, literally shedding blood, sweat, and tears. I did all this while at nights sleeping in a 8 x 10 room with four people.

Passing the bar exam isn't impossible and this perverted system makes it seems like it is. I lost all self-confidence in myself after failing the first time, but I realized the exam is built to tear you apart. "I am the captain of my ship and the master of my fate." I own the Bar, the Bar doesn't own me. I went into Day 1 with 2 hours of sleep but powered through. I then made Day 2 and Day 3 my bitch.

Where did all of this self-confidence miraculously come from? Competence. COMPETENCE BREEDS CONFIDENCE. If you learn how to write good essays, memorize the law, and learn how to conquer the PTs, you will pass (my tutor taught me how to do all of this, or at least got me close to it). You don't have to be perfect, and you won't be perfect. So don't try. What you need is confidence and an ironclad gut.

You can pass the Bar Exam. I'm the first in my family to attend graduate school. I'm a minority. I'm unprivileged. But I passed a test that nobody thought I would. So can you.

Now pick yourself up and own the Bar!

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a male human
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Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby a male human » Fri May 22, 2015 8:27 pm

nomorecbx wrote:I failed the July 2014 Bar. But I passed the February 2015 CA Bar Exam. IF I CAN DO IT, SO YOU CAN YOU.

My parents have broken English and never made it past elementary/middle school. I've lived in poverty and depended on government assistance all my life. I'm responsible for feeding many mouths. In law school, I struggled, but improved. After failing in July, I whined and cried for a few weeks, but took a long road trip and got right back up. I mentally convinced myself that I would pass and that nothing would get in my way. With that confidence, I began studying with a bar prep tutor (message me if you want his name). He kicked my ass, made me work hard, and I did. I worked tirelessly, literally shedding blood, sweat, and tears. I did all this while at nights sleeping in a 8 x 10 room with four people.

Passing the bar exam isn't impossible and this perverted system makes it seems like it is. I lost all self-confidence in myself after failing the first time, but I realized the exam is built to tear you apart. "I am the captain of my ship and the master of my fate." I own the Bar, the Bar doesn't own me. I went into Day 1 with 2 hours of sleep but powered through. I then made Day 2 and Day 3 my bitch.

Where did all of this self-confidence miraculously come from? Competence. COMPETENCE BREEDS CONFIDENCE. If you learn how to write good essays, memorize the law, and learn how to conquer the PTs, you will pass (my tutor taught me how to do all of this, or at least got me close to it). You don't have to be perfect, and you won't be perfect. So don't try. What you need is confidence and an ironclad gut.

You can pass the Bar Exam. I'm the first in my family to attend graduate school. I'm a minority. I'm unprivileged. But I passed a test that nobody thought I would. So can you.

Now pick yourself up and own the Bar!

Nice job! One question: Where did the blood come from?

Spliff, it is totally possible to improve over 100 points, especially if you were working full time the first time.

injun
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:28 pm

Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby injun » Sat May 23, 2015 1:18 pm

Hi All,

I tried working on PTA from this past February and it suddenly hit me again why I got a 50. I had problems mapping the issues from the cases to questions asked. This might be a long shot, but would anyone being willing to explain how the issues from the cases can be mapped to the specific questions in the memorandum? I felt like my answer to A blended into the other questions. Thanks in advance for ANY info with this

My_name_is_jimmothy
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 2:16 pm

Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby My_name_is_jimmothy » Mon May 25, 2015 2:23 pm

nomorecbx wrote:I failed the July 2014 Bar. But I passed the February 2015 CA Bar Exam. IF I CAN DO IT, SO YOU CAN YOU.

My parents have broken English and never made it past elementary/middle school. I've lived in poverty and depended on government assistance all my life. I'm responsible for feeding many mouths. In law school, I struggled, but improved. After failing in July, I whined and cried for a few weeks, but took a long road trip and got right back up. I mentally convinced myself that I would pass and that nothing would get in my way. With that confidence, I began studying with a bar prep tutor (message me if you want his name). He kicked my ass, made me work hard, and I did. I worked tirelessly, literally shedding blood, sweat, and tears. I did all this while at nights sleeping in a 8 x 10 room with four people.

Passing the bar exam isn't impossible and this perverted system makes it seems like it is. I lost all self-confidence in myself after failing the first time, but I realized the exam is built to tear you apart. "I am the captain of my ship and the master of my fate." I own the Bar, the Bar doesn't own me. I went into Day 1 with 2 hours of sleep but powered through. I then made Day 2 and Day 3 my bitch.

Where did all of this self-confidence miraculously come from? Competence. COMPETENCE BREEDS CONFIDENCE. If you learn how to write good essays, memorize the law, and learn how to conquer the PTs, you will pass (my tutor taught me how to do all of this, or at least got me close to it). You don't have to be perfect, and you won't be perfect. So don't try. What you need is confidence and an ironclad gut.

You can pass the Bar Exam. I'm the first in my family to attend graduate school. I'm a minority. I'm unprivileged. But I passed a test that nobody thought I would. So can you.

Now pick yourself up and own the Bar!


So happy for you. You deserve it!

My_name_is_jimmothy
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 2:16 pm

Re: 2015 February California Bar Exam

Postby My_name_is_jimmothy » Mon May 25, 2015 2:24 pm

SpAcEmAn SpLiFF wrote:
a male human wrote:
SpAcEmAn SpLiFF wrote:So I got around to looking at my scores and I'm pretty sure I did absolutely terrible.

1. 55
2. 75
3. 60
4. 55
5. 60
6. 50
PT A. 55
PT B. 55

Scaled Written: 1305
Scaled MBE: 1415

Anyone wanna offer their opinion as to how dire my situation is? If 1440 is passing, do I realistically wanna score above 1440 by a decent margin on both sections of the exam? This really just murdered any shred of confidence I had left.

Not dire. That's pretty similar to what I got the first time. What was your total scaled score?

Total scaled was 1344. I knew I wasn't as prepared as I wanted to be, but I honestly walked away from the CBX feeling like I gave the minimally competent performance needed to pass the test. I guess I was way off.


Maybe obvious but your PT and MBE scores present the best opportunities for improvement.




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