PA Bar Wait Group

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VSCPGH

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby VSCPGH » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:06 am

I just emailed my dean again to see if she's gotten any wind of when to expect results. I'll update the group if I hear anything.

It would be total BS if we had to wait another week, given they were out this time last year and I know there's been less and less takers in PA.

eaclose

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby eaclose » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:13 am

Hi Guys. I have been following this discussion for a few days now hoping to get some information about when results will be released. I actually called the PA Board of Law Examiners office this morning. I asked if they had a date for the release of bar results yet and she replied "no, but it will be posted on our website when we do." I followed up and asked whether applicants will get an e-mail prior alerting us to date/time and she just said "yes." Soo I really didn't get much helpful information from her but thought I would share.

Fingers crossed we get an e-mail today or tomorrow indicating that the results will be out THIS friday, Oct. 7th. I cannot obsess over this any longer!!!

OnTheRise

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby OnTheRise » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:04 pm

I just called on my lunch break and got the same information. Said that it would be posted when they had a date and we would be informed via email when they had a date. Wouldn't say how far in advance we would get an email just "when we have a date". Frustrating...

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VSCPGH

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby VSCPGH » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:17 pm

So I just heard from my dean... thinking it might be this Friday, but that the bar examiners usually post a notice on the website the week they will release (which would be today around 3 if we went on past precedent). The assistant director of bar services; however, thinks it will be next week.

Sigh.

AnaMariana42

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby AnaMariana42 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:28 pm

dang. i really thought it was gonna be this week. at least i have the long weekend/short vaca to make the time go faster till next Friday...

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VSCPGH

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby VSCPGH » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:37 pm

Last year we got the email Wednesday at 3:01 p.m.... there's still hope!

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mcweanis

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby mcweanis » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:04 pm

IT's 3:02
NOOOOO

Wait but the email usually comes on Wednesday?
But when someone called they said the email would be coming on a Thursday??

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VSCPGH

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby VSCPGH » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:07 pm

mcweanis wrote:IT's 3:02
NOOOOO

Wait but the email usually comes on Wednesday?
But when someone called they said the email would be coming on a Thursday??



Last year, it was 3:01 Wednesday October 7. In Feb, it was some time around 6:00 April 6 (Wednesday before) and someone here said it will be tomorrow or next Thursday.. still holding out hope that we get them Friday.. I literally have a job interview waiting to be scheduled until I know. No pressure or anything :roll:

OnTheRise

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby OnTheRise » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:08 pm

I just hate how they won't give us any information at all. It's not like our lives are hanging in the balance or anything...

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby Njbar » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:08 pm

Have you guys requested NCBE to send MPRE score to PA bar?

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VSCPGH

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby VSCPGH » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:10 pm

Njbar wrote:Have you guys requested NCBE to send MPRE score to PA bar?


Mine was automatically send there once we got the results, so you only need to do that if you initially sent it to another jurisdiction.

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mcweanis

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby mcweanis » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:11 pm

since we are trapped in endless contemplation anyway, does anybody have knowledge about how this thing is scored? Here's what's on the website:

The six answers to the essay examination and the PT (valued at 1.5 times an essay question) will be graded, totaled and scaled to the MBE. The combined essay and PT scores will be weighted at 55%, and the MBE score will be weighted at 45% of the total scaled score. The scaled scores of the PT/essay examination and MBE will then be combined to determine whether a scaled score of 272 or higher has been attained.


So.. I'm not mathematically minded. Let's say I got a 160 on the MBE. Does that mean I have 160 points out of the 272 I need? Or less?

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VSCPGH

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby VSCPGH » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:22 pm

Found this:

"1) The Raw Points -- A total of 340 raw points are available on the exam. 190 of these points come from the MBE. There are 200 questions on the MBE, and 10 of these are test questions for future exams and will not count toward your total. That leaves 190 questions, and each is worth one raw point. There are 150 raw points available on the PA essay exam. There are six essays worth 20 points each, and the PA Performance Test. The PT is graded out of 20 points, and then that raw score (for just the PT) is weighted and multiplied by 1.5. This gives you 30 "raw" points for the PT.

2) Scaling the MBE and Essays -- The raw score for each half of the exam is then scaled. The scaling is done separately for each half. This is sometimes referred to as a curve, but the exam is not curved. You will not find the word "curve" or any variation thereof on the websites for the NCBE or the PA examiners. There is not a pre-determined outcome to the bar exam (which is the most common understanding of "curved" to a law student). This is not your 1L torts class. In theory, 100% of bar applicants could pass the July 2013 bar exam.

So the bar exam is scaled, not curved, and the goal of the scaling is to equate/standardize difficulty across exams (and not separate students within the exam). This is similar to the LSAT. The scaling ensures that you are not penalized or rewarded---relative to prior examinees---for taking a relatively more difficult or relatively easier exam. The difficulty of an exam is determined by the examiners using a complicated statistical method; for our purposes, it's important to know that the examiners are pretty good at standardizing difficulty when writing the exam, so the scaling from year to year tends to be somewhat consistent and I can offer a pretty good estimate before test day. For example, here are some scores from the last two July MBEs:

- In July 2011, a raw score of 100 translated to a scaled score of 121.9, and a raw score of 120 translated to a scaled score of 137.5.
- In July 2012, a raw score of 100 translated to a scaled score of 119.9, and a raw score of 120 translated to a scaled score of 135.4.

The size of the scaling decreases as your raw score increases (for example in 2011, 21.9 points for 100, and 17.5 points for 120).

The PA examiners are not as forthcoming with scaling information, but based on scaling for the past two years, a conservative estimate puts the essay exam scaling in the 55-60 point range. These points are simply added to your raw score. So for the essay exam, a raw score of 75 (out of 150 total raw points) is going to be scaled to around 130 to 135.

3) Weighting the exam, and getting to 272 -- The PA essay exam is worth 55% of your total score, and the MBE is 45%. To achieve this, your scaled essay score is multiplied by 1.1, and your scaled MBE score is multiplied by 0.9, and the two figures that result are added together. Let's take two example scores from above.

Scaled MBE score of 121.9 (100/190 raw on July 2011): 121.9 x .9 = 109.71
Scaled PA essay score of 135 (75/150 raw with estimate of 60 pts scaled): 148.5

148.5 + 109.71 = 258.21 (DOES NOT PASS)

So roughly 50% raw for each section was not enough to pass. But let's keep the original essay score and instead give this student the 120/190 scaled score from July 2011, or 137.5 total, and weight it:

Scaled MBE score of 137.5 x .9 = 123.75

Add 123.75 to the 148.5 essay score, and the applicant is now at 272.25 (PASS)."

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mcweanis

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby mcweanis » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:22 pm

Thanks, just found it too. The reason I care is this is my second bar exam, so I already know how I performed on the MBE once, and hopefully did in the same range this time.

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby AnaMariana42 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:08 pm

Just got the email. 10/7 it is.

OnTheRise

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby OnTheRise » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:10 pm

Just got the email as well. It's real now...

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby AnaMariana42 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:14 pm

I will plan on being away from my office and probably at the gym at 4pm on Friday. at least then I'll have an outlet for my anger and aggression if I fail.

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VSCPGH

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby VSCPGH » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:17 pm

I could puke.

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bulinus

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby bulinus » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:26 pm

All it says is that results will be released after 4 pm. So all that is promised is that it will be before the end of time.

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VSCPGH

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby VSCPGH » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:27 pm

AnaMariana42 wrote:I will plan on being away from my office and probably at the gym at 4pm on Friday. at least then I'll have an outlet for my anger and aggression if I fail.


I'm working from home and we have "early dismissal" for a holiday... I may just go to a bar and start drinking.

spacecaps

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby spacecaps » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:23 pm

bulinus wrote:All it says is that results will be released after 4 pm. So all that is promised is that it will be before the end of time.


last year they were released at exactly 4 pm

ultravires4life

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby ultravires4life » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:31 pm

If any of you think about it, or have time, would you please update the spreadsheet whenever you receive your results? Several of us would appreciate it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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bulinus

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby bulinus » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:13 pm

spacecaps wrote:
bulinus wrote:All it says is that results will be released after 4 pm. So all that is promised is that it will be before the end of time.


last year they were released at exactly 4 pm


K dood. See you at the event horizon.

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VSCPGH

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby VSCPGH » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:19 am

spacecaps wrote:
bulinus wrote:All it says is that results will be released after 4 pm. So all that is promised is that it will be before the end of time.


last year they were released at exactly 4 pm


Yeah it happens fast right at 4. It's the worst 2 minutes of trying to find your name of your life.

Hoping for different results this time.

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Re: PA Bar Wait Group

Postby Fivedham » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:53 am

I thought I'd like the whole 48-hour heads up thing, but now that we're in it, it sucks so much. I'm going on the pass-fail roller coaster in cycles of like ten minutes. I think I failed, then I'm like, "Na man, you were scoring well in practice and the essays felt good. You're totally not in the bottom 20%." Then I'm back to pessimism a minute later.

I almost wish they'd just sent out a notice saying results were posted and rip the bandaid off. It sucks because they totally have the results ready right now, they're just waiting for Friday afternoon so they don't get deluged with calls. Like, come on examiners. You're gonna have a full voice mailbox on Monday anyway.

The next 36 hours are gonna be brutal. I'm debating whether or not to stay at work tomorrow or if I wanna be alone for results.



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