So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

ab115
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby ab115 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:32 pm

I'm deciding between Barbri and Themis for the NY/NJ bar. Anyone do the two (or, I suppose, another two state common combination) have any input? Or is the NJ bar an afterthought anyway?

I'm working on getting tuition assistance from Babri but even then it's more than double Themis. Buttttt I don't really want to gamble on a newer, smaller company. Barbri has ten times as many takers as Themis (at least in NY), and I'm not sure I want to be in the tinier sample group.

In sum: help!

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superflush
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby superflush » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:58 pm

ab115 wrote:In sum: help!


If I had to do it again, I'd do Themis.
It's very hard to study for two states at once (when one of them is NY). I'm not sure how state-specific NJ law is, but you likely won't have much time to dive into that. This means that you need to pass with a high MBE score. The best way to pass the MBE is to keep doing practice questions, and Themis seems to cover that. I think BarBri NY takes up too much time on the state-subjects, which may or may not be covered on the actual exam.

Codicil
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby Codicil » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:06 pm

ab115 wrote:I'm deciding between Barbri and Themis for the NY/NJ bar. Anyone do the two (or, I suppose, another two state common combination) have any input? Or is the NJ bar an afterthought anyway?
I have a number of friends who took and passed the NY and NJ bar exams in one sitting (some from July '12 and some from July '13). From what I recall, NJ only has two non-MBE subjects tested on the essays: Fed Jurisdiction and NJ Civ Pro. NY tests you on a lot of non-mbe subjects, including Fed. Jurisdiction and NY Civ Pro. I was told that you can completely bomb the NJ Civ Pro question and pass NJ. Most of my friends took BarBri for NY only and still passed NJ. Only one did the combined NY/NJ BarBri course and he said that NY Civ Pro is close enough to NJ that it won't matter if you don't learn the NJ rules.

The MBE only counts for 40% of the NY exam. I would be leery of a prep course that does not spend a lot of time on the state-specific subjects or the NY distinctions for the MBE subjects. You don't want to pass NJ at the cost of NY.

Geaux12
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby Geaux12 » Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:50 pm

I've been lead to believe these courses are negotiable - how should I approach the Kaplan rep to negotiate for the on-site course?

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BlueLotus
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:38 pm

2L here. Will not taking a lot of traditional "bar classes" in law school make bar prep especially hellish? When it comes to bar classes, so far I've only taken Family Law and Evidence in addition to obviously the traditional 1L fare. No plans to take Corps, and on the fence about Tax (although I probably should!) Loaded up on a lot of fluff classes this year because of the generous curves, lol. Wanna take T&E though.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:38 am

BlueLotus wrote:2L here. Will not taking a lot of traditional "bar classes" in law school make bar prep especially hellish? When it comes to bar classes, so far I've only taken Family Law and Evidence in addition to obviously the traditional 1L fare. No plans to take Corps, and on the fence about Tax (although I probably should!) Loaded up on a lot of fluff classes this year because of the generous curves, lol. Wanna take T&E though.

The only really traditional bar class I took in law school besides 1L was Evidence (required at my school anyway); if you stretch, you can add Admin and some advanced Con Law and Torts. I'm sure my Commercial Paper and Partnership essays were SPS, but I passed easily, and I'm sooooo glad I didn't spend any time in law school on those subjects.

Confession: yes, the topics I'd taken law school courses on were easier to (re)learn. But bar study sucks regardless of how well you know a topic.

(My state didn't test tax, so screw that.)

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Bikeflip
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:08 pm

Yeah, the only bar course I'd "recommend" you take for bar prep would be Evidence. However, you should take that anyways. Commercial Paper is SPS, and everyone and their mother's going to bomb that question if it appears on the bar.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:16 am

DAT THEMIS THO. i HIGHLY recommend it

sam9317
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby sam9317 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:01 pm

Hi, I am taking the NY Bar this July, and am preparing to self-study for it. Already got the BarBri books from 2013, and also the PMBR Multistate workbook for practicing the multiple choices.
My question concerns the essays portions, how do people here who have self-studied or will be self-studying treat the essays? Do you find a tutor or grades them, or another bar prep program which offers a separate essay program for a lower cost, or do you just practice and self-review your practice essays?

Thanks for any input.

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Entchen
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby Entchen » Sat May 03, 2014 4:11 pm

I took and passed the NY bar in February (used Barbri), and am planning to take a second bar (MA) in July. I feel pretty set on MBE stuff -- I have very good notes, flashcards, etc. from last time that I will review, but it seems wasteful to take another full course. Someone mentioned baroutlines.com above -- do y'all think just buying the Massachusetts materials from them would be sufficient? I'm nervous about the lack of practice essay questions -- I really liked Barbri's sample essay questions and answers when studying for NY.

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northwood
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby northwood » Sun May 04, 2014 9:42 am

where does one get the best deals on the PMBR multistate workbook? Ive looked on Amazon, and have only found workbooks from 2012. Ideally id get a copy of the 2014 book, but I'm sure a 2013 version would be fine.

jtx86
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby jtx86 » Tue May 06, 2014 12:12 am

I gotta give it up to Themis. Paid about $1,000 for the course and it was the best value I could have gotten for bar prep. What attracted me to Themis initially was that they actually publish their pass rates. If BarBri is so great, why don't they? Also, I met way too many people that used BarBri and failed. At least for NY, I highly recommend Themis. Stick to their schedule and complete at least 80% of the coursework. You will pass. I studied for 7 weeks and passed comfortably (148.7 MBE).

iiifly
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby iiifly » Wed May 07, 2014 9:27 pm

You'll be fine on any bar course. To pass the exam, you need to do three things:
-Monkey Read: Read your outlines, other materials (learn a bit)
-Monkey See/Hear: Take those lectures (you learn a bit more)
-Monkey Do: Do the questions! Essays and MBEs (you learn the most)

You'll know where you stand during bar prep based on how many points you get on the essays and your MBE performance.

IMHIPP
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby IMHIPP » Thu May 08, 2014 8:25 pm

Do whatever you did to prepare for tests in law school, just do more of it. The only difference from the other essay and multiple choice exams you've taken is that there's more material.

I prepared for most tests in law school by memorizing a 70-90 page outline in the couple of days before the test. For the bar, I started with the handouts Themis provided. When I came across rules that weren't in the handouts while doing MBE or MEE practice questions, which happened often, I wrote them in the handouts or pasted them into a separate Word document.

I quit that in early February and spent the next few weeks sitting on my couch and memorizing. At that point, I think I had done about 1,300 MBE questions and read the model answers for most of the MEE subjects. It's a waste of time typing your own answers for essay questions or doing MPTs. I got a 184 on the MBE, so I obviously could have gotten away with doing a lot less.

Again, whatever you did to memorize rules in law school, do that.

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Duchovnysfan
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby Duchovnysfan » Wed May 21, 2014 1:50 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:2L here. Will not taking a lot of traditional "bar classes" in law school make bar prep especially hellish? When it comes to bar classes, so far I've only taken Family Law and Evidence in addition to obviously the traditional 1L fare. No plans to take Corps, and on the fence about Tax (although I probably should!) Loaded up on a lot of fluff classes this year because of the generous curves, lol. Wanna take T&E though.

The only really traditional bar class I took in law school besides 1L was Evidence (required at my school anyway); if you stretch, you can add Admin and some advanced Con Law and Torts. I'm sure my Commercial Paper and Partnership essays were SPS, but I passed easily, and I'm sooooo glad I didn't spend any time in law school on those subjects.

Confession: yes, the topics I'd taken law school courses on were easier to (re)learn. But bar study sucks regardless of how well you know a topic.

(My state didn't test tax, so screw that.)


To add, July will be the last time on the MEE that Commercial Paper can be tested. So poof Article 3 will be gone soon enough!

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prezidentv8
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed May 21, 2014 2:09 am

Here just to say:

DAT THEMIS

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prezidentv8
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed May 21, 2014 2:11 am

See also

--LinkRemoved--

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Mr. Pink
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby Mr. Pink » Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:05 am

I paid ~$1,400 for the Kaplan CA course and they allowed me to do a payment plan. So far so good as far as the course goes. I had a little hiccup with getting the right books, but had it corrected well in advance of the start date. Also, I was allowed an "early start" where I began the course in mid May instead of waiting until the end of the month, which was crucial because I work 45-50 hours each week.

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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby dreakol » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:38 pm

Just wanted to give a heads up: doing baroutlines.com for Nevada and their state specific materials seemed to be lacking based off of reading model answers. For instance, one of the released model answers has Nevada as a "wait and see" state for RAP and that their time period is around 300+ years. There is no mention of this in the outline.

Also, the MBE question bank will repeat a lot. Did a 100 mixed practice test and ended up doing the same question around 5 times in that set. not to mention that most of the Qs were recycled from previous practice Qs that they have you do for specific subjects.

So, all in all, you might want to do some due diligence for state specific stuff and might need an additional source of MBE questions.

This might be because I'm taking Nevada and might be the first person using this for the state but just throwing it out there.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby BlueLotus » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:30 am

Thinking of saving some $$ and coppin' dat Themis. Thoughts? Themis takers had a 100% pass rate for my T30.

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sd5289
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby sd5289 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:45 am

BlueLotus wrote:Thinking of saving some $$ and coppin' dat Themis. Thoughts? Themis takers had a 100% pass rate for my T30.


I'm in the same boat (though the Themis pass rate for my school was in the high 90s, but still higher than Barbri). A friend of mine just told me how much her Barbri was going to be and I nearly had a heart attack.

drs36
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby drs36 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:48 am

I did Themis. Still awaiting results, but I'd strongly recommend them. Apply for the Public Interest Scholarship -- you do NOT need to have an interest in Public Interest work. This should save you $500. I think I paid a little over a grand.

As for your question about not taking traditional "Bar" classes in law school: I echo the above posters in saying that you should take Evidence. Other than that, there's not much need for other courses w/r/t the Bar. A whole semester's worth of a class is not worth it for a sub-part of a question unless you're really interested in the subject.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby BlueLotus » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:54 am

sd5289 wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Thinking of saving some $$ and coppin' dat Themis. Thoughts? Themis takers had a 100% pass rate for my T30.


I'm in the same boat (though the Themis pass rate for my school was in the high 90s, but still higher than Barbri). A friend of mine just told me how much her Barbri was going to be and I nearly had a heart attack.


How much did her Barbri cost?

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sd5289
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby sd5289 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:05 am

BlueLotus wrote:How much did her Barbri cost?


$3600. :shock:

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BlueLotus
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Re: So ya need a bar program: Barbri, Kaplan, Themis, Self, etc

Postby BlueLotus » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:21 am

sd5289 wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:How much did her Barbri cost?


$3600. :shock:


JFC. No discount for PI gunners?

I seriously think I may cop dat Themis and use the money saved for my Nepal trek. 8)




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