California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Fri May 02, 2014 3:05 pm

I'm waiting to board a plane. Maybe I won't even have to find out how I did!

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Fri May 02, 2014 8:51 pm

Ew I hate flying. Unless its in a tardis.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby Unagi » Sat May 03, 2014 1:20 pm

CourtneyElizabeth wrote:Yup - I took them, and it definitely helped me when reviewing. Less subjects I had to actually LEARN rather than just do an in depth review. I went to law school on the east coast and took the CA bar, so I had to learn Community Property, California Evidence, etc.


Thanks! Do you have any suggestions of other courses I should take that would be helpful for the bar?

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Sat May 03, 2014 7:53 pm

I took Kaplan but honestly I'm not a fan of it. Do som research and read reviews as to what programs get the best reviews and results. You don't has to go with one of the big ones like barbri or
Kaplan.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby Unagi » Sat May 03, 2014 8:07 pm

Sorry, I meant to say classes while still in law school (besides evidence, ucc and trusts).
I'm definitely signing up for a commercial bar course when the time comes.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Sat May 03, 2014 8:29 pm

Wills and Trusts, courses that cover UCC, any extra property courses offered? You'll be fine.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Sun May 04, 2014 2:39 am

Remedies

I'd like a burn heal

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Sun May 04, 2014 9:07 am

Omfg remedies.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby MURPH » Sun May 04, 2014 3:50 pm

Take any law school bar classes you can if your goal is to make summer studying easier. But be aware that it is a huge waste of time and a risk. Reading cases is a waste. So if you are going to spend your 3L year prepping for the bar, you'll be giving up the last chance you have to study areas that your school specializes in or that you find interesting - art law, maritime law, or some bullshit class. The risk is that you'll get a complete asshole for a professor who teaches off of the outline he created in the 90s and just chooses not to cover vast sections of the law which will be on the bar.

For unagi and anyone else who cares what I think about bar prep courses:
I found the best way for me to study was to just do essays. Just go on the Cal Bar web site and start doing old essays.
For about $120 you can sign up to baressays.com and get the long outlines and the short one page outlines. Plus you get every question asked in the last 10+ years with graded answers so you can compare your answer to a failing grade, a marginal grade and an excellent grade (all by students who failed).
Do every question from the last 10 years over the course of the summer.

Do a lot of PTs. PTs are difficult to teach and take a long time to grade so the prep companies do not commit adequate time to them. My friends who took the July bar prep courses did not start doing PTs until three weeks before the exam. That is foolish. Do at least two a week all summer. They take a long time to do and to analyze so two of them will take a full 8-10 hour day to do correctly. It is really slow and painful to improve in PTs - look back at our discussions on earlier pages - the bar finds the most creative ways to fuck us on these PTs. If you haven't done a dozen of these before the bar you will end up writing a load of disorganized shit for 2 and half hours before you figure out what the question is all about.

Get the $99 BarMax app. It has over 1,000 real MBE questions with a lot of explanations and you can organize it by topics. Do at least 25 per day and do 200 on a couple of days.

Over the course of the summer work on this the way the Pithypike thread taught us to work on the LSAT. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41657 First concentrate on Accuracy (getting the format correct, getting all the issues). Then later on Speed (60 minutes or 3 hours). Lastly, in the last two weeks if at all, work on Endurance (work nonstop in 3 hour blocks).

Finally and most importantly, follow an organized plan for every essay. 2807 told us about writing strong Issue statements instead of the crap we learned in law school on page 5 or 6 of this thread. It really changed the way I write dramatically. For every issue on every question I wrote 4 paragraphs. The first began with "Issue #1: Whether...". The second paragraph begins with "The rule under XXX law is ...". The third paragraph began with "Here..." and the last paragraph began with "Therefore,..." . I would just write out the first few words of each paragraph and copy and paste it six to eight times for each essay. Then fill IRAC into the paragraphs. (adjust slightly for things like rule splits where you'll need to choose the right rule and write a short counter argument.)


That is it. Spend under $250. And you won't waste time listening to lectures, writing outlines, answering poorly written copyrighted questions that do not reflect the bar examiners' style. Plus you do not have to listen to a business that profits from convincing you that you are going to fail and that they are your only lifeline. You can do this on your own, with support on TLS and from your friends.
Last edited by MURPH on Sun May 04, 2014 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby 2807 » Sun May 04, 2014 4:20 pm

MURPH wrote:Take any law school bar classes as you can if your goal is to make summer studying easier. But be aware that it is a huge waste of time and a risk. Reading cases is a waste. So if you are going to spend your 3L year prepping for the bar, you'll be giving up the last chance you have to study areas that your school specializes in or that you find interesting - art law, maritime law, or some bullshit class. The risk is that you'll get a complete asshole for a professor who teaches off of the outline he created in the 90s and just chooses not to cover vast sections of the law which will be on the bar.

For unagi and anyone else who cares what I think about bar prep courses:
I found the best way for me to study was to just do essays. Just go on the Cal Bar web site and start doing old essays.
For about $120 you can sign up to baressays.com and get the long outlines and the short one page outlines. Plus you get every question asked in the last 10+ years with graded answers so you can compare your answer to a failing grade, a marginal grade and an excellent grade (all by students who failed).
Do every question from the last 10 years over the course of the summer.

Do a lot of PTs. PTs are difficult to teach and take a long time to grade so the prep companies do not commit adequate time to them. My friends who took the July bar prep courses did not start doing PTs until three weeks before the exam. That is foolish. Do at least two a week all summer. They take a long time to do and to analyze so two of them will take a full 8-10 hour day to do correctly. It is really slow and painful to improve in PTs - look back at our discussions on earlier pages - the bar finds the most creative ways to fuck us on these PTs. If you haven't done a dozen of these before the bar you will end up writing a load of disorganized shit for 2 and half hours before you figure out what the question is all about.

Get the $99 BarMax app. It has over 1,000 real MBE questions with a lot of explanations and you can organize it by topics. Do at least 25 per day and do 200 on a couple of days.

Over the course of the summer work on this the way the Pithypike thread taught us to work on the LSAT. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41657 First concentrate on Accuracy (getting the format correct, getting all the issues). Then later on Speed (60 minutes or 3 hours). Lastly, in the last two weeks if at all, work on Endurance (work nonstop in 3 hour blocks).

Finally and most importantly, follow an organized plan for every essay. 2807 told us about writing strong Issue statements instead of the crap we learned in law school on page 5 or 6 of this thread. It really changed the way I write dramatically. For every issue on every question I wrote 4 paragraphs. The first began with "Issue #1: Whether...". The second paragraph begins with "The rule under XXX law is ...". The third paragraph began with "Here..." and the last paragraph began with "Therefore,..." . I would just write out the first few words of each paragraph and copy and paste it six to eight times for each essay. Then fill IRAC into the paragraphs. (adjust slightly for things like rule splits where you'll need to choose the right rule and write a short counter argument.)


That is it. Spend under $250. And you won't waste time listening to lectures, writing outlines, answering poorly written copyrighted questions that do not reflect the bar examiners' style. Plus you do not have to listen to a business that profits from convincing you that you are going to fail and that they are your only lifeline. You can do this on your own, with support on TLS and from your friends.


Oh Murph... you had me at "Take any..."
Good luck to you buddy.
I feel you are about to have a very happy summer....

Glad you saw the light, and realized how to write the way they want (or should I say need!)

This stuff is frustrating because merely knowing the material is NOT enough.
You have to know how to present it.

Now, starting tomorrow, this will be your last full week of waiting !
GOOD LUCK EVERYBODY !

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Mon May 05, 2014 12:41 am

May the Fourth be with you guys.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Mon May 05, 2014 2:02 am

The BarEssays outlines suck btw. They're cryptic and useless for putting down rule statements on an essay when you're practicing, unless you're already familiar with the rules. I recommend getting decent outlines like Lean Sheets or making your own materials (flashcards, outlines, etc.), as long as making/reading them is not taking up more than 50% of your practice time. I found that making outlines helped me solidify the rules, requiring less of my essay writing time flipping back and forth between Barbri tomes et al. Adjust the % based on how good you are at memorizing (but practice should ideally be 50-67% of your time spent).

I'm actually curious what others think regarding this. Does anyone think otherwise?

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Mon May 05, 2014 4:16 am

67%? That is awfully specific. I suggest the critical pass flash cards. They have all the MBE subjects and the cards are big enough to make your own little notes on but not so big that you can't use them ya know? Check em out.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Mon May 05, 2014 8:31 am

Just rounded up using two-thirds as a general estimate.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby Unagi » Mon May 05, 2014 9:49 am

Thanks for all the advice guys! I appreciate it!

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby MURPH » Tue May 06, 2014 4:33 am

I found that the best way to memorize rules is to get them wrong on a practice essay, then feel stupid for a little bit and tell myself I am going to fail. Then I pull my shit together and do that issue over correctly. From then on I do not forget the rule.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Tue May 06, 2014 12:50 pm

I'm officially losing my mind. can't focus on work anymore.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby Performance Test A » Tue May 06, 2014 1:11 pm

MURPH wrote:I found that the best way to memorize rules is to get them wrong on a practice essay, then feel stupid for a little bit and tell myself I am going to fail. Then I pull my shit together and do that issue over correctly. From then on I do not forget the rule.


Completely agree. At some point during my prep I started to embrace my practice essay failures and even welcome them, because I knew the correct rules would stick with me (for the most part) after that.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Tue May 06, 2014 1:12 pm

10 days. I really don't think I was this anxious the first time around.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby rickter » Wed May 07, 2014 6:22 pm

Unagi wrote:Sorry, I meant to say classes while still in law school (besides evidence, ucc and trusts).
I'm definitely signing up for a commercial bar course when the time comes.

I agree with pretty much everything Murph said. Commercial bar prep is outrageously expensive, and I self-studied for the exam because I did not see a $3,000 - $4,000 value in what they offer.

In nine days I'll know whether I passed, but regardless of the result I will not regret relying on myself as opposed to having BarBri bore me to death with video lectures, especially considering the fact that the Conviser Mini-Review (the alleged Bible for basically every bar exam) barely even touched many of the issues upon which several of the essays turned.

A few Ed McMahon-esque "YES!" comments follow some choice Murph quotes below:

MURPH wrote:Take any law school bar classes you can if your goal is to [give] up the last chance you have to study areas that your school specializes in or that you find interesting - art law, maritime law, or some bullshit class.

For real. Some of my favorite classes from school were weird classes like animal law and great jurists. Also, I took remedies my last semester of school because I liked the professor, and I remembered exactly zero about it when I started studying for the bar like 6 months later.

MURPH wrote:I found the best way for me to study was to just do essays. Just go on the Cal Bar web site and start doing old essays.
For about $120 you can sign up to baressays.com and get the long outlines and the short one page outlines. Plus you get every question asked in the last 10+ years with graded answers so you can compare your answer to a failing grade, a marginal grade and an excellent grade (all by students who failed).
Do every question from the last 10 years over the course of the summer.

I did not sign up for bar essays, but if I had (have ?) to do it again I definitely would. Other than the sample answers on the calbar site, I had nothing against which I could judge my answers.

MURPH wrote:Do a lot of PTs. PTs are difficult to teach and take a long time to grade so the prep companies do not commit adequate time to them.

I only did a few PTs, I don't think that hurt me very much, but it is sort of a gimme area, where if you set a schedule and stick to it, you can write something pretty decent in the limited time they give. I should have done more of these if for no other reason than to get my reading, organizing, and writing times down to habit-level automation.

MURPH wrote:Get the $99 BarMax app. It has over 1,000 real MBE questions with a lot of explanations and you can organize it by topics. Do at least 25 per day and do 200 on a couple of days.

I found the questions on test-day to be different from but very similar to the Bar Max questions, which are all at least a few years old. The actual questions were generally more straightforward and simple than the Bar Max questions, which seem to have a different style of... I guess prose is the closest word I can think of.

In any event, I found the Bar Max questions about a million times better than the few Kaplan questions I worked through.

MURPH wrote:Finally and most importantly, follow an organized plan for every essay. 2807 told us about writing strong Issue statements instead of the crap we learned in law school on page 5 or 6 of this thread. It really changed the way I write dramatically. For every issue on every question I wrote 4 paragraphs. The first began with "Issue #1: Whether...". The second paragraph begins with "The rule under XXX law is ...". The third paragraph began with "Here..." and the last paragraph began with "Therefore,..." . I would just write out the first few words of each paragraph and copy and paste it six to eight times for each essay. Then fill IRAC into the paragraphs. (adjust slightly for things like rule splits where you'll need to choose the right rule and write a short counter argument.)

Again, regardless of whether I passed, this was the single biggest help to me when working on essays. Having a simple, effective and repeatable structure made time management so much easier, and made the essays seem like fill in the blank mad-libs as opposed to just a daunting blank white space to be filled in.

MURPH wrote:That is it. Spend under $250. And you won't waste time listening to lectures, writing outlines, answering poorly written copyrighted questions that do not reflect the bar examiners' style. Plus you do not have to listen to a business that profits from convincing you that you are going to fail and that they are your only lifeline. You can do this on your own, with support on TLS and from your friends.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby MURPH » Wed May 07, 2014 8:05 pm

>>>Get the $99 BarMax app. It has over 1,000 real MBE questions with a lot of explanations and you can organize it by topics. Do at least 25 per day and do 200 on a couple of days.

>>I found the questions on test-day to be different from but very similar to the Bar Max questions, which are all at least a few years old. The actual questions were generally more straightforward and simple than the Bar Max questions, which seem to have a different style of... I guess prose is the closest word I can think of.

>>In any event, I found the Bar Max questions about a million times better than the few Kaplan questions I worked through.


the MBE has eliminated the multiple question fact scenarios in favor of asking more ridiculous recording acts/mortgage and obscure Con Law questions.they got rid of the Roman Numeral type questions where the stem of the question would end with something like D can be charged with I. Larceny II. Robbery III. Attempted Larceny IV. Attempted Robbery and then the answers are a. I and III b. I, and II c. I and IV d. IV only

They made a lot of changes in 2009, also eliminating the none of the above or all of the above questions and decreasing the quotes too.
Here is a link to an NCBE magazine confirming this: --LinkRemoved-- ... onahue.pdf


The NCBE website has 4 practice MBEs for sale at about $50 each. The two most recent ones have all of the newer, simplified question style. I tokk these in the last few weeks before the Feb bar and they boosted my confidence. I think it is possible for you to split the costs by having one person purchase it, then sharing the password and letting multiple people take the same exam, if you don't mind letting others see your score.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Thu May 08, 2014 1:18 pm

Will our profile update before the results? https://sbc.calbar.ca.gov/default.aspx

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Thu May 08, 2014 1:34 pm

a male human wrote:Will our profile update before the results? https://sbc.calbar.ca.gov/default.aspx


The answer is either "no" or "I failed the bar again."
-Requirement not satisfied.-

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Thu May 08, 2014 2:54 pm

It's probably a no for now then.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Thu May 08, 2014 10:49 pm

Do they typically do that? Update the requirements before results??




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