California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

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fl0w
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:28 am

1swift wrote:
fl0w wrote:
a male human wrote:Thanks MURPH. I'm supposed to get my first project soon. Glad you were able to secure a source of income. It's ridiculous how hard (less so if it's a non-lawyer job) it is to find something that pays more than the already paltry sum I was paid before law school. Is it ethical to knowingly allow or encourage someone to apply to law school? I feel doing so would be malicious, kind of like the State Bar. An acquaintance told me she was thinking of going to law school, and I merely offered her to help with any advice she might need. I felt bad for not discouraging it.

Oh, I had a dream that I failed the bar because I didn't make the cut in the MBE. I actually believed it for a while until I realized it was really a fabrication of my mind.


i tell everyone i know that going to law school is the worst idea. i tell people currently there to drop out. i tell people graduating to get out of the profession immediately.


Not sure if 100% serious or not but I feel thats a bit unfair. This is clearly not a great time, we're all in this grey area and even those that did pass in July and years before it's not great but there is opportunity and reason to believe things can and will get better.

I don't sugercoat or outwardly encourage anyone to go to law school or continue it, I tell them how things are that I had no clue about but I do that so they have a more informed decision not because I believe they shouldn't go to law school if they want to,.


hyperbole on my part? slightly. but it is basically the message i give people. I was in consulting in my career prior to law school and when the economy exploded in everyone's face in 2008 things were forever changed. from a corporate context, client firms finally realized that the service industry is basically a scam and there is no way they should have to pay so much for said services. The comparisons between different consulting fields and law are direct because while the subject matter of the work is different, it really is the same thing.

"biglaw" was slightly more insulated because it truly is a necessary evil to most companies. but they realized they had more power to drive their legal services instead of letting biglaw dictate the terms. add all of this to the brain drain occurring in law schools since 2010-ish. newly minted graduates found no opportunity because of an excess supply of bodies when bliglaw needed to cull the heard. so the "smart bet" became not going to law school at all. The best and brightest are finally realizing that it is better and brighter to seek success elsewhere. Small firms are in a prime place to scoop up the scraps of best talent, so good for them.

"public service" just became incredibly scary (moreso) as well. If you didn't want to work for "the man" and wanted to be the peoples' champion, well now the whole loan forgiveness aspect is in critical jeopardy with the change in legislation. So you'll never be able to repay your loans. Oh, also there are basically no government jobs. The hiring freeze very recently started being lifted but departments are still struggling to find finding for positions.

So is law school a good idea? No. As always, I think being an engineer is really the ticket to true security. I happen to be both, and that has afforded me the ability to have a desirable skill set for patent litigation and allowed me to be employed in biglaw. I'm very lucky in that regard and this was not my original plan by any means.

If you can get out of the profession, should you? Yes. It's going to shit. Lawyers are typically the most unhappy in terms of job satisfaction. The ability to secure pay that is adequate to justify the pain and to pay back your loans is sharply declining. Again, i'm lucky that i actually find my work interesting and don't want to kill myself daily. But this is because I'm an engineer first and I enjoy the aspect of reading and arguing about patents in the tech arena. It's not necessary the legal part that gets my rocks off. Many of my colleagues, while they feel fortunate to be in their position, just don't like what they have to do in order to maintain it.

Also everyone I know that was able to free themselves of the belief that "things will get better" in this industry and went on to do something unrelated are infinitely happier. Sure it might be anecdotal, but it is still very real.

TLDR; am I really being that unfair? I don't think so. The profession is in sharp decline, everyone (including themselves) hates lawyers anyway, job security is gone, loan forgiveness is gone next, and I'll be damned if the "160k" mark isn't the subsequent thing to slide in biglaw.

MBAtoJD
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby MBAtoJD » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:40 pm

I . Will. Not. Waste. My. First. Ever. Post. To. Ask. Why. People. Talked. About. Warranty of Fitness. For. Remedies Q6.

Sale of house isn't under UCC/sale of goods, right? A house isn't moveable...well, unless its a mobile home.

I memorized Conviser, so the Tort (not Contracts) claims I put were: Intentional misrep (fraud/deceit), negligent misrep and I threw in IIED. Yeah... IIED was a long shot (maybe even a non-issue) but I kinda thought I could use that claim to argue punitive damages. Lying on the sale of a house can be extreme & outrageous....transcends all bounds of decency. Can I get a hell ya?!?! No? Fuck you if you disagree with me! :twisted:

Aahhh...now, that I've got that off my chest, I'll log off & sign back on on May 16th. :roll:

GOSH... I hate having Bar result nightmare and waking up in sweat. :cry:

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:38 am

I have no clue what the right approach to Q6 was. But IIED does not seem at issue, at least to me.

I did, however, realize yesterday that call 2 to the civ pro question (the one that was seemingly the same as call 1) could have benefited from a quick discussion of res judicata and collateral estoppel. I did some research and found that an appeal does not count as a final determination on its merits, so if you raised RJ and CE and said they doesn't apply on appeal, then you probably got some easy bonus points. HOPEFULLY they were mere bonus points for a minor issue because I also had no clue how to answer that call.

Lighter-hearted story: My boss at my part-time job (this is separate from the contractor job) asked me to go over his damn building lease for parts that were "unfavorable" to him. I'd originally come in to talk about actual work that needed to be done, and I ended up leaving at 8 PM very hungry. Anyway, I saw some familiar terms like fixtures, liquidated damages (without any specified damage amount--so I flagged that), and even mortgages. In the end, it seemed like a typical lease agreement, but he asked me to write up questions for the management about almost every clause that did not benefit him. I don't get paid enough for this shit. I've drafted a couple other mails before too. He's not very good at writing, it seems. He also likes to interrupt and talk over me, so I get to practice a lot of active listening when I'm not tired from paying attention for 3 hours. Oh man oh god I can't wait to get out of that place (def if I pass in May) even though he is a nice person otherwise.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby MBAtoJD » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:17 am

My Q6 approach was:

1. The issue is what tort & K remedies may Pat...against Carol...

To determine the applicable remedies that Pat can obtain, an analysis of the possible claims that may be raised must be established.

Tort Claims
- intentional misrep
- neg misrep
- IIED (I doubt they'll buy my argument here)

Tort Remedies
- Compensatory (certain, definite, foreseeable, mitigation)
- Punitive
- Equitable lien
- Constructive Trust

Contract Claim
- Breach of K (unenforceable due to fraud in the formation).

Contract Remedies
- Compensatory
- Consequential
- Incidential
- Rescission
- Specific Performance (not applicable since legal damages adequate)

2. The issue is what tort & K remedies may Pat...against Mike

(Same format as above and a lot of "see above", "similar to Carol...").

I did emphasize Mike's role as a real estate broker & not disclosing he & Carol were cousins. Used some of my real estate broker knowledge that looking back, my have hurt me.

I know...I know....I was supposed to log off. STARTING NOW!

patent_lawyer
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby patent_lawyer » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:48 pm

MBAtoJD wrote:My Q6 approach was:

1. The issue is what tort & K remedies may Pat...against Carol...

To determine the applicable remedies that Pat can obtain, an analysis of the possible claims that may be raised must be established.

Tort Claims
- intentional misrep
- neg misrep
- IIED (I doubt they'll buy my argument here)

Tort Remedies
- Compensatory (certain, definite, foreseeable, mitigation)
- Punitive
- Equitable lien
- Constructive Trust

Contract Claim
- Breach of K (unenforceable due to fraud in the formation).

Contract Remedies
- Compensatory
- Consequential
- Incidential
- Rescission
- Specific Performance (not applicable since legal damages adequate)

2. The issue is what tort & K remedies may Pat...against Mike

(Same format as above and a lot of "see above", "similar to Carol...").

I did emphasize Mike's role as a real estate broker & not disclosing he & Carol were cousins. Used some of my real estate broker knowledge that looking back, my have hurt me.

I know...I know....I was supposed to log off. STARTING NOW!


Looks thorough...but also looks like an outline dump. Not sure if the facts justified raising IIED or SS.

I know I missed some minor issues but my Q6 looked something like this:

*Mandatory Disclosure (seller/broker duty)
*Fraud/Misrepresentation

*Legal Damages
- Compensatory
- Punitive

*Equitable Remedies
- Constructive Trust
- Equitable Lien

*Defenses
- Laches

This outline is applicable to both Seller and Broker.

CourtneyElizabeth
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:58 pm

I'm not reading those. It's over. For now.
Now I just need a jooobbbb….

siaynoqq
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby siaynoqq » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:38 am

Many people (including myself) interpreted Q6 as a pure remedies question. It stipulated that tort and k liability had been established at trial. It would seem odd, then, to say available remedies will depend on whether a tort or breach of k was committed. Also, there were just far too many remedies to discuss for the question to also require an analysis of the claims that could have been brought.

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fl0w
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:19 pm

siaynoqq wrote:Many people (including myself) interpreted Q6 as a pure remedies question. It stipulated that tort and k liability had been established at trial. It would seem odd, then, to say available remedies will depend on whether a tort or breach of k was committed. Also, there were just far too many remedies to discuss for the question to also require an analysis of the claims that could have been brought.


the problem with a pure remedies question is that if there is no cause of action, there is no available remedy. So you have to at least state some cause of action in your response or your answer can be deemed non-responsive. Every sample answer for every pure remedies question back to like 1998 discussed causes of action in the response. But I was just trying to do what the "model answers" indicated i should do to get passing marks. Obviously I'm not the authority.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:43 pm

I also think there were way too many remedial options with too few facts. Felt like a big horserace question to me. Great one to have as the last question. I saved it for last deliberately because I knew it would be my weakest one like comm prop.

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fl0w
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:47 pm

a male human wrote:I also think there were way too many remedial options with too few facts. Felt like a big horserace question to me. Great one to have as the last question. I saved it for last deliberately because I knew it would be my weakest one like comm prop.


haha.. i save it for last because... it was last. this time when i took it i made a point not to look ahead and just tried to deal with the next question that was in front of me. last time i remember having small reactions to seeing the subject area of each question before starting any of them.

bleh.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:22 pm

fl0w wrote:
a male human wrote:I also think there were way too many remedial options with too few facts. Felt like a big horserace question to me. Great one to have as the last question. I saved it for last deliberately because I knew it would be my weakest one like comm prop.


haha.. i save it for last because... it was last. this time when i took it i made a point not to look ahead and just tried to deal with the next question that was in front of me. last time i remember having small reactions to seeing the subject area of each question before starting any of them.

bleh.

Haha I did that last time and thought I should change my tactics. Bleh for sure either way though.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:37 pm

Suddenly had flashbacks to "I thought of it, so why didn't I mention that issue" moments

Feels bad man

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:33 pm

Really starting to go crazy. This whole no job thing is making me NUTS.

alejandro10
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby alejandro10 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:05 pm

Hi, everyone. I will be taking the July 2014 Cal Bar, and I wanted to know what were the essay subjects covered for the February 2014 exam. I know it's not an exact science to try to predict the subjects, but I wanted to get a better feel for the pattern when compared with the exams from 2012 and 2013. Thank you in advance.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:32 am

alejandro10 wrote:Hi, everyone. I will be taking the July 2014 Cal Bar, and I wanted to know what were the essay subjects covered for the February 2014 exam. I know it's not an exact science to try to predict the subjects, but I wanted to get a better feel for the pattern when compared with the exams from 2012 and 2013. Thank you in advance.

Prof resp
Comm prop
Civ pro
Real prop
Con law
Remedies (torts, contracts)

CourtneyElizabeth
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:35 am

Aka STRAIGHT GARBAGE!

LegalReality
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby LegalReality » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:43 pm

a male human wrote:
alejandro10 wrote:Hi, everyone. I will be taking the July 2014 Cal Bar, and I wanted to know what were the essay subjects covered for the February 2014 exam. I know it's not an exact science to try to predict the subjects, but I wanted to get a better feel for the pattern when compared with the exams from 2012 and 2013. Thank you in advance.

Prof resp
Comm prop
Civ pro
Real prop
Con law
Remedies (torts, contracts)


Unfortunately the only way to be properly prepared for the essays is to memorize every single line of all 1000 pages of the CMR. Anything less and you are fucked like on February. To illustrate what bullshit the test was:

PR: CMR was 25 or so pages on topic, test was on topic which was covered on 1 page and which most expert predictors agreed was unlikely to test.

Comm Prop: All the experts were certain based on the patterns it would not show up. Surprise!

Civ Pro: CMR was I think around 60 pages on the topic. Half the question tested a topic covered by literally 4 sentences that covered 1/4th of the page.

Real Prop: CMR was 80 pages. 1/3 was a topic covered by 4 sentences on a quarter of a page. 1/3rd was a topic covered by 1 sentence of the 80 page outline. 1/3rd was on a common topic but with twists that were not covered by barbri.

ConLaw: CMR was I think 50 pages. Topic tested was covered on maybe 2 pages. The dispositive caselaw to answer this question was not covered by Barbri whatsoever.

Remedies: Just a bizarre question which was a horserace to put as much shit down as possible.

TLDR: You need to know absolutely every sentence of Barbri and even then ur still probably not going to know 50% of the answers.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:54 pm

Well, here's hoping the obscure topics are not as heavily weighted in scoring.

alejandro10
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby alejandro10 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:41 pm

a male human wrote:
alejandro10 wrote:Hi, everyone. I will be taking the July 2014 Cal Bar, and I wanted to know what were the essay subjects covered for the February 2014 exam. I know it's not an exact science to try to predict the subjects, but I wanted to get a better feel for the pattern when compared with the exams from 2012 and 2013. Thank you in advance.

Prof resp
Comm prop
Civ pro
Real prop
Con law
Remedies (torts, contracts)

Thank you for the info. Now that I see this, I have a feeling Evidence is coming up.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby shemeshka » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:40 pm

Evidence was in the performance test B.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:41 pm

shemeshka wrote:Evidence was in the performance test B.

In July as well :(

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:16 pm


CourtneyElizabeth
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:21 pm

I want to look but I'm quite scared to. It's not going to change anything and it will just upset me more than anything.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby MURPH » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:44 pm

I am with Courtney, What good will it do to look at them now? If I passed it doesn't matter and if I failed then I may not even bother to take it again.

I was just going over some old emails trying o find something I lost 3 years ago. Looking at the emails from 1L reminded me how miserable I was then and how much i hated law school. People told me 2L and 3L would be better. I wish I had dropped out. This whole experience has been such a disaster. certainly the biggest mistake of my life was going to law school.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:07 pm

Oh yeah, I don't plan on reading them either. It was just for reference and FYI.




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