California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

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a male human
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:16 am

RP: I thought negligence was a smaller issue. I did quick checkoffs of duty, etc. but not more than a few sentences for each part of negligence. It's one element out of a theory under one call of the whole essay. No mention of defenses to negligence (I should have), trespass, or nuisance either. They seem like non-issues or minor issues even considering them now.

Just give me at least 60-65s all around please (55 on comm prop would be fine). Don't tell me I didn't improve since July.

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Lasers
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby Lasers » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:34 pm

get it to x wrote:
fl0w wrote:
Lasers wrote:congrats everyone! must feel good to be done with the bar...

i just wanted to ask if you guys had any opinion on barbri v. kaplan now that you have been through it all? i would like the structure of a commercial prep course and i just want to make sure i can rely on the accuracy and (relative) helpfulness of the materials they give me. ideally, i would like to take kaplan because it's significantly cheaper, but price is secondary to me passing the first time.


i think the commercial prep courses are crap. scare tactics to get your money. "be bar-bri ready." sure buddy, whatever.
Like I said before, I highly recommend getting a good tutor. Trust me, a good one will give you far more structure than a commercial prep course. If you want a recommendation let me know.

I did commercial course the first time and took the bar and felt like i was very unprepared, watching all of the lectures is a huge time-sink and isn't needed to pass the bar, and didn't understand how things were tested. my tutor really opened my eyes to the method of the bar exam.


Agreed. I can speak to BarBri alone for the MBE and warn you about what you are getting/not getting.

One of the best posts I saw on here was that the MBE was a mile wide and about an inch deep. That's true for the most part. The NCBE has an entire body of law at its disposal to test you on, but objectively does not drill down very deep in any topic area. That's why studying for the bar is probably one of the most nerve-wracking portions of your professional career - you can never be fully prepared because they've got you outnumbered based on the sheer scope they can test from.

The problem with BarBri, and I will venture to say the other test preparation companies, is that if the bar is a mile wide, their subject matter outlines cover maybe 3/4's of that mile. The other 1/4 is subject material that objectively is not very difficult if you knew the law, but because you don't you either have to try to reason your way through it (which sometimes can be done) or blindly guess (this happens more than maybe TLS posters would be willing to outright admit). That's why if you search the forums you will see posts like "holy hell, who saw 6 questions on Native American sovereignty?" It makes it infinitely harder to get the question right, if you have no idea what the law is. However, in test taker's general defense, we don't know how many of those questions get factored into the curve and ultimately never impact our score. But when you combine it with the fact that the NCBE asks some really hard questions on subject material covered in the outlines along with some rules you misapply or just forget because you probably are sleep-deprived and cannot apply everything correctly under the time constraints, the wrong answers do add up.

BarBri needs to update their materials. I do not know if they are waiting until Federal Civil Procedure gets implemented next February or if they will just add in questions and keep the outlines the same, but there is a disconnect between the current Conviser Mini Review (which should be your main study tool no matter what they say about how effective the lectures are) and the MBE's emphasis on the subject material. Maybe their approach worked four years ago regarding how specific topics were tested, but it's not working now. I understand and accept that bar preparation courses are reactive, but I do fault BarBri for not adapting quickly enough. Their job is to study the bar trends and react accordingly or they are doing their students an extreme disservice with so much on the line after paying them thousands of dollars. That's leaving bar takers to, in my opinion, rely too extensively on the curve to push them over the line.

As far as the multitude of questions that BarBri provides...I think BarBri does an excellent job of preparing you for the test if that test was prepared by BarBri test-takers. There is a substantial difference between the formatting and approach of MBE questions and BarBri's. I found purchasing the released questions on either the NCBE website or Emmanuel's book do not provide an accurate assessment of the difficulty of the current MBE. So BarBri makes you BarBri ready, but not necessarily MBE ready.

thank you for that breakdown of barbri.

has anyone taken themis or does anyone have an opinion of it?

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:45 am

I haven't taken it, but I don't have the best impression of Themis. Did you see my post about BB vs. Kaplan?

I keep thinking of the potential things I could have written, and it's driving me nuts (arrr). But at least no nightmares.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:44 pm

I had Kaplan. They waste a lot of your time with videos.

No nightmares here either. I actually forget about it sometimes!

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby MURPH » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:21 am

Every night at around 7 pm someone from my school calls and asks me to donate. At first i thought id tell them to take me off the list. But now i am having fun convincing the undergrad callers not to go to law school and bad mouthing the school generally. This is going to be A long 10 week wait for results. I am glad i found a new hobby

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:40 am

MURPH wrote:Every night at around 7 pm someone from my school calls and asks me to donate. At first i thought id tell them to take me off the list. But now i am having fun convincing the undergrad callers not to go to law school and bad mouthing the school generally. This is going to be A long 10 week wait for results. I am glad i found a new hobby

Image
a male human likes this.

chass
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby chass » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:59 pm

Which essays were more difficult overall, July 2013 or Feb 2014?

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:13 pm

July: Hard essays, insane PTs
Feb: Harder essays (because of focus on minor areas like prosecutor duties, appeals, goodwill, nonconforming use, variances, and because of specific calls), easier PTs


BTW, seeking immediate unrelated advice:
I had an interview yesterday morning, and things looked fairly good. I asked a lot of questions, and the interviewer seemed interested in me too. He used language that suggested I would be hired. For example, we discussed pay, possible services I could provide in the future when the company expands, that he'll send over a contract, that he would like my Skype handle, etc.

Of course, I never know what awkward things I could have said to make them change their intentions. It happens when I get too nervous or comfortable with the person. I got nervous when an associate joined us near the end, and I trailed my voice a bit sometimes and also added unnecessary things to the conversation because I'm an autistic weirdo. Last time I had a promising interview, I got a rejection letter postmarked the next business day even though I felt like I got the job. I don't want this to be a repeat.

Should I call at some point asking for a timeline (since I forgot to ask during yesterday's interview)? The waiting game makes me too anxious. I want to call like now to ask about that contract he said he'd send. I think the earliest I'll call is this Friday.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby MURPH » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:46 pm

amh,
Send a thank you note. Wait until you are sure they got the thank you note before you call.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:51 pm

MURPH wrote:amh,
Send a thank you note. Wait until you are sure they got the thank you note before you call.


personally i think had-thank you notes are weird and antiquated. Everyone does emails these days.
I'd give thank you e-mail and in the email ask about timing. If you don't hear within a week of the email, then call to follow-up.

But that's me.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:34 pm

Sorry, it is already a moot issue. Got the offer contract in the email. It's for some contract/project-basis work, for now, at a boutique company (bar card not required and not a law firm technically but does basically what I want to do as an attorney). All that anxiety for nothing!

But I had sent a nice thank you email within a couple hours of the interview, and I did not think to ask about the timeline until later, when I got worried about the silence.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:02 am

a male human wrote:Sorry, it is already a moot issue. Got the offer contract in the email. It's for some contract/project-basis work, for now, at a boutique company (bar card not required and not a law firm technically but does basically what I want to do as an attorney). All that anxiety for nothing!

But I had sent a nice thank you email within a couple hours of the interview, and I did not think to ask about the timeline until later, when I got worried about the silence.


all that worry for nothing.
just like the bar exam.

AMIRITE!?!?!?

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:19 am

fl0w wrote:
a male human wrote:Sorry, it is already a moot issue. Got the offer contract in the email. It's for some contract/project-basis work, for now, at a boutique company (bar card not required and not a law firm technically but does basically what I want to do as an attorney). All that anxiety for nothing!

But I had sent a nice thank you email within a couple hours of the interview, and I did not think to ask about the timeline until later, when I got worried about the silence.


all that worry for nothing.
just like the bar exam.

AMIRITE!?!?!?

If 2014 truly is a year of mercy, then perhaps there is reason to stay composed.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:09 am

Congrats man. Now keep your fingers crossed for the rest of us pleebs.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:37 am

Thanks! I know that all the active posters here are capable of getting a job they want, if someone as socially retarded as I am can do it. I can't speak for all the unregistered "guest" users lurking, though.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:19 pm

it's not May 16th yet?
i srsly can't handle this. again.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:23 pm

fl0w wrote:it's not May 16th yet?
i srsly can't handle this. again.

Wait until they post the questions and you obsess over it more by redoing all the essays and PTs.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:31 pm

a male human wrote:
fl0w wrote:it's not May 16th yet?
i srsly can't handle this. again.

Wait until they post the questions and you obsess over it more by redoing all the essays and PTs.

i promise you i will not do that. haha

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby MURPH » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:51 am

Congrats, A Male Human.
My career before law school was nursing. I am working night shift at a hospital now. There is a lot of work available and the pay is good. I'd love to do some law work but I need to make some money now.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby El Pollito » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:13 am

MURPH wrote:Congrats, A Male Human.
My career before law school was nursing. I am working night shift at a hospital now. There is a lot of work available and the pay is good. I'd love to do some law work but I need to make some money now.

Just do nursing to hospital admin.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:05 pm

plan B is clearly to do Insanity until I have Shawn T body, then sell said body.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:29 pm

Thanks MURPH. I'm supposed to get my first project soon. Glad you were able to secure a source of income. It's ridiculous how hard (less so if it's a non-lawyer job) it is to find something that pays more than the already paltry sum I was paid before law school. Is it ethical to knowingly allow or encourage someone to apply to law school? I feel doing so would be malicious, kind of like the State Bar. An acquaintance told me she was thinking of going to law school, and I merely offered her to help with any advice she might need. I felt bad for not discouraging it.

Oh, I had a dream that I failed the bar because I didn't make the cut in the MBE. I actually believed it for a while until I realized it was really a fabrication of my mind.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:58 pm

a male human wrote:Thanks MURPH. I'm supposed to get my first project soon. Glad you were able to secure a source of income. It's ridiculous how hard (less so if it's a non-lawyer job) it is to find something that pays more than the already paltry sum I was paid before law school. Is it ethical to knowingly allow or encourage someone to apply to law school? I feel doing so would be malicious, kind of like the State Bar. An acquaintance told me she was thinking of going to law school, and I merely offered her to help with any advice she might need. I felt bad for not discouraging it.

Oh, I had a dream that I failed the bar because I didn't make the cut in the MBE. I actually believed it for a while until I realized it was really a fabrication of my mind.


i tell everyone i know that going to law school is the worst idea. i tell people currently there to drop out. i tell people graduating to get out of the profession immediately.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:46 pm

fl0w - I agree. I've told people the same.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby 1swift » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:19 pm

fl0w wrote:
a male human wrote:Thanks MURPH. I'm supposed to get my first project soon. Glad you were able to secure a source of income. It's ridiculous how hard (less so if it's a non-lawyer job) it is to find something that pays more than the already paltry sum I was paid before law school. Is it ethical to knowingly allow or encourage someone to apply to law school? I feel doing so would be malicious, kind of like the State Bar. An acquaintance told me she was thinking of going to law school, and I merely offered her to help with any advice she might need. I felt bad for not discouraging it.

Oh, I had a dream that I failed the bar because I didn't make the cut in the MBE. I actually believed it for a while until I realized it was really a fabrication of my mind.


i tell everyone i know that going to law school is the worst idea. i tell people currently there to drop out. i tell people graduating to get out of the profession immediately.


Not sure if 100% serious or not but I feel thats a bit unfair. This is clearly not a great time, we're all in this grey area and even those that did pass in July and years before it's not great but there is opportunity and reason to believe things can and will get better.

I don't sugercoat or outwardly encourage anyone to go to law school or continue it, I tell them how things are that I had no clue about but I do that so they have a more informed decision not because I believe they shouldn't go to law school if they want to,.




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