California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

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fl0w
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:34 pm

AntiHuman wrote:And for MBE's...read the call first, briefly look at answer choices to get a sense of subject/issues, then read the fact pattern?

PT's->instructions, then library, then file?

Heres what I do for PTs:

1. read intructions hopefully to get the framework. The hardest part if finding the framework.

2. read the library to gather the rules I think might apply. I also have a hard time finding which rules might apply. I write out the entire rule word for word in softest under the issue headings. Writing out the entire rule takes a lot of time, but it helps when I'm reading the file to know exactly which fact goes under each rule because the rule is clear and written out so I can understand it as opposed to putting it in short form/paraphrase.

And you are saying skim over the cases and just ignore the facts and try to pull the rules? How do we know if we need to use the facts of the library cases?

3. read the library slowly and make sure to put all relevant facts under each rule. I also write out the entire fact word for word. This takes a lot of time too.

This all takes me about 2-2.5 hours. For the remainder of the time, I just focus on organization, any statement of facts and tidying it all up.

In other words, I don't even outline. JUst find the framework, write out entire rules word for word, write out entire facts word for word and come to conclusions?


I would echo what I posted above. I am of the belief that you need to adjust how you approach PTs a bit. Again, it's just based on how I approach it and a lot of people may think my approach is crazy, but if I did it the way you just described, I wouldn't finish.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby El Pollito » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:52 am

El Pollito wrote:Happy simulated MBE day to me.

I forgot how boring this exam was until today.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby lawdawg09 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:14 am

Remember what is being tested on the PT - your ability to follow directions and do organized coherent work in a minimum amount of time.

Proper organization and planning as absolutely essential.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby El Pollito » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:36 am

Are the CPTs supposed to be harder than the MPT?

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby lawdawg09 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:01 am

I am studying for the UBE right now after taking CA last July. They are very similar. MPTs are obviously have fewer facts and a smaller library but it is a challenge to get everything organized in 45 min.

To the person who is not outlining your CPTs - you need to change your approach. The PT is not a test of your ability to write down facts and law, it is designed to see if you can coherently organize a mess in three hours. Organization is everything with the PT. You have to critically think about what you are doing and you have and come up with a coherent plan before you start typing anything. The task memo is key.

The graders are testing your ability to read and understand directions, separate important info from bs and to work under pressure. While the PTs are tricky, they are a source of free points on the bar. You do not need to know any law, you just have to be organized.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:37 pm

No such thing as free points on the bar :lol: Go to hell, In re SIA.

I didn't even realize my birthday is only in 5 days (a lonely Valentine's Day this year). A week goes by unbelievably fast these days. Sometimes I can't even tell what day it is. But I'm thankful that I was able to fight back against an impending sickness and have TLS posters supporting me back with great tips and resources and just listening to my rambling, if anything.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby AntiHuman » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:03 pm

PTs seem the hardest IMO...I mean I don't know how really to outline a PT then.

I like to fully write out the rule and facts and it saves a lot of time on the back end? This process takes me like 2 to 2.5 hours, but I only really need 30-40 minutes to clean it up and organize it.

Do people just paraphrase the rule they think applies and then write it out later? I like to write out the full rule the first go around so when I'm looking for facts I have the clear and full rule to read from and see if the fact applies.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby AntiHuman » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:15 pm

Anyone have an idea of what to focus on the last 2 weeks? I know we have to focus on our weaknesses, but a general guide would help.

mornings:
I'm doing a full PT every other day in the mornings(Tues/thurs/sat). Finish 6 by the end of the 2 weeks. I got 55/55 in july, so I need help here.

On the other days I'm doing 35 timed mbes(mon, wed, fri). Saturday is a full length 100 question test. Hope to finish all 1530 adaptibar q's by end. Currently at 1200.

Afternoon/evening:
Review 1 mbe subject and 1 non mbe subject per day.

review includes the following:

1. review substantive law and try to memorize rule statements
2. look at past mbe questions, correct and incorrect and see explanation
3. outline a past essay and compare to model answer(issue spotting is key for me, so I'm trying to practice with this)
4. simulate a essay(if time permits)

Should I start doing essays in 3 hour blocks?

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:11 pm

AntiHuman wrote:PTs seem the hardest IMO...I mean I don't know how really to outline a PT then.

I like to fully write out the rule and facts and it saves a lot of time on the back end? This process takes me like 2 to 2.5 hours, but I only really need 30-40 minutes to clean it up and organize it.

Do people just paraphrase the rule they think applies and then write it out later? I like to write out the full rule the first go around so when I'm looking for facts I have the clear and full rule to read from and see if the fact applies.


My take on this...
i know you think you are saving time, but you are not. outlines save time because they are succinct and you flip through them quickly w/o scrolling at staring at text on your screen. Organizing first is what saves you time. The instructions themselves say to spend at least 90min reading and organizing before drafting.

The rules are clear enough that you can tell if facts apply from your outlines statement. If you really have to write the whole thing on your screen for reference as opposed to using paper outline... i really don't know what to tell you (aside from please learn how to outline a PT). But I wish you luck.
Last edited by fl0w on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:18 pm

AntiHuman wrote:Anyone have an idea of what to focus on the last 2 weeks? I know we have to focus on our weaknesses, but a general guide would help.

mornings:
I'm doing a full PT every other day in the mornings(Tues/thurs/sat). Finish 6 by the end of the 2 weeks. I got 55/55 in july, so I need help here.

On the other days I'm doing 35 timed mbes(mon, wed, fri). Saturday is a full length 100 question test. Hope to finish all 1530 adaptibar q's by end. Currently at 1200.

Afternoon/evening:
Review 1 mbe subject and 1 non mbe subject per day.

review includes the following:

1. review substantive law and try to memorize rule statements
2. look at past mbe questions, correct and incorrect and see explanation
3. outline a past essay and compare to model answer(issue spotting is key for me, so I'm trying to practice with this)
4. simulate a essay(if time permits)

Should I start doing essays in 3 hour blocks?


I think nearly everyone's schedule has been different and people will have something different to do by this point.
I've been doing 2 full essays 33MBE and essay attack practice every weekday since Jan. Then PTs on the weekends.
This week has been fact pattern association and memorizing patterns for issue spotting. 2 subjects per day, all past essays. (and MBE questions)
Next week is pure memorization. and going over MBE weaknesses.

I'm literally not writing essays anymore until the exam at this point. I've done all of that prep.

But whatever you decide to do, and whatever your predetermined schedule / plan dictates you need to get done... don't burn yourself out. Make it manageable. If you burn out in the last two weeks shit is going to go downhill quickly.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby lawdawg09 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:25 pm

If you got 55s on your essays in July, I would recommend writing as many as possible. Not outlining, writing three in a row under exam conditions.

When you are done, view and compare the model answers. Then re write your essays to conform. You do not need to re invent the wheel, just copy what has successfully been done before.

With the PTs, you really have to read between the lines. Tear out the task memo and the "this is how we do things memo" and use those as a skeleton for your outline.

Ask yourself - what is it that I am being asked to do here and why?

On PTB last July, they wanted to know if the eight different parts of the testimony would be admissible. There was no office memo explaining how to write the memo so you had to look for other clues hidden in the file. By reading the transcript, you knew there were 8 points of testimony that were discussed at the prelim. So you know that you will have to address each issue. If you read the cases you would see that there is a foundation question that determines the admissibility of several of the 8 issues - was the victim a "battered woman" - so you know that you have to answer the foundational question before you dove into the 8 issues. So I created a foundation heading then created 8 additional headings for each piece of testimony.

As i continued to outline, i would throw relevant law in each heading along with facts. I would summarize both. The bar does not care if you write the facts or law verbatim. They just want you to identify the issue, pull some law and analyze it the best you can as fast as you can.

This PT was very hard because they did not give you any structure to start with. If I hadn't taken time to think and analyze the file and cases as a whole I would have been screwed.

If you start writing down every law/rule without deciding if it is necessary, you are going run into trouble because these files are packed with a lot of useless crap designed to lead you to a dead end.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby MURPH » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:34 am

I cannot finish these damn PTs on time. I did the two February 2010 PTs. One yesterday and one today.
Yesterday I read through and took minimal notes as I read. It took me 3 hours and about 35 minutes. My essay was good but sloppy. The paragraphs were too long and my topics seemed somewhat disorganized. On the other hand the Headings were good and the basic form of the PT was like the models.

Today I really tried to finish on time. I did, but at a big cost. My statement of facts was about 4 sentences and the model answers were about a page or more. My headings were terrible. I basically did not follow the directions on the headings and just used short statements where the instructions called for longer "Because XYZ, the court should find ABC for our client." I planned on re-reading the instructions at the 2 hour and 45 minute mark, then to spend the last 15 minutes organizing the essay. that did not happen. I spent the last 2 minutes fixing it up and writing my statement of facts.

I would kill for an extra fifteen minutes. I underestimated how much practice I needed on these. One of the good things about self studying is I can adjust the schedule as I like. It looks like I am going to be doing a lot more PTs.

I got 60 and 55 this summer. Even five points more on each would be enough to put me over. If I can just get a bit faster I can do this.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:28 am

MURPH wrote:I cannot finish these damn PTs on time. I did the two February 2010 PTs. One yesterday and one today.
Yesterday I read through and took minimal notes as I read. It took me 3 hours and about 35 minutes. My essay was good but sloppy. The paragraphs were too long and my topics seemed somewhat disorganized. On the other hand the Headings were good and the basic form of the PT was like the models.

Today I really tried to finish on time. I did, but at a big cost. My statement of facts was about 4 sentences and the model answers were about a page or more. My headings were terrible. I basically did not follow the directions on the headings and just used short statements where the instructions called for longer "Because XYZ, the court should find ABC for our client." I planned on re-reading the instructions at the 2 hour and 45 minute mark, then to spend the last 15 minutes organizing the essay. that did not happen. I spent the last 2 minutes fixing it up and writing my statement of facts.

I would kill for an extra fifteen minutes. I underestimated how much practice I needed on these. One of the good things about self studying is I can adjust the schedule as I like. It looks like I am going to be doing a lot more PTs.

I got 60 and 55 this summer. Even five points more on each would be enough to put me over. If I can just get a bit faster I can do this.


I don't know how else to adequately emphasize how important a good, organized outline (on p-a-p-e-r) is and how many problems it might solve that are popping up. Are people afraid of paper?

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby AntiHuman » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:35 pm

fl0w wrote:
MURPH wrote:I cannot finish these damn PTs on time. I did the two February 2010 PTs. One yesterday and one today.
Yesterday I read through and took minimal notes as I read. It took me 3 hours and about 35 minutes. My essay was good but sloppy. The paragraphs were too long and my topics seemed somewhat disorganized. On the other hand the Headings were good and the basic form of the PT was like the models.

Today I really tried to finish on time. I did, but at a big cost. My statement of facts was about 4 sentences and the model answers were about a page or more. My headings were terrible. I basically did not follow the directions on the headings and just used short statements where the instructions called for longer "Because XYZ, the court should find ABC for our client." I planned on re-reading the instructions at the 2 hour and 45 minute mark, then to spend the last 15 minutes organizing the essay. that did not happen. I spent the last 2 minutes fixing it up and writing my statement of facts.

I would kill for an extra fifteen minutes. I underestimated how much practice I needed on these. One of the good things about self studying is I can adjust the schedule as I like. It looks like I am going to be doing a lot more PTs.

I got 60 and 55 this summer. Even five points more on each would be enough to put me over. If I can just get a bit faster I can do this.


I don't know how else to adequately emphasize how important a good, organized outline (on p-a-p-e-r) is and how many problems it might solve that are popping up. Are people afraid of paper?


My handwriting is so bad that even I can't read it. Thats why I like to do all the outling/writing on examsoft. The problem with examsoft though is the screen isnt that big. I like to see all the rules so that when I am plugging in my facts I can easily see if any of the rules apply.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby MURPH » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:10 pm

I thought that you could adjust the screen and the text size on exam soft to make it readable. I did that in law school. I am not using examsoft now but I am pretty sure there is a way to zoom in.


fl0w, what is it that you write on the paper? Above you wrote "i really don't know what to tell you (aside from please learn how to outline a PT)" If you could give me an idea of what you put in your outline I'd try to imitate it and maybe it will work.
My professors in law school told me to outline the tests too. I did it on paper at first but I realized that I was just doing more work by writing sloppy shit once on paper then trying to write it nicely on examsoft. Whereas, if i just take notes on examsoft, I can copy and paste things fairly quickly if i need to, like if I am breaking a statute into elements. I can do it right there on the screen. If i leave a sloppy mess of notes at the bottom, it is easy to delete.


Not that I copy and paste a lot on these but sometimes I move things around when midway through the exam I realize it makes more sense to have things in a different order. NOTE to anyone doing this. Copy, paste then delete. During my 2L year there was a bug in exam soft where if you cut and pasted more than 500 characters it wouldn't paste. It happened to me and several classmates during our Wills and trusts final. I basically deleted a short paragraph and had to re-write in the closing minutes. Other students got screwed much harder and lost a lot of stuff without time to fix it. There was a lot of panic in the class as people started shouting that their stuff was being deleted in the last minutes of the exam.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:49 pm

fl0w wrote:
MURPH wrote:I cannot finish these damn PTs on time. I did the two February 2010 PTs. One yesterday and one today.
Yesterday I read through and took minimal notes as I read. It took me 3 hours and about 35 minutes. My essay was good but sloppy. The paragraphs were too long and my topics seemed somewhat disorganized. On the other hand the Headings were good and the basic form of the PT was like the models.

Today I really tried to finish on time. I did, but at a big cost. My statement of facts was about 4 sentences and the model answers were about a page or more. My headings were terrible. I basically did not follow the directions on the headings and just used short statements where the instructions called for longer "Because XYZ, the court should find ABC for our client." I planned on re-reading the instructions at the 2 hour and 45 minute mark, then to spend the last 15 minutes organizing the essay. that did not happen. I spent the last 2 minutes fixing it up and writing my statement of facts.

I would kill for an extra fifteen minutes. I underestimated how much practice I needed on these. One of the good things about self studying is I can adjust the schedule as I like. It looks like I am going to be doing a lot more PTs.

I got 60 and 55 this summer. Even five points more on each would be enough to put me over. If I can just get a bit faster I can do this.



I don't know how else to adequately emphasize how important a good, organized outline (on p-a-p-e-r) is and how many problems it might solve that are popping up. Are people afraid of paper?


THIS.

So I just missed teh mark in July and I scored a 55 and a 50 (that's right a fucking 50!) on the PTs. My approach was to read the library, and type the rules into ExamSoft, then go to the facts, and the figure it out from there. I got crushed to say the least and it was a mess.

THis time, I hired a private tutor who graded for the Bar for some odd years and my first PT I turned in (it was a diagnostic), I got a 55. I was down but he told me how imp a good and solid outline of the rule was. I started skimming facts, then going hard into the library and outlining the rule according to the task memo and my scores have been 75, 75, 70 and I've finished each one with 10 minutes to spare. I highly recc outlining it. The analysis on the PTs is a joke and you can write it in 30-45 minutes. But your score will not break 60 unless you have the right issues/rules down. On my second 75, I did In re Snow King (absolute beast of a PT. Read the task memo and you'll see why, lol) and I was outlining my rule well into the 2 hour mark. By 225, I started writing my analysis as fast as I could and finished well wihtin the time limit.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:12 pm

MURPH wrote:I thought that you could adjust the screen and the text size on exam soft to make it readable. I did that in law school. I am not using examsoft now but I am pretty sure there is a way to zoom in.


fl0w, what is it that you write on the paper? Above you wrote "i really don't know what to tell you (aside from please learn how to outline a PT)" If you could give me an idea of what you put in your outline I'd try to imitate it and maybe it will work.
My professors in law school told me to outline the tests too. I did it on paper at first but I realized that I was just doing more work by writing sloppy shit once on paper then trying to write it nicely on examsoft. Whereas, if i just take notes on examsoft, I can copy and paste things fairly quickly if i need to, like if I am breaking a statute into elements. I can do it right there on the screen. If i leave a sloppy mess of notes at the bottom, it is easy to delete.


Not that I copy and paste a lot on these but sometimes I move things around when midway through the exam I realize it makes more sense to have things in a different order. NOTE to anyone doing this. Copy, paste then delete. During my 2L year there was a bug in exam soft where if you cut and pasted more than 500 characters it wouldn't paste. It happened to me and several classmates during our Wills and trusts final. I basically deleted a short paragraph and had to re-write in the closing minutes. Other students got screwed much harder and lost a lot of stuff without time to fix it. There was a lot of panic in the class as people started shouting that their stuff was being deleted in the last minutes of the exam.


So what I would say is that your approach is too focused on what a computer does for you. Realize what a computer does not do for you.
The computer isn't what makes it easy to organize and write your answer. That's all you. The key is having all of this organized before you write anything at all so that you have your outline SET and then you can just freakin type like a madman without stopping (occasional look to copy the rule or fact from the material). The computer's only purpose is that you can type faster than you can write and it is legible. If that's not true for you, then don't even use a computer.

You shouldn't have to reorganize as you are writing your answer. That is a time sink. And you may even start doubting yourself which is a major downer.

I would be terrified to use ExamSoft for my outline because
- screen issues you mentioned
- potential bugs
- possibility of power outage
- possibility of computer failure

God forbid your computer explodes at minute 80. Using your method you are royally fucked. you just failed the bar.
By using paper you are still in the game.

What I do...
Outline the Library - I've discussed what i think is critical to capture, and so have others
Outline the File - this is tougher and ends up looking more like notes (reminder of the fact, where it is in the file) so you can reference them later.
The REAL outline
- Now use the two outlines made and make a real freakin outline. It combines what you had in the library and file
- if you've done it correctly, you will only have to reference any of the provided materials MINIMALLY for the remainder of the PT

*you can get all of the above done by minute 90-100. I try to finish by 90 so I can take a 10min break. Sometimes something clicks when you walk away for a few min. But sometimes there just isn't time for a break right?

Again, to each their own, and some may call this approach crazy, but I've been extremely happy with it and am looking forward to the PTs as my "favorite part" of the exam.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby Max Cady » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:44 pm

Does the file and library come in the same little booklet?

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:13 am

fl0w wrote:I'll start by saying different things work for different people but...

I'd say never read the file first unless the instructions direct you to respond to a document in the file directly. Why would you read the file first when all of the law you need and the vast majority of the issues are in the library?

I'd also say read the cases FAR more selectively. The facts and procedural history of the cases don't matter for shit. As in, don't even read them. You're just looking for the rule. Pull it out. Any facts you use should be from the PT fact pattern, not comparing to any cases in the file.

Finally i'd say try really hard not to read anything twice. You're burning time. That's why you have scratch paper so you can make notes of important things and not have to read them again.

But like I said, everyone has their methods. I might sound like a crazy person to you guys after saying those two things.

Do you analogize/distinguish cases? That seems like an important part of the analysis. Aren't the rules applicable or not applicable to your client or position because the case a rule is from mimics (or doesn't) the facts of the present case? If you don't read the facts, then you won't know how similar/dissimilar they are from your case.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:24 am

DwightSchruteFarms wrote:So I just missed teh mark in July and I scored a 55 and a 50 (that's right a fucking 50!) on the PTs. My approach was to read the library, and type the rules into ExamSoft, then go to the facts, and the figure it out from there. I got crushed to say the least and it was a mess.

THis time, I hired a private tutor who graded for the Bar for some odd years and my first PT I turned in (it was a diagnostic), I got a 55. I was down but he told me how imp a good and solid outline of the rule was. I started skimming facts, then going hard into the library and outlining the rule according to the task memo and my scores have been 75, 75, 70 and I've finished each one with 10 minutes to spare. I highly recc outlining it. The analysis on the PTs is a joke and you can write it in 30-45 minutes. But your score will not break 60 unless you have the right issues/rules down. On my second 75, I did In re Snow King (absolute beast of a PT. Read the task memo and you'll see why, lol) and I was outlining my rule well into the 2 hour mark. By 225, I started writing my analysis as fast as I could and finished well wihtin the time limit.

What did you differently between typing the rules into the computer vs. "outlining" the rules (on paper I'm assuming)? Match facts from the file with the rules?

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:50 am

a male human wrote:
fl0w wrote:I'll start by saying different things work for different people but...

I'd say never read the file first unless the instructions direct you to respond to a document in the file directly. Why would you read the file first when all of the law you need and the vast majority of the issues are in the library?

I'd also say read the cases FAR more selectively. The facts and procedural history of the cases don't matter for shit. As in, don't even read them. You're just looking for the rule. Pull it out. Any facts you use should be from the PT fact pattern, not comparing to any cases in the file.

Finally i'd say try really hard not to read anything twice. You're burning time. That's why you have scratch paper so you can make notes of important things and not have to read them again.

But like I said, everyone has their methods. I might sound like a crazy person to you guys after saying those two things.

Do you analogize/distinguish cases? That seems like an important part of the analysis. Aren't the rules applicable or not applicable to your client or position because the case a rule is from mimics (or doesn't) the facts of the present case? If you don't read the facts, then you won't know how similar/dissimilar they are from your case.


You're still going to think i'm crazy because I can tell you are thinking like a logical human being (which is understandable). But no i don't analogize or distinguish. And no it is not important to the analysis because this isn't work or law school. You're right, if i don't read the facts i will not know how similar/dissimilar my case is to the cases in the library. And frankly, I don't give a damn.

Just read the answer to every PT. You should see the pattern too and discover what is actually critical to your response (hint: it's not this). You probably will not feel confident just taking my word, and I wouldn't expect you to. I'm just some crazy guy on the internet.

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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby a male human » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:15 am

fl0w wrote:
a male human wrote:
fl0w wrote:I'll start by saying different things work for different people but...

I'd say never read the file first unless the instructions direct you to respond to a document in the file directly. Why would you read the file first when all of the law you need and the vast majority of the issues are in the library?

I'd also say read the cases FAR more selectively. The facts and procedural history of the cases don't matter for shit. As in, don't even read them. You're just looking for the rule. Pull it out. Any facts you use should be from the PT fact pattern, not comparing to any cases in the file.

Finally i'd say try really hard not to read anything twice. You're burning time. That's why you have scratch paper so you can make notes of important things and not have to read them again.

But like I said, everyone has their methods. I might sound like a crazy person to you guys after saying those two things.

Do you analogize/distinguish cases? That seems like an important part of the analysis. Aren't the rules applicable or not applicable to your client or position because the case a rule is from mimics (or doesn't) the facts of the present case? If you don't read the facts, then you won't know how similar/dissimilar they are from your case.


You're still going to think i'm crazy because I can tell you are thinking like a logical human being (which is understandable). But no i don't analogize or distinguish. And no it is not important to the analysis because this isn't work or law school. You're right, if i don't read the facts i will not know how similar/dissimilar my case is to the cases in the library. And frankly, I don't give a damn.

Just read the answer to every PT. You should see the pattern too and discover what is actually critical to your response (hint: it's not this). You probably will not feel confident just taking my word, and I wouldn't expect you to. I'm just some crazy guy on the internet.

I don't think you're crazy. If it works for you, then it works for you. Being stubborn about my own methods got me into this retake mess in the first place, so I am open to reasonable suggestions.

The problem is that I will not be able to resist the temptation to analogize/distinguish if i can because of thoughts like "I might as well," "it will look better," "there are probably points for this," "it can't hurt," etc.

But I will place the most importance on the rules. That seems like a running theme here. Those are easy to pull out anyway.

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fl0w
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Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby fl0w » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:33 am

a male human wrote:
fl0w wrote:
a male human wrote:
fl0w wrote:I'll start by saying different things work for different people but...

I'd say never read the file first unless the instructions direct you to respond to a document in the file directly. Why would you read the file first when all of the law you need and the vast majority of the issues are in the library?

I'd also say read the cases FAR more selectively. The facts and procedural history of the cases don't matter for shit. As in, don't even read them. You're just looking for the rule. Pull it out. Any facts you use should be from the PT fact pattern, not comparing to any cases in the file.

Finally i'd say try really hard not to read anything twice. You're burning time. That's why you have scratch paper so you can make notes of important things and not have to read them again.

But like I said, everyone has their methods. I might sound like a crazy person to you guys after saying those two things.

Do you analogize/distinguish cases? That seems like an important part of the analysis. Aren't the rules applicable or not applicable to your client or position because the case a rule is from mimics (or doesn't) the facts of the present case? If you don't read the facts, then you won't know how similar/dissimilar they are from your case.


You're still going to think i'm crazy because I can tell you are thinking like a logical human being (which is understandable). But no i don't analogize or distinguish. And no it is not important to the analysis because this isn't work or law school. You're right, if i don't read the facts i will not know how similar/dissimilar my case is to the cases in the library. And frankly, I don't give a damn.

Just read the answer to every PT. You should see the pattern too and discover what is actually critical to your response (hint: it's not this). You probably will not feel confident just taking my word, and I wouldn't expect you to. I'm just some crazy guy on the internet.

I don't think you're crazy. If it works for you, then it works for you. Being stubborn about my own methods got me into this retake mess in the first place, so I am open to reasonable suggestions.

The problem is that I will not be able to resist the temptation to analogize/distinguish if i can because of thoughts like "I might as well," "it will look better," "there are probably points for this," "it can't hurt," etc.

But I will place the most importance on the rules. That seems like a running theme here. Those are easy to pull out anyway.


It's extremely tempting to do it. I did it as much as possible in my first go. It's so tempting, in fact, that that's why i don't even read the facts (once i've read enough to know it's facts/procedural i skip) or even go as far as to cross them out so that i don't spend time on them. Trust me, I understand why you want to do it. Deep down, so do i.

CourtneyElizabeth
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:22 am

Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby CourtneyElizabeth » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:14 pm

Is it over yet?

lawdawg09
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: California Bar Exam (February 2014) thread

Postby lawdawg09 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:27 pm

FWIW - A very close friend's examsoft froze and crashed on her 100 min into PTB last July.

She passed.

Tenacity is tested on exam day.




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