Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

SKlei
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Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby SKlei » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:00 pm

I signed up with Barbri my 1L year to lock in the rate (which I'm sure doesn't even save me much). Anyway, I've been reading reviews on here about other companies such as Themis, which I'm kind of interested in as it is 2K less than Barbri. However, I'm kind of nervous about going with another company because my friends have told me that I must take Barbri and stick to their schedule and will most likely pass. Are others sticking with Barbri or more inclined to look elsewhere?

09042014
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:03 pm

SKlei wrote:I signed up with Barbri my 1L year to lock in the rate (which I'm sure doesn't even save me much). Anyway, I've been reading reviews on here about other companies such as Themis, which I'm kind of interested in as it is 2K less than Barbri. However, I'm kind of nervous about going with another company because my friends have told me that I must take Barbri and stick to their schedule and will most likely pass. Are others sticking with Barbri or more inclined to look elsewhere?


Why does Themis post pass rates but barbri doesn't? I dunno why everyone assumes Barbri is better despite not a shred of evidence to suggest it.

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kalvano
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby kalvano » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:42 pm

None of my friends who took BarBri thought it was worth the extra money over Themis, and Themis will credit you the BarBri deposit.

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FattyMcFatFat
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby FattyMcFatFat » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:37 pm

kalvano wrote:None of my friends who took BarBri thought it was worth the extra money over Themis, and Themis will credit you the BarBri deposit.


I hear people say stuff like this a lot, but I don't really understand why. If your friends took one course, but not the other, how could they know such a thing? Even if they discuss these things with other friends and maybe take a look at some of the materials, I still don't see how their post hoc perspective wouldn't be clouded by what they already know. I also think that people have tendency to by cynical about these things. In this case, by being unfairly critical of Barbri simply because they charged more and no one cares what the truth actually is anymore because everyone has already taken the bar.

I realize that I kind of sound like a shill. I'm actually just genuinely curious since I haven't picked a bar prep course yet. Thoughts?

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kalvano
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby kalvano » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:49 pm

Because we studied together multiple times and compared notes, lectures, and materials. All courses are basically the same. BarBri just charges way more.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:03 pm

I'm one of the people who took BarBri and doesn't think it was worth it over the alternatives. Basically, my law school class split pretty equally between BarBri and the alternatives, and the vast majority of us all passed totally regardless of what course we took. (Admittedly, way more people took Kaplan than Themis, so I can't speak as directly to the latter.) The people who failed were equally split between the courses, too, and from what I know about the failures, they had nothing to do with the course taken (my impression is that people who fail either didn't put in any work, or are those unfortunate souls who just don't "get" the exam - their brains just don't work that way for whatever reason - and I don't think in either case the course taken makes any difference).

Also, having taken the exam, and passed, and got my scores, I just feel like a lot of what BarBri includes is either not really necessary, or not any different from the other courses. They're all going to give you written materials and lectures covering the BLL. Yes, it was nice to do my MBE practice questions on the computer and get the personalized analysis about which areas of the law I did worse/better in, and to see how my scores compared to everyone across the country taking BarBri at that time. But I don't think those things made any real difference in my preparation for the test.

I took BarBri for peace of mind (it's the known quantity), and I don't regret it. I don't think it's going to hurt anyone to do BarBri, and if you have the money or aren't paying, go for it. But I don't think it's measurably better. I think your school's bar passage rate (and possibly your performance in school) say much more about how you'll do than which course you take.

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kalvano
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby kalvano » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:09 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yes, it was nice to do my MBE practice questions on the computer and get the personalized analysis about which areas of the law I did worse/better in, and to see how my scores compared to everyone across the country taking BarBri at that time. But I don't think those things made any real difference in my preparation for the test.



Themis does this too, for whatever it's worth.

If you put in the work, you'll pass no matter which course you take. If your firm is paying, go wild. But if you're paying, BarBri simply isn't worth the extra money.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:30 pm

kalvano wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yes, it was nice to do my MBE practice questions on the computer and get the personalized analysis about which areas of the law I did worse/better in, and to see how my scores compared to everyone across the country taking BarBri at that time. But I don't think those things made any real difference in my preparation for the test.



Themis does this too, for whatever it's worth.

If you put in the work, you'll pass no matter which course you take. If your firm is paying, go wild. But if you're paying, BarBri simply isn't worth the extra money.

See, there you go! I think post the antitrust suit against BarBri, they're all going to offer the same thing.

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mr. wednesday
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby mr. wednesday » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:58 pm

Everyone I know who took Themis passed. I self-studied and passed. Everyone I know who took Barbri passed, but also seemed more stressed than people taking Themis. Maybe people who get really stressed by the bar have a tendency to not stray from the most well-known course, or maybe it is actually more stressful. Who knows.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:27 pm

BarBri's shtick is to terrify you that you're not going to pass unless you DO EVERYTHING BARBRI SAYS (I swear they grade essays down for this reason), so that doesn't surprise me.

09042014
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:22 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:BarBri's shtick is to terrify you that you're not going to pass unless you DO EVERYTHING BARBRI SAYS (I swear they grade essays down for this reason), so that doesn't surprise me.


The bar is stressful enough. It's outrageous to use that tactic.

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Detrox
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby Detrox » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:11 pm

kalvano wrote:None of my friends who took BarBri thought it was worth the extra money over Themis, and Themis will credit you the BarBri deposit.


I share this sentiment. I probably got 10 points higher because of the scare Barbri put into me, but either way I would have passed. Everyone I knew who took Themis did just fine and saved money.

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Bronx Bum
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby Bronx Bum » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:38 pm

Peace of mind? I know a ton of idiots who took barbri and failed and a bunch of normal people who took themis and passed.

The key is not choking on mbe day. Also u have to be efficient on ny day. I know morons who spent an entire three days learning commercial paper and secured transactions cold. Three days. I didn't even look at those two subjects. Did you really fuckin thinks there was going to be a commercial paper question that would make or break you? Know holder in due course and call it a day.

That's why seperac is also good. Seperac was the best 350 I've ever spent. That and themis. Total of 1700 for Themis (ny/nj) + seperac. Passed with 151 mbe. Going on a nice weekend vacation with the rest of the money I saved.

Gorki
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby Gorki » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:56 pm

As has been said by all the rest. BARBRI's only plus is they usually have way more students on each campus pushing BARBRI like an adjustable rate mortgage pre-2008. People just assume Bar review = BARBRI. And people who shelled out more for BARBRI defend it because they are dumbass law students (who, by our nature, are self-rationalizing dickheads).

Now that the alternatives are becoming more well known, BARBRI is dying. As it should.

In my state I know 1 person who failed and they used BARBRI. Is that anecdotal? Prolly. But people I know used Themis and passed, and Themis was widely panned as being "not good" for our jurisdiction.

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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:08 pm

There's really no trick to the bar exam. It's just applying sufficient effort over a sufficient time to studying the right material. Any of these courses should have the right material (but Barbri and Themis definitely do; I don't know anything personally about Kaplan, Pieper, whatever the hell else is out there). Barbri's business model involves leveraging people's irrational fears to charge more for the "sure thing." In reality, no reason to pay for it.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby BarbellDreams » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:32 pm

I took PA/NJ with Themis and I had absolutely no complaints. I truly can't imagine ANY reason to take BarBri.

SKlei
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby SKlei » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:17 pm

Can someone also explain how these programs exactly work? Do you actually go to lectures or you go to a meeting place and watch a lecture on a screen, which you can do at home on your comp. Are the lectures like the Barbri MPRE video where a guy just speaks and you fill in the blanks? Also, what is the suggested daily schedule?

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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby maximator » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:51 pm

SKlei wrote:Can someone also explain how these programs exactly work?


I took Themis.

Themis is completely online i.e. you watch the lectures on your computer screen. They lecture away and you have a sheet that you can use to fill in the blanks.

Barbri has in-person lectures. Sometimes they involve professors lecturing, sometimes you watch a recorded lecture. All of it kind of depends on where you are studying and what jurisdiction you are taking e.g. if you are in California studying for the Georgia bar, there may not be live classes. You can still watch everything online though.

As far as which one to take, I didn't take Barbri so I don't know what the experience was like. I can say that I easily passed with Themis. So who knows, maybe Barbri is better. But I find it hard to believe that it is thousands of dollars better.

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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:02 pm

maximator wrote:
SKlei wrote:Can someone also explain how these programs exactly work?


I took Themis.

Themis is completely online i.e. you watch the lectures on your computer screen. They lecture away and you have a sheet that you can use to fill in the blanks.

Barbri has in-person lectures. Sometimes they involve professors lecturing, sometimes you watch a recorded lecture. All of it kind of depends on where you are studying and what jurisdiction you are taking e.g. if you are in California studying for the Georgia bar, there may not be live classes. You can still watch everything online though.

As far as which one to take, I didn't take Barbri so I don't know what the experience was like. I can say that I easily passed with Themis. So who knows, maybe Barbri is better. But I find it hard to believe that it is thousands of dollars better.

Even in-jurisdiction Barbri classes are often (usually?) recorded. Like at NYU where there must have been hundreds of people taking it. You show up at a particular time to watch a video with a bunch of other people. The only reason to do it is if you need to be told to show up somewhere in order to put the work in. But I think for all but the most disorganized people, the fear of failing the bar is enough to get you to watch your online lectures.

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thesealocust
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:27 pm

All of them are stupid scams designed to pray on your fears. Spend $99 for the NY prep materials from baroutlines.com or else buy books used on ebay from the major prep courses - it's all you need.

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Bronx Bum
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby Bronx Bum » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:57 am

thesealocust wrote:All of them are stupid scams designed to pray on your fears. Spend $99 for the NY prep materials from baroutlines.com or else buy books used on ebay from the major prep courses - it's all you need.


While I agree with you there, I think a themis-type course is really helpful because it has an online MBE bank. The mbe bank is key. PMBR is okay because it has thousands of questions, but they're not real questions. Themis has real questions. Adaptibar has real questions too but it's $500 or so.

Here's what I would do if I could redo NY:

1. seperac ($350). Best state outline. Canned paragraphs for specific topics and subtopics. If you memorize that, you're good for the state stuff.

2. Adaptabar (~$500): tons of MBE questions

3. Kaplan PMBR (my school gave it free): 1500 questions + redbook

4. Baroutlines ($99): b/c they have MP3 lectures.

I ended up themis + seperac which was fine too. Seperac also has awesome outlines and links to the state essays.

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kalvano
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby kalvano » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:01 am

Didn't you fail the NY bar?

Void
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby Void » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:10 am

I took barbri and regret it, although I passed 2 bars. If I could do it again I would just go with the cheapest possible option.

09042014
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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:40 am

If you learn from an outline, I think Tls is right. Just bar outlines and a q bank. Less than five hundo.

If you want the lectures and essay feedback Id go Themis.

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Re: Barbri for peace of mind for the NY July 2014 bar?

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:28 pm

kalvano wrote:Didn't you fail the NY bar?


No, he failed other bars, just not NY/NJ.




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