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locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:42 am

Bedsole wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:Me too. I've answered a couple with "I don't know." Submit.

I usually try to issue spot, at least, but they're a drag, for sure.


What I have found is that if I just decide "I'll outline this one, see what issues I can spot, and then double check my outline" it often turns into me writing a full blown answer, which is incredibly useful as a review. Even when I don't end up writing out the answer, refreshing the elements in my head does more for me than just reading the model answer. Still doesn't change the fact that I dread every single one of these things.


Yeah, that sounds pretty similar to what I've done with some. It is helpful. I just can't remember the law very well sometimes, especially for certain areas.... but I guess I'll get there.

On another note, I'd like to leave my house and go study somewhere else, but it won't stop fucking raining in Philly and I don't feel like walking in a downpour with my laptop in a bag and spending $8 on a cup of tea I can make for free at home. But being somewhere else helps sometimes. What do you guys think? Prefer to study at home, or out in the world?

GertrudePerkins
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby GertrudePerkins » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:54 am

Bedsole wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:Me too. I've answered a couple with "I don't know." Submit.

I usually try to issue spot, at least, but they're a drag, for sure.


What I have found is that if I just decide "I'll outline this one, see what issues I can spot, and then double check my outline" it often turns into me writing a full blown answer, which is incredibly useful as a review. Even when I don't end up writing out the answer, refreshing the elements in my head does more for me than just reading the model answer. Still doesn't change the fact that I dread every single one of these things.
YES. With you 100%. Always dread it and it's always useful.

dsclaw
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby dsclaw » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:07 pm

SPOILER: EVIDENCE Question
A plaintiff sued a defendant for damages arising out of an automobile collision. At trial, the plaintiff called an eyewitness to the collision. The plaintiff expected the eyewitness to testify that she had observed the defendant's automobile for five seconds prior to the collision and estimated the defendant's speed at the time of the collision to have been 50 miles per hour. Instead, the eyewitness testified that she estimated the defendant's speed to have been 25 miles per hour. Without finally excusing the eyewitness as a witness, the plaintiff then called a police officer to testify that the eyewitness had told him during his investigation at the accident scene that the defendant "was doing at least 50." The police officer's testimony is

Answers
admissible as a present sense impression.
admissible to impeach the eyewitness.
inadmissible, because the plaintiff may not impeach his own witness.
inadmissible, because it is hearsay not within any exception.

Rationale:
Answer choice B is correct. The general rule is that a party may attack the credibility of ("impeach") any witness, even a witness the impeaching party called. Impeachment may be made during direct or cross-examination. Thus, answer choice C is incorrect because a party may impeach a witness she called. Answer choice A is incorrect because it misstates the reason why the testimony is admissible. The present sense impression exception to the hearsay rule covers statements made while the declarant is perceiving an event (or very shortly thereafter). Answer choice D is incorrect because the testimony is not hearsay as it is offered for impeachment purposes, not to prove the truth of the matter asserted.

Someone want to explain to me why A, would not be a correct answer. If you are able to admit it as a party present sense impression, then you can use it substantively and for impeachment purposes. I personally thought A would be the better answer. I understand that the question is asking about impeachment, but A is correct and if you admit it under A you can use it also to impeach. Anyone else have issue with this?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:11 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
Bedsole wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:Me too. I've answered a couple with "I don't know." Submit.

I usually try to issue spot, at least, but they're a drag, for sure.


What I have found is that if I just decide "I'll outline this one, see what issues I can spot, and then double check my outline" it often turns into me writing a full blown answer, which is incredibly useful as a review. Even when I don't end up writing out the answer, refreshing the elements in my head does more for me than just reading the model answer. Still doesn't change the fact that I dread every single one of these things.


Yeah, that sounds pretty similar to what I've done with some. It is helpful. I just can't remember the law very well sometimes, especially for certain areas.... but I guess I'll get there.

On another note, I'd like to leave my house and go study somewhere else, but it won't stop fucking raining in Philly and I don't feel like walking in a downpour with my laptop in a bag and spending $8 on a cup of tea I can make for free at home. But being somewhere else helps sometimes. What do you guys think? Prefer to study at home, or out in the world?


Philly has been pretty terrible. Which part of Philly are you in? I study at home because I like getting into groove with my system and not leaving the norm for the whole 2 months, my fiancee opts for the $8 Starbucks cup while studying.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:15 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
Yeah, that sounds pretty similar to what I've done with some. It is helpful. I just can't remember the law very well sometimes, especially for certain areas.... but I guess I'll get there.

On another note, I'd like to leave my house and go study somewhere else, but it won't stop fucking raining in Philly and I don't feel like walking in a downpour with my laptop in a bag and spending $8 on a cup of tea I can make for free at home. But being somewhere else helps sometimes. What do you guys think? Prefer to study at home, or out in the world?


Philly has been pretty terrible. Which part of Philly are you in? I study at home because I like getting into groove with my system and not leaving the norm for the whole 2 months, my fiancee opts for the $8 Starbucks cup while studying.


I'm in the no man's land between Northern Liberties and Old City. It's not really raining right now, but it looks like it could go at any time. Where are you?

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Bustang
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bustang » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:16 pm

dsclaw wrote:SPOILER: EVIDENCE Question
A plaintiff sued a defendant for damages arising out of an automobile collision. At trial, the plaintiff called an eyewitness to the collision. The plaintiff expected the eyewitness to testify that she had observed the defendant's automobile for five seconds prior to the collision and estimated the defendant's speed at the time of the collision to have been 50 miles per hour. Instead, the eyewitness testified that she estimated the defendant's speed to have been 25 miles per hour. Without finally excusing the eyewitness as a witness, the plaintiff then called a police officer to testify that the eyewitness had told him during his investigation at the accident scene that the defendant "was doing at least 50." The police officer's testimony is

Answers
admissible as a present sense impression.
admissible to impeach the eyewitness.
inadmissible, because the plaintiff may not impeach his own witness.
inadmissible, because it is hearsay not within any exception.

Rationale:
Answer choice B is correct. The general rule is that a party may attack the credibility of ("impeach") any witness, even a witness the impeaching party called. Impeachment may be made during direct or cross-examination. Thus, answer choice C is incorrect because a party may impeach a witness she called. Answer choice A is incorrect because it misstates the reason why the testimony is admissible. The present sense impression exception to the hearsay rule covers statements made while the declarant is perceiving an event (or very shortly thereafter). Answer choice D is incorrect because the testimony is not hearsay as it is offered for impeachment purposes, not to prove the truth of the matter asserted.

Someone want to explain to me why A, would not be a correct answer. If you are able to admit it as a party present sense impression, then you can use it substantively and for impeachment purposes. I personally thought A would be the better answer. I understand that the question is asking about impeachment, but A is correct and if you admit it under A you can use it also to impeach. Anyone else have issue with this?


Investigation is not during or immediately after the event (although one question Themis asked was similar to this and said the statement during the investigation WAS satisfied by PSI). I think the facts are leading you to find this is a prior inconsistent statement, not made under oath, therefore it can be used to impeach, but not substantively.

missinglink
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby missinglink » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:17 pm

dsclaw wrote:Someone want to explain to me why A, would not be a correct answer. If you are able to admit it as a party present sense impression, then you can use it substantively and for impeachment purposes. I personally thought A would be the better answer. I understand that the question is asking about impeachment, but A is correct and if you admit it under A you can use it also to impeach. Anyone else have issue with this?


My thought is that present sense impression is only used to relate an event or condition of something -- and not, as here, what a third party eye witness related to the declarant.

Part of the reason why the statement of a present sense impression gets in is because it is made spontaneously and contemporaneously to an event that the declarant is then perceiving. In the world of hearsay evidence, that's presumptively trustworthy.

What we're dealing with here is an officer telling us what someone else told them at the scene of the accident. The officer didn't perceive anything. He's just relating someone else's present sense impression of an event. When the officer talked to the eyewitness, the eyewitness was no longer presently perceiving anything, so it no longer fits under that exception.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm

You can certainly have a third party explain what a declarant perceived, but that perception needs to be at or near the time of an event, not during an investigation which likely happened at least some time after the accident (30 mins+ or whatever). If third party testimony of present sense impression was not allowed 803(1) basically would be unusable, but with that said in this scenario its somewhat of a stretch to say that after a declarant saw what happened, cops were called, cops came to scene, cops questioned declarant it was still a present sense impression. Always ask yourself: Did declarant reasonably have the time to gather themselves and come up with a bullshit story to tell?

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elysiansmiles
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby elysiansmiles » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:23 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
Bedsole wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:Me too. I've answered a couple with "I don't know." Submit.

I usually try to issue spot, at least, but they're a drag, for sure.


What I have found is that if I just decide "I'll outline this one, see what issues I can spot, and then double check my outline" it often turns into me writing a full blown answer, which is incredibly useful as a review. Even when I don't end up writing out the answer, refreshing the elements in my head does more for me than just reading the model answer. Still doesn't change the fact that I dread every single one of these things.


Yeah, that sounds pretty similar to what I've done with some. It is helpful. I just can't remember the law very well sometimes, especially for certain areas.... but I guess I'll get there.

On another note, I'd like to leave my house and go study somewhere else, but it won't stop fucking raining in Philly and I don't feel like walking in a downpour with my laptop in a bag and spending $8 on a cup of tea I can make for free at home. But being somewhere else helps sometimes. What do you guys think? Prefer to study at home, or out in the world?


Philly has been pretty terrible. Which part of Philly are you in? I study at home because I like getting into groove with my system and not leaving the norm for the whole 2 months, my fiancee opts for the $8 Starbucks cup while studying.


I'm in DC and having a similar problem with the weather. If I have no food in my house I'll usually got get some coffee and hunker down there for awhile, come back for lunch and then study in my apt in the afternoon. I've also told myself several times "if the weather is nice I'll go to the library after lunch" (after lunch since the library doesn't open until 1pm) - but whenever I say that it's always pouring in the afternoon. I definitely study better when I mix up my location at bit. If I'm too tired or distracted at home, going somewhere else is usually my best attempt at getting things done.

locusdelicti
Posts: 225
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:10 pm

Got my email for the live, simulated MBE. I think I'll just take it at home. Anyone going to it?

missinglink
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby missinglink » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:42 pm

locusdelicti wrote:Got my email for the live, simulated MBE. I think I'll just take it at home. Anyone going to it?

Drive to Malibu from Culver City during morning traffic?

I think I'll pass.

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Dr. Review
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Dr. Review » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:13 pm

locusdelicti wrote:Got my email for the live, simulated MBE. I think I'll just take it at home. Anyone going to it?


I think it's great for people with test day anxiety, but I think I'll pass.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:14 pm

locusdelicti wrote:Got my email for the live, simulated MBE. I think I'll just take it at home. Anyone going to it?

I didn't get the email. I think they know I'm not ready.

dsclaw
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby dsclaw » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:36 pm

Anyone actually re watching the lecture video when it says review? or are you guys only looking at the handouts? It seems like some of the distinctions are missing from the handouts though... so maybe I should just look in the books
Last edited by dsclaw on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:37 pm

dsclaw wrote:Anyone actually re watching the lecture video when it says review? or are you guys only looking at the handouts?


I don't think we are suposed to.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:39 pm

dsclaw wrote:Anyone actually re watching the lecture video when it says review? or are you guys only looking at the handouts?

I try to force myself to review at least the handout. But that doesn't always happen.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:52 pm

It's horrifying to do, but I noticed my MBE scores going up quite a lot when I reread the full outlines. Seems like most of the ones I miss have to do with the exceptions that they don't bother to note on the smaller outlines. FWIW

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HETPE3B
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby HETPE3B » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:54 pm

Anyone finding that it's a huge pain in the ass to review MBE PQs after having answered them in test mode?

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Holly Golightly
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:13 pm

HETPE3B wrote:Anyone finding that it's a huge pain in the ass to review MBE PQs after having answered them in test mode?

I know I would never actually do it, so I always do interactive mode.

antonious13
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby antonious13 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:12 pm

missinglink wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:Got my email for the live, simulated MBE. I think I'll just take it at home. Anyone going to it?

Drive to Malibu from Culver City during morning traffic?

I think I'll pass.


Right? Head to Berkley from the Peninsula when BART is on strike? Not happening. Even if BART was running, that's just a long trip.

antonious13
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby antonious13 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:15 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
HETPE3B wrote:Anyone finding that it's a huge pain in the ass to review MBE PQs after having answered them in test mode?

I know I would never actually do it, so I always do interactive mode.


Same. I've tried going test mode just so I don't get frustrated with all the answers I miss, but I never want to review them afterward because of all the scrolling up and down and shit. So annoying.

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elysiansmiles
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby elysiansmiles » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:22 pm

I know some people on this forum were asking, but I contacted Themis about getting more MBE questions and this was their total non-response to me:

Me: Hi! I would like to practice property MBE questions more, but I have already worked through the 5 property mbe problem sets. I know there are a lot of mixed review sets coming up, but is there any way I could get more mbe questions relating to propety specifically?

Themis response: At this time, once you have completed the single-subject MBE practice question sessions you will then have several mixed practice question sessions to complete as you progress through the coruse.
Thank you,
xxx


So.... no?

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HETPE3B
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby HETPE3B » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:27 pm

antonious13 wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:
HETPE3B wrote:Anyone finding that it's a huge pain in the ass to review MBE PQs after having answered them in test mode?

I know I would never actually do it, so I always do interactive mode.


Same. I've tried going test mode just so I don't get frustrated with all the answers I miss, but I never want to review them afterward because of all the scrolling up and down and shit. So annoying.

Precisely my problem. I wish we could review the same way we do milestones - by simply going down the page and reading questions/explanations in plain text format.

Themis, I know you're lurking. This shouldn't be difficult to fix.

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Bustang
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bustang » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:41 pm

I've already conceded to 50-60% on property. Don't care about that water-gulper.

dsclaw
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby dsclaw » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:38 pm

Got hammered on crim law section tonight and what I learned from it was I cannot read. This is the first time I found a question which asked which he could not be charged for, freaking tricked me because I was reading it fast.




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