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HETPE3B
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby HETPE3B » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:32 pm

Bedsole wrote:I made this for you guys:

thank you, kind Sir!

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forza
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby forza » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:33 pm

I'm just going to go ahead and say it: fuck reading a 90-page civ pro and 140-page CPLR outline. Just not going to do it.

09042014
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:34 pm

I got a 3/5 on my first essay. Par for the course I assume.

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HETPE3B
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby HETPE3B » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:45 pm

forza wrote:I'm just going to go ahead and say it: fuck reading a 90-page civ pro and 140-page CPLR outline. Just not going to do it.

Yup. Said the exact same thing. Shit's not even an MBE subject. Went with the 31 and 70 page handouts instead.

This was also when I switched from reading outlines to filling out handouts for the rest of the material.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:48 pm

3/5 also. But this Corporations one today was a disaster. I used big long words in place of the rules I didn't know, in the hopes of fooling the grader.

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:54 pm

Generally, Property is my jam, but I'm lost on this.

SPOILER PROPERTY MBE QUESTION
(Question ID#1038)
A grantor conveyed her only parcel of land to a grantee by a duly executed and delivered warranty deed, which provided: "To have and to hold the described tract of land in fee simple, subject to the understanding that within one year from the date of the instrument said grantee shall construct and thereafter maintain and operate on said premises a public health center." The grantee constructed a public health center on the tract within the time specified and operated it for five years. At the end of this period, the grantee converted the structure into a senior citizens' recreational facility. It is conceded by all parties in interest that a senior citizens' recreational facility is not a public health center. In an appropriate action, the grantor seeks a declaration that the change in the use of the facility has caused the land and structure to revert to her.

In this action, the grantor should
A. win, because the language of the deed created a determinable fee, which leaves a possibility of reverter in the grantor.
B. win, because the language of the deed created a fee subject to condition subsequent, which leaves a right of entry or power of termination in the grantor.
C. lose, because the language of the deed created only a contractual obligation and did not provide for retention of property interest by the grantor.
D. lose, because an equitable charge is enforceable only in equity.
Incorrect: Answer choice C is correct. Answer choice A is incorrect because the deed did not create a determinable fee. There was no durational language such as "so long as," "while," "during," or "until." Answer choice B is incorrect because the deed did not create a fee simple subject to a condition subsequent. There was no conditional language such as "provided that," "on condition that," or "but if." Thus, the deed did not retain any interest in the grantor. Answer choice D is incorrect because this is not an equitable charge.


Why exactly is "subject to the understanding that within one year grantee will do X with the property" different than "provided that" or "on condition that?" The owner clearly intended to transfer the land to grantee "provided that" grantee would build the fitness center.

missinglink
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby missinglink » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:05 pm

CA taker here.

I got a 55% on my crim law essay. I've yet to pass any essays. :|

And yet my MBE scores are 70-88% in the various topics covered so far. Does anyone have strategies for the essay portion of the CA bar? So far my strategy isn't working too well.

dsclaw
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby dsclaw » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:30 pm

Catleesi wrote:Generally, Property is my jam, but I'm lost on this.

SPOILER PROPERTY MBE QUESTION
(Question ID#1038)
A grantor conveyed her only parcel of land to a grantee by a duly executed and delivered warranty deed, which provided: "To have and to hold the described tract of land in fee simple, subject to the understanding that within one year from the date of the instrument said grantee shall construct and thereafter maintain and operate on said premises a public health center." The grantee constructed a public health center on the tract within the time specified and operated it for five years. At the end of this period, the grantee converted the structure into a senior citizens' recreational facility. It is conceded by all parties in interest that a senior citizens' recreational facility is not a public health center. In an appropriate action, the grantor seeks a declaration that the change in the use of the facility has caused the land and structure to revert to her.

In this action, the grantor should
A. win, because the language of the deed created a determinable fee, which leaves a possibility of reverter in the grantor.
B. win, because the language of the deed created a fee subject to condition subsequent, which leaves a right of entry or power of termination in the grantor.
C. lose, because the language of the deed created only a contractual obligation and did not provide for retention of property interest by the grantor.
D. lose, because an equitable charge is enforceable only in equity.
Incorrect: Answer choice C is correct. Answer choice A is incorrect because the deed did not create a determinable fee. There was no durational language such as "so long as," "while," "during," or "until." Answer choice B is incorrect because the deed did not create a fee simple subject to a condition subsequent. There was no conditional language such as "provided that," "on condition that," or "but if." Thus, the deed did not retain any interest in the grantor. Answer choice D is incorrect because this is not an equitable charge.


Why exactly is "subject to the understanding that within one year grantee will do X with the property" different than "provided that" or "on condition that?" The owner clearly intended to transfer the land to grantee "provided that" grantee would build the fitness center.


Got this same question wrong in my Milestone Exam, still do not understand why its not B, pretty sure any court would read that as implying B and not by those specific contexts

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:35 pm

dsclaw wrote:Got this same question wrong in my Milestone Exam, still do not understand why its not B, pretty sure any court would read that as implying B and not by those specific contexts


I also thought it was B and am still confused. If nobody can explain it tonight I'll ask my adviser.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:49 pm

Catleesi wrote:
dsclaw wrote:Got this same question wrong in my Milestone Exam, still do not understand why its not B, pretty sure any court would read that as implying B and not by those specific contexts


I also thought it was B and am still confused. If nobody can explain it tonight I'll ask my adviser.


It's not a condition, because it's not a requirement. It's "subject to the understanding that", which isn't requiring anything.

dsclaw
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby dsclaw » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:04 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
Catleesi wrote:
dsclaw wrote:Got this same question wrong in my Milestone Exam, still do not understand why its not B, pretty sure any court would read that as implying B and not by those specific contexts


I also thought it was B and am still confused. If nobody can explain it tonight I'll ask my adviser.


It's not a condition, because it's not a requirement. It's "subject to the understanding that", which isn't requiring anything.


This is probably the correct reason because MBE is very mechanic, however I would argue subject to the understanding that is a condition on maintaining ownership of the land.

calibred
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby calibred » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:08 pm

CA takers: Can anyone explain to me the importance of Prop 8 (evidence)? If all evidence must be included in criminal trials, does that basically mean that 403 (probative v. danger of unfair prejudice) doesn't have as much of an effect?

TheBeard
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby TheBeard » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:14 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
Catleesi wrote:
dsclaw wrote:Got this same question wrong in my Milestone Exam, still do not understand why its not B, pretty sure any court would read that as implying B and not by those specific contexts


I also thought it was B and am still confused. If nobody can explain it tonight I'll ask my adviser.


It's not a condition, because it's not a requirement. It's "subject to the understanding that", which isn't requiring anything.


According to Themis, only certain words trigger a condition ("on the condition that," "provided that," and "but if"). I agree that "subject to" is conditional language, but not according to Themis. In any event, there's another reason why owner doesn't win: he failed to include specific right of re-entry language in the deed. Remember that unlike reverter and reversion, right of re-entry does not occur automatically, the owner must affirmatively assert it (which he does here) AND it must be explicitly retained in the granting deed for the grantor to have any remaining interest in the property.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:32 pm

TheBeard wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
Catleesi wrote:
I also thought it was B and am still confused. If nobody can explain it tonight I'll ask my adviser.


It's not a condition, because it's not a requirement. It's "subject to the understanding that", which isn't requiring anything.


According to Themis, only certain words trigger a condition ("on the condition that," "provided that," and "but if"). I agree that "subject to" is conditional language, but not according to Themis. In any event, there's another reason why owner doesn't win: he failed to include specific right of re-entry language in the deed. Remember that unlike reverter and reversion, right of re-entry does not occur automatically, the owner must affirmatively assert it (which he does here) AND it must be explicitly retained in the granting deed for the grantor to have any remaining interest in the property.


Smooth. I didn't even think of the specific language regarding right of reentry.

"Subject to" isn't really conditional language, though. "I will buy the property subject to state law" doesn't make the purchase of the property contingent upon state law; it simply says it is subject to state law. "To A for life, then to B, subject to our agreement" doesn't make a condition, either. It means that B's ownership is subject to an agreement, but it doesn't make B's ownership conditional upon the agreement.

Does that make sense?

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Holly Golightly
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Holly Golightly » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:23 pm

lol, the Illinois Corporations handout says "Defective Corporations" instead of "De Facto Corporations."

I'm so fucking bored trying to pay attention to this shit that I found that way too amusing.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:06 pm

My scores went from the mid 60s to the mid 40s. I'm spending more time reviewing, making outlines, and studying flashcards to help me review the material. How am I getting worse??
Last edited by Bikeflip on Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TheBeard
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby TheBeard » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:13 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
TheBeard wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
Catleesi wrote:
I also thought it was B and am still confused. If nobody can explain it tonight I'll ask my adviser.


It's not a condition, because it's not a requirement. It's "subject to the understanding that", which isn't requiring anything.


According to Themis, only certain words trigger a condition ("on the condition that," "provided that," and "but if"). I agree that "subject to" is conditional language, but not according to Themis. In any event, there's another reason why owner doesn't win: he failed to include specific right of re-entry language in the deed. Remember that unlike reverter and reversion, right of re-entry does not occur automatically, the owner must affirmatively assert it (which he does here) AND it must be explicitly retained in the granting deed for the grantor to have any remaining interest in the property.


Smooth. I didn't even think of the specific language regarding right of reentry.

"Subject to" isn't really conditional language, though. "I will buy the property subject to state law" doesn't make the purchase of the property contingent upon state law; it simply says it is subject to state law. "To A for life, then to B, subject to our agreement" doesn't make a condition, either. It means that B's ownership is subject to an agreement, but it doesn't make B's ownership conditional upon the agreement.

Does that make sense?


Makes sense. I swear I had an example in my head where it triggered a condition, but I'm too full and lazy to remember. If I'm not mistaken, you're taking the PA bar, right? Assuming an average score on the MBE, do you have any idea what the average score on your essays need to be to pass? For some reason, I keep getting 12's on my practice essays. I'm wondering that if would be enough to pass.

TheBeard
Posts: 109
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby TheBeard » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:14 pm

Bikeflip wrote:My scores went from the mid 60s to the mid 40s. I'm spending time making outlines and flashcards to help me review the material. How am I getting worse??


Tell me about it. I celebrated a 68% last night on K's after consecutive PQ sessions in the 50s.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:23 pm

TheBeard wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:My scores went from the mid 60s to the mid 40s. I'm spending time making outlines and flashcards to help me review the material. How am I getting worse??


Tell me about it. I celebrated a 68% last night on K's after consecutive PQ sessions in the 50s.



I mean, a handful of those questions I either misread or have a big issue with the wording, but it's frustrating that I can't ge above 60%.

Part of it is that I am over thinking the question. I've missed 4 evidence questions in a row, and I talked myself out of the correct answer of all 4.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:38 pm

TheBeard wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
TheBeard wrote:
According to Themis, only certain words trigger a condition ("on the condition that," "provided that," and "but if"). I agree that "subject to" is conditional language, but not according to Themis. In any event, there's another reason why owner doesn't win: he failed to include specific right of re-entry language in the deed. Remember that unlike reverter and reversion, right of re-entry does not occur automatically, the owner must affirmatively assert it (which he does here) AND it must be explicitly retained in the granting deed for the grantor to have any remaining interest in the property.


Smooth. I didn't even think of the specific language regarding right of reentry.

"Subject to" isn't really conditional language, though. "I will buy the property subject to state law" doesn't make the purchase of the property contingent upon state law; it simply says it is subject to state law. "To A for life, then to B, subject to our agreement" doesn't make a condition, either. It means that B's ownership is subject to an agreement, but it doesn't make B's ownership conditional upon the agreement.

Does that make sense?


Makes sense. I swear I had an example in my head where it triggered a condition, but I'm too full and lazy to remember. If I'm not mistaken, you're taking the PA bar, right? Assuming an average score on the MBE, do you have any idea what the average score on your essays need to be to pass? For some reason, I keep getting 12's on my practice essays. I'm wondering that if would be enough to pass.


I am taking PA. I have no idea what we need to get on essays. I know the PT counts for 1.5x the points as one essay answer, so doing well on that will help, but as far as how much we need to get right on the essays to pass combined with MBE? No idea. I do know from previous bar exams that MBE is more important than essays.... I just don't know why, because I am very shitty at understanding that kind of math. Scaling and scoring and whatnot.

I bet you could ask Kevin Frost.

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:28 pm

Bikeflip wrote: Part of it is that I am over thinking the question. I've missed 4 evidence questions in a row, and I talked myself out of the correct answer of all 4.


I just did the same thing with six con law questions.

Had a minor meltdown on the phone with the bar support teacher from my law school. Her reminder advice was well worth keeping in mind...

...It's a test of minimum competency. If you're hitting the average, assuming 70% of people in your state pass you're still passing by a large margin. And you don't need to-- you need to pass at the 30th percentile, not the 50th.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:37 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:3/5 also. But this Corporations one today was a disaster. I used big long words in place of the rules I didn't know, in the hopes of fooling the grader.


My use of the words "lackadaisically" and "particularized" must have won the day. I honestly just made up the safe harbor rule out of my head. 3/5. This seems like kind of random grading because I actually felt I deserved my other 3s. Is that a pass? Also is anyone else's grader just copying and pasting from the sample answer to explain where/how I messed up?

TheBeard
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby TheBeard » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:13 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
I am taking PA. I have no idea what we need to get on essays. I know the PT counts for 1.5x the points as one essay answer, so doing well on that will help, but as far as how much we need to get right on the essays to pass combined with MBE? No idea. I do know from previous bar exams that MBE is more important than essays.... I just don't know why, because I am very shitty at understanding that kind of math. Scaling and scoring and whatnot.

I bet you could ask Kevin Frost.


Yeah, I'm going to email him. I don't think the MBE can be more important since PA weighs the essays and MBEs at 55% and 45% respectively.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:19 pm

TheBeard wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
I am taking PA. I have no idea what we need to get on essays. I know the PT counts for 1.5x the points as one essay answer, so doing well on that will help, but as far as how much we need to get right on the essays to pass combined with MBE? No idea. I do know from previous bar exams that MBE is more important than essays.... I just don't know why, because I am very shitty at understanding that kind of math. Scaling and scoring and whatnot.

I bet you could ask Kevin Frost.


Yeah, I'm going to email him. I don't think the MBE can be more important since PA weighs the essays and MBEs at 55% and 45% respectively.


Right. But that 55% includes the PT. Not that I know of that makes any difference. I am incredibly confused by how the score is calculated.

TheBeard
Posts: 109
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby TheBeard » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:31 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
TheBeard wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
I am taking PA. I have no idea what we need to get on essays. I know the PT counts for 1.5x the points as one essay answer, so doing well on that will help, but as far as how much we need to get right on the essays to pass combined with MBE? No idea. I do know from previous bar exams that MBE is more important than essays.... I just don't know why, because I am very shitty at understanding that kind of math. Scaling and scoring and whatnot.

I bet you could ask Kevin Frost.


Yeah, I'm going to email him. I don't think the MBE can be more important since PA weighs the essays and MBEs at 55% and 45% respectively.


Right. But that 55% includes the PT. Not that I know of that makes any difference. I am incredibly confused by how the score is calculated.


Yeah, me too.




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