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forza
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby forza » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:11 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Reasonable minds may differ on this, but for a necessity defense it has to be a severe need, and your car being damaged isn;t one of those in my mind.


Even if that's how the defense should be understood, isn't that met here? The classic example is the boat slamming against the dock in the rainstorm. I feel like not having your car flooded underwater is exactly analogous--it even uses the same potential natural disaster. And of course, if your trespass by necessity causes any damages to the landowner, you've got to pay them.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:21 pm

forza wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Reasonable minds may differ on this, but for a necessity defense it has to be a severe need, and your car being damaged isn;t one of those in my mind.


Even if that's how the defense should be understood, isn't that met here? The classic example is the boat slamming against the dock in the rainstorm. I feel like not having your car flooded underwater is exactly analogous--it even uses the same potential natural disaster. And of course, if your trespass by necessity causes any damages to the landowner, you've got to pay them.


The classic boat example works because the DEFENDANT would die in the storm if he didnt land his boat, not his BOAT would be destroyed. I guess I don't see the severity requirement met when its a piece of property and not a person in danger.

antonious13
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby antonious13 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:46 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
forza wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Reasonable minds may differ on this, but for a necessity defense it has to be a severe need, and your car being damaged isn;t one of those in my mind.


Even if that's how the defense should be understood, isn't that met here? The classic example is the boat slamming against the dock in the rainstorm. I feel like not having your car flooded underwater is exactly analogous--it even uses the same potential natural disaster. And of course, if your trespass by necessity causes any damages to the landowner, you've got to pay them.


The classic boat example works because the DEFENDANT would die in the storm if he didnt land his boat, not his BOAT would be destroyed. I guess I don't see the severity requirement met when its a piece of property and not a person in danger.


I thought the part of the boat case was that the owner of the dock couldn't go out and untie the boat, but the boat owner had to pay for dock damages. Maybe I'm misremembering.

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:12 pm

antonious13 wrote:
I thought the part of the boat case was that the owner of the dock couldn't go out and untie the boat, but the boat owner had to pay for dock damages. Maybe I'm misremembering.


That is my understanding as well.

barbelldreams wrote:The classic boat example works because the DEFENDANT would die in the storm if he didnt land his boat, not his BOAT would be destroyed. I guess I don't see the severity requirement met when its a piece of property and not a person in danger.


From the Themis outline: "A defendant who acts to prevent a threatened injury from some source of nature or other independent cause that is not connected with the plaintiff is said to be acting under necessity. Defendants acting under necessity have the right to use the property of others to save their own lives or more valuable property."

Here, the defendant was acting to prevent threatened water damage to his car due to flooding by nature, which was not caused by the plaintiff.

This same page in the outline lists the boat example, and points out that the boat is valuable and will be damaged or destroyed in the storm.

I guess it could also be argued that the defendant here could have been killed if he had continued to drive in rising flood waters...

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:31 pm

You're right, I guess I missed the valuable property part. Strange cause given that there would only be nominal damages to the owner basically damage to ANY property would outweigh the damage of leaving the property for a short period of time. Either way 35/50 on the Milestone, feeling kinda "meh" about it. The property ones weren't as terrible as everyone on here made them out to be, but some were so damn long I lost track of what was happening by the end. Also, I always have and always will suck at ConLaw. I don't freaking know what Congress can and cant do without presidential approval through committees. just don't :)

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:37 pm

The con law questions destroyed me. I will accept my 34 because clearly I have no idea what's going on with that subject.

I didn't think property was all that bad either, but that's my favorite subject. The only one I had any trouble with involved a lengthy fact pattern about purchase options and from what I managed to gather from the facts the party seeking specific performance *didn't have an option.* But the answers said the company did so I guess I just can't read anymore. Read it twice and still couldn't figure out what was going on.

I would still love an explanation of "Average Ranking" if any of you have one. It's different than "National Average" and already exists for milestone exams that aren't yet available.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:12 pm

You brehs were right about Clark's evidence lectures. SOOO LONGWINDED

antonious13
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby antonious13 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:58 pm

Bikeflip wrote:You brehs were right about Clark's evidence lectures. SOOO LONGWINDED


The vids are pretty damn short though, especially at 2x. IMO, you only really need to pay attention either in the first half of filling out the handout, or the last half when he does the review questions. I found doing both to be kinda useless.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:10 am

antonious13 wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:You brehs were right about Clark's evidence lectures. SOOO LONGWINDED


The vids are pretty damn short though, especially at 2x. IMO, you only really need to pay attention either in the first half of filling out the handout, or the last half when he does the review questions. I found doing both to be kinda useless.



I've been listening to the first half. I'm happy as hell I took Trial Ad and Evidence. I can fill out the handout before the lecture and breeze through this stuff.

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elysiansmiles
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby elysiansmiles » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:03 am

I hate short videos with long handouts and lots of blanks. I'm doing partnerships right now, and I'm on a 13 minute video with 6 pages of handout and probably 70 blanks to fill in. I can't speed up, and I still have to pause and rewind frequently because while I'm writing one blank she'll say another and I'll miss it. It is making this 13 minute video take forever.

Citizen Genet
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Citizen Genet » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:23 am

20 Questions into a Property MBE practice and I think I have answered two correctly so far.... I've normally done alright (high 60s to low 80s) but I am getting absolutely owned right now.

TheBeard
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby TheBeard » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:01 am

Soooo, my answer to the graded essay (New Jersey torts) matched Themis' model answer very closely as to two out of the three major issues. I ran out of time on the third issue, so I understand why I would not get 4+ out of 6, but to get a 2.5 out of 6 where I covered everything on the checklist and matched their model answer? No helpful feedback as to why I scored so low other than I blended some rules and analysis to avoid having a 10 sentence rule on negligence for children. I get it, you're going to grade harder than the graders will (have you seen the model answers for NJ?), but come on, let me get something helpful out of it.

Sorry, rant of the day for me.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:12 am

My grader sent me a sentence on every issue, my fiancee got 2 paragraphs per issue. Its the luck of the draw with graders.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:28 am

TheBeard wrote:Soooo, my answer to the graded essay (New Jersey torts) matched Themis' model answer very closely as to two out of the three major issues. I ran out of time on the third issue, so I understand why I would not get 4+ out of 6, but to get a 2.5 out of 6 where I covered everything on the checklist and matched their model answer? No helpful feedback as to why I scored so low other than I blended some rules and analysis to avoid having a 10 sentence rule on negligence for children. I get it, you're going to grade harder than the graders will (have you seen the model answers for NJ?), but come on, let me get something helpful out of it.

Sorry, rant of the day for me.


Jesus, the answers for New Jersey make me terrified about the NJ legal system. For those of you not doing NJ, the model answers for PA are written by the bar examiners and are overly thorough and all that, but for the New Jersey essays, instead of giving "model answers" they give us actual answers by actual bar takers that are closest to correct, and so many of them are straight up fucking stupid. I get it if you don't remember the law and you have to make shit up, that's fine, but you know, learn to put a sentence together.

Re: the problem with the grade - Maybe email him/her for clarification?

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:20 pm

elysiansmiles wrote:I'm doing partnerships right now, and I'm on a 13 minute video with 6 pages of handout and probably 70 blanks to fill in. I can't speed up, and I still have to pause and rewind frequently because while I'm writing one blank she'll say another and I'll miss it. It is making this 13 minute video take forever.


You don't have Birdthistle? :(

Is anybody else having days when you just can't get motivated to do anything and have to force your way through it? I'm at the point today where "you only want to have to do it once" means nothing to me. I started early and am at 30%... makes me want to just stop. -_-

How do you motivate yourself when all you want to do is sleep?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:28 pm

I take one day a week completely off. Its how I did it all through LS and it just works for me. Today is that day. I'm playing Dishonored and watching game 7 of the NBA playoffs.

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geekrocker37
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby geekrocker37 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:33 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:I take one day a week completely off. Its how I did it all through LS and it just works for me. Today is that day. I'm playing Dishonored and watching game 7 of the NBA playoffs.


I have Dishonored waiting for me as my next study break videogame.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:37 pm

geekrocker37 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:I take one day a week completely off. Its how I did it all through LS and it just works for me. Today is that day. I'm playing Dishonored and watching game 7 of the NBA playoffs.


I have Dishonored waiting for me as my next study break videogame.


Its pretty damn good so far, though I dont use it as a study break game simply because its pointless to play if you have less than an hour at a time. Depending on how long you make your breaks it may be annoying to just pause or save in the middle of missions. My brain is fried, I'm at 26% which I am fine with, and I will be playing a LOT of video games today.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:04 pm

I finally did the Milestone Exam #1. 38 out of 50 and I missed a couple Con Law, a couple Torts, and the rest Property.

Thoroughly disagree with some of the Torts answers.

TheBeard
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby TheBeard » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:16 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
TheBeard wrote:Soooo, my answer to the graded essay (New Jersey torts) matched Themis' model answer very closely as to two out of the three major issues. I ran out of time on the third issue, so I understand why I would not get 4+ out of 6, but to get a 2.5 out of 6 where I covered everything on the checklist and matched their model answer? No helpful feedback as to why I scored so low other than I blended some rules and analysis to avoid having a 10 sentence rule on negligence for children. I get it, you're going to grade harder than the graders will (have you seen the model answers for NJ?), but come on, let me get something helpful out of it.

Sorry, rant of the day for me.


Jesus, the answers for New Jersey make me terrified about the NJ legal system. For those of you not doing NJ, the model answers for PA are written by the bar examiners and are overly thorough and all that, but for the New Jersey essays, instead of giving "model answers" they give us actual answers by actual bar takers that are closest to correct, and so many of them are straight up fucking stupid. I get it if you don't remember the law and you have to make shit up, that's fine, but you know, learn to put a sentence together.

Re: the problem with the grade - Maybe email him/her for clarification?


Meh, after looking at it again I'm satisfied that it would've been at least a 4 in NJ given their standards and the answer checklist. This grader is just trying to scare me. Let him/her stroke his/her ego, I just care about passing.

JD_done
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby JD_done » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:21 pm

Is anybody else having days when you just can't get motivated to do anything and have to force your way through it? I'm at the point today where "you only want to have to do it once" means nothing to me. I started early and am at 30%... makes me want to just stop. -_-

How do you motivate yourself when all you want to do is sleep?[/quote]

I've had several days like this. I take a break, go for a run, see some friends or just get out and run some errands for a change of scenery. I think the break clears my head and I can go back to studying. I also end some days early if I just can't focus. there's no point trying to cram the info into my head if it's just not happening. I try and study extra hours on days I feel very focused and energized.
I also take a full day off each week.
That being said, I haven't passed or taken a bar exam yet so take it for what it's worth.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:34 pm

The Supreme Court's decision on Monday in Salinas v. Texas has changed things regarding using silence against a criminal defendant. Are we to apply it to our answers, or no? Anybody know?

Themis?

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:37 pm

I have been taking Saturdays off. I'm feeling a little better as it gets closer to afternoon-- the outlines take it out of me.

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HETPE3B
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby HETPE3B » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:41 pm

locusdelicti wrote:The Supreme Court's decision on Monday in Salinas v. Texas has changed things regarding using silence against a criminal defendant. Are we to apply it to our answers, or no? Anybody know?

Themis?

Was wondering same thing about other upcoming decisions that are likely to change the current law (gay marriage, affirmative action).

Do bar examiners simply avoid asking questions in these areas or are they fair game?

missinglink
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby missinglink » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:45 pm

HETPE3B wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:The Supreme Court's decision on Monday in Salinas v. Texas has changed things regarding using silence against a criminal defendant. Are we to apply it to our answers, or no? Anybody know?

Themis?

Was wondering same thing about other upcoming decisions that are likely to change the current law (gay marriage, affirmative action).

Do bar examiners simply avoid asking questions in these areas or are they fair game?


I find it impossible to believe that we have to incorporate law that just came down. Questions and answers to bar questions have already been written and vetted. To just change an answer at this point to incorporate new law seems impossible.




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