.

User avatar
Bikeflip
Posts: 1833
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:01 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:19 pm

Is anyone else running out of time on the graded essays but not on the non-graded ones? I felt that torts essay today was an issue spotter strait out of 1L, and I exceeded the character limit.

The non-graded ones, I can finish with 5 minutes to spare. I write about 20% less an answer that's in the same ballpark as the model answer.

Also props to the Themis state people. The Colorado person personally emailed me to correct a previous answer.

User avatar
BarbellDreams
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:08 pm

I had 9 seconds left when I finished my graded essay last time.

User avatar
Holly Golightly
Posts: 4618
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:30 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Holly Golightly » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:27 pm

CyLaw wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:I think I'm going to fill out the evidence handouts on my own. I already know most of this anyway, and I really can't handle how boring this dude is.


Are you running at 2x? This has solved the boredom issues for me on my lectures.

Yes, I did them all at 2x and he was still insanely slow and boring. And repeated everything about 5 times. Luckily I'm past them now, but it was unbearable.

locusdelicti
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:01 pm

I'm going over on my essays because I'm doing them open book and I'm looking through everything, at least for now until I remember the rules of law better.

The graded essays, I'm skating in with seconds to spare. Oy.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:24 pm

I've been running over time because I'm more focused on learning the stock phrasing. Once I get that down, my time will speed up.

User avatar
Bikeflip
Posts: 1833
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:01 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:06 pm

kalvano wrote:I've been running over time because I'm more focused on learning the stock phrasing. Once I get that down, my time will speed up.


That's probably a smarter way to do it. I'm getting the material into the essay, but my writing is sloppy. Quantity over quality.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:34 pm

It just seems like there are lots more points on the bar exam than on a law school exam for putting down the obvious points of law, and that certain things are sure to come up: DTPA in Consumer Law, forgery in Commercial Paper. I'd like to learn those things now.

User avatar
elysiansmiles
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby elysiansmiles » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:22 pm

Hey! I just saw this thread and really enjoyed reading all of it as a study break. Glad to see someone else who enjoyed that property guy's story about the plumber as much as I did!

User avatar
elysiansmiles
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby elysiansmiles » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:28 pm

Bikeflip wrote:Is anyone else running out of time on the graded essays but not on the non-graded ones? I felt that torts essay today was an issue spotter strait out of 1L, and I exceeded the character limit.

The non-graded ones, I can finish with 5 minutes to spare. I write about 20% less an answer that's in the same ballpark as the model answer.


Ugh, I did a non-graded torts essay today that had like 20 issues in it. In the allotted time, I basically only made a list of the issues. I didn't even get all of them! I wonder if it was the same as your graded one? Before that, I had one where I spent like all the time describing contributory negligence in the most eloquent way possible, cause it was basically the only issue. I'm actually a little scared after that issue-spotter to do the graded torts essay I was assigned today.

User avatar
Bustang
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:26 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bustang » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:44 pm

Consumer law seems "easy," but there are a litany of little details to remember. I went 2 minutes over today on my consumer law graded essay and I consider myself a very fast typist. The 30 minute limit really puts a hamper on your organization and thought processing abilities.

User avatar
Bikeflip
Posts: 1833
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:01 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:05 pm

elysiansmiles wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:Is anyone else running out of time on the graded essays but not on the non-graded ones? I felt that torts essay today was an issue spotter strait out of 1L, and I exceeded the character limit.

The non-graded ones, I can finish with 5 minutes to spare. I write about 20% less an answer that's in the same ballpark as the model answer.


Ugh, I did a non-graded torts essay today that had like 20 issues in it. In the allotted time, I basically only made a list of the issues. I didn't even get all of them! I wonder if it was the same as your graded one? Before that, I had one where I spent like all the time describing contributory negligence in the most eloquent way possible, cause it was basically the only issue. I'm actually a little scared after that issue-spotter to do the graded torts essay I was assigned today.


The non-graded double set about where 1 essay was about defamation and conversion and the other essay was about trespassing and injury? I did those today, too. They were race-horse questions. As such, I'm gonna back track my comments about graded v non graded. Essays suck.

Karlan for Crim Law's my new favorite prof. Mad Men spoilers, haha.

User avatar
CaliBum
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:16 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby CaliBum » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:34 am

So bummed :cry: I couldn't complete the prop graded essay on time, and I definitely know that I would not have been able to answer any of it without my prop notes at hand. How the heck did the people who passed remember all of this?!

User avatar
forza
Posts: 2785
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:32 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby forza » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:06 am

Thank God for criminal law's easy-as-shittedness as an MBE subject.

jerwood84
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:10 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby jerwood84 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:44 am

Is the National Average score regarding the MBE PQ's an average derived from years prior leading up to now? Or is this the current national average for this bar study round? The percentages don't change leading me to believe these are averages from years past.

Also, I too did the non-graded double tort essays (defamation/privacy in workplace essay and trespassingclutsy golf woman essay) and had to race like a made man to finish. But other essays I had time to stop, think, ponder, rephrase, rearrange. What's with the disparity between race horses and single issue block essays. I'm taking the Uniform Bar Exam for Missouri. What the hell is Uniform about it!

On another note, I can't believe Alaska has "Bird Law" as a tested state law area.

locusdelicti
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:10 am

CaliBum wrote:So bummed :cry: I couldn't complete the prop graded essay on time, and I definitely know that I would not have been able to answer any of it without my prop notes at hand. How the heck did the people who passed remember all of this?!


You'll be surprised what you remember on the day, when you have to.

ETA: You don't need to get every single point - try to remember that, too. It's okay if you miss a couple. You can still pass.

User avatar
Niddar
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:11 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Niddar » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:36 pm

I'm not sure if I missed this in a themis lecture or not, but what should we be shooting for with regards to MBE scores. I'm doing NJ/PA -- NJ is 50/50 and PA is 45 MBE/55 PT and Essay. When doing the questions Themis says the goal is 50%, but this can't be right. I'm getting around ~60% MBE total and I think I should be doing better.

Also, any idea on what we should be shooting for w/r/t essays? I got 3/6 on the first practice and I'm not sure if that is objectively good. I know the answer really is as good as you can, for both, but just looking for realistically what is needed to pass. I asked my Themis adviser and his response was "do the best that you can lolz!"

Thanks dudes

missinglink
Posts: 946
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:49 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby missinglink » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:18 pm

My daily venting about the quality of some of the MBE problems, this one for torts:

A well-known politician was scheduled to address a large crowd at a political dinner. Just as he was about to sit down at the head table, the defendant pushed the politician's chair to one side. As a result, the politician fell to the floor. The politician was embarrassed at being made to look foolish before a large audience but suffered no physical harm. If the politician asserts a claim against the defendant for damages because of his embarrassment, will the politician prevail?
A. Yes, if the defendant knew that the politician was about to sit on the chair.
B. Yes, if the defendant negligently failed to notice that the politician was about to sit on the chair.
C. No, because the politician suffered no physical harm along with his embarrassment.
D. No, if in moving the chair the defendant intended only a good-natured practical joke on the politician.

Incorrect: Answer choice A is correct. Intentional infliction of emotional distress is the use of extreme and outrageous conduct to intentionally or recklessly inflict severe emotional distress. While the defendant's behavior in some circumstances may not constitute extreme and outrageous conduct, it is likely that pulling out a well-known politician's chair causing him to fall in front of a large crowd he was about to address would establish that requisite element. Even if the defendant's embarrassment does not rise to the level of severe emotional distress, it is the best answer choice provided.


Sorry, but this is a terrible question. IIED? There's nothing even remotely approaching "extreme and outrageous conduct" causing "severe emotional distress." Embarrassment and severe emotional distress are not, to my mind, synonymous.

User avatar
Reinhardt
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:27 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Reinhardt » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:12 pm

67% on the MBE is about median I believe.

locusdelicti
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:33 pm

Niddar wrote:I'm not sure if I missed this in a themis lecture or not, but what should we be shooting for with regards to MBE scores. I'm doing NJ/PA -- NJ is 50/50 and PA is 45 MBE/55 PT and Essay. When doing the questions Themis says the goal is 50%, but this can't be right. I'm getting around ~60% MBE total and I think I should be doing better.

Also, any idea on what we should be shooting for w/r/t essays? I got 3/6 on the first practice and I'm not sure if that is objectively good. I know the answer really is as good as you can, for both, but just looking for realistically what is needed to pass. I asked my Themis adviser and his response was "do the best that you can lolz!"

Thanks dudes


I'm doing PA/NJ too, and I'm about in the same spot with my scores on MBE and essay.

Didn't the NJ essay lecture lady say we need 120 right on the MBE to pass? I'm not sure what that means with regard to how well you need to do on essays, or what it means for PA. The scoring is over my head. Math is for chumps.

User avatar
Agoraphobia
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:30 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:40 pm

Hey, I'm doing Themis also. Thanks for all the tips so far!

Am I the only one completely baffled by property? I didn't even get half the MBE questions (these are the first 17 - it was close to half, 47% but I was shocked my score was this high... seemed like I was only getting about 1/4 questions as I took them). Should I be worried? Says that the average score is 58%.

I don't think our professor even taught us most of this. Or if he did, I don't remember!

GertrudePerkins
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:38 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby GertrudePerkins » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:55 pm

missinglink wrote:My daily venting about the quality of some of the MBE problems, this one for torts:

A well-known politician was scheduled to address a large crowd at a political dinner. Just as he was about to sit down at the head table, the defendant pushed the politician's chair to one side. As a result, the politician fell to the floor. The politician was embarrassed at being made to look foolish before a large audience but suffered no physical harm. If the politician asserts a claim against the defendant for damages because of his embarrassment, will the politician prevail?
A. Yes, if the defendant knew that the politician was about to sit on the chair.
B. Yes, if the defendant negligently failed to notice that the politician was about to sit on the chair.
C. No, because the politician suffered no physical harm along with his embarrassment.
D. No, if in moving the chair the defendant intended only a good-natured practical joke on the politician.

Incorrect: Answer choice A is correct. Intentional infliction of emotional distress is the use of extreme and outrageous conduct to intentionally or recklessly inflict severe emotional distress. While the defendant's behavior in some circumstances may not constitute extreme and outrageous conduct, it is likely that pulling out a well-known politician's chair causing him to fall in front of a large crowd he was about to address would establish that requisite element. Even if the defendant's embarrassment does not rise to the level of severe emotional distress, it is the best answer choice provided.


Sorry, but this is a terrible question. IIED? There's nothing even remotely approaching "extreme and outrageous conduct" causing "severe emotional distress." Embarrassment and severe emotional distress are not, to my mind, synonymous.
I will second your irritation. The other kind of MBE question that really irritates me is con law questions in which the issue of compelling state interest or narrow tailoring -- both of which would be briefed and argued extensively in a real case -- are perfunctorily treated as *obviously* present/absent.

GertrudePerkins
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:38 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby GertrudePerkins » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:58 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:Hey, I'm doing Themis also. Thanks for all the tips so far!

Am I the only one completely baffled by property? I didn't even get half the MBE questions (these are the first 17 - it was close to half, 47% but I was shocked my score was this high... seemed like I was only getting about 1/4 questions as I took them). Should I be worried? Says that the average score is 58%.

I don't think our professor even taught us most of this. Or if he did, I don't remember!
There are definitely some issues in the MBE questions that were not covered in the lectures (assuming you had Kramer as well). Which is annoying, but at least it's not that you're simply forgetting stuff you've been taught! It also means you'll learn more as you go through more MBE questions and your score will likely pick up.

antonious13
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:51 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby antonious13 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:35 pm

CaliBum wrote:So bummed :cry: I couldn't complete the prop graded essay on time, and I definitely know that I would not have been able to answer any of it without my prop notes at hand. How the heck did the people who passed remember all of this?!


I looked back at my notes during the essay, and I still boned up the law. I actually got a bit depressed after looking at my graded answer. Feeling like worthless garbage after a property essay is normal, right? :(

User avatar
forza
Posts: 2785
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:32 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby forza » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:02 pm

*CRIM PRO SPOILER*

Dat Themis wrote:19. (Question ID#427)
A police officer obtained a valid warrant to arrest a woman for misdemeanor theft. Having probable cause to believe that the woman was spending the afternoon at a friend's house, the officer went to the friend's house to serve the warrant. No one responded to the officer's knocking or to his identification of himself as a police officer. The officer, finding the door unlocked, opened the door and entered the house. Once in the house, the officer found the woman hiding in a bedroom closet. The woman was properly charged with misdemeanor theft. She sought dismissal of the case against her due the manner of her arrest.

Should the court dismiss the charges against the woman?
A. No, because the officer arrested the woman pursuant to a valid arrest warrant.
B. No, because the woman was properly charged with misdemeanor theft.
C. Yes, because the officer's arrest of the woman at her friend's house was illegal.
D. Yes, because the officer could not arrest the woman for a misdemeanor unless the misdemeanor occurred in the officer's presence.

Incorrect: Answer choice B is correct. An illegal arrest does not prevent the subsequent prosecution of the person who is illegally arrested. While evidence seized as a consequence of an illegal arrest may be suppressed under the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine, and the charge may be thrown out if such evidence is necessary for conviction, that is not the case under these facts. Answer choice A is incorrect because, although the woman was arrested pursuant to a valid arrest warrant, the arrest was illegally effected because the officer arrested the woman at the home of her friend. Since the officer did not have a warrant to search for the woman at her friend's home, his arrest of the woman there was illegal. Answer choice C is incorrect because, although the arrest was illegal as noted in answer choice B, the illegal arrest does not prevent the prosecution of the woman for misdemeanor theft. Answer choice D is incorrect because, since the officer had an arrest warrant, he could arrest the woman for a misdemeanor that did not occur in his presence.


Wait WTF at the bolded, Batman? Cops can't execute an arrest warrant anywhere but the perp's home? Even if they have probable cause to believe the perp is at her friend's?

Shit.

EDIT: I'm a moron. Needed a search warrant too. Dunce cap on.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:07 pm

How are you to Crim Pro already? That's not for a while for me on the Texas schedule. I'm jealous.




Return to “Bar Exam Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests