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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:29 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
elysiansmiles wrote:
kalvano wrote:In practice, if anyone ever tells me "I have a deed to such-and-such property, but I haven't recorded it yet...," I am going to punch them square in the face.


"I just put it in my drawer/safe deposit box/never picked it up from my rich uncle's house, and forgot I had it. Come to think of it, I haven't been down to that land in [number of year required for adverse possession plus 1], so I might want to go check it out."


Old Man: "I want my daughter to have this house, but if she ever wears a yellow dress, I want my grandchildren's pet cats who reach the age of 23 to have it, because no reason, but if any of the cats have kittens, then I want it to go back to my dead daughter's estate. can I do that?"

Lawyer: "...you could just deed it to your daughter."

Old Man: "But the cats."

Lawyer: "..."

Old Man: "Ok, here's my deed. Take this but don't give it to my daughter yet because I still might change my mind, and I'm 95 but I don't have a will. Oh, and I described the property using hand gestures; I hope that's enough. I can't remember the metes and bounds, or my address."

*dies*

Daughter: "GIMME MY HOUSE."

Cats: "GIMME MY EXECUTORY INTEREST."

Executor: "RAP."

Lawyer: "Kill me."


I lol'ed REALLY hard at this. I'm losin' it haha.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:44 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
antonious13 wrote:
forza wrote:Lol at NY's DOOMSDAY instructions. QUIET SNACKS ONLY, people.

Settled on Swedish fish. If the kid next to me gets away with cashews, sun chips or hot and spicy cheezits (my faves), I'm gonna rage.


You guys get snacks?!


Where are you? Many places are getting snacks.


We can't even have bottled water. Even though it's supposed to be 102 out.

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elysiansmiles
Posts: 78
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby elysiansmiles » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:45 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
elysiansmiles wrote:
kalvano wrote:In practice, if anyone ever tells me "I have a deed to such-and-such property, but I haven't recorded it yet...," I am going to punch them square in the face.


"I just put it in my drawer/safe deposit box/never picked it up from my rich uncle's house, and forgot I had it. Come to think of it, I haven't been down to that land in [number of year required for adverse possession plus 1], so I might want to go check it out."


Old Man: "I want my daughter to have this house, but if she ever wears a yellow dress, I want my grandchildren's pet cats who reach the age of 23 to have it, because no reason, but if any of the cats have kittens, then I want it to go back to my dead daughter's estate. can I do that?"

Lawyer: "...you could just deed it to your daughter."

Old Man: "But the cats."

Lawyer: "..."

Old Man: "Ok, here's my deed. Take this but don't give it to my daughter yet because I still might change my mind, and I'm 95 but I don't have a will. Oh, and I described the property using hand gestures; I hope that's enough. I can't remember the metes and bounds, or my address."

*dies*

Daughter: "GIMME MY HOUSE."

Cats: "GIMME MY EXECUTORY INTEREST."

Executor: "RAP."

Lawyer: "Kill me."


It's all fun and games until the daughter (or the cats?) also try to claim the law review writing prize offered by the faculty.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:53 pm

elysiansmiles wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
elysiansmiles wrote:
kalvano wrote:In practice, if anyone ever tells me "I have a deed to such-and-such property, but I haven't recorded it yet...," I am going to punch them square in the face.


"I just put it in my drawer/safe deposit box/never picked it up from my rich uncle's house, and forgot I had it. Come to think of it, I haven't been down to that land in [number of year required for adverse possession plus 1], so I might want to go check it out."


Old Man: "I want my daughter to have this house, but if she ever wears a yellow dress, I want my grandchildren's pet cats who reach the age of 23 to have it, because no reason, but if any of the cats have kittens, then I want it to go back to my dead daughter's estate. can I do that?"

Lawyer: "...you could just deed it to your daughter."

Old Man: "But the cats."

Lawyer: "..."

Old Man: "Ok, here's my deed. Take this but don't give it to my daughter yet because I still might change my mind, and I'm 95 but I don't have a will. Oh, and I described the property using hand gestures; I hope that's enough. I can't remember the metes and bounds, or my address."

*dies*

Daughter: "GIMME MY HOUSE."

Cats: "GIMME MY EXECUTORY INTEREST."

Executor: "RAP."

Lawyer: "Kill me."


It's all fun and games until the daughter (or the cats?) also try to claim the law review writing prize offered by the faculty.


Which apparently can be claimed, just in case either one dies, by their estate.

locusdelicti
Posts: 225
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:02 pm

elysiansmiles wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
elysiansmiles wrote:
kalvano wrote:In practice, if anyone ever tells me "I have a deed to such-and-such property, but I haven't recorded it yet...," I am going to punch them square in the face.


"I just put it in my drawer/safe deposit box/never picked it up from my rich uncle's house, and forgot I had it. Come to think of it, I haven't been down to that land in [number of year required for adverse possession plus 1], so I might want to go check it out."


Old Man: "I want my daughter to have this house, but if she ever wears a yellow dress, I want my grandchildren's pet cats who reach the age of 23 to have it, because no reason, but if any of the cats have kittens, then I want it to go back to my dead daughter's estate. can I do that?"

Lawyer: "...you could just deed it to your daughter."

Old Man: "But the cats."

Lawyer: "..."

Old Man: "Ok, here's my deed. Take this but don't give it to my daughter yet because I still might change my mind, and I'm 95 but I don't have a will. Oh, and I described the property using hand gestures; I hope that's enough. I can't remember the metes and bounds, or my address."

*dies*

Daughter: "GIMME MY HOUSE."

Cats: "GIMME MY EXECUTORY INTEREST."

Executor: "RAP."

Lawyer: "Kill me."


It's all fun and games until the daughter (or the cats?) also try to claim the law review writing prize offered by the faculty.


Or the cats try to sell their interest while the daughter puts three mortgages on the property so she can finance her new business venture and the three banks all record out of order, and then the daughter sells the property subject to the mortgage but without an assumption of mortgage, but the cats already sold it to a BFP.

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CaliBum
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby CaliBum » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:10 pm

Stop it. All of you. I can't stand this.

BTW, if the cats attack the creditors that trespass onto the property before they foreclose and the daughter knew that the cats were grumpy, would she be strictly liable?

releasethehounds
Posts: 163
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:15 pm

kalvano wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:
antonious13 wrote:
forza wrote:Lol at NY's DOOMSDAY instructions. QUIET SNACKS ONLY, people.

Settled on Swedish fish. If the kid next to me gets away with cashews, sun chips or hot and spicy cheezits (my faves), I'm gonna rage.


You guys get snacks?!


Where are you? Many places are getting snacks.


We can't even have bottled water. Even though it's supposed to be 102 out.



Same. We aren't allowed snacks or anything to drink (but there's water fountains which won't...y'know...be distracting at ALL), and the high Tuesday is supposed to beeee....105. Wednesday is 109. And because it's 105-109, you can't leave any food in your car because it's just going to be disgusting by the time you get back to it. Also not allowed to bring in any bags--there's no storage area at all outside of the room where you can keep bags, which only bothers me because carrying a computer around and no case is just annoying.

Positive side: convention center is in downtown phoenix, so at least there's plenty of places to eat.
Negative side: I'll have to leave my cellphone in my car, and my phone gets mad and refuses to work if it gets too hot. iPhones.
Bun to the positive sandwich: it's still also not Virginia so I don't have to wear a suit.

locusdelicti
Posts: 225
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:17 pm

CaliBum wrote:Stop it. All of you. I can't stand this.

BTW, if the cats attack the creditors that trespass onto the property before they foreclose and the daughter knew that the cats were grumpy, would she be strictly liable?


Not if the creditors were undiscovered trespassers - then she's only strictly liable if it's a vicious watchdog. Cat.

mrpickles
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:20 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby mrpickles » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:19 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
TheBeard wrote:***SPOILER ALERT*** Criminal Law Set 3

A man knew that his uncle regularly withdrew a large amount of cash from a bank and that his uncle was usually not very careful in watching over the money as he made his way home. The man hatched a plan with two friends to steal the money from his uncle. One of the friends purchased a ski mask with which he intended to conceal his face during the heist. A few hours before the event was to occur, the man, deciding to call the whole thing off, told his friends not to go through with the plan. Nevertheless the friends followed the uncle from the bank and successfully absconded with the bag of money without the uncle being the wiser for several minutes. They were subsequently arrested and revealed the man's involvement in the plot. The man was arrested. The applicable jurisdiction has adopted the Model Penal Code. Under the Code, theft is defined as "unlawfully taking, or exercising unlawful control over, movable property of another with purpose to deprive him thereof." The crimes below are listed in descending order of seriousness. What is the most serious listed for which the man can be convicted?

Answer Choices
A. Theft
B. Conspiracy
C. Solicitation
D. No crime


Answer choice B is correct. Conspiracy is defined as an agreement between two or more persons to accomplish an unlawful purpose, with the intent to accomplish that purpose. The Model Penal Code (MPC) adds the requirement that a conspiracy must be perfected by an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy. Here, the friend's purchase of the ski mask is sufficient to constitute such an overt act. The MPC allows withdrawal from a conspiracy after the performance of an overt act, but the defendant must thwart the performance of the planned crimes. Here, the defendant failed to do so, and therefore is guilty of conspiracy. Answer choice A is incorrect because, while the man's withdrawal from the conspiracy was not sufficient to eliminate his liability for the conspiracy itself, it is effective with regard to the substantive crime of theft committed by his two friends. Answer choice C is incorrect, because, although the man is guilty of solicitation, he is also guilty of conspiracy, which is the more serious crime. Although the MPC permits a defendant to effectively renounce solicitation, the defendant must thwart the performance of the solicited crimes, which the man did not do. Answer choice D is incorrect since the man is guilty of both solicitation and conspiracy.


Okay, so I agree that he's guilty of conspiracy because his repudiation was insufficient in this case after the overt act had been committed. My problem here is that the most serious crime he can be convicted for is theft because he didn't do enough to withdraw his participation as an accomplice. In other words, what did he do to countermand his prior assistance (i.e. telling them about his uncle's tendencies and hatching a plan). Any help?


I'm with you. I don't think his telling them not to do it anymore was sufficient to withdraw as an accomplice. He didn't do everything possible to countermand simply by telling them not to do it. What he did seems more like change of heart, which isn't enough. Lame.


I just had this on Mixed MBE 11 and haven't had it before. Did a search and lead me to that post from end of June. I've read the answer over and over. How is he guilty of conspiracy but not of the substantive crimes of the conspiracy? Isn't that...what...conspiracy lets you do?
If his withdrawal was insufficient - as the first overt had already happened and he didn't help police thwart it, then how is not guilty of larceny? So could anyone that's in a conspiracy at some point have a change of heart, sit on the sidelines before the real substantial meat of the criminals acts starts, claim withdrawal, and say you're only guilty of conspiracy but not the substantive crime by other co-conspirators?

I almost feel like this constitutes some sort of half withdrawal we haven't learned? Or have we??? I am confused..
Last edited by mrpickles on Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:20 pm

releasethehounds wrote:Same. We aren't allowed snacks or anything to drink (but there's water fountains which won't...y'know...be distracting at ALL), and the high Tuesday is supposed to beeee....105. Wednesday is 109. And because it's 105-109, you can't leave any food in your car because it's just going to be disgusting by the time you get back to it. Also not allowed to bring in any bags--there's no storage area at all outside of the room where you can keep bags, which only bothers me because carrying a computer around and no case is just annoying.



Uncrustables are frozen peanut butter and jelly sandwiches that defrost over the morning, and should be good to go by lunchtime. They are really, really good and you don't have to worry about them spoiling in the car. Alternatively, I am probably going to put a cooler in my backseat with some ice in it just to make sure whatever is in my car isn't spoiled.

releasethehounds
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:11 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:21 pm

Meh. Felt weird about it lookin' odd and braggery.
Last edited by releasethehounds on Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

releasethehounds
Posts: 163
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:23 pm

kalvano wrote:
releasethehounds wrote:Same. We aren't allowed snacks or anything to drink (but there's water fountains which won't...y'know...be distracting at ALL), and the high Tuesday is supposed to beeee....105. Wednesday is 109. And because it's 105-109, you can't leave any food in your car because it's just going to be disgusting by the time you get back to it. Also not allowed to bring in any bags--there's no storage area at all outside of the room where you can keep bags, which only bothers me because carrying a computer around and no case is just annoying.



Uncrustables are frozen peanut butter and jelly sandwiches that defrost over the morning, and should be good to go by lunchtime. They are really, really good and you don't have to worry about them spoiling in the car. Alternatively, I am probably going to put a cooler in my backseat with some ice in it just to make sure whatever is in my car isn't spoiled.



Ooh, nice tip, thank you! I'll probably...just take a granola bar that won't melt and eat it over break. Maybe protein bar. And I'll buy a water somewhere. maybe. My sister works 4 blocks from the test site, maybe I'll just make her take me out to lunch.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:24 pm

releasethehounds wrote:
kalvano wrote:
releasethehounds wrote:Same. We aren't allowed snacks or anything to drink (but there's water fountains which won't...y'know...be distracting at ALL), and the high Tuesday is supposed to beeee....105. Wednesday is 109. And because it's 105-109, you can't leave any food in your car because it's just going to be disgusting by the time you get back to it. Also not allowed to bring in any bags--there's no storage area at all outside of the room where you can keep bags, which only bothers me because carrying a computer around and no case is just annoying.



Uncrustables are frozen peanut butter and jelly sandwiches that defrost over the morning, and should be good to go by lunchtime. They are really, really good and you don't have to worry about them spoiling in the car. Alternatively, I am probably going to put a cooler in my backseat with some ice in it just to make sure whatever is in my car isn't spoiled.



Ooh, nice tip, thank you! I'll probably...just take a granola bar that won't melt and eat it over break. Maybe protein bar. And I'll buy a water somewhere. maybe. My sister works 4 blocks from the test site, maybe I'll just make her take me out to lunch.



I've had several recent test takers tell me not to leave the site. Take that as you will.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:26 pm

kalvano wrote:
releasethehounds wrote:
kalvano wrote:
releasethehounds wrote:Same. We aren't allowed snacks or anything to drink (but there's water fountains which won't...y'know...be distracting at ALL), and the high Tuesday is supposed to beeee....105. Wednesday is 109. And because it's 105-109, you can't leave any food in your car because it's just going to be disgusting by the time you get back to it. Also not allowed to bring in any bags--there's no storage area at all outside of the room where you can keep bags, which only bothers me because carrying a computer around and no case is just annoying.



Uncrustables are frozen peanut butter and jelly sandwiches that defrost over the morning, and should be good to go by lunchtime. They are really, really good and you don't have to worry about them spoiling in the car. Alternatively, I am probably going to put a cooler in my backseat with some ice in it just to make sure whatever is in my car isn't spoiled.



Ooh, nice tip, thank you! I'll probably...just take a granola bar that won't melt and eat it over break. Maybe protein bar. And I'll buy a water somewhere. maybe. My sister works 4 blocks from the test site, maybe I'll just make her take me out to lunch.



I've had several recent test takers tell me not to leave the site. Take that as you will.


It depends on where you are. I plan on leaving the site in Philly. I left the site when I took the Michigan bar and I made it back in time. When I took the TX bar in Austin, I had lunch at Starbucks and made it back in plenty of time. If you know where you are and don't go to a sit down restaurant, you have plenty of time to go get lunch.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:27 pm

PB&J (but homemade..woo!), granola bar, apple, water. I can't believe we are so close. So unfocused tonight, I think I am just going to abandon studying and read in my novel, and make some popcorn.

releasethehounds
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:28 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
It depends on where you are. I plan on leaving the site in Philly. I left the site when I took the Michigan bar and I made it back in time. When I took the TX bar in Austin, I had lunch at Starbucks and made it back in plenty of time. If you know where you are and don't go to a sit down restaurant, you have plenty of time to go get lunch.


Yeah, I was thinking a sandwich shop about three blocks away. Get in, get out, then I'll take the food back to the convention center and eat it there before going back in the room.

releasethehounds
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:30 pm

I'm torn between feeling an odd need to do one more MPT and just...going the hell to bed.

Also now about 90% sure that I'm getting sick.
Last edited by releasethehounds on Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:30 pm

All that's near the Arlington Convention Center is Six Flags, the Ballpark, and some sit-down restaurants. Blah.

lionelhutz123
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby lionelhutz123 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:34 pm

Anyone have a sense of what the area is like around the Saratoga testing center?

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Reinhardt
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Reinhardt » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:34 pm

According to the Model Penal Code, an accomplice can effectively withdraw and avoid criminal liability by doing one of three things:

1) Rendering his prior assistance to the perpetrator completely ineffective;
2) Providing the police with a timely warning of the perpetrator’s plan; or
3) Making a proper effort to prevent the perpetrator from committing the crime.

Still not really clear the guy did withdraw even under the MPC definition.

mrpickles
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:20 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby mrpickles » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:41 pm

Reinhardt wrote:According to the Model Penal Code, an accomplice can effectively withdraw and avoid criminal liability by doing one of three things:

1) Rendering his prior assistance to the perpetrator completely ineffective;
2) Providing the police with a timely warning of the perpetrator’s plan; or
3) Making a proper effort to prevent the perpetrator from committing the crime.

Still not really clear the guy did withdraw even under the MPC definition.


Agreed. My issue is that..the answer even says he failed to withdraw? So then how is he guilty of the conspiracy but not larceny?
"The MPC allows withdrawal from a conspiracy after the performance of an overt act, but the defendant must thwart the performance of the planned crimes. Here, the defendant failed to do so, and therefore is guilty of conspiracy."

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:43 pm

mrpickles wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:According to the Model Penal Code, an accomplice can effectively withdraw and avoid criminal liability by doing one of three things:

1) Rendering his prior assistance to the perpetrator completely ineffective;
2) Providing the police with a timely warning of the perpetrator’s plan; or
3) Making a proper effort to prevent the perpetrator from committing the crime.

Still not really clear the guy did withdraw even under the MPC definition.


Agreed. My issue is that..the answer even says he failed to withdraw? So then how is he guilty of the conspiracy but not larceny?
"The MPC allows withdrawal from a conspiracy after the performance of an overt act, but the defendant must thwart the performance of the planned crimes. Here, the defendant failed to do so, and therefore is guilty of conspiracy."


Because larceny wasn't an option?

mrpickles
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby mrpickles » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:59 pm

kalvano wrote:
mrpickles wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:According to the Model Penal Code, an accomplice can effectively withdraw and avoid criminal liability by doing one of three things:

1) Rendering his prior assistance to the perpetrator completely ineffective;
2) Providing the police with a timely warning of the perpetrator’s plan; or
3) Making a proper effort to prevent the perpetrator from committing the crime.

Still not really clear the guy did withdraw even under the MPC definition.


Agreed. My issue is that..the answer even says he failed to withdraw? So then how is he guilty of the conspiracy but not larceny?
"The MPC allows withdrawal from a conspiracy after the performance of an overt act, but the defendant must thwart the performance of the planned crimes. Here, the defendant failed to do so, and therefore is guilty of conspiracy."


Because larceny wasn't an option?

Sorry, I meant theft. The crime in the question.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:01 pm

"Theft" isn't an offense. It's either larceny, burglary, or robbery.

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Charles Barkley
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Charles Barkley » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:02 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
It depends on where you are. I plan on leaving the site in Philly. I left the site when I took the Michigan bar and I made it back in time. When I took the TX bar in Austin, I had lunch at Starbucks and made it back in plenty of time. If you know where you are and don't go to a sit down restaurant, you have plenty of time to go get lunch.


You have taken some bars in your day.




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