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HETPE3B
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby HETPE3B » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:52 pm

locusdelicti wrote:Gies for MBE contracts... he brought a stuffed caterpillar that turns into a stuffed butterfly.

Geis is a rockstar. Probably the best professor I've seen so far (Jeffries being a close second).

GertrudePerkins
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby GertrudePerkins » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:02 pm

I think I've found a pretty annoying error in one of the Con Law MBE questions that I wanted to share so that people can either explain how I'm wrong or be warned about this question if it trips them up also. It's question #1263. The setup is that Congress passes some law under both the 14th Amendment and the Commerce Clause that allows damage suits against the state. The essence of the question is to identify the best basis on which to defend the validity of the statute. Here's the "correct" answer:
When Congress exercises power vested in it by the Fourteenth Amendment and/or the commerce clause, Congress may enact appropriate remedial legislation expressly subjecting the states to private suits for damages in federal court.
I'm 99.5% sure the bolded portion is wrong. The whole point of Seminole Tribe v. Florida, 517 U.S. 44 (1996), is that Congress cannot abrogate state sovereign immunity under the Commerce Clause. (True, in the strictest sense Seminole Tribe was about the Indian Commerce Clause, but it's well established that its logic extends to regular ol' Commerce Clause.) Just to clarify, I'm not saying the abrogation of state sovereign immunity in this question was invalid -- it probably would be valid because the hypothetical law was also passed pursuant to the 14th Amendment. But the "correct" answer choice says that abrogation is allowed under either the 14th Amendment or the Commerce Clause, which it clearly isn't.

Anyone think I've missed something here? This brings me back to my concern about whether Themis writes these questions/answers themselves. Could the NCBE really make a mistake like this?

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Reinhardt
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Reinhardt » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:09 pm

That probably is the "best" answer. I've just come to accept that many correct answer choices aren't as flawless as what you'd find on the LSAT.

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Bustang
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bustang » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:32 pm

The more I read through this property outline, the more concerned I get about the MBE. I really really need to get my torts and conlaw grades up to the 70~% mark.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:41 pm

I honestly dont remember a single thing about property from 1L. This should be fun.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:19 pm

STOP BUFFERING THEMIS!

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Reinhardt
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Reinhardt » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:22 pm

These page-long real property MBE questions are really grinding me down. When they're mixed in with other question types they might be more bearable, I hope.

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forza
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby forza » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:15 pm

LOLat Yochum's wife in the wood chipper example

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Holly Golightly
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:43 am

Practice essays make me realize I have absolutely nothing memorized. And also makes me realize how stupid and pointless this type of memorization is for everything except the bar.

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CaliBum
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby CaliBum » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:35 am

Holly Golightly wrote:Practice essays make me realize I have absolutely nothing memorized. And also makes me realize how stupid and pointless this type of memorization is for everything except the bar.


Ditto. I also didn't notice how behind I am since that recent announcement about where we're supposed to be. I just started with Torts yesterday :\

09042014
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:13 am

CaliBum wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:Practice essays make me realize I have absolutely nothing memorized. And also makes me realize how stupid and pointless this type of memorization is for everything except the bar.


Ditto. I also didn't notice how behind I am since that recent announcement about where we're supposed to be. I just started with Torts yesterday :\


How far are we supped to be.

Checking in at 12 percent.

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HETPE3B
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby HETPE3B » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:16 am

As far as the essays, am I the only one who doesn't see a huge benefit in graded essays (at least for NY)? Reading model answers is more than sufficient.

The strategy is simple - answer the narrow question you're being asked (that does have a right answer) and in the process regurgitate as much information on the subject as you can.

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Themis Bar Review
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Themis Bar Review » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:46 am

GertrudePerkins wrote:I think I've found a pretty annoying error in one of the Con Law MBE questions that I wanted to share so that people can either explain how I'm wrong or be warned about this question if it trips them up also. It's question #1263. The setup is that Congress passes some law under both the 14th Amendment and the Commerce Clause that allows damage suits against the state. The essence of the question is to identify the best basis on which to defend the validity of the statute. Here's the "correct" answer:
When Congress exercises power vested in it by the Fourteenth Amendment and/or the commerce clause, Congress may enact appropriate remedial legislation expressly subjecting the states to private suits for damages in federal court.
I'm 99.5% sure the bolded portion is wrong. The whole point of Seminole Tribe v. Florida, 517 U.S. 44 (1996), is that Congress cannot abrogate state sovereign immunity under the Commerce Clause. (True, in the strictest sense Seminole Tribe was about the Indian Commerce Clause, but it's well established that its logic extends to regular ol' Commerce Clause.) Just to clarify, I'm not saying the abrogation of state sovereign immunity in this question was invalid -- it probably would be valid because the hypothetical law was also passed pursuant to the 14th Amendment. But the "correct" answer choice says that abrogation is allowed under either the 14th Amendment or the Commerce Clause, which it clearly isn't.

Anyone think I've missed something here? This brings me back to my concern about whether Themis writes these questions/answers themselves. Could the NCBE really make a mistake like this?


Hi, GertrudePerkins:

It seems as though you have a good grasp of this tricky topic...good job!

As another poster pointed out, this is an example of a question in which the bar examiners force you to choose the "least bad" answer.

The Supreme Court has held that Congress generally may not abrogate state immunity by exercising its powers under Article I, but none of the answer choices states the law more correctly than answer choice A. You are correct that Congress can’t abrogate the 11th Amendment based purely on the commerce clause alone; answer choice A would be even better if it stated "14th amendment and the commerce clause," rather than "and/or."

I hope this helps, but if you have any further questions, we're standing by!

Your Themis Editorial Team

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:06 am

HETPE3B wrote:As far as the essays, am I the only one who doesn't see a huge benefit in graded essays (at least for NY)? Reading model answers is more than sufficient.

The strategy is simple - answer the narrow question you're being asked (that does have a right answer) and in the process regurgitate as much information on the subject as you can.


I think the benefit of the graded essays is that you can see how your writing style and your knowledge will be viewed by the bar examiners. Reading a model answer will tell you what you missed in the law, but it's not going to help you write a better essay.

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Bustang
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bustang » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:13 am

I got a 17 on my first graded essay (corporations). Feels good as the average was 12, but I have no clue what I need to be shooting for on the actual examination. Also, I begin Real Property MBE questions today, so that feeling of happiness will leave soon

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:16 am

I do not recommend doing 4% in one day.

09042014
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:19 am

kalvano wrote:I do not recommend doing 4% in one day.


I'm aiming for 20 video hours (so 12 real hours) today.

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HETPE3B
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby HETPE3B » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:37 am

locusdelicti wrote:
HETPE3B wrote:As far as the essays, am I the only one who doesn't see a huge benefit in graded essays (at least for NY)? Reading model answers is more than sufficient.

The strategy is simple - answer the narrow question you're being asked (that does have a right answer) and in the process regurgitate as much information on the subject as you can.


I think the benefit of the graded essays is that you can see how your writing style and your knowledge will be viewed by the bar examiners. Reading a model answer will tell you what you missed in the law, but it's not going to help you write a better essay.

I'm pretty sure that style is what doesn't matter in these essays. As long as you articulate the doctrine and do a half-ass job of applying it to the facts, you will get all the points based on the grader's checklist. This is not a creative writing competition, where personalized feedback could actually be useful.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:43 am

HETPE3B wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
HETPE3B wrote:As far as the essays, am I the only one who doesn't see a huge benefit in graded essays (at least for NY)? Reading model answers is more than sufficient.

The strategy is simple - answer the narrow question you're being asked (that does have a right answer) and in the process regurgitate as much information on the subject as you can.


I think the benefit of the graded essays is that you can see how your writing style and your knowledge will be viewed by the bar examiners. Reading a model answer will tell you what you missed in the law, but it's not going to help you write a better essay.

I'm pretty sure that style is what doesn't matter in these essays. As long as you articulate the doctrine and do a half-ass job of applying it to the facts, you will get all the points based on the grader's checklist. This is not a creative writing competition, where personalized feedback could actually be useful.



I find it helpful just to make sure I am on the right track. Having to "dumb down" writing is not something I am good at, so it's helpful to see that oh, I wouldn't have failed that question.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:12 pm

HETPE3B wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:Gies for MBE contracts... he brought a stuffed caterpillar that turns into a stuffed butterfly.

Geis is a rockstar. Probably the best professor I've seen so far (Jeffries being a close second).


I do like him. He's very clear and puts everything in simple and memorable terms.

locusdelicti
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:14 pm

HETPE3B wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
HETPE3B wrote:As far as the essays, am I the only one who doesn't see a huge benefit in graded essays (at least for NY)? Reading model answers is more than sufficient.

The strategy is simple - answer the narrow question you're being asked (that does have a right answer) and in the process regurgitate as much information on the subject as you can.


I think the benefit of the graded essays is that you can see how your writing style and your knowledge will be viewed by the bar examiners. Reading a model answer will tell you what you missed in the law, but it's not going to help you write a better essay.

I'm pretty sure that style is what doesn't matter in these essays. As long as you articulate the doctrine and do a half-ass job of applying it to the facts, you will get all the points based on the grader's checklist. This is not a creative writing competition, where personalized feedback could actually be useful.


I'm not talking about creative writing. I'm talking about structure - application of IRAC or whatever. You can look at a sample essay and think, yeah, cool, but another person reading it will be better able to tell you whether you're doing it right or not. It's whether someone else thinks you followed the structure, not whether you think you did. And the structure matters - they're more likely to award points if they can follow your logic.

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Bustang
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bustang » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:40 pm

Silly property question:

Jurisdiction has a notice statute. O conveys to A in March. A records. In May, O conveys same property to B for $200,000. B records.

At this point, B should have constructive notice, so A wins, correct?

09042014
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:46 pm

Who the fuck is Hank Marducas.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:51 pm

Bustang wrote:Silly property question:

Jurisdiction has a notice statute. O conveys to A in March. A records. In May, O conveys same property to B for $200,000. B records.

At this point, B should have constructive notice, so A wins, correct?


Correct.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:51 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Who the fuck is Hank Marducas.


Peter Klaven's dad's best friend, of course, besides Robbie.




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