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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:15 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:Coming up with essay attack plan BAFFLES me. What are other people doing?



Outlining essays to help spot issues, esp. Family, Trusts, Estates & Conflicts.

I can almost bet that two of those will be on the bar.
Last edited by Bikeflip on Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JDCA2012
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby JDCA2012 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:15 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
Agoraphobia wrote:I'm so overwhelmed right now. I'm surrounded by notecards, and have dozens of mnemonics and memory tricks written on them, which would be great if I could even remember the memory tricks. I have no idea where to go from here. Memorize rule statements off my memory tricks? Which subjects? Do the Themis practice essays? I'm feeling OK on the MBE, will brush up on that every other day or so... but coming up with essay attack plan BAFFLES me. What are other people doing?


Hoping the universe smiles upon me.


I'm right there with you on both.
Regarding essay attack plan...I believe barbri actually gives them an essay attack plan for all of their topics. I wish I had that to at least see. Oh well.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:17 pm

Yeah. Probably a better use of time than trying to memorize shit at this point. Previously with the Themis grader I've been able to half ass approximate a rule and still get points if it wasn't quite right.

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Bronx Bum
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bronx Bum » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:25 pm

Themis for the MBE has been absolutely great. I love their portal and question bank, especially in interactive mode.

With that said, it's been pretty bad with the NY specific essays. My grader gives 90% when I know that on NY essays a 5 is where most people end up. I wish they graded more like barbri. On top of that, we really don't have a clue as to the direction the essays are going.

I ditched the Themis state essay plan on July 1st and went with another program that specializes with NY state essays and I feel confident. But if I stayed with themis, I'd be looking at 1000's of pages of stuff with really no direction. I mean, Fed Civ pro hardly ever shows up on the bar, yet there's really no guidance to tell us to focus our studies elsewhere...except for those essay lectures that really don't tell us much.

hlsperson1111
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby hlsperson1111 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:28 pm

Talar wrote:
Catleesi wrote:Per the crim pro outline: "The Sixth Amendment provides a constitutional right to counsel in any case in which actual or suspended incarceration is imposed. Scott v. Illinois, 440 U.S. 367 (1979)."

Stahp.

Please, just... stahp.


Read page 21 of Karlan's Crim Pro Outline, where it says: "Note: The right to counsel attaches in misdemeanor cases only if a sentence of incarceration is actually imposed."

Please stop.


A sentence of incarceration that is "actually imposed" is not the same as a sentence of "actual incarceration" that is imposed. Sixth Amendment right to counsel requires that there be a sentence of actual or suspended incarceration that is actually imposed by the judge, not merely a sentence that is allowed by the statute or sentencing guidelines. It doesn't apply if incarceration is merely allowed but not imposed, but it does apply to a sentence of suspended incarceration.
Last edited by hlsperson1111 on Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bronx Bum
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bronx Bum » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:29 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
Agoraphobia wrote:Coming up with essay attack plan BAFFLES me. What are other people doing?



Outlining essays to help spot issues, esp. Family, Trusts, Estates & Conflicts.

I can almost bet that two of those will be on the bar.


From 1995-Feb 2013, Wills has been on 100% of the bars. Family law something crazy like 96%.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:41 pm

Bronx Bum wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:
Agoraphobia wrote:Coming up with essay attack plan BAFFLES me. What are other people doing?



Outlining essays to help spot issues, esp. Family, Trusts, Estates & Conflicts.

I can almost bet that two of those will be on the bar.


From 1995-Feb 2013, Wills has been on 100% of the bars. Family law something crazy like 96%.


Yeah, those are the two I'm thinking of. Family and Conflicts or Civ Pro and Conflicts are grouped together. I'm less worried about Conflicts, because it's only an element of a question. So if I fuck up on the Conflicts questions, I can just bullshit it and only lose like 1/3 of a question. If I fuck on Family, there's a good chance I'll lose 80%

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:45 pm

So I'm looking at the 99 million essays that Themis has left for me. Maybe just pick and choose the ones that are more likely to be on the Bar (per Themis's list)? Arghh. I hate this. I felt OK about this exam yesterday.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:49 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:So I'm looking at the 99 million essays that Themis has left for me. Maybe just pick and choose the ones that are more likely to be on the Bar (per Themis's list)? Arghh. I hate this. I felt OK about this exam yesterday.



What I'm doing is outlining a bunch essays by topic, but saving a few essays for later this week. For example, if you have 10 Wills essays left, outline 6 of them back to back, spending 10-15 min on each one, and just write out the relevant rules to answer the question. That way, you can get a feel for what is tested, and you have some essays left to actually write.

You can get through over 10 essays in a day this way, and you can focus on your weakest topic areas at the same time.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:57 pm

This is great! Are you using the outlines or going blind?

releasethehounds
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:01 am

Haaa...I had this funny moment where I checked my directed study calendar and realized it's possible for me to get 100%. Then realized it only required about four 18 hour days.

agoraphobia wrote:This is great! Are you using the outlines or going blind?


seriously...don't use your outlines at this point. You have to know what it feels like to get an essay you have no fucking clue about and how you're going to handle that, even if you're just outlining answers and not writing the full thing. I mean, always hope that it's not going to happen on the actual bar, but you're probably going to panic a lot less if you can practice hauling yourself through the question by trying to figure out some reasonable rules of law and going on those. might also boost your confidence because you'll probably find you're able to do more than you think

May just be my experience, but if I have my outlines out "just in case I can't remember a rule", I'm far more likely to give up early on the essay or go look it up instead of trying to force myself to just slog through the question as best I can. You'll get the answer anyways when you read the model answer, so it doesn't really help at this point to use the outline.

Again, may just be me, but I'm a big proponent of 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst'


unless i completely misread what you were asking in that question (which wasn't even to me, i apologize for butting in), in which case I also apologize for tirading about nothing.
Last edited by releasethehounds on Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:03 am

Agoraphobia wrote:This is great! Are you using the outlines or going blind?


For the first essay, I'll start out by as much as I can without looking at the outline. Then, I use the outline to finish it out. Usually it's just a rule or two I forgot, but I bullshit a ton on the first outline. If I miss an issue with the outline, odds are I never would have seen it. I learn best if I have to update my outline, so any rule that isn't in my outline gets added. Even if I never read that outline again-I printed mine out, and the printed ones are out of date-the fact I typed the rule out helps cement the rule in my head.

However, I also agree with releasethehounds in that you really need try to not use the outline, if only to get used to the "ohshitohshitohshit" feeling, especially by essay 6. So maybe use the outline for essay 1, just to build up some confidence that you have at least seen the rule, but scrap it by essay 2 or 3.

hlsperson1111
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby hlsperson1111 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:17 am

FWIW, I do almost all the practice essays with outlines. I find that the helpful part of writing essays is practicing actually writing out an analysis and going through all the issues, and I find that writing all that out (even if I have to refer to an outline sometimes) actually causes me to absorb more of the material than writing without one (I tried that a few times and found it wasn't helpful). I understand the argument for practicing for the real test by doing essays under test-like conditions, but I find it more useful to practice writing good essays by writing good essays under non-test-like conditions.

That said, I saved the essay exam for last and plan to do it without outlines, just to make sure I get one run-through without them.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:19 am

hlsperson1111 wrote:FWIW, I do almost all the practice essays with outlines. I find that the helpful part of writing essays is practicing actually writing out an analysis and going through all the issues, and I find that writing all that out (even if I have to refer to an outline sometimes) actually causes me to absorb more of the material than writing without one (I tried that a few times and found it wasn't helpful). I understand the argument for practicing for the real test by doing essays under test-like conditions, but I find it more useful to practice writing good essays by writing good essays under non-test-like conditions.



Hey, so long as you don't have to retake, do whatever works for ya. If you have to punch a small raccoon in the dick to pass, punch that raccoon as hard as you can. (No. Seriously. Don't, but you get the idea).

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:25 am

Do other states not tell you what topics the essays will cover?

thebull
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby thebull » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:48 am

kalvano wrote:Do other states not tell you what topics the essays will cover?


NY tells you a long list of what topics are possible and each essay question has 2 or 3 topics involved so no you don't really know exactly what topics you'll be tested on.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:52 am

thebull wrote:
kalvano wrote:Do other states not tell you what topics the essays will cover?


NY tells you a long list of what topics are possible and each essay question has 2 or 3 topics involved so no you don't really know exactly what topics you'll be tested on.


That blows. At least Texas tells us the general topics.

bahamallamamama
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby bahamallamamama » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:58 am

A lawyer must communicate all bona fide settlement offers to the client, and the client makes the final decision on the offer.

Can this happen beforehand? Can the client say "settle for anything over x" or "don't settle for anything under y," or does the lawyer have to confirm with the client?

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:03 am

kalvano wrote:Do other states not tell you what topics the essays will cover?



Sadly, for Colorado, the frequency chart was not very helpful. Also, Colorado's a UBE state, so I think the UBE board chooses the questions.

With that said, I'm expecting at least 2 of the following: Civ Pro, Family, or Trusts/Wills.
Last edited by Bikeflip on Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:05 am

bahamallamamama wrote:A lawyer must communicate all bona fide settlement offers to the client, and the client makes the final decision on the offer.

Can this happen beforehand? Can the client say "settle for anything over x" or "don't settle for anything under y," or does the lawyer have to confirm with the client?


Is this a PR question? The answer is yes, a client can grant the attorney approval beforehand to go up to a certain amount.

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Reinhardt
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Reinhardt » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:18 am

Think Themis is trolling us. Took NCBE MBE #3 and it was really easy. Granted, I recognized a lot of questions, but a lot of them were ones I got right the first time I saw em. Score was roughly in line with the milestone exams, even heavily penalizing myself for having seen the questions before (multiplied my number wrong by 1.66).

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Charles Barkley
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Charles Barkley » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:33 am

I'm stopping for the night on that note. Finished MBE Set 8 with a 78%, including 80% on contracts (8/10), which is one of my worst subjects.

releasethehounds
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:54 am

Bikeflip wrote:
kalvano wrote:Do other states not tell you what topics the essays will cover?



Sadly, for Colorado, the frequency chart was not very helpful. Also, Colorado's a UBE state, so I think the UBE board chooses the questions.

With that said, I'm expecting at least 2 of the following: Civ Pro, Family, or Trusts/Wills.


AZ's a UBE state too. I think even in UBE the state may still decide which of the 9 it wants to administer but hell if I really know on that one. Didn't find AZ's frequency chart all that helpful either. I feel like of the subjects half of them were tested 50-60% of the time which really helps me prediction-wise not at all.

Past ten exams break down like...

100% - civ pro
80% - family law
70% - commercial paper, secured transactions (yuck), real property, trusts
60% - wills, con law, corporations, contracts
50% - conflict of laws, evidence, partnerships, torts
40% - crim law
30% - agency
20% - crim pro

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CaliBum
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby CaliBum » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:12 am

Bikeflip wrote:
Agoraphobia wrote:This is great! Are you using the outlines or going blind?


For the first essay, I'll start out by as much as I can without looking at the outline.

However, I also agree with releasethehounds in that you really need try to not use the outline, if only to get used to the "ohshitohshitohshit" feeling, especially by essay 6. So maybe use the outline for essay 1, just to build up some confidence that you have at least seen the rule, but scrap it by essay 2 or 3.


Man, I'm so happy I checked back before it became too late. I too have been having an awful time trying to recall the rules, yet my MBE scores have been rising steadily. I'm going to switch to outlining now and see how it goes.

I swear, feeling overwhelmed every other day has caused me to completely forget how to study, and these eureka moments let me to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Plus, I will definitely get past 80% complete now! lol :idea:

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:20 am

thebull wrote:
kalvano wrote:Do other states not tell you what topics the essays will cover?


NY tells you a long list of what topics are possible and each essay question has 2 or 3 topics involved so no you don't really know exactly what topics you'll be tested on.


Michigan was like that, too. It was a fun surprise! Commercial Paper? You never know!




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