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Charles Barkley
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Charles Barkley » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:25 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I think consensus is that after Mixed 5, it's all just trying to hone your weak points, so don't look at its representative of your test day performance.

I really hope this is true.

On the milestone exams, my scores were about 75%. Lately they're down to 50%-60%.

releasethehounds
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:32 pm

Charles Barkley wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I think consensus is that after Mixed 5, it's all just trying to hone your weak points, so don't look at its representative of your test day performance.

I really hope this is true.

On the milestone exams, my scores were about 75%. Lately they're down to 50%-60%.


No it's true. As they hammer at you with minutia, you're rarely going to see 'the easy questions' (which are still there on test day) and instead they're just throwing bullshit at you. The milestones are there so you can really see how you're doing overall--evidenced by the fact that that test was set in stone at the beginning of the program as they gave it to you in paper form, and not altered to what you're better/worse at-- so I'd go with the milestones being more representative of your expected test day performance.

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Charles Barkley
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Charles Barkley » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:35 pm

That was a much needed confidence boost, so thanks. I'm up to MBE Practice Set 9, but I think pretty soon I'm just going to redo the problems I've already done previously, while covering the correct answers. Those questions not only appear to be more representative on what to expect on test day, but would also give me a chance to see if I've learned from my mistakes.

Kretzy
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Kretzy » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:53 pm

In MBE Set 9 today, 26 of the 50 questions were Property or Ks, my two worst subjects. They're definitely honing in on the weaknesses, or they're terrible at balancing questions...

Charles Barkley wrote:That was a much needed confidence boost, so thanks. I'm up to MBE Practice Set 9, but I think pretty soon I'm just going to redo the problems I've already done previously, while covering the correct answers. Those questions not only appear to be more representative on what to expect on test day, but would also give me a chance to see if I've learned from my mistakes.

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:02 pm

Anybody else out there shooting for 100%?

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HETPE3B
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby HETPE3B » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:16 pm

Dumb question. Sixth Amendment right to counsel applies when incarceration is actually imposed. So how do you know what is actually imposed when the person gets charged when you need to figure out whether that person gets a lawyer??

Talar
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Talar » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:19 pm

What's the consensus on NCBEX's MBE prep stuff? Is it worth the $$$?
Last edited by Talar on Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:23 pm

Catleesi wrote:Anybody else out there shooting for 100%?



Nope. I'll probably end up doing 85-90%, depending on how you want to classify outlined essays.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:37 pm

HETPE3B wrote:Dumb question. Sixth Amendment right to counsel applies when incarceration is actually imposed. So how do you know what is actually imposed when the person gets charged when you need to figure out whether that person gets a lawyer??


Sixth Amendment applies as soon as charges are filed. Anything after the filing of charges requires counsel.

For misdemeanors, I believe it's if the possible sentence is greater than 6 months.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:46 pm

kalvano wrote:
HETPE3B wrote:Dumb question. Sixth Amendment right to counsel applies when incarceration is actually imposed. So how do you know what is actually imposed when the person gets charged when you need to figure out whether that person gets a lawyer??


Sixth Amendment applies as soon as charges are filed. Anything after the filing of charges requires counsel.

For misdemeanors, I believe it's if the possible sentence is greater than 6 months.


See, I thought it was 6 mo+ for misdemeanors too, but then a Themis question made me think it was anytime jail time could be imposed.

Talar
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Talar » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:50 pm

I think you're not entirely correct, Kalvano. For felonies, the 6th amendemnt applies only applies where jail time or suspended jail time is imposed. For misdemeanors, on the other hand, actual prison time needs to be imposed.

I think you guys are confusing the right to a jury trial with when sixth amendment right to counsel attaches, which is different. You get the right to a jury trial when someone is facing a six month sentence.

Edited a few times, sorry.
Last edited by Talar on Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:53 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
kalvano wrote:
HETPE3B wrote:Dumb question. Sixth Amendment right to counsel applies when incarceration is actually imposed. So how do you know what is actually imposed when the person gets charged when you need to figure out whether that person gets a lawyer??


Sixth Amendment applies as soon as charges are filed. Anything after the filing of charges requires counsel.

For misdemeanors, I believe it's if the possible sentence is greater than 6 months.


See, I thought it was 6 mo+ for misdemeanors too, but then a Themis question made me think it was anytime jail time could be imposed.



Fuck me, it's any crime for which jail time can be imposed.

09042014
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:57 pm

Isn't it either:

When 6 months could be imposed under the statute, or when if it actually is impossed.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:04 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Isn't it either:

When 6 months could be imposed under the statute, or when if it actually is impossed.


Right to counsel is for any jail time that could be imposed or suspended. Right to jury is any felony or misdemeanor with over 6 months jail time possible.

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:14 pm

Per the crim pro outline: "The Sixth Amendment provides a constitutional right to counsel in any case in which actual or suspended incarceration is imposed. Scott v. Illinois, 440 U.S. 367 (1979)."

Stahp.

Please, just... stahp.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:23 pm

The answer is "C."

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:25 pm

Obviously his heirs can assert the right if he were to die. Jesus.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:28 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
Catleesi wrote:Anybody else out there shooting for 100%?



Nope. I'll probably end up doing 85-90%, depending on how you want to classify outlined essays.


Me either. I just hit 77% today and will likely end up somewhere around 85%. I've also just started to outline essays instead of writing them out completely, so I'll probably stick to that this week up until the exam just to hone spotting issues.

Talar
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Talar » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:32 pm

Catleesi wrote:Per the crim pro outline: "The Sixth Amendment provides a constitutional right to counsel in any case in which actual or suspended incarceration is imposed. Scott v. Illinois, 440 U.S. 367 (1979)."

Stahp.

Please, just... stahp.


Read page 21 of Karlan's Crim Pro Outline, where it says: "Note: The right to counsel attaches in misdemeanor cases only if a sentence of incarceration is actually imposed."

Please stop.

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HETPE3B
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby HETPE3B » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:38 pm

"Quick! incarceration for this misdemeanor was actually imposed!"

Image

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:52 pm

Right, that's why bar exams are fucking stupid. In real life, they just give a defendant an attorney unless it was a speeding ticket because why take the risk?

The only thing I've found even remotely real-life are the Texas short answer questions. Fuck everything else.

09042014
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:54 pm

So do we even know what the rule is?

Actual imposition?

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:57 pm

I'm so overwhelmed right now. I'm surrounded by notecards, and have dozens of mnemonics and memory tricks written on them, which would be great if I could even remember the memory tricks. I have no idea where to go from here. Memorize rule statements off my memory tricks? Which subjects? Do the Themis practice essays? I'm feeling OK on the MBE, will brush up on that every other day or so... but coming up with essay attack plan BAFFLES me. What are other people doing?

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:08 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:I'm so overwhelmed right now. I'm surrounded by notecards, and have dozens of mnemonics and memory tricks written on them, which would be great if I could even remember the memory tricks. I have no idea where to go from here. Memorize rule statements off my memory tricks? Which subjects? Do the Themis practice essays? I'm feeling OK on the MBE, will brush up on that every other day or so... but coming up with essay attack plan BAFFLES me. What are other people doing?


Hoping the universe smiles upon me.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:14 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
Agoraphobia wrote:I'm so overwhelmed right now. I'm surrounded by notecards, and have dozens of mnemonics and memory tricks written on them, which would be great if I could even remember the memory tricks. I have no idea where to go from here. Memorize rule statements off my memory tricks? Which subjects? Do the Themis practice essays? I'm feeling OK on the MBE, will brush up on that every other day or so... but coming up with essay attack plan BAFFLES me. What are other people doing?


Hoping the universe smiles upon me.


Amen. I just got completely destroyed on a couple Secured Trans essays today...didn't even know where to start. I'm just hoping if it shows up it's just prioritizing creditors. I can do that.




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